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Quote (Shania @ May 29 2008,13:00) Quote (dirtyknections @ May 30 2008,03:09) well…i'll give you this little piece of advice… The key to being a Christian AND a JW…is your ability to seperate the bible from being a JW…yes they are seperate…
Again-
SO RIGHT ON
You cannot have a relationship with your Father through a pastor, an elder, or an organization- though it is important to be in a body of believers. Your relationship is just you and Him and only you are accountable to Him for your decisions, actions and behavior. This is why many people fall when their pastor falls– they put hope in him.
Like Nick says, “test all things”
I appreciate so much that your heart is to find the truth and to find your Father on a personal level- that you do not believe just whatever someone tells you too. You go and search it out. That can be hard and lonely. I applaud you.
I find it good to have a relationship with God and Jesus Christ, but to worship in a Church that I do not believe their doctrines is another. I find that being somewhat deceiving others, to worship with them if I do not believe what they do.
That is why my Husband and I are staying Home, I rather be lonely then deceiving others.
It is the Bible that says to prove all things, it does not come from Nick eventho He quotes it too.
2 Thes. 5:21 ” Prove all things.”
Peace and Love Mrs.Quote (dirtyknections @ May 29 2008,05:58) Hi everyone, -Jesus is not an angel..but he is in the same form as the angels, aka celestial body or spirit creature
-We have free will..given to us by God
Hi DK, welcome to the family of God. I am from India. We do have some JW here.
These are the few things that I don't agree with your beliefs. Jesus is not in the same form as angels or spirit creature. I don't find it in my Bible.Hope you have gone through the topic “pre-existence of Jesus”.
Do share your experiences with JW.
Peace to you
AdamHey nick…
Well JW dogma is ever changing as you know…I disagree with my JW bretheren…on many different things…
Honestly, most JW believe that God has pretty much filled all those spots..and the vast majority of us have an earthly hope…
I on the other hand believe, that 144,000 is symbolic and not literal…symbol for what? That i dont know…i'm praying and researching that…
As far as Jesus being Michael…naw…i can't see it…maybe he is..maybe he isn't…not that important a topic if you ask me
But yes we as JW are counseled strongly against questioning or as its called in the WT, “independent thinking”…
I on the other hand think that when an Org or anybody for that matter, tries to limit what you take and a isolate you “intake' to only its “food aka way of thinking”…that is a form of mind control, used to create mindless drones instead of, free people bound by the law of love and faith…
Therefore I live by these scriptures:
Romans 14:5 -(New International Version) 5One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.
Galatians 3:25 (New Life Version)-25 Now that our faith is in Christ, we do not need the Law to lead us.
Galatians 5:1 (New Life Version)- 1 Christ made us free. Stay that way. Do not get chained all over again in the Law and its kind of religious worship.
Ephesians 4:13-14 (Worldwide English (New Testament))- 13The gifts are given so that we will all believe the one way and all know the Son of God. They are given so that we will be really grown-up Christians, like Christ himself.
14The body of Christ must grow so that we will no longer be like children. We are like children when we are pushed this way and that way. We change our minds every time people bring a different teaching. Some teachers teach the lies of men and fool people so that they believe wrong things.
So you see…I follow my own set of beliefs, that i have been fully convinced of thru my individual study of the bible…but i try to be as sensible and reasonable as possible in my beliefs…as paul said,
1 Corinthians 9:19 (Worldwide English (New Testament))-19Even though I am no one's slave, yet I have made myself a slave to everyone. I have done this so that I might win more people to Christ.
thanks for your comments dk,
So now you are throwing off the shackles of men are you ready to enter the service of Jesus?
You must be born again.Hey nick…
That has already happened for me
Romans 6:3-4 (New International Reader's Version)- 3 All of us were baptized into Christ Jesus. Don't you know that we were baptized into his death? 4 By being baptized, we were buried with Christ into his death. Christ has been raised from the dead by the Father's glory. And like Christ we also can live a new life.
Romans 6:21-23 (New Living Translation)- 21 And what was the result? You are now ashamed of the things you used to do, things that end in eternal doom. 22 But now you are free from the power of sin and have become slaves of God. Now you do those things that lead to holiness and result in eternal life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 8:14-17 (Amplified Bible)- 14For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.
15For [the Spirit which] you have now received [is] not a spirit of slavery to put you once more in bondage to fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption [the Spirit producing sonship] in [the bliss of] which we cry, Abba (Father)! Father!
