- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 20 2007,19:44) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 20 2007,16:59) Quote (david @ Mar. 20 2007,09:48) Most definitions of “god” if you check dictionaries (which is perhaps the wrong place to get such a definition) have the phrase “object of worship” in the definition. God Almighty is clearly deserving of worship.
If the holy spirit is “god” then you would think it should be worshiped.
If it is not worshiped, then how can we call it God Almighty?
Even more basic, if the Bible doesn't call it “god” as it does of Jehovah more than a 1000 times, why would we want to do this?I think it's best to follow the Bible in this. Nowhere is it clear that the holy spirit is “God” or worshiped as God.
There are two possible reasons for this:
1. the holy spirit is not God or part of a trinity.
2. Despite the holy spirit being equal and God, it is never really called such and never mentioned as being worth of worship.If it is right to worship the holy spirt, then God would have made that clear in his word. It seems if the holy spirit is deserving of worship, it would be a sin not to do so, it being God and all. Yet, no mention is made of this. No command. No hint. And even if there was something that some could twist as being a “hint,” why would God's word only hint at such a thing?
This is utter nonsense and I often wonder why I waste my time on such obvious things.
DavidAsk your self how many Spirits of God are there?
The Bible says “ONE SPIRIT”. God is Spirit!
So if you are worshipping God you are worshipping Spirit.
Are you not?
The Wonder and beauty of this Great God we serve is that not anly are we worshipping God who is Spirit but we are worshipping God “in” Spirit and in truth”.
See, ask your self agian. How can God be in you and you be in God at the same time?
We try to put this Glorious, wonderful, infinatly all powerfull God who created the universe into our finite little minds and its like putting a square into a round hole.
We know in part but then we shall see him face to face.
Hi W,
You say God is Spirit but then claim the Spirit of God is another person from God, Who of course is the Father.Jn 8.54
” 54Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:”Somehow you make three
out of two
and then claim it is actually one.Sleight of hand is not necessary AS far AS the simple understanding of scripture goes.
NHI just quote the scriptures.
The scriptures say the Spirit of God is the Spirit of Christ.
You do believe this dont you?
Hi W,
But the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God, not another person.
Where are these persons in a multiperson God mentioned in scripture?
Does scripture SAY the HOLY SPIRIT is another person from which the Spirit belongs?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 20 2007,20:10) Hi W,
But the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God, not another person.
Where are these persons in a multiperson God mentioned in scripture?
Does scripture SAY the HOLY SPIRIT is another person from which the Spirit belongs?
NHAgain is not the Holy Spirit Jesus Spirit, Jesus is a person isnt he?
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 20 2007,21:46) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 20 2007,20:10) Hi W,
But the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God, not another person.
Where are these persons in a multiperson God mentioned in scripture?
Does scripture SAY the HOLY SPIRIT is another person from which the Spirit belongs?
NHAgain is not the Holy Spirit Jesus Spirit, Jesus is a person isnt he?
Hi W,
You say that the Holy Spirit is another person from Jesus and yet you claim they are the same?
Fudging facts cannot disguise the claim of the Spirit being
a person
as well as being the Spirit of the Father and Christ.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 20 2007,21:51) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 20 2007,21:46) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 20 2007,20:10) Hi W,
But the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God, not another person.
Where are these persons in a multiperson God mentioned in scripture?
Does scripture SAY the HOLY SPIRIT is another person from which the Spirit belongs?
NHAgain is not the Holy Spirit Jesus Spirit, Jesus is a person isnt he?
Hi W,
You say that the Holy Spirit is another person from Jesus and yet you claim they are the same?
Fudging facts cannot disguise the claim of the Spirit being
a person
as well as being the Spirit of the Father and Christ.
NHI will pray for you!
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 20 2007,21:57) Hi W,
The Spirit of God is the Spirit of God and not another person. God is one person-the Father.
NHThen I suppose when you asked Jesus to come into your heart another Spirit came in, and Jesus did not come in at all!
