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Again, Nick, you're confused.
Will JW's remove someone from telling people what JW's believe, or will they remove someone who speaks out against them?
What do you think Nick?
Again, you are confused.
David,
To be honest, your posts to DK are freaking me out a little bit. It almost sounds like the JW's are like the Mason's with their weirdo hand-shakes and secret riddles. They will “DFyou” if you don't comply. Almost sounds like you're swearing!
Anyway, the degree to which you seem to demand compliance is strange. It makes me feel really uncomfortable. And to think I was considering joining the group…… You make me leary of joining in. It's like once I'm “in” – I can never leave. Or if I happen to have an independent thought – I'm “out”. That is, if they find out. Sorry but it's creepy.
Quote They will “DFyou” if you don't comply. Almost sounds like you're swearing! Sorry, Mandy, JW, PO, CO, DF, RV, etc. There really aren't a lot of these. I've noticed that when people refer to Jehovah's Witnesses, they often just type JW. Everyone understands what this means. Similarly, Anthony understood what DF'd meant.
Mandy, in your opinion, why was disfellowshiping practiced in early Christianity? I'm not saying he should be DF'd. Frankly, I'm not even sure he is a baptized Witness, and therefore even capable of being DF'd. But that other site I found him on, had several people asking him why he would say, in effect: 'This is my name and here is my phone number and I'm a JW but I disagree with these things and people around me are aware of it.' The people on that site seemed to be cautioning him and wondering how long he would last if he publicly spoke against JW's.
Some scriptures I think should be considered.
Num. 16:3: “So they congregated themselves against Moses and Aaron [whom Jehovah was using as overseers of his people] and said to them: ‘That is enough of you, because the whole assembly are all of them holy and Jehovah is in their midst. Why, then, should you lift yourselves up above the congregation of Jehovah?’”
Question Mandy: How did that go for them? Would you view this as demanding compliance?
Jude 16: “These men are murmurers, complainers about their lot in life, proceeding according to their own desires, and their mouths speak swelling things, while they are admiring personalities for the sake of their own benefit.”
3 John 9: “Diotrephes, who likes to have the first place among them, does not receive anything from us with respect.”
*
Quote the degree to which you seem to demand compliance is strange. . . .Or if I happen to have an independent thought – I'm “out” Mandy, it's not the independent thoughts, but it's the contrary teaching that often follows, and even then, it's not just like your “out.”
Quote And to think I was considering joining the group…… You make me leary of joining in.
Mandy, I don't want you to join in. I just wanted you to go and meet the people so you have some idea of what we're all speaking about.Quote (Not3in1 @ May 30 2008,04:51) Quote (dirtyknections @ May 30 2008,01:01) 10:10 to 11:15 approx- Watchtower Study…this is basically a question and answer study of the WT for that week…If you have one handy you will noticed that the question and answer articles also correspond to a specific week…
I noticed that you don't necessarily have a sermon from the bible in your schedule. Here you say you have a “Watchtower Study….”. I realize the WT has topics related to scripture, but does it bother you that there is not a teaching/sermon coming straight from the bible instead of from a witnessing “tool” used for the religion? Just curious.Man, I'm really glad you're here.
Mandy
Hi Mandy.Not sure if “dirtyknections” answered this, but, before the WT, there is a Public Talk (which is a Bible discourse given by a capable brother). I'm not sure if you'd call that “a sermon from the Bible” or not. What I do know is that many that have visited say we use the Bible a whole lot. When the speaker gives a talk, he uses scriptures to back up what he's saying. Everyone looks the scriptures up. Anyway, I think that's what you'd call a sermon.
Quote hey 3in1… Lol…funny you should ask…lol..thats the name of a music production company that i started…so I just use it for all types of alias and things like that…
Everybody in these types of forums always ask, “areyou sure you wanna be called that?”..
So, this is you?:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=518989And this is you:
Quote Why this name?
