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Quote (music4two @ Mar. 16 2007,03:32) Wooooo Hooooo! Made the monkey jump!!! Ha Ha
Didnt stay away for long did you
hi,
i originally posted b/c i had (and still have) questions about the divinity of Jesus. i left town for a little while and i have returned to see, sadly, that this thread has rapidly digressed.
Quote (music4two @ Mar. 15 2007,22:35) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 15 2007,18:50) Hi m42,
What can you expect from monkeys?
I am sure you have more to offer than just supercilious contempt.
If you only come to teach and not to share in learning then have you not deemed yourself superior and unteachable?
Loving your neighbour does not include such attitudes does it?
1. Did not come to teach nor have I claimed to be a teacher.
2. After months on here I have yet to see anyone honest enough with scripture or willing to go deeper then a kindergarten level Christianity. What am I supposed to learn from that? I am teachable but someone has to have something I have not dissproven 30 times over already.
3. Came here for entertainment as I have said many many times. It is becoming less and less entertaining and therefore is losing it's draw.I am not interested in illusional Christianity which is what is most often offered on here.
Now I am done discussing it with you too. I am outta here for a season and will see if some better quality people come in another time.
music, you once told me that you could tell that i was “hungry” by all the questions i was asking. why would you resort to “general” statements about “everyone” on this site. i thought you were teaching me what you have discovered in your search for truth. i did not realize that i was merely entertainment for you.
and is 1:18 – “good riddance” ? what is the purpose of this forum if not to discuss our beliefs in an effort to draw us closer to the truth?
yes, many of you are already confident that the whole your beliefs are the very truth of God according to His Word. for those of us that are still seeking, like myself, please humor us and stick to the topics at hand so we perhaps could learn and perhaps be guided by the Holy Spirit into all truth.
thank you. i appreciate any input you have regarding previously posted questions about the divinity of Jesus.
Quote (toteachachild @ Mar. 16 2007,07:03) and is 1:18 – “good riddance” ? what is the purpose of this forum if not to discuss our beliefs in an effort to draw us closer to the truth?
To be honest I thought it was appropriate given his attitude, although yes – it perhaps could have been more softly worded. If M42 is going to behave like a spoilt child and malign those that don't happan to agree with his views then this isn't the right place for him, he should leave, people disagree here all the time. If however he has a change of heart and decides to respect them regardless of whether they extol his (self-acclaimed) understanding and perspectives or not, then it'd be good to have him here.Thats' my honest thoughts.
To be fair to music4two, I have learned some things from his posts.
I enjoy reading through the ancient Hebrew page that he gave us as well.I am surprised and disapointed in his idea that we are all monkeys though.
I am not even sure that I know what that means.:(TIm
Making the monkeys jump is refering to the mimickry of that species. I see lots of mimiciking Christianity, but I am very dissapointed it the lack of reality I see in many on this board.
THAT DOES NOT INCLUDE ALL.
Phoenix? You put down Jeff Benner from the very start out of ignornce or unwillingness to hear the truth. Instead you relied on the definitions of a man stuck in a dead religion that killed their own saviour. I will take a nuclear engineer who is Spirit filled and walking with Jesus anytime over that. Only a fool would chose otherwise.
To teach, I you are honestly seeking truth, then I would suggest you look elsewhere. those on this board that take it seriously are not the type that can give you truth. They are head knowledge Christians that know little about the heart relationship needed to walk with God.
Tim – I appreciate your comment, but I would say the same to you as Toteach. Look for real life outside of the internet.
Isa? I could really care less about your comments. I don't even remember any dialog between us.
Nick, You are so busy trying to keep this silly thing alive you don't even read the post you reply to. Give it up man. If it dies then good ridence.Come on nick. Kick me off. End my temptatioon to tell you all any more truth/
Quote (music4two @ Mar. 16 2007,14:06) Tim – I appreciate your comment, but I would say the same to you as Toteach. Look for real life outside of the internet.
Hi Music4two,If you are still watching this site.
Thanks for clearing up the monkey thing.I do search for real truth outside of the internet.
I do, however learn some things on the net. But I am mainly interested with how a God that is not a God of confusion, can have so many confused followers.
It fascinates me how many different ways a single verse can be interpreted, let alone the entire bible.Tim
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 14 2007,00:39) Hi m42,
Where does scripture say our spirit is our personality and must be formed?