Is that right? Can you have the Spirit of God without Christ?
Hi W,
We are baptised into Christ, and the Holy Spirit is filled into us by the laying on of hands or private prayer. That seed planted takes root in well cared for and good soil and Christ as Spirit slowly grows in us, if we cooperate with God, to form us as a fully useful part of the body of Christ, joined through that Holy Spirit with the head, Christ, and in him with God. That Spirit is always in unity with the Father from whom it proceeds and cannot thus be another person from the Father.Nick and WJ, I'm just getting ready to read through some scripture and noticed your current thread. I wanted to add that for me, when I started to think about the Spirit NOT being a seperate person, this verse helped tremendously:
1 Corinthians 2: 10,11 – 16 (emphasis mine)
10….but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? IN THE SAME WAY, no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
16 For who has known the mind of the Lord (God) that he may instruct him? BUT we have the mind of Christ.
The spirit of a person is that person. The spirit of God is God. God has a mind, and Christ has a mind. As a Trinitarian, I could not reconcile these. Two minds. Two persons. Yet……one God?
An interesting observation – especially for NIV readers – notice when they choose to cap the “S” in spirit and when they do not. It is purely interpretational. There are no regs involved here. Depending on which translation you love, you will see notice that this caps/no caps is inconsistent. OK, on to other questions that WJ asked of me…..my kids get home any minute and so I may have to post later this evening.
Quote David Ask your self how many Spirits of God are there?
The Bible says “ONE SPIRIT”. God is Spirit!
So if you are worshipping God you are worshipping Spirit.
Are you not?
This is somewhat circular reasoning. And you did not address anything I actually said.
You say that in the Bible the holy spirit is worshipped because God is worshipped. Yet, that is the question isn't it?Do you not find it remarkably odd that this one who you say is God (the holy spirit) is never ever ever worshipped by the early Christians and no such command is given?
I don't find it odd in the least. Because God's holy spirit isn't God.
Quote Again is not the Holy Spirit Jesus Spirit, Jesus is a person isnt he? It is God's holy spirit, that he had to GIVE to Jesus. It is something he possesses. It is not him.
You ask to questions above which do not coincide with each other.
Yes, Jesus is a person.
The holy spirit is God's holy spirit, not God himself.Most definitions of “god” if you check dictionaries (which is perhaps the wrong place to get such a definition) have the phrase “object of worship” in the definition.
God Almighty is clearly deserving of worship.
If the holy spirit is “god” then you would think it should be worshiped.
If it is not worshiped, then how can we call it God Almighty?
Even more basic, if the Bible doesn't call it “god” as it does of Jehovah more than a 1000 times, why would we want to do this?I think it's best to follow the Bible in this. Nowhere is it clear that the holy spirit is “God” or worshiped as God.
There are two possible reasons for this:
1. the holy spirit is not God or part of a trinity.
2. Despite the holy spirit being equal and God, it is never really called such and never mentioned as being worth of worship.If it is right to worship the holy spirt, then God would have made that clear in his word. It seems if the holy spirit is deserving of worship, it would be a sin not to do so, it being God and all. Yet, no mention is made of this. No command. No hint. And even if there was something that some could twist as being a “hint,” why would God's word only hint at such a thing?
WJ, which possibility do you ascribe to? Or is there another possibility?
PLEASE ANSWER THIS.
Quote (david @ Mar. 20 2007,23:58) Quote Again is not the Holy Spirit Jesus Spirit, Jesus is a person isnt he? It is God's holy spirit, that he had to GIVE to Jesus. It is something he possesses. It is not him.
You ask to questions above which do not coincide with each other.
Yes, Jesus is a person.
The holy spirit is God's holy spirit, not God himself.Most definitions of “god” if you check dictionaries (which is perhaps the wrong place to get such a definition) have the phrase “object of worship” in the definition.
God Almighty is clearly deserving of worship.
If the holy spirit is “god” then you would think it should be worshiped.
