Quran vs the bible

[bodhitharta]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 22 2010,17:35)

Quote (theodorej @ June 21 2010,19:32) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 21 2010,22:30) Quote (theodorej @ June 21 2010,16:09) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 21 2010,16:29) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 20 2010,02:03) Quote (theodorej @ June 20 2010,00:31) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 09 2010,13:03) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 09 2010,07:29) Observation: 5) Bible whether corrupted or not, cannot validate the Quran. witch means that the Quran needs to validate itself. The bible does validate the Quran and The Quran validates the Bible. Think about it, if we were in front of a Jew and the Jew said Christ is a fairy tale there was no one named Jesus well if it is simply you and him his case would be just as strong as your but when you insert the Muslim and he says yes, I know me and the Christian might not agree on everything we certainly agree that Jesus existed, was born of a Virgin and the Children of Israel plotted to kill him even though he was the Christ they were waiting for. This my friend is validation especially since you know that the Christian and the Muslim is not plotting together to fool the Jew they are telling two independent testimonies of Chrsit Jesus Greetings B…. The validation that stands and serves as a basis is Abraham….The god of Abraham speaks to Islam through Ishmael,and christianity as well as judaism through Jacob( or Israel)…His promises speak of both being great nations with numbers as the grains of sand….Judah was given the septre ( Law) and has been a keeper of same through history….Israel was dispersed and removed from Gods sight for Idoletry with a promise that upon repentance mercy will be shown…The commonality between the Quran and The Bible start with the obedience of Abram to the eternal….The OT has not changed since its introduction….to keep the law was the commission of Judah….The NT is nothing more than a reassertion with practicle application of the original law….With the exception of the deification of Jesus the Quran restates much of the abramic covenant… Wow, Why is that so easy for you to understand and yet baffles so many here. Great and accurate post Good post, I agree with the deifcation of Jesus *point you made*.  The Quran does restate many storys and the arambic covenant, but there are alot of things that the Quran has that dont connect to the bible. common foundation, knowing that the Quran was written more than a centery after the bible, of course its going to restate many things that the bible has. Greetings Forgiven……Point well made….I struggle with the origin of the Quran with respect to its inspirational claims…Although it does restate biblical text and must I say in most cases accurately….The deminishing of the Godhead,which consists of the Father and the Son in conjunction with the spirit or power of God is where it loses me….The prophet Mohamed claims visions and direct communication with the eternal and Iam not here to question nor would I dispute these claims….The proof is in the practice and from what I can see Gods government is theocratic,it is a living ,loving way of life that involves submission to HIS law,which is plainly laid out in the ten commandments and the Torah….Under Gods law there is no denial of liberties to either men or women…. Hi Theo, I think you need to take some time and see the points i made against the Quarn. First of all, just becuase it sounds the same, doesnt mean it is. thats a dangerous road to take.  Think about it, just because its 80 percent the same of the stories trust me when there are details that make them totally different. Bod can second this on me, and he has even posted the scripture from the Quran stating different situations within the Quran. in the end, the Bible has more stories than the Quran does.  For example it does not have the story about Nebercanzor (i know i spelled it wrong) who is going to burn the 4 boys, but they didnt die, they didnt burn at all.   anyways it doesnt restate word its more like a counterfeit. Muhammed cliams he received his messsage from the angel Gabriel, and not from I AM, The submission of law does not save anyone. The law does not make you perfect, it shows you how IMPERFECT one is.   Hebrews 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God. Love is above all those things, according to 1John 4 that God is love, and to be of God, one must love.  nothing else matters. Colossians 3:14And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness. The first law is spiritual, and all the laws after were against our own sinful nature. but through the first law, is the greatest commandemnt of them all. even the phrarise understood this in Mark. Mark 12:28And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?   29And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:   30And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.   31And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.   32And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:   33And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.   34And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far fro m the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question. We are nothing without love, 1Co13 Submit all you want, But first love He who has loved Us First, 1John4 Much love, Greetings Forgiven…..The Bible is the inspired word of God and it stands as education for the unknown and prophesy of things to come….Any connection between the teachings of the Quran and the Bible are routed in antiquity and it is my feeling that given the times we live in the Quran serves as a proof of things to come as per Biblical prophesy….Let us reflect on Gen: when we are told that the decendants of Ishmael will be at the throats of his brothers….Forgive the loose correlation Iam not a chapter and verse reciter… If I were in front of a Jew who said that Jesus was a fairy tale I would point to Jesus'geneology and emphasize that some day we will all stand before the quintessential Jew… The bible is inspired by God, The Quran is just the counterfeited of it. If i draw a vampire right now, and you do as well I ASSURE YOU that our vampire drawings will be different. they will have common foundation though, fangs, blood sucking, dead. and what not, but mine might be black, and yours might be dracula. is it the same vampire?  NO. The God of the Quran is not the same as the God of the bible. By Quran claiming to for correct interpretation from allah is based of a educated muslim to read from both books is a fallacy. its an intellectual psychological trap. dont be fooled.

Can you show me any similarities between God of the Torah and God in the NT?

Was these different gods?