Hi Nick:M42 was merely quoting what I said, and Maybe he agreed with me, but by your response to many of the posts, it appears that you are not reading what has been stated before making your statements.
M42 I thank you for giving me your understanding of various scriptures. I have agreed with you on much of what you have taught, but not with all. However, I don't agree with the slanderous remarks about those on this site. But I do agree that many of the comments made are very irritating. Apparently, you have let it get the best of you. We need to learn to apply the Word of God in all situations of our life. This site is a good test.
Nick, how many have you irritated with your comments? Many have left from posting on this site because of it. In my humble opinion, this is a fault that you may need to work on in order to make this site better. All of us have faults, and so, I am not saying this to be judgmental, but I am concerned that you are irritating many. Just go back and see if this is not true.
“Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath: for the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God”. (James 1:19)
“But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image (I understand this to mean that our spirit or personality is formed) from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord”. (2 Co. 3:18)
God Bless
Brothers and sisters – hello! I just found you and I'm pretty excited to be here. I have a lot of questions. I've been studying the Trinity since 2003. So, I look forward to reading some posts and posting myself.
Wisdom from heaven is peace loving……
Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up…..
Spur one another on to do good works…..Just some gentle encouragement to seek higher ground. Loving one another has got to be one of the hardest things to do, and yet Jesus really wants us to!
Quote (Not3in1 @ Mar. 17 2007,01:29) Brothers and sisters – hello! I just found you and I'm pretty excited to be here. I have a lot of questions. I've been studying the Trinity since 2003. So, I look forward to reading some posts and posting myself. Wisdom from heaven is peace loving……
Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up…..
Spur one another on to do good works…..Just some gentle encouragement to seek higher ground. Loving one another has got to be one of the hardest things to do, and yet Jesus really wants us to!
Not3in1Hi and welcome!
Good words! You sure are at the right site to test those words.
As you can see I am sure we probably dont agree but, welcome and look forward to reading some of your posts.
Blessings!
Quote (Not3in1 @ Mar. 17 2007,01:29) Brothers and sisters – hello! I just found you and I'm pretty excited to be here. I have a lot of questions. I've been studying the Trinity since 2003. So, I look forward to reading some posts and posting myself. Wisdom from heaven is peace loving……
Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up…..
Spur one another on to do good works…..Just some gentle encouragement to seek higher ground. Loving one another has got to be one of the hardest things to do, and yet Jesus really wants us to!
Welcome Not3,hey nick,
as i was going back and reading through this thread again, i had more questions…Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 05 2007,18:10) Hi tt and m42,
I agree with you toteach that Christ as a child and young adult was not living in the power of the Spirit of God any more than any of us. He certainly is not recorded as expressing any supernatural powers till after the Jordan and we are told he was made like to us in all ways except sin, and none of us have such natural powers. After the Jordan Luke tells us he was filled with the Spirit and no such statements occur before then.
He was not following John the Baptist and we should not make assumptions about such things but look at the fruit. God was as a father to Christ as a child and Jesus recognised this and spoke of it in the temple, but the Spirit of God did not manifest in power and grace till the Sppirit came down as a dove in the Jordan. People spoke of him as an ordinary person and member of his earthly family till he was changed.
We cannot follow a superman. We can follow a man who was changed by the baptism in the Spirit of God as we must also seek as those without the Spirit do not have Christ.Quote Posted: Mar. 08 2007,02:02 ——————————————————————————–
Hi m42,
We are meant to follow Jesus.
If he is different then we cannot do so.
What functionality does that have?
~if Jesus was made like to us in all ways except sin, does the word “except” imply that He is, at least somewhat different from us?
~why could we not follow Jesus if He were different from us?
~you refer to Jesus as the monogenes a lot, does this word imply that He is different from us?what is evident to me at this point:
~Jesus is flesh, but also the Son of God. He came in the flesh, which makes Him like us, yet Jesus is the only begotten Son of God, which makes Him different from us.thank you for giving thought to my questions. this journey seems forever long right now. i appreciate your input (and anyone else who would care to respond.)
Hi TTm
Don't forget that he he was made like us in all ways but overcame sin to fulfill the OT Law.Heb 2
” 14Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;15And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
17Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
18For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.”