If it is not worshiped, then how can we call it God Almighty?
Even more basic, if the Bible doesn't call it “god” as it does of Jehovah more than a 1000 times, why would we want to do this?I think it's best to follow the Bible in this. Nowhere is it clear that the holy spirit is “God” or worshiped as God.
There are two possible reasons for this:
1. the holy spirit is not God or part of a trinity.
2. Despite the holy spirit being equal and God, it is never really called such and never mentioned as being worth of worship.If it is right to worship the holy spirt, then God would have made that clear in his word. It seems if the holy spirit is deserving of worship, it would be a sin not to do so, it being God and all. Yet, no mention is made of this. No command. No hint. And even if there was something that some could twist as being a “hint,” why would God's word only hint at such a thing?
WJ, which possibility do you ascribe to? Or is there another possibility?
PLEASE ANSWER THIS.
DavidYou havent answered my question?
How many Spirits does God have?
God is Spirit. The scriptures teach there is One Spirit.
How many is there David?
Do you worship God who is Spirit?
Quote (david @ Mar. 20 2007,23:54) Quote David Ask your self how many Spirits of God are there?
The Bible says “ONE SPIRIT”. God is Spirit!
So if you are worshipping God you are worshipping Spirit.
Are you not?
This is somewhat circular reasoning. And you did not address anything I actually said.
You say that in the Bible the holy spirit is worshipped because God is worshipped. Yet, that is the question isn't it?Do you not find it remarkably odd that this one who you say is God (the holy spirit) is never ever ever worshipped by the early Christians and no such command is given?
I don't find it odd in the least. Because God's holy spirit isn't God.
DavidThen you believe God has 2 Spirits?
Quote (Not3in1 @ Mar. 20 2007,23:31) Nick and WJ, I'm just getting ready to read through some scripture and noticed your current thread. I wanted to add that for me, when I started to think about the Spirit NOT being a seperate person, this verse helped tremendously: 1 Corinthians 2: 10,11 – 16 (emphasis mine)
10….but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? IN THE SAME WAY, no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
16 For who has known the mind of the Lord (God) that he may instruct him? BUT we have the mind of Christ.
The spirit of a person is that person. The spirit of God is God. God has a mind, and Christ has a mind. As a Trinitarian, I could not reconcile these. Two minds. Two persons. Yet……one God?
An interesting observation – especially for NIV readers – notice when they choose to cap the “S” in spirit and when they do not. It is purely interpretational. There are no regs involved here. Depending on which translation you love, you will see notice that this caps/no caps is inconsistent. OK, on to other questions that WJ asked of me…..my kids get home any minute and so I may have to post later this evening.
Not3in1You say…
Quote 16 For who has known the mind of the Lord (God) that he may instruct him? BUT we have the mind of Christ. I find it amusing that in this case you interpret the word “Lord”.(Kurious), to mean God when antitrinitarians are so adament about One God and One Lord Jesus Christ.
Believe me, I have no problem with this because having the mind of Christ is having the mind of the Lord God!
Not to mention that if Paul would have meant to say God here he would have probably used the word “Theos”, dont you think?
Blessings
WJ, I don't know how to work the “quote” thing and so I will just answer questions at random for you.
1. Jesus being a man. Yes, I know we disagree here. When Peter answered the “Who do you say that I am?” question, he answered with – you ARE THE SON OF the living God. When Jesus replied to him, he said, “Simon, SON OF JONAH, this has been revealed….” Both of these men recognized who the other's Father was. Because of course, we come from our Fathers and carry their name. It tells someone WHO YOU ARE. Especially back then when family was a more cohesive unit and so on. At any rate, the real question here is this: Is Jesus a Son of God the same way that Peter was the Son of Jonah? I believe there is a parallel there for a reason.
2. You mentioned John 20:31. “…..by believing you may have life in is name.” I assume you are tempted to believe that because this verse says by believing in Jesus Christ that you have life, and that somehow makes him God because only God can give life?