[theodorej]

Quote (bodhitharta @ June 23 2010,03:05)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 22 2010,17:35) Quote (theodorej @ June 21 2010,19:32) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 21 2010,22:30) Quote (theodorej @ June 21 2010,16:09) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 21 2010,16:29) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 20 2010,02:03) Quote (theodorej @ June 20 2010,00:31) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 09 2010,13:03) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 09 2010,07:29) Observation: 5) Bible whether corrupted or not, cannot validate the Quran. witch means that the Quran needs to validate itself. The bible does validate the Quran and The Quran validates the Bible. Think about it, if we were in front of a Jew and the Jew said Christ is a fairy tale there was no one named Jesus well if it is simply you and him his case would be just as strong as your but when you insert the Muslim and he says yes, I know me and the Christian might not agree on everything we certainly agree that Jesus existed, was born of a Virgin and the Children of Israel plotted to kill him even though he was the Christ they were waiting for. This my friend is validation especially since you know that the Christian and the Muslim is not plotting together to fool the Jew they are telling two independent testimonies of Chrsit Jesus Greetings B…. The validation that stands and serves as a basis is Abraham….The god of Abraham speaks to Islam through Ishmael,and christianity as well as judaism through Jacob( or Israel)…His promises speak of both being great nations with numbers as the grains of sand….Judah was given the septre ( Law) and has been a keeper of same through history….Israel was dispersed and removed from Gods sight for Idoletry with a promise that upon repentance mercy will be shown…The commonality between the Quran and The Bible start with the obedience of Abram to the eternal….The OT has not changed since its introduction….to keep the law was the commission of Judah….The NT is nothing more than a reassertion with practicle application of the original law….With the exception of the deification of Jesus the Quran restates much of the abramic covenant… Wow, Why is that so easy for you to understand and yet baffles so many here. Great and accurate post Good post, I agree with the deifcation of Jesus *point you made*.  The Quran does restate many storys and the arambic covenant, but there are alot of things that the Quran has that dont connect to the bible. common foundation, knowing that the Quran was written more than a centery after the bible, of course its going to restate many things that the bible has. Greetings Forgiven……Point well made….I struggle with the origin of the Quran with respect to its inspirational claims…Although it does restate biblical text and must I say in most cases accurately….The deminishing of the Godhead,which consists of the Father and the Son in conjunction with the spirit or power of God is where it loses me….The prophet Mohamed claims visions and direct communication with the eternal and Iam not here to question nor would I dispute these claims….The proof is in the practice and from what I can see Gods government is theocratic,it is a living ,loving way of life that involves submission to HIS law,which is plainly laid out in the ten commandments and the Torah….Under Gods law there is no denial of liberties to either men or women…. Hi Theo, I think you need to take some time and see the points i made against the Quarn. First of all, just becuase it sounds the same, doesnt mean it is. thats a dangerous road to take.  Think about it, just because its 80 percent the same of the stories trust me when there are details that make them totally different. Bod can second this on me, and he has even posted the scripture from the Quran stating different situations within the Quran. in the end, the Bible has more stories than the Quran does.  For example it does not have the story about Nebercanzor (i know i spelled it wrong) who is going to burn the 4 boys, but they didnt die, they didnt burn at all.   anyways it doesnt restate word its more like a counterfeit. Muhammed cliams he received his messsage from the angel Gabriel, and not from I AM, The submission of law does not save anyone. The law does not make you perfect, it shows you how IMPERFECT one is.   Hebrews 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God. Love is above all those things, according to 1John 4 that God is love, and to be of God, one must love.  nothing else matters. Colossians 3:14And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness. The first law is spiritual, and all the laws after were against our own sinful nature. but through the first law, is the greatest commandemnt of them all. even the phrarise understood this in Mark. Mark 12:28And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?   29And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:   30And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.   31And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.   32And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:   33And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with al l the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.   34And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question. We are nothing without love, 1Co13 Submit all you want, But first love He who has loved Us First, 1John4 Much love, Greetings Forgiven…..The Bible is the inspired word of God and it stands as education for the unknown and prophesy of things to come….Any connection between the teachings of the Quran and the Bible are routed in antiquity and it is my feeling that given the times we live in the Quran serves as a proof of things to come as per Biblical prophesy….Let us reflect on Gen: when we are told that the decendants of Ishmael will be at the throats of his brothers….Forgive the loose correlation Iam not a chapter and verse reciter… If I were in front of a Jew who said that Jesus was a fairy tale I would point to Jesus'geneology and emphasize that some day we will all stand before the quintessential Jew… The bible is inspired by God, The Quran is just the counterfeited of it. If i draw a vampire right now, and you do as well I ASSURE YOU that our vampire drawings will be different. they will have common foundation though, fangs, blood sucking, dead. and what not, but mine might be black, and yours might be dracula. is it the same vampire?  NO. The God of the Quran is not the same as the God of the bible. By Quran claiming to for correct interpretation from allah is based of a educated muslim to read from both books is a fallacy. its an intellectual psychological trap. dont be fooled. Can you show me any similarities between God of the Torah and God in the NT? Was these different gods?

Greetings BD….The God of the Torah is the law giver….the god of the NT is the same law giver…. Jesus said if you have seen me you have seen the father(The Eternal among other names).In addition Jesus states he did not come to change the law but to full fill it ( ISA:53 )…The messiah was promised to the Jews in torah ….he was in their very presense and they choose to kill him….