16The Spirit Himself [thus] testifies together with our own spirit, [assuring us] that we are children of God.
17And if we are [His] children, then we are [His] heirs also: heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ [sharing His inheritance with Him]; only we must share His suffering if we are to share His glory.
2 Corinthians 5:17 (New Living Translation)- 17 This means that anyone who belongs to Christ has become a new person. The old life is gone; a new life has begun!
I believe these scriptures acurately describe my walk with Christ and who I have become
Hey DK.
Questions: First, your name???
Secondly, this comment:
Quote I believe all who are follow Christ and put faith in his ransom sacrifice, while also love their neighbor, loving God with their whole soul, and simulatneously fulfilling Jesus last commision at Matt 28:19,20 I agree with that too. It's that last thing that makes me wonder. As far as I can tell, and I've researched this quite a bit, there is no organized group who are unitedly preaching the same message of salvation on the planet other than JW's. Sure there's the mormons which everyone likes to mention, but only 1 out of 200 of them are actually ever involved in the ministry. (60,000 out of 12,000,000.) My thoughts are that the message of salvation is so important (life savingly important) that you'd think everyone would want to share it. And yes, many on here would say this is there way of “spreading the good news” but of course, that doesn't help the 2 billion who don't quite have enough food, much less a computer. Jesus organized his followers, as you know, when he sent them out. I just can't believe the mass of confusion that represents this thread for example would be what Jesus had in mind. I would think their message would be united and the same everywhere. I would think they would not speak completely contrary things.
Quote I don't believe only JW's will be saved.
But you do believe it's necessary to “witness” about Jesus making disciples of him [mat 28], as you state.
Really, separating the name from what the name means, everyone should be witnesses of Jehovah and his son, all should follow the example of the “faithful and true witness” Jesus Christ.
Of course, this is not what you're referring to, but I feel everyone who knows about the Bible should be a Witness of Jehovah.Quote I still attend JW services because I do not see a reason to stop. I'm not sure you are one of JW's. It seems to me, if you are, you certainly hide what you are or mislead those around you very well. How do you feel about truth?
Quote PM me or better yet call me 904-616-2069….I think i'm pretty quailifed to speak on it… -I was baptized in 1993
-Father is an elder..mother a pioneer..
My guess is, this is the reason you would find it hard to leave.
Hey gollamudi…
Nick's reply to you concerning spirit is also my reply..jesus is a spirit
Phil 2:6- who, existing in the form of God, counted not the being on an equality with God a thing to be grasped,
1 Corinthians 15:40 (American Standard Version)- 40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
simply christ had a type of celestial body…or in modern terms.. he is a spirit creature…shape and specific form doesn't matter
A Sheep among wolves. Are you trying to convince your W.J. Brethren what your beliefs are and convert them, or why are you in that Church? I just can't See that you can fellowship with people that have a different understand of the Bible then what you have. How do you do that? Do you argue with them? Or do you not say anything to them? I am really interested in what you do.
Peace and Love Mrs.Quote The JW church seems to be the only church I've encountered who are truly into studying the bible…..I think I'll give them a try! –Mandy
Mandy, I'm wondering if you've ever been to a meeting of JW's. I would suggest going to a convention. You can ask those two ladies when the next one is. Yes, we like studying the Bible. And many of us like to apply what we learn. This is why I think it would be good for you to actually see that, in person.
david
Quote Do you argue with them? Or do you not say anything to them? I'm pretty confident that he hides what he believes.
Ps 26:4
“I have not sat with men of untruth;
And with those who hide what they are I do not come in.”If he's actually a baptized JW and he tries to subvert others or lead them away, he really wouldn't remain among them very long. Unless I'm missing something.
Quote We are given to understand that to question JW dogma is to risk your future chance of scoring a place in the 144,000. Nick, I know you've stated this at least 5 or 6 times now and I know I've attempted to straighten you out on this each time. You seem to not be getting it.
This person, here, is not one of the annointed, the 144,000, and nor does he believe he is. So no, nick, he's not afraid of losing out on something he doesn't believe is his.Hey David…
My name is Anthony Alexander….
For the record…my reasons for not leaving are simply what i said they are…please..before you doubt my words…why not allow me a chance to prove myself to be one who decieves..