I would say that we have life THROUGH Jesus Christ, just as it is written in 1 Cor. 8:6. Jesus is the reason we have life. But God IS the life that we have. Because of Jesus' sacrifice, we can have life through his name. WJ, going “through” someone is not the same as the originator. It would be like having to go “through” your Supervisor to get to the “CEO.” The CEO may give you a vacation, but you receive your vacation papers through your Supervisor. Who should receive more honor, your Supervisor or the CEO? Just another way to look at this.
3. Having a “God-like” attribute is not the same as being God. Jesus is God's representative. He is God's reflection. He is other-than God. That is why Jesus can say things like – Noone is good but God (excluding himself from possibly being God).
4. Various passages like the “Thomas” passage have so many interpretations to them it's not worth getting into here. Although, I have to say, has anyone ever considered body language? In other words, picture this…..Thomas sees Christ and he falls to his feet with his hands outstretched to him he says, “My Lord…” and then because he was so happy and wanted to give thanks to God, he stretches his hands towards heaven and exclaims, “…and my God!” All I'm saying is that would certainly change things a bit for the Trinitarians out there, wouldn't it. Remember, we weren't there so we'll never know.
5. A thought or a plan can BECOME life. You were probably planned when you were conceived, for instance.
6. The “….come in the flesh….” passage really needs a little history lesson attached to it for the complete understanding. In those days, Paul knew there were sects that believed Jesus was only a spirit. Some even denied that he ate and drank (they believed he only looked like he was doing those things). So these passage is really for those folks, at the time, who were questioning whether or not Jesus was human. Which of course, is testified to from all the disciples and Paul…..Jesus was the man from Nazareth.
7. Paul was a Unitarian. 1 Cor. 8:6 is his Unitarian statement of faith. For no where did Paul ever give us the lesson that God was triune. Had it been true – you could be that Paul would have been all over that doctrine! It was his mission to present the gospel so that it would be clear and understandable. He even asks for prayer that he may do this!
8. Your ref to the Timothy passages follows what I was saying in #7 – For Paul, the only God is the Father. He says this over and over again. Jesus even tells us who the only true God is – his Father. So, it is incrediable how you can cut and paste scriptures to suit you. Stop defending your creed and read the Word as it is given to us. If God is the Father, then he is the Father. If God is the only true God, then that must mean that the FATHER is the only one and true God. If you like comparing, please compare 1 Timothy 1:17 to 1 Cor. 8:6 AND John 17:3.
Same thoughts on the other passage in Timothy that you gave. First you have to determine who the players are. You name them. Then you can follow them and keep track of them throughout a story. If you know that God is immortal, then Jesus cannot be applied to the same title (as in these passages of Timothy). God is the only one that is immortal. So we know that that passage applies to God. This is how we can keep track of who is being talked about in what passage. Otherwise, it would be a free-for-all.
9. Regarding the Romans passage ref to God's spirit and Christs' spirit – I understand your concern here, but I also want to point out that no where is there a third “spirit” mentioned. That alone should be more concerning to you, WJ – I know it was for me when I read it as a Trinitarian.
In 1 Cor. 6:17 we read: But he who unites himself with the Lord (Jesus) is one with him in spirit.
In Galations 4:6 we read: Because you are sons, God sent the spirit of his Son into our hearts, the spirit who calls out, “Abba, Father.”
In John 17:20-23 (quoted in part): My (Jesus) prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who believe…that they may be one, Father, just as you are IN ME AND I AM IN YOU. May they also BE IN US so that the world may believe….that they may be one as we are one…..”
What do these verses share in common? Being IN someone is cleary a way of saying – you are a part of me. WJ, do you believe that you can be one with God in the same way that Jesus is one with God? This passage is saying that YOU CAN. Sadly, though, if you hold to your Trinity doctrine, this passage loses it's precious meaning. Because in your teaching, Jesus is one with God in a way that no one can experience.