CUZ WE FIlthyWas this a while ago? While you were away? Even if this name was one you chose a long time ago, I'm not certain it is appropriate, given most everything the Bible says.
I must say, your knowledge of MP's in Orlando is extensive. But, I guess that's the past. Maybe it's not even you. Maybe you stole the name from someone else in Florida, or they stole it from you. But those posts would definitely fit with “cus we filthy.”
Even if this isn't you, and just someone else from your music group, wouldn't you want to put on the new personality and drop the old one, including the name.Wow…lol…David…you are really doing some serious intel on me…lol…
For the record David…My name IS Gabriel Anthony Alexander…
I WAS baptized September 11, 1993
I was at the meeting last night also…what do you think about the bible teach being the offer for the month? Also i'm interested to read the new pub…”Live with Jehovahs day in mind”…i admit i'm not as well read whe comes to the 12 minor prophets…
And for the record I don't speak out against JW's…I simply express my beliefs about the bible…if someone asks me about a particular organizational practice…and i disagree with the practive…i will say so…
David…lemme give you a scripture…because…the other posters are correct in saying you are basically “putting me on trial” right now..as to me being a witness
Romans 14:1-4 (NIV)- 1Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. 2One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. 4Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
5One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. 8If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.e
David…instead of questioning and doubting your brother…maybe you try something more upbuilding
mandy you said
Quote Anyway, the degree to which you seem to demand compliance is strange. It makes me feel really uncomfortable. And to think I was considering joining the group…… You make me leary of joining in. It's like once I'm “in” – I can never leave. Or if I happen to have an independent thought – I'm “out”. That is, if they find out. Sorry but it's creepy. And you are right, in all honesty…independent thinking and thoughts are OK while you are studying…but it is strongly discouraged and counseled against once you join…
more emphasis is put on supressing “doubts”…and trusting is Jehovahs “faithful and discreet slave”…and “waiting on Jehovah to answer your doubts (questions)”…but the problem is were are told to look for the answers to our doubts and questions thru the “faithful and discreet slave”..aka the WT or one if its publications..
Sorry by this is counterintuitive…because the “Faithful and Discreet slave” who publishes the WT is where those doubts originated (i'm refering here to doubts about the things validity of something taught by JW”)
It is rare that you will get an offer from someone to do intense and focused BIBLE research..using alternative sources to help you come to your OWN conclusion about what the scriptures say….you will be counseled to stick to “food” prepared by the “slave”
Sorry David…thats the truth..and YOU KNOW IT…
Unfortunately…I choose to be taught the bible thru Gods holy spirit…simple put…
David..Paul talked about those who “wanted to be under law”…you sound like those ones…
Oh before I forget…David..
You people love to cry freedom…But so did Paul..
Except their is a difference in the two freedoms..
Paul said, cried “Freedom, thru Christ”
David..read the books of Galatians and Ephesians…and maybe you will understand what Paul was referring to
Quote I was at the meeting last night also…what do you think about the bible teach being the offer for the month? Also i'm interested to read the new pub…”Live with Jehovahs day in mind”…i admit i'm not as well read whe comes to the 12 minor prophets… –Dirty
Yes, I get it, you go to meetings. I don't doubt that. I never really doubted that.
Quote David…lemme give you a scripture…because…the other posters are correct in saying you are basically “putting me on trial” right now..as to me being a witness
You never really answered my question, about your name.Quote Why this name?
CUZ WE FIlthyBut you're not “filthy” anymore right, or at least, it wouldn't be something you'd be proud of? At one time, you were proud of your “debauchery” but that is no more, or at least, something that you would no more be proud of.
So why the name. Sorry to get stuck on the name, but it was the first thing I saw of you. It is how you chose to represent yourself to us. Your Nickname, “dirty” you didn't seem to mind it back then, and if you choose to call yourself that, you must still not mind it.
