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Quote (shimmer @ Aug. 21 2010,12:24) Hi Ed, Pre-existance,
…So yes, it seems to say the word pre-existed but was a part of God and was God. As John 1:1 says.
Hi Shimmer,I don't read imported 'opinions',
so if 'your' importing them for me, don't bother!You have inadvertently dodged this question…
“Do you believe “we” preexisted?”
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgIgnatius regarding the one faith:
Quote I have confidence of you in the Lord, that ye will be of no other mind. Wherefore I write boldly to your love, which is worthy of God, and exhort you to have but one faith, and one [kind of] preaching, and one Eucharist. For there is one flesh of the Lord Jesus Christ; and His blood which was shed for us is one; one loaf also is broken to all [the communicants], and one cup is distributed among them all: there is but one altar for the whole Church, and one bishop, with the presbytery and deacons, my fellow-servants. Since, also, there is but one unbegotten Being, God, even the Father; and one only-begotten Son, God, the Word and man; and one Comforter, the Spirit of truth; and also one preaching, and one faith, and one baptism; and one Church which the holy apostles established from one end of the earth to the other by the blood of Christ, and by their own sweat and toil; it behoves you also, therefore, as “a peculiar people, and a holy nation,” to perform all things with harmony in Christ. Quote (942767 @ Aug. 20 2010,21:15) Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 21 2010,12:06) Quote (942767 @ Aug. 20 2010,18:42) Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 21 2010,07:44) Quote (942767 @ Aug. 20 2010,13:05) Hi Kathi: You say to Shimmer:
Quote I have taken the liberty to rewrite the verses that you put up with adding the understanding of there being an unbegotten God who has a Son, the begotten God Who gave you the right to re-write these verses? Apparently, that is also what the translators who said that there was an unbegotten God did also. There is no unbegotten God.
Kathi, God is a Spirit.
Quote 18And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
20Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
Quote John 14:7If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. 8Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
10Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Quote Matthew 1:23
Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with usKathi, his name is called, not he is called Emmanuel, why? Because he obeyed God without sin even unto death on the cross. Hebrews 1 states that God was speaking to humanity through him.
Also, Jesus was not already the express image of God when he was born into this world of the virgin Mary, but he became that through obedience to the Word of God, and that is how he could say that “He who has seen me has seen the Father”.
The following scripture states that he was perfected in this world. He was not already perfect.
Quote Hebrews 5:7Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; 8Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty,
God gave us a brain…think! I'm trying to help you.As far as the word 'perfect' in Hebrews 5:9, it is in the sense of Him fulfilling His work. See the definition of the word translated as perfect, Strong's #5048:
Definition:1) to make perfect, complete
1a) to carry through completely, to accomplish, finish, bring to an end
2) to complete (perfect)
2a) add what is yet wanting in order to render a thing full
2b) to be found perfect
3) to bring to the end (goal) proposed
4) to accomplish
4a) bring to a close or fulfilment by event
4a1) of the prophecies of the scriptures
Hi Kathi:I appreciate you trying to help me, and I also am trying to help you.
What we should both want is to arrive at the truth so that we can teach the Word of God in truth.
And so, having shared what I believe to be the truth of God's Word with you, and we still disagree, my prayer to God is that he reveal the truth of His Word to us so that we may walk in unity, teaching the Word of God in truth.
My desire is God's very best for you and your family.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Hi Marty,
Good thing to pray towards. Thank you for trying to help me too. You want me to believe that Jesus was just a man…right? The problem with that is no man, no matter how righteous, can die for all the sins of mankind. Did you know that?
Hi Kathi:This is what the scriptures state:
Quote 1 Corinthians 15:19-22 (King James Version) 19If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
20But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Hi Marty,
The human nature of Christ is only a part of Him. Having the nature of man and being in flesh was necessary for Him to feel the suffering and be tempted to seek the way out of suffering. He also has the divine nature that allowed Him to manifest the nature of the Father to mankind and be the perfect sacrifice acceptable to God. See this passage about how God does not accept a righteous man's sacrifice for another man's sins:Quote Deut 24:16
16 “Fathers shall not be put to death for their sons, nor shall sons be put to death for their fathers; everyone shall be put to death for his own s
in.
NASUEzek 18:7-20
7 if a man does not oppress anyone, but restores to the debtor his pledge, does not commit robbery, but gives his bread to the hungry and covers the naked with clothing,
8 if he does not lend money on interest or take increase, if he keeps his hand from iniquity and executes true justice between man and man,
9 if he walks in My statutes and My ordinances so as to deal faithfully — he is righteous and will surely live,” declares the Lord God.
10 “Then he may have a violent son who sheds blood and who does any of these things to a brother
11 (though he himself did not do any of these things), that is, he even eats at the mountain shrines, and defiles his neighbor's wife,
12 oppresses the poor and needy, commits robbery, does not restore a pledge, but lifts up his eyes to the idols and commits abomination,
13 he lends money on interest and takes increase; will he live? He will not live! He has committed all these abominations, he will surely be put to death; his blood will be on his own head.