There is only one Spirit and that Spirit is God. However, the spirit (no cap) of Christ is that of sonship. We can be one with him in spirit because he is the Son of God. Through (again “through” Jesus we have so much) the spirit of Jesus we can call out to the Father just like he does! We are one with the Lord because we join ourselves to him as the passages read above. Interesting point, however, there is only one Spirit, but God has a mind and so does Christ. The Trinity is starting to look like a three-headed being. Which also resembles the Hindu God, by the way.
10. 2 Cor. 13:14 “….grace of the Lord Jesus…..love of God……fellowship of the Holy Spirit….” I know these verse excite Trinitarians because it appears that all “three persons” are mentioned together. But of course we know that does not make the Trinity of God true. Not any more than having God, Jesus and the angels mentioned together makes them a triune God. But back to the thread of the spirit.
Our fellowship is with the Father and the Son (1 John 1:3), our fellowship is with each other and the Son (1 John 1:7), our fellowship is with God and with the Son (1 Cor. 1:9), and our fellowship is with the spirit (Phil 2:1). If we have accurately named the players, we will find that our fellowship is with God, God's Son, and each other. There is no other “spirit” that we have fellowship with.
About “showing you the scriptures” – I see that every one here is capable of tossing scriptures out to their own slant. In fact, if I stick around long enough, I may see the whole of scripture brought to the table! But an honest, thoughtful response is more appreciated from this member than is verse after verse used as a “told ya so” against the brother we are trying to encourage. Let's fact it, we can all bring scriptures to back our points of view. So, give me a paragraph of thoughtful pondering of God's word any day over lines and lines of scriptures I already know by heart!
After this lengthly response to you, WJ – I believe I will let our differences rest. I do not feel the need to explain anything further. At least I have given your scriptur
es some thought. And I have pondered your point of view more than you realize. I grew up in the Assembly of God church and have been a Trinitarian up until 2003 (not very long ago). I am familiar with your doctrine. I pray that you will be given a gift – to see another point of view as being scripturally possible. Thank you for sharpening my study skills, and for helping me to be even more grateful for the beliefs that I have in God and in his Son, Jesus.1 Cor. 2:16 is ref to Isaiah 40:13, which reads: “Who has understood the Spirit of the LORD, or instructed him as to his counselor?”
The NIV has a note by the word “Spirit” – interstingly enough – that says: Or “s”pirit; or mind
LORD = God (not my interpretation, my friend, check your OT)
I'm not sure what you find amusing, WJ? My lack of knowledge? My stupidity? But I have taken your bait and lowered myself slightly to encourage you to take the higher road! Encourage one another to search the scriptures – don't belittle people. It's rude. And it doesn't make you appear any wiser, believe me.
Ephesians 1:13,14
For those who would like to look up the verses in the NIV, you will find that verse 14 says, “who” when referring to the Holy Spirit. In other versions of the Bible (ASV, for one), it doesn't say who, it says, “which.”
One version leads you to assume the Holy Spirit is a “person,” and the other one a means by which something is accomplished.
Hi Not3in1.
I haven't seen you here before.
Thanks for your posts and I pray that you will be a great blessing to people you teach.
Regarding the Spirit and our spirit, my take is that we all have a spirit and God is spirit.
Jesus has a spirit and it is in spirit that we are one.So Jesus can be in the Father and the Father in him and we in them and each other.
Some people read spirit and think that it is a 3rd member of the godhead.
Hello T8,
I was just reading up on some of your beliefs surrounding pre-existence (in the Trinity forum). They are older posts, but I am the new kid on the block and I want to catch up. I'm pretty happy to be here and have already learned a lot. Like most folks who have left the Trinitarian churches…….it can get pretty lonely out here!Quote (Not3in1 @ Mar. 21 2007,02:51) WJ, I don't know how to work the “quote” thing and so I will just answer questions at random for you. 1. Jesus being a man. Yes, I know we disagree here. When Peter answered the “Who do you say that I am?” question, he answered with – you ARE THE SON OF the living God. When Jesus replied to him, he said, “Simon, SON OF JONAH, this has been revealed….” Both of these men recognized who the other's Father was. Because of course, we come from our Fathers and carry their name. It tells someone WHO YOU ARE. Especially back then when family was a more cohesive unit and so on. At any rate, the real question here is this: Is Jesus a Son of God the same way that Peter was the Son of Jonah? I believe there is a parallel there for a reason.