[theodorej]

Greetings Forgiven…..I do not profess to be an authority on the Koran or the Bible for that matter….I try to recognize the things of God in the course of my study….my age has seasoned me with patients and with my patients Iam able to discern…I can't help but notice the confusion that besets so called christianity,notably so in the many different interpretations of the Bible as well as the many different churches….God is not an author of confusion however he does see fit to confound and confuse the professing wise….The Bible is Gods hand book on how to live a meaningfull existance if you follow his instruction….This is not a contest between the Bibles' credability verses the Koran,the message from the Koran is to submitt to Gods instructions and life will have meaning….Given that man has edited and virtually rewrote both books speaks to the differences you bring to light….Let us remember God is not trying to save this world as we know it….If he was, he would not have to try let alone compete….Remember he is God the creator of all that is and nothing is impossible or possible without him…Iam a God fearing follower of christ who falls short more times than I care to recall..

[Ed J]

Quote (Ed J @ June 22 2010,14:59)

Quote (bodhitharta @ June 22 2010,14:39) Quote (Ed J @ June 22 2010,14:01) Quote (Ed J @ June 21 2010,07:55) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 21 2010,03:13) Quote (Ed J @ June 20 2010,15:30) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 20 2010,15:13) Quote (Ed J @ June 20 2010,10:05) Hi BD, It is antichrist to preach different Jesus and that's what the 'book of fraud' does! . Is your book the book of fraud? You definitely preach another Jesus one who was linked with Lucifer Hi BD, Is that why you requested it; to try to use the information against me? The quran (with 114 suras) is the 'book of fraud'=114! Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org You and your lovely numbers keep the faith= 114 Importance=114 History=114 Its all good=114 The grace of God=114 .                      A evil prince=114 John 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me. . .                      Devil's book=114 . Moses book=114 really ED? so desperate Act of God book= 114 Ed, please leave these numbers alone you think they mean something but when I ask you what does 114 mean or 117 mean or any number you clam up because you have no idea what anything means Hi BD,                           'new death' allah=114 Rev.20:14 And death and hell were cast into the 'lake of fire'=88. (quran + allah = 88) This is the second death. (Revelation 2:11) Acts 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men. 2Cor.3:6-11 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious. Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17) יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm! Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

.
                   Evil Curse=114

Prov:3:33: The curse of the LORD is in the house of the wicked:  
                  but he blesseth the habitation of the just.

.

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (theodorej @ June 23 2010,00:10)

Greetings Forgiven…..I do not profess to be an authority on the Koran or the Bible for that matter….I try to recognize the things of God in the course of my study….my age has seasoned me with patients and with my patients Iam able to discern…I can't help but notice the confusion that besets so called christianity,notably so in the many different interpretations of the Bible as well as the many different churches….God is not an author of confusion however he does see fit to confound and confuse the professing wise….The Bible is Gods hand book on how to live a meaningfull existance if you follow his instruction….This is not a contest between the Bibles' credability verses the Koran,the message from the Koran is to submitt to Gods instructions and life will have meaning….Given that man has edited and virtually rewrote both books speaks to the differences you bring to light….Let us remember God is not trying to save this world as we know it….If he was, he would not have to try let alone compete….Remember he is God the creator of all that is and nothing is impossible or possible without him…Iam a God fearing follower of christ who falls short more times than I care to recall..

Hi Theo,

Im not asking you to be an authority figure.
I understand your position perfectly because we are in the same place.

like i said earliar in this thread, that there is no convincing bod, not myself. The only way for both of us to agree is through revelation of God's truth, and for both of us to deny ourselves.

Man created confusion.
we need to idenitify what is confused.

The Korans message is more than what you think it says.
God is the only one who brings light.

We share the same vision,

but our differense is only on our perception of the bible and the Quran.
Is Testimony just a story? Isnt the gospel of Christ that we are suppose to preach comes from our personal testimony of him.

therefore a Testimony isnt just a story, its through that testimony God saves others.

The bible has holy scripture that is inspired by God, that has not only they way of living but the testimony of the love of God.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 23 2010,07:50)

Quote (theodorej @ June 23 2010,00:10) Greetings Forgiven…..I do not profess to be an authority on the Koran or the Bible for that matter….I try to recognize the things of God in the course of my study….my age has seasoned me with patients and with my patients Iam able to discern…I can't help but notice the confusion that besets so called christianity,notably so in the many different interpretations of the Bible as well as the many different churches….God is not an author of confusion however he does see fit to confound and confuse the professing wise….The Bible is Gods hand book on how to live a meaningfull existance if you follow his instruction….This is not a contest between the Bibles' credability verses the Koran,the message from the Koran is to submitt to Gods instructions and life will have meaning….Given that man has edited and virtually rewrote both books speaks to the differences you bring to light….Let us remember God is not trying to save this world as we know it….If he was, he would not have to try let alone compete….Remember he is God the creator of all that is and nothing is impossible or possible without him…Iam a God fearing follower of christ who falls short more times than I care to recall.. Hi Theo, Im not asking you to be an authority figure. I understand your position perfectly because we are in the same place. like i said earliar in this thread, that there is no convincing bod, not myself.  The only way for both of us to agree is through revelation of God's truth, and for both of us to deny ourselves. Man created confusion. we need to idenitify what is confused. The Korans message is more than what you think it says. God is the only one who brings light. We share the same vision, but our differense is only on our perception of the bible and the Quran. Is Testimony just a story? Isnt the gospel of Christ that we are suppose to preach comes from our personal testimony of him. therefore a Testimony isnt just a story, its through that testimony God saves others. The bible has holy scripture that is inspired by God, that has not only they way of living but the testimony of the love of God.

