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Quote Hi W,
Why not?
He overcame by grace.
We follow him.
We in him can overcome by grace.NH
So when was it that he became pure and perfect?
Hi W,
He was adjudged clean by God at the Jordan because God then filled his vessel with the Holy Spirit.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 18 2007,18:36) Quote So your Messiah is not the son of David? Luke 1:32
“He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give him the throne of his father David.”Whatistrue
Are you a son of Abraham?
Jesus is the fulfillment of the Prophesys of David. He is not by the natural seed of David.
Joseph was not his Father.
Matt 1:
16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.
18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.He was the Son of David by promise, just like we are the children of Abraham by promise!
So Yashua did not literally fulfill the prophecy that he would be a son of David? He only fulfilled it “spiritually”?What other prophecies did he not literally fulfill? There must be others, since “spiritual” fulfillment of a prophecy is acceptable in this case. No?
WhatisTrue
Quote Luke 1:32
“He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give him the throne of his father David.”See the following.
Jesus (Jehovah) Seed of David
Joh 7:42 Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was?
2Ti 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:
Jer 23:5-6 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch (Jesus), and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD (Yhovah) OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.Quote So Yashua did not literally fulfill the prophecy that he would be a son of David? He only fulfilled it “spiritually”? What other prophecies did he not literally fulfill? There must be others, since “spiritual” fulfillment of a prophecy is acceptable in this case. No?
Whatistrue
True.
He is by Mary of the line of David. But not by the natural seed of Joseph. I meant to say Joseph instead of David.
He is of Joseph by promise as the King coming down through the line of David.
Luke 1:32:33
He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall **give unto him the throne of his father David**:
And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.The point being that Jesus was not born of the adamic nature, for his Father was God.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 19 2007,07:13) Quote So Yashua did not literally fulfill the prophecy that he would be a son of David? He only fulfilled it “spiritually”? What other prophecies did he not literally fulfill? There must be others, since “spiritual” fulfillment of a prophecy is acceptable in this case. No?
Whatistrue
True.
He is by Mary of the line of David. But not by the natural seed of Joseph. I meant to say Joseph instead of David.
He is of Joseph by promise as the King coming down through the line of David.
Luke 1:32:33
He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall **give unto him the throne of his father David**:
And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.The point being that Jesus was not born of the adamic nature, for his Father was God.
doesnt Mary carry your original sin?Quote doesnt Mary carry your original sin?
MSNo. Because the sin was passed down through adam.
Romans 5:12-21
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.An excerp.
What is the meaning of the virgin birth? The virgin birth was necessary in order to preserve Jesus' deity. The language of the Spirit's coming upon Mary and “overshadowing” her revealed that this baby would be a special creation whose father would be God himself. That Jesus was born apart from human fatherhood points to his divine nature as the Son of God (R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith).
The virgin birth was necessary in order to preserve Jesus' humanity. This birth was designed by God so that his eternal Son could take on the body of flesh without the tainted human nature, the inward desire to sin, that we all have inherited from Adam. He became the second Adam, man as God desired man to be before he sinned. “Therefore, He had to be made like His brethren in all things, that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people” (Hebrews 2:17). “For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin” (Hebrews 4:15). “He [God] made Him [Jesus] who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him [Jesus Christ].” (2 Corinthians 5:21) When we place our faith in him as our sin-bearer He is willing to take our sins on himself, and then imparts to us his righteousness.
The virgin birth was necessary in order to deal with the sin of humanity. The issue that breaks the relationship between God and man is sin, as we witnessed in the Garden of Eden. Adam was told that if he sinned before God he would surely die. The only way man can come back into a relationship with God is to have his sins forgiven. In the Old Testament days a sinner would come before God with a perfect and innocent lamb and offer its life blood up to God as an atonement for his sin. This was a symbolic act which looked forward to God's perfect Lamb who would take away the sin of the world and would deliver “his seed” from the power of Satan and render him powerless. The virgin birth, which perfectly preserved Jesus' deity and his humanity, provided that perfect Lamb – a lamb without blemishes (Leviticus 1:3).
Source
http://www.pbc.org/library/files/html/4383.html
Blessings
Quote (Morning Star @ Jan. 19 2007,12:43) didnt Mary come from Adam?
The whole reason the immaculate conception (of Mary) exists in order to make the same claim you are making.I personally don't believe the teaching on original sin.
Sin is not a taint we are born with. Rather, we are born into a world that is tainted. Being weak humans with little faith not one of us has a chance of sojourning through this place without letting “it” corrupt us.
Therefore, we have all received the same sentence of death as the first man who along with his wife gave their dominion over to the powers of Satan and his angels when they stepped off their thrones via sin.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 18 2007,23:36) Quote So your Messiah is not the son of David? Luke 1:32
“He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give him the throne of his father David.”Whatistrue
Are you a son of Abraham?
Jesus is the fulfillment of the Prophecies of David. He is not by the natural seed of David.
Joseph was not his Father.
Joseph may not be his literal father
however, Jesus the Messiah is most definitely of the natural seed of David! According to Scripture & in fulfillment of Scripture!!- (Mat 1:1) The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.
