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Quote (dirtyknections @ June 02 2008,14:13) Hey…Isa 1:18 I agree…but not when it comes to the Bible…Simply put…”truth”..in the bible..is individually attained..individually believed…individually lived…so your version of it maybe a little different than mines…but as long as we believe those things essential for salvation…and we do everything else in faith…we will be fine
But what you're describing is not “truth” DK, whether it applies to Biblical interpretation or not is irrelevent. If you affirm that Yeshua preexisted His incarnation and others affirm that He didn't; both groups cannot logically be right at the same time, both groups cannot have the “truth”. That's the law of noncontradition. Do you understand?Blessings
I understand…but again…how can you state as “false” what someone else “believes in faith”…when it comes to the scriptures…again…just because you say its false…does not make it so for that person…now whether its ultimately “false” or “true” God will decide…”Truth” is individually attained…simply put…
For example…take JW's…of which I am one…they claim that Jesus is Michael the Archangel…now is their belief in this “untrue” or “false”?…well I personally can say i believe this…now does that make this belief of theirs “untrue”, just because I don't believe it….absolutely NOT…
For them that is part of their “truth”…likewise…
That belief is not part of my “truth”
Is it “truth” or isn't it?….God will let both of us know…when we are judged on our truths…
Again as long as they believe that “truth” in “faith”..who am I to judge it as categorically false…
Lemme clarify….you are absolutely right… both of us can not be right…but i'll let God decide who is right and who is wrong…
As long as you brother is “existing in faith”…REJOICE!!!!!
Hi DK,
'Thy Word is truth” Jn15The rest is not till it is shown to align with the Word.
We must recognise and hate falsehood and false ways.Psalm 119:104
Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.Psalm 119:128
Therefore I esteem all thy precepts concerning all things to be right; and I hate every false way.Psalm 144:8
Whose mouth speaketh vanity, and their right hand is a right hand of falsehood.I agree…but remember…the “truth” that I see and believe in the word..maybe a little different from what you see and believe…
Romans 14..”let each one be fully convinced”
Believe in “faith”…live in Christ
Hi DK,
Pliate, who was of the world, asked what truth is.
The Spirit brings us living in submission to the Word to unity.
It is of grace that we begin to have knowledge[2Peter 1]Example” Trinity
I do not believe in the Trinity
Some on here do believe in the trinity…
Who has the truth? We both can show dubious amount of scriptures that “confirm” and “support” our individual stands..but who is right?
We will see when Jesus comes to harvest
Matt 13:30 (NWT)- Let both grow together until the harvest; and in the harvest season I will tell the reapers, First collect the weeds and bind them in bundles to burn them up, then go to gathering the wheat into my storehouse.’”
We both “believe in faith”…so let God correct and judge when that time comes
Nick..
We all claim the spirit has “beared witness with us” (Romans 8) and has “brought us into submission with the word”…notice this scripture
2 Peter 1:5-8 (NWT)- 5 Yes, for this very reason, by YOUR contributing in response all earnest effort, supply to YOUR faith virtue, to [YOUR] virtue knowledge, 6 to [YOUR] knowledge self-control, to [YOUR] self-control endurance, to [YOUR] endurance godly devotion, 7 to [YOUR] godly devotion brotherly affection, to [YOUR] brotherly affection love. 8 For if these things exist in YOU and overflow, they will prevent YOU from being either inactive or unfruitful regarding the accurate knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
As long as my brother is doing these things I am happy..and notice what my brother and I are assured of
2 Peter 1:10 (nwt)- For this reason, brothers, all the more do YOUR utmost to make the calling and choosing of YOU sure for yourselves; for if YOU keep on doing these things YOU will by no means ever fail.