That is exactly what the Quran is:

Quote

not only they way of living but the testimony of the love of God

But mankind is ever ungrateful.

Why do you find it necessary to negate one thing to justify another?

You say God came to this one and that one and then without any knowledge you say who God didn't come to or couldn't have went to?

Is God really a respector of persons?

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (bodhitharta @ June 23 2010,02:41)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 23 2010,07:50) Quote (theodorej @ June 23 2010,00:10) Greetings Forgiven…..I do not profess to be an authority on the Koran or the Bible for that matter….I try to recognize the things of God in the course of my study….my age has seasoned me with patients and with my patients Iam able to discern…I can't help but notice the confusion that besets so called christianity,notably so in the many different interpretations of the Bible as well as the many different churches….God is not an author of confusion however he does see fit to confound and confuse the professing wise….The Bible is Gods hand book on how to live a meaningfull existance if you follow his instruction….This is not a contest between the Bibles' credability verses the Koran,the message from the Koran is to submitt to Gods instructions and life will have meaning….Given that man has edited and virtually rewrote both books speaks to the differences you bring to light….Let us remember God is not trying to save this world as we know it….If he was, he would not have to try let alone compete….Remember he is God the creator of all that is and nothing is impossible or possible without him…Iam a God fearing follower of christ who falls short more times than I care to recall.. Hi Theo, Im not asking you to be an authority figure. I understand your position perfectly because we are in the same place. like i said earliar in this thread, that there is no convincing bod, not myself.  The only way for both of us to agree is through revelation of God's truth, and for both of us to deny ourselves. Man created confusion. we need to idenitify what is confused. The Korans message is more than what you think it says. God is the only one who brings light. We share the same vision, but our differense is only on our perception of the bible and the Quran. Is Testimony just a story? Isnt the gospel of Christ that we are suppose to preach comes from our personal testimony of him. therefore a Testimony isnt just a story, its through that testimony God saves others. The bible has holy scripture that is inspired by God, that has not only they way of living but the testimony of the love of God. That is exactly what the Quran is: Quote not only they way of living but the testimony of the love of God But mankind is ever ungrateful. Why do you find it necessary to negate one thing to justify another? You say God came to this one and that one and then without any knowledge you say who God didn't come to or couldn't have went to? Is God really a respector of persons?

No what your stating is that the bible is corrupted,
I find that has a fallacy to Quran.

I have argued the same point again and again.

Its a contradiction.

The Quran negates the bible yet hold on to it, which is a compelete contradiction. The Qurans history and manner of being written his very questionable.
If anything It has nothing to do with Muhammeds testimony with God.
ITs one man trying to re-write a book the way he thinks.

Now if you are going to ask me what i believe,
I believe that God clearly stated that his word will be in our hearts and minds. and as we get closer to him, we will know his word. He wants the word to be written in our hearts not by memorization, but by living and breathing it forever.

Thats what i believe.

[Ed J]

Quote (Ed J @ June 23 2010,07:39)

Quote (Ed J @ June 22 2010,14:59) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 22 2010,14:39) Quote (Ed J @ June 22 2010,14:01) Quote (Ed J @ June 21 2010,07:55) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 21 2010,03:13) Quote (Ed J @ June 20 2010,15:30) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 20 2010,15:13) Quote (Ed J @ June 20 2010,10:05) Hi BD, It is antichrist to preach different Jesus and that's what the 'book of fraud' does! . Is your book the book of fraud? You definitely preach another Jesus one who was linked with Lucifer Hi BD, Is that why you requested it; to try to use the information against me? The quran (with 114 suras) is the 'book of fraud'=114! Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org You and your lovely numbers keep the faith= 114 Importance=114 History=114 Its all good=114 The grace of God=114 .                      A evil prince=114 John 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me. . .                      Devil's book=114 . Moses book=114 really ED? so desperate Act of God book= 114 Ed, please leave these numbers alone you think they mean something but when I ask you what does 114 mean or 117 mean or any number you clam up because you have no idea what anything means Hi BD,                           'new death' allah=114 Rev.20:14 And death and hell were cast into the 'lake of fire'=88. (quran + allah = 88) This is the second death. (Revelation 2:11) Acts 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men. 2Cor.3:6-11 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious. Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17) יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm! Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org .                    Evil Curse=114 Prov:3:33: The curse of the LORD is in the house of the wicked:                     but he blesseth the habitation of the just. .

.
                    Lucifer liar = 114 (2Cor.11:14)
                     quran false = 114 (Gal.1:8)
.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Ed J @ June 23 2010,11:54)