2. You mentioned John 20:31. “…..by believing you may have life in is name.” I assume you are tempted to believe that because this verse says by believing in Jesus Christ that you have life, and that somehow makes him God because only God can give life?
I would say that we have life THROUGH Jesus Christ, just as it is written in 1 Cor. 8:6. Jesus is the reason we have life. But God IS the life that we have. Because of Jesus' sacrifice, we can have life through his name. WJ, going “through” someone is not the same as the originator. It would be like having to go “through” your Supervisor to get to the “CEO.” The CEO may give you a vacation, but you receive your vacation papers through your Supervisor. Who should receive more honor, your Supervisor or the CEO? Just another way to look at this.
3. Having a “God-like” attribute is not the same as being God. Jesus is God's representative. He is God's reflection. He is other-than God. That is why Jesus can say things like – Noone is good but God (excluding himself from possibly being God).
4. Various passages like the “Thomas” passage have so many interpretations to them it's not worth getting into here. Although, I have to say, has anyone ever considered body language? In other words, picture this…..Thomas sees Christ and he falls to his feet with his hands outstretched to him he says, “My Lord…” and then because he was so happy and wanted to give thanks to God, he stretches his hands towards heaven and exclaims, “…and my God!” All I'm saying is that would certainly change things a bit for the Trinitarians out there, wouldn't it. Remember, we weren't there so we'll never know.
5. A thought or a plan can BECOME life. You were probably planned when you were conceived, for instance.
6. The “….come in the flesh….” passage really needs a little history lesson attached to it for the complete understanding. In those days, Paul knew there were sects that believed Jesus was only a spirit. Some even denied that he ate and drank (they believed he only looked like he was doing those things). So these passage is really for those folks, at the time, who were questioning whether or not Jesus was human. Which of course, is testified to from all the disciples and Paul…..Jesus was the man from Nazareth.
7. Paul was a Unitarian. 1 Cor. 8:6 is his Unitarian statement of faith. For no where did Paul ever give us the lesson that God was triune. Had it been true – you could be that Paul would have been all over that doctrine! It was his mission to present the gospel so that it would be clear and understandable. He even asks for prayer that he may do this!
8. Your ref to the Timothy passages follows what I was saying in #7 – For Paul, the only God is the Father. He says this over and over again. Jesus even tells us who the only true God is – his Father. So, it is incrediable how you can cut and paste scriptures to suit you. Stop defending your creed and read the Word as it is given to us. If God is the Father, then he is the Father. If God is the only true God, then that must mean that the FATHER is the only one and true God. If you like comparing, please compare 1 Timothy 1:17 to 1 Cor. 8:6 AND John 17:3.
Same thoughts on the other passage in Timothy that you gave. First you have to determine who the players are. You name them. Then you can follow them and keep track of them throughout a story. If you know that God is immortal, then Jesus cannot be applied to the same title (as in these passages of Timothy). God is the only one that is immortal. So we know that that passage applies to God. This is how we can keep track of who is being talked about in what passage. Otherwise, it would be a free-for-all.
9. Regarding the Romans passage ref to God's spirit and Christs' spirit – I understand your concern here, but I also want to point out that no where is there a third “spirit” mentioned. That alone should be more concerning to you, WJ – I know it was for me when I read it as a Trinitarian.
In 1 Cor. 6:17 we read: But he who unites himself with the Lord (Jesus) is one with him in spirit.
In Galations 4:6 we read: Because you are sons, God sent the spirit of his Son into our hearts, the spirit who calls out, “Abba, Father.”