It makes no sense to me. It doesn't fit in with what I know to be true.Yes, you go to meetings, and you heatedly argue with your father over these things. I can not see this lasting. While I do not doubt that you go to meetings…
You were baptized in 93. You fell away. Left “the truth” as it were and experimented with badness. Then you stopped all that, (despite keeping the name) came back and started going to meetings. How long ago was that.
As far as I can tell, in that situation, you'd basically be treated like an interested attender, a new person, and you'd be treated well. But if you want to have any part in the congregation, it won't work. And sure, if you keep your thoughts and beliefs quiet, and don't cause disenssion…. I'm still not exactly sure why you go there. Is it your family?
Dirty, I've had this scripture given to me about 20 times on here:
Quote Romans 14:1-4 (NIV)- 1Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. 2One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. 4Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand. Does this mean they were “free” to eat meat with blood in it? Are we free to do whatever we wish? Or was this discussing something more specific?
Dirty, I think the reason I may seem so negative towards you is how you began this thread:
Quote Hi everyone, I attend the Macclenny, Florida, USA congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses. Now before you offer your invitations of “freedom from the cult”
..I want to clarify my beliefs. So here is a quick rundown of my belief system.-God is the father, Jesus is the son, Holy spirit is what he uses to get things done. Hence the the meaning of his name, “he causes to become”. So yeah…no trinity
-Salvation is by faith. Works are a by product. Yet you can't have one without the other.
-We are under the “Law of love and faith”, therefore we are “subject to no man, yet subject to all”. This is part of the reason why I have to clarify my beliefs as to my background as a JW. The org has in my option developed their own “Law”
which is contrary to the scriptural “freedom” Paul preached about.-I don't believe only JW's will be saved. I believe all who are follow Christ and put faith in his ransom sacrifice, while also love their neighbor, loving God with their whole soul, and simulatneously fulfilling Jesus last commision at Matt 28:19,20 will be saved. Baptism is an essential part of your salvation. Yeah, i know that is the perfect example of a run-on sentence ;-). Simply put, membership on a specific religions membership log means nothing when concerning salvation.
-Their are two hopes clearly in the bible. No.. i don't know who goes to heaven or who stays on earth. All I can say is that God will put you in one of three places when the time comes. those places are either: Heaven, Earth, Gehenna.
-Jesus probably isn't michael the archangel…doesn't matter to me though what way you want to beileve. Trying to rid myself of all the excess eisegisis myself 😉
-Jesus was begotten not created
-Jesus is not an angel..but he is in the same form as the angels, aka celestial body or spirit creature
-We have free will..given to us by God
-God is the source of all knowledge but does not know everything. Someone things he chooses not to apply his ability to foreknow…aka the individual nuances of our lives.
-Heaven is not the destination for just 144,000 JW but for whoever God chooses.
-The “faithful and discreet slave” mentioned is Matt 24:45-47 does not refer to the modern “anointed” of JW…rather it is refering to all Christians who are good stewards over their faith and the commisions Christ left for us
ok i guess that will do
You began:
You didn't say: I am one of JW's. You said:
“I attend the ….of Jehovah Witness's.”Then, to distance yourself, you said: Before you begin the attacks, this is why JW's are wrong. And you provided a list.
And of course your name, makes no sense, if you were actually one of JW's.
These things tended to make me wonder.
Quote And for the record I don't speak out against JW's…I simply express my beliefs about the bible. –DK
But in the post to Mandy, right after you said that, you do speak quite negatively of JW's and the way they do things. How am I not to believe you don't speak out against JW's?
david
Quote (dirtyknections @ May 31 2008,00:33) It is rare that you will get an offer from someone to do intense and focused BIBLE research..using alternative sources to help you come to your OWN conclusion about what the scriptures say….
DK,I have had several really good studies with these ladies. They've been coming to my door for years now. They bring new Witnesses to me because they know I'll talk to them and join a study. It's kinda been a joke that I have become part of their training process.