Quote (Ed J @ June 23 2010,07:39) Quote (Ed J @ June 22 2010,14:59) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 22 2010,14:39) Quote (Ed J @ June 22 2010,14:01) Quote (Ed J @ June 21 2010,07:55) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 21 2010,03:13) Quote (Ed J @ June 20 2010,15:30) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 20 2010,15:13) Quote (Ed J @ June 20 2010,10:05) Hi BD, It is antichrist to preach different Jesus and that's what the 'book of fraud' does! . Is your book the book of fraud? You definitely preach another Jesus one who was linked with Lucifer Hi BD, Is that why you requested it; to try to use the information against me? The quran (with 114 suras) is the 'book of fraud'=114! Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org You and your lovely numbers keep the faith= 114 Importance=114 History=114 Its all good=114 The grace of God=114 .                      A evil prince=114 John 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me. . .                      Devil's book=114 . Moses book=114 really ED? so desperate Act of God book= 114 Ed, please leave these numbers alone you think they mean something but when I ask you what does 114 mean or 117 mean or any number you clam up because you have no idea what anything means Hi BD,                           'new death' allah=114 Rev.20:14 And death and hell were cast into the 'lake of fire'=88. (quran + allah = 88) This is the second death. (Revelation 2:11) Acts 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men. 2Cor.3:6-11 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious. Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17) יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm! Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org .                    Evil Curse=114 Prov:3:33: The curse of the LORD is in the house of the wicked:                     but he blesseth the habitation of the just. . .                     Lucifer liar = 114 (2Cor.11:14)                      quran false = 114 (Gal.1:8) .

ED,

We can both figure out ways to make words equal a certain sum but what you won't do is actually explain what a certain number even means. What does 114 mean?

Why should words or phrases that add up the same have any relevence especially when you clearly don't accept all the words or phrases they add up to.

It's like you're saying the color blue is bad and then I show you the sky and you just ignore the skty and find another blue thing you don't like

[bodhitharta]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 23 2010,11:39)

Quote (bodhitharta @ June 23 2010,02:41) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 23 2010,07:50) Quote (theodorej @ June 23 2010,00:10) Greetings Forgiven…..I do not profess to be an authority on the Koran or the Bible for that matter….I try to recognize the things of God in the course of my study….my age has seasoned me with patients and with my patients Iam able to discern…I can't help but notice the confusion that besets so called christianity,notably so in the many different interpretations of the Bible as well as the many different churches….God is not an author of confusion however he does see fit to confound and confuse the professing wise….The Bible is Gods hand book on how to live a meaningfull existance if you follow his instruction….This is not a contest between the Bibles' credability verses the Koran,the message from the Koran is to submitt to Gods instructions and life will have meaning….Given that man has edited and virtually rewrote both books speaks to the differences you bring to light….Let us remember God is not trying to save this world as we know it….If he was, he would not have to try let alone compete….Remember he is God the creator of all that is and nothing is impossible or possible without him…Iam a God fearing follower of christ who falls short more times than I care to recall.. Hi Theo, Im not asking you to be an authority figure. I understand your position perfectly because we are in the same place. like i said earliar in this thread, that there is no convincing bod, not myself.  The only way for both of us to agree is through revelation of God's truth, and for both of us to deny ourselves. Man created confusion. we need to idenitify what is confused. The Korans message is more than what you think it says. God is the only one who brings light. We share the same vision, but our differense is only on our perception of the bible and the Quran. Is Testimony just a story? Isnt the gospel of Christ that we are suppose to preach comes from our personal testimony of him. therefore a Testimony isnt just a story, its through that testimony God saves others. The bible has holy scripture that is inspired by God, that has not only they way of living but the testimony of the love of God. That is exactly what the Quran is: Quote not only they way of living but the testimony of the love of God But mankind is ever ungrateful. Why do you find it necessary to negate one thing to justify another? You say God came to this one and that one and then without any knowledge you say who God didn't come to or couldn't have went to? Is God really a respector of persons? No what your stating is that the bible is corrupted, I find that has a fallacy to Quran. I have argued the same point again and again. Its a contradiction. The Quran negates the bible yet hold on to it, which is a compelete contradiction.  The Qurans history and manner of being written his very questionable.   If anything It has nothing to do with Muhammeds testimony with God.   ITs one man trying to re-write a book the way he thinks. Now if you are going to ask me what i believe, I believe that God clearly stated that his word will be in our hearts and minds. and as we get closer to him, we will know his word.  He wants the word to be written in our hearts not by memorization, but by living and breathing it forever. Thats what i believe.

SF,

The Bible says this:

” How can you say, 'We are wise,And the law of the LORD is with us'?But behold, the lying pen of the scribesHas made it into a lie.
Jeremiah 8:7-9

Obviously this verse is saying that the Jewish scribes have been corrupt the Quran agrees and confirms this verse

But because of their breach of their covenant, We cursed them, and made their hearts grow hard; they change the words from their (right) places and forget a good part of the message that was sent them, nor wilt thou cease to find them- barring a few – ever bent on (new) deceits: but forgive them, and overlook (their misdeeds): for Allah loveth those who are kind.
( سورة المائدة , Al-Maeda, Chapter #5, Verse #13)

Both of them agree so how is it you fight with the truth?

[Ed J]

