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Nick worte:
Was satan existing with God and in rebellion before Eden?
Were there sons of God who watched the laying of earth's foundations?************************
I've no idea. To be honest, these are not subjects that interest me at the present.
However, God tells us that when he laid the foundations of the earth, he did it alone. I take it that no one, or angel was with him or created. Am I wrong to think this?
Quote (Not3in1 @ Mar. 27 2007,04:16) Nick worte: Was satan existing with God and in rebellion before Eden?
Were there sons of God who watched the laying of earth's foundations?************************
I've no idea. To be honest, these are not subjects that interest me at the present.
However, God tells us that when he laid the foundations of the earth, he did it alone. I take it that no one, or angel was with him or created. Am I wrong to think this?
I think you are. Only because in Genesis when he says “Let us make Man in our image. Clearly that shows there were more than just him around.From the beginning of Genesis it explains the creation of the Earth. He didnt once explain creating angels or 'other' sons. So to me they must have been created before he created Earth. Am I right?
Hugs
PhoenixQuote (Not3in1 @ Mar. 27 2007,04:16) Nick worte: Was satan existing with God and in rebellion before Eden?
Were there sons of God who watched the laying of earth's foundations?************************
I've no idea. To be honest, these are not subjects that interest me at the present.
However, God tells us that when he laid the foundations of the earth, he did it alone. I take it that no one, or angel was with him or created. Am I wrong to think this?
Hi not3,
Jb 384Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
That passage is so beautiful, isn't it? Well, clearly if the sons of God (angels) were there – they didn't help in any way with creation. Which was our original thread….and that was……if Jesus was there as a carpenter of sorts, helping “build” creation.
“Let US make man in OUR image….” Yes, well, as everyone knows, there are a gazillion theories on why this passage is stated this way. Most of them make sense.
If this passage says what you think it says (that somehow “Jesus” was there and God referred to him), then is this backed up in scripture in other places? Or is this idea based on one passage or at the most – two, alone?
Hi Not 3,
Fun isn't it.
We know from Rev 1 that stars can be angels.
“20The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.We know from Revn that Satan is known as the serpent so Eden saw him in action.
Rev 12
'Revelation 12:9
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.I doubt it was his first work of evil because he was there in the BEGINNING
John 8:44
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.1 John 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.If there were sons present in the beginning why not THE SON?
John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.Yep what Nick said also
John 1:3 which proves he was helping to build…
3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
Hugs
Actually, I don't see how it proves anything of the sort. It was THROUGH him that things were made……but how? In other words, “how” was it THROUGH him that things were made?
Was it through a plan, or vision, or hope? Was it literally ,or physically? Too many options, see? So which one is based on the whole tenor of the Word?
Nick wrote:
If there were sons present in the beginning why not THE SON?
*****************Were these “sons” begotten?
Quote (Not3in1 @ Mar. 27 2007,07:10) Actually, I don't see how it proves anything of the sort. It was THROUGH him that things were made……but how? In other words, “how” was it THROUGH him that things were made? Was it through a plan, or vision, or hope? Was it literally ,or physically? Too many options, see? So which one is based on the whole tenor of the Word?
Nick wrote:
If there were sons present in the beginning why not THE SON?
*****************Were these “sons” begotten?
Hi Not3in1Fair enough assumption, but in my opinion…I dont think it matters. Either way it was done through him.
Also, that scripture I gave you was from the NIV. The KJV version is below.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
And here is the concordance that Nick showed me the other day. I think its cool even though I know zilch about it.
Number 1223
Transliteration:
dia {dee-ah'}
Word Origin:
a primary preposition denoting the channel of an act
TDNT:
2:65,149
Part of Speech:
prep
Usage in the KJV:
by 241, through 88, with 16, for 58, for … sake 47, therefore 5124 44, for this cause 5124 14, because 53, misc 86Total: 647
Definition:
through
of place
with
in
of time
throughout
during
of means
by
by the means of
through
the ground or reason by which something is or is not done
by reason of
on account of
because of for this reason
therefore
on this account
TDNT – Theological Dictionary of the New Testament
TWOT – Theological Word Book of the Old TestamentAlso, Not3in1, if you like I can explain to you how to use the editting buttons for your replying. IE: quotes, bold etc. So if I do help you learn how to use them… then you learned… through me. Agree?