Revelation 3:21
To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.Hi TTm
He emptied himself [phil 2]
He was given no personal advantages over us so that the power of God would be seen in his vessel.
2 Corinthians 4:7
But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.Hi ToTeach,
I have been studying the Trinity since 2003. One of the first things I looked at was the genuine sonship of Jesus. Because I also work in the medical field, I took it a bit further and decided to really look at the conception of Jesus. Now, if God is Jesus' biological Father (and he is), then Jesus must also contain “divine” as well as “human” elements. We find that this backed up in scripture. Paul tells us that “as to his human nature…..” and also “as to his spirit….” so we see there are two “natures” taking place in Jesus. This is not to say that Jesus is half God and half man – I do not see that point of view in the whole tenor of scripture. I do see that Jesus is a human man. He was born of a women, under law, just the very same as you and I. Flesh and blood. He had to be flesh and blood to partake in the sufferings of man(kind). The fact that God Almighty was his Daddy, doesn't mean that he isn't like us. After all, God Almighty is also my Daddy, too. I'm adopted and so are you! We can partake in that “divine” nature.Who is Jesus? The question is always answered with another question…..What is Jesus? God sent a man the first time – Adam. Paul tells us that he sent a man – Jesus – the second time, too. Jesus is a man. A unique man. He is a combination of his Father and his Mother. Just like you are and just like I am. Jesus is a divine man. Now listen to this, this is the best part, now that we are born again (we have followed Jesus in his death and soon his ressurection) we are like him! We are also sons and daughters. We are, in fact, co-heirs with Jesus (we get what he gets, essentially). We were meant to be divine children all along. Now we can realize that because of Jesus and all he sacrificed for us.
Jesus is God's son. And we are adopted sons and daughters. Jesus was the first (divine) son…….we follow.
It's very late here on the West Coast, I can provide scriptures if need be, however I'm sure you all are most familiar with the passages I have alluded to. Take care all and I'm very happy to participate in this discussion.
Goodnight
Hi Not 3,
Rom 1
” 3Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;4And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: “
Christ was a man exactly like us according to the flesh and utterly depandant on the Spirit of God given at the Jordan anointing for power and wisdom.Quote (Not3in1 @ Mar. 18 2007,07:36) Hi ToTeach,
I have been studying the Trinity since 2003. One of the first things I looked at was the genuine sonship of Jesus. Because I also work in the medical field, I took it a bit further and decided to really look at the conception of Jesus. Now, if God is Jesus' biological Father (and he is), then Jesus must also contain “divine” as well as “human” elements. We find that this backed up in scripture. Paul tells us that “as to his human nature…..” and also “as to his spirit….” so we see there are two “natures” taking place in Jesus. This is not to say that Jesus is half God and half man – I do not see that point of view in the whole tenor of scripture. I do see that Jesus is a human man. He was born of a women, under law, just the very same as you and I. Flesh and blood. He had to be flesh and blood to partake in the sufferings of man(kind). The fact that God Almighty was his Daddy, doesn't mean that he isn't like us. After all, God Almighty is also my Daddy, too. I'm adopted and so are you! We can partake in that “divine” nature.Who is Jesus? The question is always answered with another question…..What is Jesus? God sent a man the first time – Adam. Paul tells us that he sent a man – Jesus – the second time, too. Jesus is a man. A unique man. He is a combination of his Father and his Mother. Just like you are and just like I am. Jesus is a divine man. Now listen to this, this is the best part, now that we are born again (we have followed Jesus in his death and soon his ressurection) we are like him! We are also sons and daughters. We are, in fact, co-heirs with Jesus (we get what he gets, essentially). We were meant to be divine children all along. Now we can realize that because of Jesus and all he sacrificed for us.
Jesus is God's son. And we are adopted sons and daughters. Jesus was the first (divine) son…….we follow.
It's very late here on the West Coast, I can provide scriptures if need be, however I'm sure you all are most familiar with the passages I have alluded to. Take care all and I'm very happy to participate in this discussion.
Goodnight
Hi,
A well thought out post. A quick question though, I was wondering as I read it whether or not you believe (from your understanding of the scripture) that Yeshua preexisted His natural birth? And if so, what kind of being do you think He existed as?Good morning all,
I love the subject of pre-existence! On the heels of the question, “Who is Jesus?” there is always another question that follows, and that is, “What is Jesus?” For me, the subject of pre-existence answers both of these questions at the same time.