Quote (bodhitharta @ June 23 2010,12:13)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 23 2010,11:39) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 23 2010,02:41) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 23 2010,07:50) Quote (theodorej @ June 23 2010,00:10) Greetings Forgiven…..I do not profess to be an authority on the Koran or the Bible for that matter….I try to recognize the things of God in the course of my study….my age has seasoned me with patients and with my patients Iam able to discern…I can't help but notice the confusion that besets so called christianity,notably so in the many different interpretations of the Bible as well as the many different churches….God is not an author of confusion however he does see fit to confound and confuse the professing wise….The Bible is Gods hand book on how to live a meaningfull existance if you follow his instruction….This is not a contest between the Bibles' credability verses the Koran,the message from the Koran is to submitt to Gods instructions and life will have meaning….Given that man has edited and virtually rewrote both books speaks to the differences you bring to light….Let us remember God is not trying to save this world as we know it….If he was, he would not have to try let alone compete….Remember he is God the creator of all that is and nothing is impossible or possible without him…Iam a God fearing follower of christ who falls short more times than I care to recall.. Hi Theo, Im not asking you to be an authority figure. I understand your position perfectly because we are in the same place. like i said earliar in this thread, that there is no convincing bod, not myself.  The only way for both of us to agree is through revelation of God's truth, and for both of us to deny ourselves. Man created confusion. we need to idenitify what is confused. The Korans message is more than what you think it says. God is the only one who brings light. We share the same vision, but our differense is only on our perception of the bible and the Quran. Is Testimony just a story? Isnt the gospel of Christ that we are suppose to preach comes from our personal testimony of him. therefore a Testimony isnt just a story, its through that testimony God saves others. The bible has holy scripture that is inspired by God, that has not only they way of living but the testimony of the love of God. That is exactly what the Quran is: Quote not only they way of living but the testimony of the love of God But mankind is ever ungrateful. Why do you find it necessary to negate one thing to justify another? You say God came to this one and that one and then without any knowledge you say who God didn't come to or couldn't have went to? Is God really a respector of persons? No what your stating is that the bible is corrupted, I find that has a fallacy to Quran. I have argued the same point again and again. Its a contradiction. The Quran negates the bible yet hold on to it, which is a compelete contradiction.  The Qurans history and manner of being written his very questionable.   If anything It has nothing to do with Muhammeds testimony with God.   ITs one man trying to re-write a book the way he thinks. Now if you are going to ask me what i believe, I believe that God clearly stated that his word will be in our hearts and minds. and as we get closer to him, we will know his word.  He wants the word to be written in our hearts not by memorization, but by living and breathing it forever. Thats what i believe. SF, The Bible says this: ” How can you say, 'We are wise,And the law of the LORD is with us'?But behold, the lying pen of the scribesHas made it into a lie. Jeremiah 8:7-9 Obviously this verse is saying that the Jewish scribes have been corrupt the Quran agrees and confirms this verse But because of their breach of their covenant, We cursed them, and made their hearts grow hard; they change the words from their (right) places and forget a good part of the message that was sent them, nor wilt thou cease to find them- barring a few – ever bent on (new) deceits: but forgive them, and overlook (their misdeeds): for Allah loveth those who are kind.   (  سورة المائدة  , Al-Maeda, Chapter #5, Verse #13) Both of them agree so how is it you fight with the truth?

HI BD,

                  Lucifer liar = 114 (2Cor.11:14)
                    quran false = 114 (Gal.1:8)

Why do you BD follow Lucirer's lie? The Bible says unequivocally concerning the Gospel…
Matt.12:39-40 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation
seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet
Jonah: For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the
Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. (Luke 16:30-31)
Matt.12:39-40 clearly refers to the Gospel! Something the 'book of fraud'=114 denies.

.

[bodhitharta]

ED is lucifer = 111

mark of beast =111

son of sin=111

image of Satan =111

[Ed J]

BD….  Are you beginning to snap?

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Ed J @ June 23 2010,18:44)

BD….  Are you beginning to snap?

your game, what you don't believe in your numbers now

ED is Lucifer=111
Mark of beast=111

I could have put 6 descriptions and added those together and it would be 666 the number of a man and that man would be you

Stop using numbers for mischief

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (bodhitharta @ June 23 2010,06:13)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 23 2010,11:39) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 23 2010,02:41) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 23 2010,07:50) Quote (theodorej @ June 23 2010,00:10) Greetings Forgiven…..I do not profess to be an authority on the Koran or the Bible for that matter….I try to recognize the things of God in the course of my study….my age has seasoned me with patients and with my patients Iam able to discern…I can't help but notice the confusion that besets so called christianity,notably so in the many different interpretations of the Bible as well as the many different churches….God is not an author of confusion however he does see fit to confound and confuse the professing wise….The Bible is Gods hand book on how to live a meaningfull existance if you follow his instruction….This is not a contest between the Bibles' credability verses the Koran,the message from the Koran is to submitt to Gods instructions and life will have meaning….Given that man has edited and virtually rewrote both books speaks to the differences you bring to light….Let us remember God is not trying to save this world as we know it….If he was, he would not have to try let alone compete….Remember he is God the creator of all that is and nothing is impossible or possible without him…Iam a God fearing follower of christ who falls short more times than I care to recall.. Hi Theo, Im not asking you to be an authority figure. I understand your position perfectly because we are in the same place. like i said earliar in this thread, that there is no convincing bod, not myself.  The only way for both of us to agree is through revelation of God's truth, and for both of us to deny ourselves. Man created confusion. we need to idenitify what is confused. The Korans message is more than what you think it says. God is the only one who brings light. We share the same vision, but our differense is only on our perception of the bible and the Quran. Is Testimony just a story? Isnt the gospel of Christ that we are suppose to preach comes from our personal testimony of him. therefore a Testimony isnt just a story, its through that testimony God saves others. The bible has holy scripture that is inspired by God, that has not only they way of living but the testimony of the love of God. That is exactly what the Quran is: Quote not only they way of living but the testimony of the love of God But mankind is ever ungrateful. Why do you find it necessary to negate one thing to justify another? You say God came to this one and that one and then without any knowledge you say who God didn't come to or couldn't have went to? Is God really a respector of persons? No what your stating is that the bible is corrupted, I find that has a fallacy to Quran. I have argued the same point again and again. Its a contradiction. The Quran negates the bible yet hold on to it, which is a compelete contradiction.  The Qurans history and manner of being written his very questionable.   If anything It has nothing to do with Muhammeds testimony with God.   ITs one man trying to re-write a book the way he thinks. Now if you are going to ask me what i believe, I believe that God clearly stated that his word will be in our hearts and minds. and as we get closer to him, we will know his word.  He wants the word to be written in our hearts not by memorization, but by living and breathing it forever. Thats what i believe. SF, The Bible says this: ” How can you say, 'We are wise,And the law of the LORD is with us'?But behold, the lying pen of the scribesHas made it into a lie. Jeremiah 8:7-9 Obviously this verse is saying that the Jewish scribes have been corrupt the Quran agrees and confirms this verse But because of their breach of their covenant, We cursed them, and made their hearts grow hard; they change the words from their (right) places and forget a good part of the message that was sent them, nor wilt thou cease to find them- barring a few – ever bent on (new) deceits: but forgive them, and overlook (their misdeeds): for Allah loveth those who are kind.   (  سورة المائدة  , Al-Maeda, Chapter #5, Verse #13) Both of them agree so how is it you fight with the truth?