- (John 7:42) Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was?
- (Acts 2:29-30) Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. 30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
- (Psa 132:11) YAHWEH hath sworn in truth unto David; he will not turn from it; Of the fruit of thy body will I set upon thy throne.
- (Psa 89:3-4) I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant, 4 Thy seed will I establish for ever, and build up thy throne to all generations. Selah.
- (Acts 13:22-23) And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will. 23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:
- (Rom 1:3) Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
- (2 Tim 2:8) Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:
If there were any doubts, according to the flesh; can only have one meaning!!
Quote Joseph may not be his literal father
however, Jesus the Messiah is most definitely of the natural seed of David! According to Scripture & in fulfillment of Scripture!!(Mat 1:1) The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.
(John 7:42) Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was?
(Acts 2:29-30) Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. 30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
(Psa 132:11) YAHWEH hath sworn in truth unto David; he will not turn from it; Of the fruit of thy body will I set upon thy throne.
(Psa 89:3-4) I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant, 4 Thy seed will I establish for ever, and build up thy throne to all generations. Selah.
(Acts 13:22-23) And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will. 23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:
(Rom 1:3) Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
(2 Tim 2:8) Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:
If there were any doubts, according to the flesh; can only have one meaning!!
I guess you didnt take time to read my correction.
Are you a son of Abraham?
Jesus is the fulfillment of the Prophecies of David. He is not by the natural seed of Joseph.
Joseph was not his Father.
Quote I personally don't believe the teaching on original sin. Sin is not a taint we are born with. Rather, we are born into a world that is tainted. Being weak humans with little faith not one of us has a chance of sojourning through this place without letting “it” corrupt us.
Therefore, we have all received the same sentence of death as the first man who along with his wife gave their dominion over to the powers of Satan and his angels when they stepped off their thrones via sin.
MS
Then why would Jesus say….
Jn 10:17,18
Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.Jesus didnt have to die a natural life because of sin, Because there is no sin in him.
And besides if it dosnt matter because Jesus overcame in the flesh, then why the virgin birth?
Why not be born like us?
Rom 5:
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Death was passed down thruogh the blood line of Adam. We were concieved in sin.
Not so with Jesus.
Quote I personally don't believe the teaching on original sin. Sin is not a taint we are born with. Rather, we are born into a world that is tainted. Being weak humans with little faith not one of us has a chance of sojourning through this place without letting “it” corrupt us.
Therefore, we have all received the same sentence of death as the first man who along with his wife gave their dominion over to the powers of Satan and his angels when they stepped off their thrones via sin.
MS
BTW
Are you saying we were born perfect without sin?
And at what point were we made sinners?
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 19 2007,15:41) Quote I personally don't believe the teaching on original sin. Sin is not a taint we are born with. Rather, we are born into a world that is tainted. Being weak humans with little faith not one of us has a chance of sojourning through this place without letting “it” corrupt us.
Therefore, we have all received the same sentence of death as the first man who along with his wife gave their dominion over to the powers of Satan and his angels when they stepped off their thrones via sin.
MS
BTW
Are you saying we were born perfect without sin?
And at what point were we made sinners?
We weren't born perfect, but we weren't born a sinner.The moment we became sinners was win we first sinned.
Quote We weren't born perfect, but we weren't born a sinner. The moment we became sinners was win we first sinned.
MS
Whatever!
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 19 2007,15:37) Quote I personally don't believe the teaching on original sin. Sin is not a taint we are born with. Rather, we are born into a world that is tainted. Being weak humans with little faith not one of us has a chance of sojourning through this place without letting “it” corrupt us.
Therefore, we have all received the same sentence of death as the first man who along with his wife gave their dominion over to the powers of Satan and his angels when they stepped off their thrones via sin.
MS
Then why would Jesus say….
Jn 10:17,18
Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.Jesus didnt have to die a natural life because of sin, Because there is no sin in him.
And besides if it dosnt matter because Jesus overcame in the flesh, then why the virgin birth?
Why not be born like us?
Rom 5:
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Death was passed down thruogh the blood line of Adam. We were concieved in sin.
Not so with Jesus.
Hi W,
Was Jesus conceived in Mary in the same way John the baptist was in Elizabeth? The same greek word is used.
If so do you believe Mary was the exception in humanity being sinless? So do you believe all the myths about Mary-mother of God, queen of heaven, mediatrix for sinners etc???Quote We weren't born perfect, but we weren't born a sinner. The moment we became sinners was win we first sinned.
MS
What do you think of these scriptures?
Pss 51:5
Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.Rom 5:12
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:Quote Hi W,
Was Jesus conceived in Mary in the same way John the baptist was in Elizabeth? The same greek word is used.
If so do you believe Mary was the exception in humanity being sinless? So do you believe all the myths about Mary-mother of God, queen of heaven, mediatrix for sinners etc???NH
No. Jesus wasnt conceived in the same way because he was conceived by the Holy Spirit.
Why do you want to make his birth like everyone else. If he was born like you and I then why did God need a virgin?
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