If Jesus is the Son of God (as we are sons and daughters of our parents), then he did not pre-exist, as I did not pre-exist my own birth.
If you believe that Jesus is somehow a “second person” of one “being” then of course, he had to pre-exist to be “incarnated.” You can see how the non-biblical vocabulary just snowballs? And how utterly confusing it can become. Because to be this, it has to be that, and to be that it had to start out as the other, and so on, and so on. Around the mulberry-God-is-three-persons bush we go!
But now this is an interesting subject. Not because it provides a platform for any one of us who has studied to bring our particular scriptures to the table (to prove our particular slant.) Because as we know, scripture can be interpreted six different ways by six different people – this board is an excellent example of that. Or because it stirs debates amongst the most celebrated Unitarians and Trinitarians – no, that would become dull very quickly. Because knowledge puffs up (and blows up, most of the time). It's an interesting subject because depending on what you believe about who and what Jesus is, you are either drawn into a loving relationship with him, or you are forced to set him apart from yourself. One view brings Jesus closer, the other view makes it impossible for you to relate to Jesus. And I mean “relate” in the sense of understanding AND in a family way (a relative).
Jesus is our brother. He is our family. We cannot over look this and still have hope of our adoption into the family of God! I have heard, in support of the Trinity, that man begets man. God begets God. But one minor detail has been glossed over, and that detail is that Jesus was born of a women. There is a combination that is not provided for in the previous equations. God/Mary begets what? A God/man? At this point we can see why Christians break off into two groups – those that believe Jesus was a man, and those that believe Jesus has a “dual” nature or that he is a God/man.
It's so typical of man to make things complicated, isn't it? We want to be masters of the universe and solve all mysteries. We want to make the biggest fires and build the tallest buildings. But what if the question of who and what Jesus is – is not complicated at all? What if we only need to look to our own Father's and Mother's and realize that we are a combination of the two? And what if we take that information and apply it to Jesus? What would we think of Jesus then? Could he have pre-existed as anything except God's plan? Just as we pre-existed as the apple of our parent's eyes? A unique combination is put together in the womb of a women that creates a human being. In other words, my son is the combination of his Father and me. He is neither all of my husband or all of me. He is a combination of us both – a unique individual. Jesus was made just like you and me. He is a combination of his Father and his Mother. And because of that, he could not have pre-existed as person of any kind.
If God wanted to incarnate (to have form) himself, he could have done it in any manner. He could have taken over the body of someone already alive. That would have been easy. Even the pagens told Paul of their belief that “…the gods have come down in human form…” so we see that incarnation is not a new belief. It has it's roots in pagen worship. God wants a family. He wants to produce after his own kind. Jesus was born and became a man because that is the most simple of human relations. We know how to love one another. We know how to make love and become pregnant. We know they joys of bringing forth a son. Family ties. When we are on our death bed, nothing else will matter but family. It's the strongest emotion and structure alive today. God planned it this way for a reason. Men would die for their families….
I know this is lengthly, and I apologize. I am not a scholar by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, I attend the Bible College of the “Kitchen Table” and I doubt I will ever graduate! But I love my Father and I am so grateful for his Son, Jesus. The Trinity took away my heavenly family. It made me believe that Jesus was not really my brother – but God in human flesh. Now I know that my Father gave me a brother – one that I can look forward to following in his death and resurrection. And when I am raised, I will be adopted into the family of God. Jesus is the only biological Son of God. We are mud-men. But when we are raised, we will have full rights as sons and daughters. This is our hope. The hope Paul says we haven't been given yet – that's why it is our hope! We hope for what we don't have, yet. Come, Lord Jesus.
Enjoy your Sunday!
[/I][/I]
Hi Not3,
No one is naturally of God's family in God's eyes. We must be reborn of water and the Spirit.Hi Nick,
I've enjoyed your posts very much.True. Noone is naturally of God's family except his Son, Jesus. We all must be born again. Good point and really it IS the point. Without Jesus being our brother, we could not follow his example in death and resurrection. Because of Jesus, we can also be sons and daughters of God and become one, big, happy family.
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