bod,

They do not agree,

Im sorry.

Here is the problem you do not consider context.
You didnt consider the whole chapter of Jeremiah,

Jeremiah 8
1At that time, saith the LORD, they shall bring out the bones of the kings of Judah, and the bones of his princes, and the bones of the priests, and the bones of the prophets, and the bones of the inhabitants of Jerusalem, out of their graves:

  2And they shall spread them before the sun, and the moon, and all the host of heaven, whom they have loved, and whom they have served, and after whom they have walked, and whom they have sought, and whom they have worshipped: they shall not be gathered, nor be buried; they shall be for dung upon the face of the earth.

  3And death shall be chosen rather than life by all the residue of them that remain of this evil family, which remain in all the places whither I have driven them, saith the LORD of hosts.

  4Moreover thou shalt say unto them, Thus saith the LORD; Shall they fall, and not arise? shall he turn away, and not return?

  5Why then is this people of Jerusalem slidden back by a perpetual backsliding? they hold fast deceit, they refuse to return.

  6I hearkened and heard, but they spake not aright: no man repented him of his wickedness, saying, What have I done? every one turned to his course, as the horse rusheth into the battle.

  7Yea, the stork in the heaven knoweth her appointed times; and the turtle and the crane and the swallow observe the time of their coming; but my people know not the judgment of the LORD.

  8How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us? Lo, certainly in vain made he it; the pen of the scribes is in vain.

  9The wise men are ashamed, they are dismayed and taken: lo, they have rejected the word of the LORD; and what wisdom is in them?

  10Therefore will I give their wives unto others, and their fields to them that shall inherit them: for every one from the least even unto the greatest is given to covetousness, from the prophet even unto the priest every one dealeth falsely.

  11For they have healed
the hurt of the daughter of my people slightly, saying, Peace, peace; when there is no peace.

  12Were they ashamed when they had committed abomination? nay, they were not at all ashamed, neither could they blush: therefore shall they fall among them that fall: in the time of their visitation they shall be cast down, saith the LORD.

  13I will surely consume them, saith the LORD: there shall be no grapes on the vine, nor figs on the fig tree, and the leaf shall fade; and the things that I have given them shall pass away from them.

  14Why do we sit still? assemble yourselves, and let us enter into the defenced cities, and let us be silent there: for the LORD our God hath put us to silence, and given us water of gall to drink, because we have sinned against the LORD.

  15We looked for peace, but no good came; and for a time of health, and behold trouble!

  16The snorting of his horses was heard from Dan: the whole land trembled at the sound of the neighing of his strong ones; for they are come, and have devoured the land, and all that is in it; the city, and those that dwell therein.

  17For, behold, I will send serpents, cockatrices, among you, which will not be charmed, and they shall bite you, saith the LORD.

  18When I would comfort myself against sorrow, my heart is faint in me.

  19Behold the voice of the cry of the daughter of my people because of them that dwell in a far country: Is not the LORD in Zion? is not her king in her? Why have they provoked me to anger with their graven images, and with strange vanities?

  20The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and we are not saved.

  21For the hurt of the daughter of my people am I hurt; I am black; astonishment hath taken hold on me.

  22Is there no balm in Gilead; is there no physician there? why then is not the health of the daughter of my people recovered?

Definition of VAIN
/veɪn/  Show Spelled[veyn]  Show IPA
–adjective, -er, -est.  
1. excessively proud of or concerned about one's own appearance, qualities, achievements, etc.; conceited: a vain dandy.
2. proceeding from or showing personal vanity: vain remarks.
3. ineffectual or unsuccessful; futile: a vain effort.
4. without real significance, value, or importance; baseless or worthless: vain pageantry; vain display.

my conclusion.
My point is that the word vain, means proud or conceited, because of the context presents that the evil family who were backslidiing felt like they were doing NOTHING wrong.

Therefore your Claim is wrong.

[Ed J]

Quote (Ed J @ June 23 2010,12:51)

HI BD,                   Lucifer liar = 114 (2Cor.11:14)                     quran false = 114 (Gal.1:8) Why do you BD follow Lucirer's lie? The Bible says unequivocally concerning the Gospel… Matt.12:39-40 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonah: For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. (Luke 16:30-31) Matt.12:39-40 clearly refers to the Gospel! Something the 'book of fraud'=114 denies. .