THerefore..as long as my brother is “believing in faith”…and “living in Christ”…I REJOICE
Quote (dirtyknections @ June 02 2008,15:03) I understand…but again…how can you state as “false” what someone else “believes in faith”…when it comes to the scriptures…again…just because you say its false…does not make it so for that person…now whether its ultimately “false” or “true” God will decide…”Truth” is individually attained…simply put…
Whether they believe “in faith” or not is redundant. I could believe the scriptures teach that Yeshua is actually a talking rhinocerous. It's not truth. Faith is only real when it's predicated on reality and “truth” is a statement of reality DK……Quote For example…take JW's…of which I am one…they claim that Jesus is Michael the Archangel…now is their belief in this “untrue” or “false”?…well I personally can say i believe this…now does that make this belief of theirs “untrue”, just because I don't believe it….absolutely NOT…
Yes, but whether you believe it or not neither validates nor invalidates it as “truth”. It's either true or it's false. And it can't be both at the same time. Can we agree on that much? I agree that ultimately God will decide on the veracity of doctrines but where we seem to diverge is you seem to believe that truth is up for grabs until YHWH deliberates, so it exists in the future tense only. Whereas I believe that the truthfulness of doctrines exists in the present tense. I think my view is more scriptural.Quote For them that is part of their “truth”…likewise… That belief is not part of my “truth”
He he you can have your own opinions, but not your own truth. Truth exists independantly of people's convicitions. Agree or disagree?Quote Is it “truth” or isn't it?….God will let both of us know…when we are judged on our truths…
Correct in one sense. Things are either true or false NOW, but they will be confirmed as such by YHWH.Quote Again as long as they believe that “truth” in “faith”..who am I to judge it as categorically false…
What if I believe that Yeshua is a talking rhinocerous “in faith” Would you not judge that as “categorically false”? Shouldn't you be doing this?:“The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ. And we will be ready to punish every act of disobedience, once your obedience is complete,” (2 Cor 10:4-6)
Truth has gotta be attainted then defended. There exists, after all, “docrines of demons”.
Quote Lemme clarify….you are absolutely right… both of us can not be right…but i'll let God decide who is right and who is wrong…
Yes but God has given us permission to oppose faulty teachings, to rebuke false teachers.“As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine, neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions rather than godly edifying which is in faith, so do.” (1 Tim 1:3-4)
“For there are many rebellious men, empty talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, who must be silenced because they are upsetting whole families, teaching things they should not teach for the sake of sordid gain. One of themselves, a prophet of their own, said, “Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons.” This testimony is true. For this reason reprove them severely so that they may be sound in the faith, not paying attention to Jewish myths and commandments of men who turn away from the truth.” (Ti 1:10-14)
That's what we should do. It's it patently false that Michael and Yeshua are the same. No scriptures confirm it, many debunk it. Confront the false teachers, reprove them, speaking the truth in love, let God do the rest.
Quote As long as you brother is “existing in faith”…REJOICE!!!!!
A faith grounded in falsity is not real faith though (“does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth” – 1 Cor 13:6). Agreed?“These are the things which you should do: speak the truth to one another; judge with truth and judgment for peace in your gates.” (Zech 8:16)
Blessings Brother
dirty But there is a difference between error and truth. We are to search out that truth and not stand still. There are some members that have been here and post the same things over and over and never learn from each other. Rev. tells us to come out of Her my people. Now you need to find out were the trinity doctrine came from. And who is it that keeps it alive. Just go to google and type in trinity doctrine. Very nice explaination of that doctrine. After we have been Baptized and have received God's Holy Spirit we will understand that which is of God, without it we will not. We can not close our eyes to others that have false doctrines. What does darkness have to do with light and what does falsehood have to do with the truth?
Peace and Love Mrs.Isa 1:18 and Seek..
I understand where you are coming from…but i still say that truth is individually attained…truth is only relative to the scriptures…so creating a “what-if” senario of “what if someone says yeshua is a rhino” isn't really useful…NO scriptures support that..i'm strictly referring to “truths” based on scripture..