14 “Now behold, he has a son who has observed all his father's sins which he committed, and observing does not do likewise.
15 “He does not eat at the mountain shrines or lift up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, or defile his neighbor's wife,
16 or oppress anyone, or retain a pledge, or commit robbery, but he gives his bread to the hungry and covers the naked with clothing,
17 he keeps his hand from the poor, does not take interest or increase, but executes My ordinances, and walks in My statutes; he will not die for his father's iniquity, he will surely live.
18 “As for his father, because he practiced extortion, robbed his brother and did what was not good among his people, behold, he will die for his iniquity.
19 “Yet you say, 'Why should the son not bear the punishment for the father's iniquity?' When the son has practiced justice and righteousness and has observed all My statutes and done them, he shall surely live.
20 “The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father's iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son's iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself.
NASUHi Kathi:
The scripture states that Jesus is a man, no, not just any man, he is the Son of the living God, but nevertheless he is a man. That is what the scripture states, and so, please do not try to tell me different than that.
I know that no man born of the sperm of man has ever obeyed God without sin even unto death. He cannot even save himself because of sin.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ Aug. 21 2010,14:42) Hi Kathi: The scripture states that Jesus is a man, no, not just any man, he is the Son of the living God, but nevertheless he is a man. That is what the scripture states, and so, please do not try to tell me different than that.
I know that no man born of the sperm of man has ever obeyed God without sin even unto death. He cannot even save himself because of sin.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Are you telling Kathi what to believe? Are you for real?
?
Give me a break……Learn from Her because She is right. Jesus was the firstborn of all creation, it according to Scriptures…. Col. 1:15 and Rev. 3:14 read it…Jesus is Son of man and Son of God. Earthly and Heavenly….. He came down from heaven John 6:38….. Peace IreneQuote (Ed J @ Aug. 21 2010,14:33) Quote (shimmer @ Aug. 21 2010,12:24) Hi Ed, Pre-existance,
…So yes, it seems to say the word pre-existed but was a part of God and was God. As John 1:1 says.
Hi Shimmer,I don't read imported 'opinions',
so if 'your' importing them for me, don't bother!You have inadvertently dodged this question…
“Do you believe “we” preexisted?”
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Hi Ed,You are right, it is just someones opinion, so I agree with you there,
Pre-existance of us ? No, I don't believe in that.
Don't reply here on this thread though, ok Ed, I'm becoming too confused !
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Aug. 15 2010,07:40) No! You are the one gurgitating “pure nonsense.” Wisdom is called “she” and a “woman” in chapter 9. It's figurative dude! Use the mind God gave you! the Roo
Roo if you used the mind that God gave you would notice that Wisdom is then called the Workman at his side.So it is talking of wisdom as an attribute or quality and then as a workman that was with God when God created all things. On the outset, that is suspiciously like Christ/Word whom God made all things through. Also if you look closely, you will see that wisdom was given birth.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Compare with The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works” and “I was appointed from eternity, from the beginning, before the world began”.Proverbs 8 22-23 5 For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father Or again, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son”
6 And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all God's angels worship him.”
Compare with “When there were no oceans, I was given birth”.Proverbs 8:24
Colossians 1:15-16
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
Compare with “Then I was the craftsman at his side. I was filled with delight day after day, rejoicing always in his presence,”. Proverbs 8:30Shimmer,
Edj is leading you off line.
The 'We' he is refering to are the 'Elect of God'. The 'We' who are 'Chosen before time' by God.
This is why JustAskin suggests that when referring to them (the Elders, the Disciple, Apostles, the Saints) the 'We' should be quoted so as to make it an explicit reference to them.
When referring to ourselves, it should be referenced as: 'with the hope, not the promise'.
How many times does someone write, 'When we become begotten of God', 'when we go to Heaven', 'God/Jesus says we are saved…'?
The writer, here, is referring to what was spoken of to the 'elected', those of the 'chosen before time'.
The writer, here, has made a 'forced adoption', an invalid adoption, 'sneaked in [unawares?] under the wings of the Almighty and of Jesus' but they will be flushed out because God and Jesus knows his own.Shimmer, never claim to be saved. Never claim that you are going to Heaven. Never claim that you are a Son (…Daughter…) of God, except by also stating, 'by Faith, with the hope' …'God willing', or similar, lest you make yourself your own saviour!!
Shimmer, do not entertain this nonesense but only learn from it and understand when one standing off the path says to you,'hey little girl, I got something for you!' that you should run like …the wind… away from him.
Shimmer, stop being confused… Seek advice if you are unsure of which of two or more paths to take at a juncture. Read the signposts carefully.