.
                      'The Beast: allah'=114

Rev.13:1-6 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast (allah) rise up out of the sea,
having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the
mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. And I saw one of his heads
as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. And
they worshiped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshiped the beast, saying, Who is like
unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things
and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. And he opened his mouth in
blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. (Click here)
.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 24 2010,18:57)

Definition of VAIN /veɪn/  Show Spelled[veyn]  Show IPA –adjective, -er, -est.   1. excessively proud of or concerned about one's own appearance, qualities, achievements, etc.; conceited: a vain dandy. 2. proceeding from or showing personal vanity: vain remarks. 3. ineffectual or unsuccessful; futile: a vain effort. 4. without real significance, value, or importance; baseless or worthless: vain pageantry; vain display. my conclusion. My point is that the word vain, means proud or conceited, because of the context presents that the evil family who were backslidiing felt like they were doing NOTHING wrong. Therefore your Claim is wrong.

You don't have to accept the claim but it is clear although you dislike it, not to mention that it says

Jeremiah 8:8 (New King James Version)
8 “ How can you say, ‘We are wise,
And the law of the LORD is with us’?
Look, the false pen of the scribe certainly works falsehood.

and another translation says

Jeremiah 8:8 (Young's Literal Translation)

8How do ye say, We [are] wise, And the law of Jehovah [is] with us? Surely, lo, falsely it hath wrought, The false pen of scribes.

and another translation

Jeremiah 8:8 (American Standard Version)

8 How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of Jehovah is with us? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes hath wrought falsely.

and another translation

Jeremiah 8:8 (Darby Translation)

8How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of Jehovah is with us? Behold, certainly the lying pen of the scribes hath made it falsehood.

Now you have a problem here either all these translations are in error which would actually prove my point or they are not in error which would prove my point

the entire Old Testament is based upon the Jewish people being disobedient and yet you somehow conjure up the idea of honest scribes that's why Jesus said:

For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 5:19-21

[SimplyForgiven]

Bod,
Your comaring ENGLISH TRANSLATORS to JEWISH SCRIBES.
The importance is to get the correct hebrew of it.
Lets find that out and make a conclusion.

Obviously the context of the KJV does not present that idea.

the context of all the above dont represent that.

So lets see it for what it is.

again you proving the bible has error brings down the Quran.
I have established this already.

but english bibles having errors is nothing.

here is another error that i found out.
Did you know that the spanish Reina veldara within the stroy of elijah vs the 50 baal prophets have a disorder in the verses.
If you would compare the two bibles one would have part of it in verse 18 and the other before.

the question does it matter?
Not really, why? because the orginial hebrew of kings was not written with verses nor divided by chapters. so therefore the translators took it upon themselves to add verses and organization to the books.

the TRANSLATORS would be the problem here, not the orginal scribes nor the orginal writers.

Therefore,
i dont see a problem with what you posted, i would agree not all bible english translation agree.
But that doesnt prove your point.

Stop trying to prove the bible wrong it doesnt help your cause.

If i were you, i would argue that the bible is incomplete and thats why the Quran is needed which would make MORE SENSE, btu thats not what your stating.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 25 2010,07:02)

Bod, Your comaring ENGLISH TRANSLATORS to JEWISH SCRIBES. The importance is to get the correct hebrew of it. Lets find that out and make a conclusion. Obviously the context of the KJV does not present that idea. the context of all the above dont represent that. So lets see it for what it is. again you proving the bible has error brings down the Quran. I have established this already. but english bibles having errors is nothing. here is another error that i found out. Did you know that the spanish Reina veldara within the stroy of elijah vs the 50 baal prophets have a disorder in the verses. If you would compare the two bibles one would have part of it in verse 18 and the other before. the question does it matter? Not really, why?  because the orginial hebrew of kings was not written with verses nor divided by chapters.  so therefore the translators took it upon themselves to add verses and organization to the books. the TRANSLATORS would be the problem here, not the orginal scribes nor the orginal writers. Therefore, i dont see a problem with what you posted, i would agree not all bible english translation agree. But that doesnt prove your point. Stop trying to prove the bible wrong it doesnt help your cause. If i were you, i would argue that the bible is incomplete and thats why the Quran is needed which would make MORE SENSE, btu thats not what your stating.

Actually that is what I am saying but to show it is incomplete is to also state someof the reasons why which include the scribes of old leaving out some things or corrupting some things.

[karmarie]

Bod, “This good news of the coming kingdom will be preached as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come”

It is announced, it has gone around the entire world, all have recieved that announcment, soon the end will come, according to what I read.

God is able to keep his word safe, why would it not say that it will be announced and God would not keep it true?   They found writtings in the caves and it matched what we have today.

I believe all God has shown me. If it is lies as you say, then how can I be judged on that? But only what I trust is true.

You choose to believe something that came later. God has a Son in my Bible, God doesnt in your book. God is Heavenly Father in my bible, God isnt a Father to anyone in yours. Gods Son was crucified in my Bible, He wasnt in yours. My God is love, yours tortures people eternally in hot fire, boiling fat and all the rest. Jesus in my bible has a name above all other names, in your book He doesnt. Well, you've studied both, so its your choice what to believe.

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