I do ask the tough questions. Sometimes all the ladies do is look at eachother and say, “We'll have to ask about that…”.
Anyway, I do admire their work and their dedication to bible study. That is the draw for me.
Take care,
MandyQuote (david @ May 30 2008,20:03) Mandy, I don't want you to join in. I just wanted you to go and meet the people so you have some idea of what we're all speaking about.
Thanks for the info, David, and the scriptures.I probably will join them for a few meetings. I know they will be totally shocked to see me strolling in….. They leave my door sometimes and say, “Someday we are going to get you!” Ha!
Have a good weekend,
MandyHi dirtyknections:
You say:
Quote A Christians job is not to convert…but to declare…declare the good news that is Gods kingdom…he declares by speaking the word, preaching the word, living the word, and allowing himself to be CONTINUOUSLY mad over over by the word And I say Amen to this. Based on some your posts, I believe that although you may attend bible study and worship service with JW's, you are a Christian free from any controlling spirit.
May God Bless you and your family
Quote (david @ May 31 2008,06:39) Quote I was at the meeting last night also…what do you think about the bible teach being the offer for the month? Also i'm interested to read the new pub…”Live with Jehovahs day in mind”…i admit i'm not as well read whe comes to the 12 minor prophets… –Dirty
Yes, I get it, you go to meetings. I don't doubt that. I never really doubted that.
Quote David…lemme give you a scripture…because…the other posters are correct in saying you are basically “putting me on trial” right now..as to me being a witness
You never really answered my question, about your name.Quote Why this name?
CUZ WE FIlthyBut you're not “filthy” anymore right, or at least, it wouldn't be something you'd be proud of? At one time, you were proud of your “debauchery” but that is no more, or at least, something that you would no more be proud of.
So why the name. Sorry to get stuck on the name, but it was the first thing I saw of you. It is how you chose to represent yourself to us. Your Nickname, “dirty” you didn't seem to mind it back then, and if you choose to call yourself that, you must still not mind it.
It makes no sense to me. It doesn't fit in with what I know to be true.Yes, you go to meetings, and you heatedly argue with your father over these things. I can not see this lasting. While I do not doubt that you go to meetings…
You were baptized in 93. You fell away. Left “the truth” as it were and experimented with badness. Then you stopped all that, (despite keeping the name) came back and started going to meetings. How long ago was that.
As far as I can tell, in that situation, you'd basically be treated like an interested attender, a new person, and you'd be treated well. But if you want to have any part in the congregation, it won't work. And sure, if you keep your thoughts and beliefs quiet, and don't cause disenssion…. I'm still not exactly sure why you go there. Is it your family?
Dirty, I've had this scripture given to me about 20 times on here:
Quote Romans 14:1-4 (NIV)- 1Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. 2One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. 4Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand. Does this mean they were “free” to eat meat with blood in it? Are we free to do whatever we wish? Or was this discussing something more specific?
Hi david,
So JW baptism is a commitment to that body
and not the body of Christ?Quote A Christians job is not to convert…but to declare 94,
I'm wondering what you believe Jesus meant when he said: “Go therefore and MAKE DISCIPLES….” (Mat 28:19,20)Of course, we declare the good news, we “preach” it, but more is involved. Teaching is involved.
MATTHEW 28:19-20
“Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, . . .TEACHING them to observe all the things I have commanded YOU. And, look! I am with YOU all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.””Quote Hi david,
So JW baptism is a commitment to that body
and not the body of Christ?Nick, please quote anywhere in this forum where I said anything resembling that in the least.
Quote (david @ May 31 2008,12:28) Quote Hi david,
So JW baptism is a commitment to that body
and not the body of Christ?Nick, please quote anywhere in this forum where I said anything resembling that in the least.
Hi david,
So it is not true then?
The JW way is the true way of Christ?
All others are deceived then and you have no brothers here?You asked DK about baptism relating it to faithfulness to the JW way.
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