People who have asked what i believe and where i stand know… I feel know reason to broadcast from the platform each of my individual beliefs…my parents, close friends, relatives, and the PO know my beliefs…so i am satisfied
Seek and find…
Remember..it is not our job to convert people..God does the converting…
1 Corinthians 3:4-6 (New Life Version)- 4 When one says, “I am a follower of Paul,” and another says, “I am a follower of Apollos,” does not this sound like the talk of baby Christians? 5 Who is Apollos? Who is Paul? We are only servants owned by God. He gave us gifts to preach His Word. And because of that, you put your trust in Christ. 6 I planted the seed. Apollos watered it, but it was God Who kept it growing.
As far my fellowship with people understand the bible different..if the Corinthian, Galatia, and Ephesus congregation
can get along…then i can get along with the people I fellowship with…If you remember Those congregations had problem with unity..
they had differeing beliefs as to the resurrectionThey had differing beliefs as to what Paul meant when talked about the freedom that the “law of faith and love under christ'' gave…
They had differing beliefs as to what was acceptable conduct in the congregation and what was not…take this scripture for example:
1 Corinthians 5:1-5 (New Life Version)- 1 Someone has told me about a sex sin among you. It is so bad that even the people who do not know God would not do it. I have been told that one of the men is living with his father's wife as if she were his wife. 2 Instead of being sorry, you are proud of yourselves. The man who is living like that should be sent away from you. 3 I am far from you. Even if I am not there, my spirit is with you. I have already said that the man is guilty of this sin. I am saying this as if I were there with you. 4 Call a meeting of the church. I will be with you in spirit. In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and by His power, 5 hand this person over to the devil. His body is to be destroyed so his spirit may be saved on the day the Lord comes again.
Now, why was this taking place in the congregation..Well for one they were still babes in christ…but secondly they had not fully grasped the freedom that Paul preached about…remember this was many years after the council met at Jerusalem in Acts the 15th chapter…Paul had been preaching “freedom for the law” for many years…yet they had not fully grasped it..
So you see, for me to associate with people who don't believe “exactly” alike is not unreasonable…whats important is the core beliefs WE DO SHARE..namely
-Jah God is the supreme ruler over the universe
-He sent his son to die for us as a propitiatory sacrifice to atonefor mankinds sins
-We must partake in this ransom in order to recieve the promises God has promised
-Love your neighbor as yourself
-Love Jah your god with whole souled devotion
-Gods kingdom is at hand
-We must preach these things
Long as you have those central beliefs…you are fine with me..no matter who you are…
I choose to leave it up to the master to seperate the “wheat from the weeds” and the “sheep from the goats”
David..just so you don't think i'm an impostor..here you go (i hope this helps)
-I think the new BS arrangement is going to provide needed relief for the brothers. How do you feel about it..
-I love the new study editions of the WT…although I would like to see a change in some of the questioning. PM if you want to know what i mean by that
-My BS now meets on Sat mornings…the conductor is Douglas Behr
-This is my 3rd time going over the Revelation book…how many times have you studied it? friendly question…not confrontational..just wondering how long you been a witness
-I average a little less than the national average…my time fell off due to sickness..had surgery recently to correct, some gastrointestinal issues
-I am still an active member of the school…
like i said call me if you want to pick my brain..lol
Hey Nick…
Well..i would hope not…seems like he is earnestly seeking the truth just like me..I would hate for a few doctrinal differences to get in the way of stimulating and healthy convo
I think you've sent a shockwave through David's whole world. A witness who calls into question the veracity of some of their core doctrines?!?!
Does not compute….does not compute…system failure….system failure…..
He he, just kidding David, you know I like to kid around with you.
Hello DK, BTW, nice to meet you.
Quote (david @ May 29 2008,15:26) Quote The JW church seems to be the only church I've encountered who are truly into studying the bible…..I think I'll give them a try! –Mandy
Mandy, I'm wondering if you've ever been to a meeting of JW's. I would suggest going to a convention. You can ask those two ladies when the next one is. Yes, we like studying the Bible. And many of us like to apply what we learn. This is why I think it would be good for you to actually see that, in person.
david
Hi David,I've been close to attending a few meetings but something always happens and I don't go.
It's kinda like Irene said, I feel guilty for worshipping with certain religions when I do not buy everything they are selling. On the other hand, like DK has shared, it may not be completely necessary that I believe every little detail?
David, is there nothing about the JW dogma that you disagree with? Were you raised a JW?
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