But I showed you, not physically, nor face to face, but in cyberspace. Still, it was through me. Because someone else showed me how to use these editting buttons. Make sense?
Hugs
PhoenixI think this is the way John speaks because here is another verse…
6There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
Hugs
PhoenixQuote (Phoenix @ Mar. 27 2007,07:47) Also, Not3in1, if you like I can explain to you how to use the editting buttons for your replying. IE: quotes, bold etc. So if I do help you learn how to use them… then you learned… through me. Agree? But I showed you, not physically, nor face to face, but in cyberspace. Still, it was through me. Because someone else showed me how to use these editting buttons. Make sense?
Not just a pretty face….
Quote (Not3in1 @ Mar. 27 2007,07:10) Actually, I don't see how it proves anything of the sort. It was THROUGH him that things were made……but how? In other words, “how” was it THROUGH him that things were made? Was it through a plan, or vision, or hope? Was it literally ,or physically? Too many options, see? So which one is based on the whole tenor of the Word?
Nick wrote:
If there were sons present in the beginning why not THE SON?
*****************Were these “sons” begotten?
Hi not3,
Scripture only tells us the unique monogenes son was begotten of God. He was the firstborn of creation, the first and the last unique son.i know thats why i pulled a funny face emoticon. cheers
Edit: On second thought I should have said thank you. But I have really bad manners. Trust me my friends would definitely agree with that. That is why they laugh at me for reading the bible.
So … Thank you
Job 1:6 Now it came to pass on the day when *the sons of God* came to present themselves before Jehovah, that Satan also came among them.
Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us (and we beheld his glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father), full of grace and truth.
G3439
μονογενής
monogenēs
mon-og-en-ace
From G3441 and G1096; only born, that is, sole: – only (begotten, child).Jod says that the “sons” of God came to present themselves before Jehovah.
John says that Jesus is the “only born Son” of God.
So before Jesus was flesh was He a born Son of God? And if so then are the other sons in Job born?
Are all including the Word “created” sons until Jesus was Born Of The Virgin?
Was Jesus the only begotten before He became flesh? If so then who was His mother, Jehovah's wife?
Jesus is the first of the New Creation. The only begotten of the Father. We are begotten through Jesus by the Father.
The Word was with God and I believe part of God which made the Word God.
Is this right?
OH! BTW ” Now it came to pass ON THE DAY when…”
'The Day' seems like this is an appointed day, a special day that the sons “came to present themselves before Jehovah”.Wonder what day that is? Sunday? Any day? Sorry couldn't help myself it's so plain and clear!
Kenrch
Some good points, Ken.
P – thanks for sharing what Nick shared with you – very cool. And yes, I would love for you to show me how to use the edit buttons (I would agree that I learned THROUGH you, but I'm not sure what point you were trying to stress?) Because it is exactly that point (that God made the world THROUGH Jesus, that I am trying to make). In other words, you know how to use the edit buttons. I do not know how to use them. You teach me. I begin to use them. Who actually possessed the knowledge and power to use the buttons first? YOU. I will only be using the buttons THROUGH the power you share with me. WOW! Does that make your day, or what? Ha!
Nick – you are avoiding my question, aren't you? I know why, too. It's easy for us Unitarians to say things like: God cannot die, yet Jesus died. God cannot be tempted, yet Jesus was tempted. God never sleeps, yet Jesus fell asleep. And to say God is not a man, yet Jesus is a man. It is quite another to define who and what Jesus IS. And in fact, this is what I'm asking you to do in a very narrow sense. Why? Because your answer to this one simple question: Did Jesus inherit chromosomes from Mary? Might make you look at your view of pre-existence a little differently. Yes? No? Why? Explain, please.
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