Yes there is an absolute “truth” in the bible…Who has attained it? Well, thats up to the individual to and GOd to Determine…
The wheat has grown with the weeds and the sheep have intermingled with the Goats…these include the teachings associated with these groups…
Remember..truth is relative to the one seeking…
How do you know when you have “truth”…I say the spirit will bear witness to your spirit..now the question becomes..what about doctrinal differences? Well, again all can say is keep seeking and believe in faith…I know everyone wants to have the absolute truth now…I say we all here seem to have the essential truths..RIGHT NOW..simply put
If you Believe these things I REJOICE:
-God is the sovereign ruler over all the universe
-You must love him with whole souled devotion
-Love your neighbor
-Jesus died for our sins as a propitiatory sacrifice
-We must be baptized and made new in christ
-We must preach these things
Anything else…I leave to the holy spirit to work out with me in my own time…
ABOVE ALL..I believe in faith
Isa 1:18 …you made the comment, “faith is only real when its predicated on reality”…True…but the question becomes…”what is the reality of faith?” and “what is the reality of the scriptures”
Simply put, the “reality” of the scriptures is clear:
The devils time as “ruler of the authority of the air” is fastly approaching its finish…Christ died for our sins and was resurrected and exalted..REPENT NOW…Christ now rules as King in Heaven…Gods kingdom is at hand….THAT's the REALITY of the scriptures…
Thats the “truth” that Christ taught..Thats the truth of the Gospels…and that truth predicated everything that Paul and the other new testament writers said…everything they said or did centered wround those simple “truths”..This prayer i say for you both”
Ephesians 3-14-19 (NWT)- 14 On account of this I bend my knees to the Father, 15 to whom every family in heaven and on earth owes its name, 16 to the end that he may grant YOU according to the riches of his glory to be made mighty in the man YOU are inside with power through his spirit, 17 to have the Christ dwell through [YOUR] faith in YOUR hearts with love; that YOU may be rooted and established on the foundation, 18 in order that YOU may be thoroughly able to grasp mentally with all the holy ones what is the breadth and length and height and depth, 19 and to know the love of the Christ which surpasses knowledge, that YOU may be filled with all the fullness that God gives.
We can argue you about who has the most “truth” or knowledge all night..but I CHoose to Believe in faith…
Remember as Paul said in verse 19 that, “the love of Christ surpasses all knowledge”…
So like I said before…Long as my brother believes those essential truths I mentioned…and they “believe in faith” and “live in Christ”…..I REJOICE
Hi DK,
Not much time but wanted to make a couple of quick points.
Sometimes truth is difficult to discern in scripture but that does not mean two opposing view points (truth claims) are equally valid. Truth is exclusive by it's very nature. Assuming a third plausible option does not exist, one must be true true and the other false.Genuine faith, in the biblical context, is grounded in truth – “Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.” (Heb 11:1). Faith does not override truth, one cannot exist without the other, they are mutually-inclusive.
Blessings
Quote (dirtyknections @ June 02 2008,16:27) Remember..truth is relative to the one seeking…
That not true DK. Truth is not relative at all. It's absolute.Hey Isa 1:18..
I agree…but just as “faith'' is individually believed upon…so the “truth” related to the “faith” is individually attained…
Quote (dirtyknections @ June 02 2008,17:09) Hey Isa 1:18.. I agree…but just as “faith'' is individually believed upon…so the “truth” related to the “faith” is individually attained…
Is that true?Quote (Is 1:18 @ June 02 2008,17:05) Truth is exclusive by it's very nature.
Truth has a nature? If I receive truth, then am I Christ?Jesus said “I am the truth”.
You see, there really is a difference between identity and nature.
Quote (dirtyknections @ June 02 2008,16:43) Isa 1:18 …you made the comment, “faith is only real when its predicated on reality”…True…but the question becomes…”what is the reality of faith?” and “what is the reality of the scriptures” Simply put, the “reality” of the scriptures is clear:
The devils time as “ruler of the authority of the air” is fastly approaching its finish…Christ died for our sins and was resurrected and exalted..REPENT NOW…Christ now rules as King in Heaven…Gods kingdom is at hand….THAT's the REALITY of the scriptures…
Thats the “truth” that Christ taught..Thats the truth of the Gospels…and that truth predicated everything that Paul and the other new testament writers said…everything they said or did centered wround those simple “truths”..This prayer i say for you both”
Ephesians 3-14-19 (NWT)- 14 On account of this I bend my knees to the Father, 15 to whom every family in heaven and on earth owes its name, 16 to the end that he may grant YOU according to the riches of his glory to be made mighty in the man YOU are inside with power through his spirit, 17 to have the Christ dwell through [YOUR] faith in YOUR hearts with love; that YOU may be rooted and established on the foundation, 18 in order that YOU may be thoroughly able to grasp mentally with all the holy ones what is the breadth and length and height and depth, 19 and to know the love of the Christ which surpasses knowledge, that YOU may be filled with all the fullness that God gives.
We can argue you about who has the most “truth” or knowledge all night..but I CHoose to Believe in faith…
Remember as Paul said in verse 19 that, “the love of Christ surpasses all knowledge”…
So like I said before…Long as my brother believes those essential truths I mentioned…and they “believe in faith” and “live in Christ”…..I REJOICE
Amen DK.
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