In John 17:20-23 (quoted in part): My (Jesus) prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who believe…that they may be one, Father, just as you are IN ME AND I AM IN YOU. May they also BE IN US so that the world may believe….that they may be one as we are one…..”
What do these verses share in common? Being IN someone is cleary a way of saying – you are a part of me. WJ, do you believe that you can be one with God in the same way that Jesus is one with God? This passage is saying that YOU CAN. Sadly, though, if you hold to your Trinity doctrine, this passage loses it's precious meaning. Because in your teaching, Jesus is one with God in a way that no one can experience.
There is only one Spirit and that Spirit is God. However, the spirit (no cap) of Christ is that of sonship. We can be one with him in spirit because he is the Son of God. Through (again “through” Jesus we have so much) the spirit of Jesus we can call out to the Father just like he does! We are one with the Lord because we join ourselves to him as the passages read above. Interesting point, however, there is only one Spirit, but God has a mind and so does Christ. The Trinity is starting to look like a three-headed being. Which also resembles the Hindu God, by the way.
10. 2 Cor. 13:14 “….grace of the Lord Jesus…..love of God……fellowship of the Holy Spirit….” I know these verse excite Trinitarians because it appears that all “three persons” are mentioned together. But of course we know that does not make the Trinity of God true. Not any more than having God, Jesus and the angels mentioned together makes them a triune God. But back to the thread of the spirit.
Our fellowship is with the Father and the Son (1 John 1:3), our fellowship is with each other and the Son (1 John 1:7), our fellowship is with God and with the Son (1 Cor. 1:9), and our fellowship is with the spirit (Phil 2:1). If we have accurately named the players, we will find that our fellowship is with God, God's Son, and each other. There is no other “spirit” that we have fellowship with.
About “showing you the scriptures” – I see that every one here is capable of tossing scriptures out to their own slant. In fact, if I stick around long enough, I may see the whole of scripture brought to the table! But an honest, thoughtful response is more appreciated from this member than is verse after verse used as a “told ya so” against the brother we are trying to encourage. Let's fact it, we can all bring scriptures to back our points of view. S
o, give me a paragraph of thoughtful pondering of God's word any day over lines and lines of scriptures I already know by heart!After this lengthly response to you, WJ – I believe I will let our differences rest. I do not feel the need to explain anything further. At least I have given your scriptures some thought. And I have pondered your point of view more than you realize. I grew up in the Assembly of God church and have been a Trinitarian up until 2003 (not very long ago). I am familiar with your doctrine. I pray that you will be given a gift – to see another point of view as being scripturally possible. Thank you for sharpening my study skills, and for helping me to be even more grateful for the beliefs that I have in God and in his Son, Jesus.
Hi Not3in1You say…
Quote After this lengthly response to you, WJ – I believe I will let our differences rest. I do not feel the need to explain anything further. At least I have given your scriptures some thought. And I have pondered your point of view more than you realize. I grew up in the Assembly of God church and have been a Trinitarian up until 2003 (not very long ago). I am familiar with your doctrine. I agree to let our differences rest!
I stated my position and you stated yours.
I am curious why a man would accept Christ in his heart as God and then turn away from what he believed to save him?
You say…
Quote I am familiar with your doctrine. I pray that you will be given a gift – to see another point of view as being scripturally possible. Thank you for sharpening my study skills, and for helping me to be even more grateful for the beliefs that I have in God and in his Son, Jesus. No thanks.
I dont need to see another point of view. You see its too late for me, I have been serving my Jesus for 33 years, filled with the Spirit and speaking in tongues for 32.5 years.
I havnt forgotten whom I have believed.
2 Tim 1:
12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.These following scriptures I learned a long time ago, for I had a battle with a spirit of deception, and these became an anchor to my soul!
1 Tim 1:13
Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.Heb 2:1
Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.So I pray for you also my friend that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit will keep you in his Love!
Blessings
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