The remit to 'Take the RIGHT ROAD' does not necessarily mean to go down the road that the signpost hand shows 'RIGHT' on because that is merely a first person directional indicator. If you were standing behind it, then 'Right' would be on your LEFT… (now you can be confused!)Here is a call for wisdom. But whichever you choose, don't select the road that says 'Undecided'.
'Undecide' leads to 'procrastination', faithlessness. Jesus say to one of the Churches (book of Revelation), 'You are lukewarm. Oh that you were either Hot or Cold, for lukewarm is bitter and makes one throw up' (my paraphrase) Why? Understand what Jesus means by 'Hot' and 'Cold' [for his testament]. Lukewarm is 'undecided', and the undecided cannot be relied on. They say ,'yeh' today, and, 'ney' tomorrow. At least you know he that is cold for gospel and can deal appropriately.Quote (JustAskin @ Aug. 21 2010,20:21) Shimmer, Edj is leading you off line.
Hi JustAskin,Matt.7:1-2 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged:
and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgJustAskin,
I was confused at all the different opinions, I had never before thought about all of these things, I knew Jesus was the son of God, who came down from Heaven, and that was all I needed to know, and that the words which he spoke were for us to learn by. But everyone is talking about all these other things, that's why I said to Ed not to answer me here on this thread, so I can stop reading and move onto easier things.
But thank you for that advice, I appreciate it.
Edj,
We all judge… You are judging me now…
Eat your own tastey quote and try to eschew it's bitterness in your stomach.
Is my post false? No! so why the warning quote?
Quote (JustAskin @ Aug. 21 2010,21:06) Edj, We all judge… You are judging me now…
Eat your own tastey quote and try to eschew it's bitterness in your stomach.
Is my post false? No! so why the warning quote?
Hi JustAskin,Looks like 'your' seeing 'your' own reflection in me; don't like what you see?
James 1:23-24 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer,
he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: For
he beholdeth himself (Psalm 18:25-27), and goeth his way,
and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.Psalm 18:25-27 With the merciful thou(YHVH) will show thyself merciful;
with an upright man thou(YHVH) will show thyself upright; With the pure
thou(YHVH) will show thyself pure; and with the froward thou(YHVH) will show
thyself froward. For thou will save the afflicted people; but wilt bring down high looks.Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (Isaiah 27:4-5 / Isaiah 54:17)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (JustAskin @ Aug. 21 2010,21:06) Edj, We all judge… You are judging me now…
Eat your own tastey quote and try to eschew it's bitterness in your stomach.
Is my post false? No! so why the warning quote?
(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Edit)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Hi JustAskin,Looks like you're seeing 'your' own reflection in me; don't like what you see?
James 1:23-24 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer,
he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: For
he beholdeth himself (Psalm 18:25-27), and goeth his way,
and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.Psalm 18:25-27 With the merciful thou(YHVH) will show thyself merciful;
with an upright man thou(YHVH) will show thyself upright; With the pure
thou(YHVH) will show thyself pure; and with the froward thou(YHVH) will show
thyself froward. For thou will save the afflicted people; but wilt bring down high looks.Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (Isaiah 27:4-5 / Isaiah 54:17)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgedj,
Very sad. If you think that quoting Scripture out of context is worthy then i repeat, 'Very Sad'.
Quote (JustAskin @ Aug. 21 2010,22:38) edj, Very sad. If you think that quoting Scripture out of context is worthy then i repeat, 'Very Sad'.
Hi JustAskinJer.23:28-29 …he that hath my word, let him speak my word faithfully.
What is the chaff to the wheat? saith the LORD. Is not my word like as
a fire? saith the LORD; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (JustAskin @ Aug. 22 2010,07:16) edj, Excellent. Have you taken over from Nick Hassan?
Hi JustAskin,You wanted to become a moderator, isn't that what you did? (Psalm 18:25-27)
ed j (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Baker @ Aug. 21 2010,16:18) Are you telling Kathi what to believe? Are you for real? ?
Give me a break……
That wasn't nessesary I feel Marty deserves an apology.Quote (Baker @ Aug. 21 2010,15:18) Quote (942767 @ Aug. 21 2010,14:42) Hi Kathi: The scripture states that Jesus is a man, no, not just any man, he is the Son of the living God, but nevertheless he is a man. That is what the scripture states, and so, please do not try to tell me different than that.
I know that no man born of the sperm of man has ever obeyed God without sin even unto death. He cannot even save himself because of sin.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Are you telling Kathi what to believe? Are you for real??
Give me a break……Learn from Her because She is right. Jesus was the firstborn of all creation, it according to Scriptures…. Col. 1:15 and Rev. 3:14 read it…Jesus is Son of man and Son of God. Earthly and Heavenly….. He came down from heaven John 6:38….. Peace Irene
Hi Irene:No, I am not telling her what to believe nor am I telling you what to believe, but it seems that you are telling me that I must believe as you do because “you are right” and cannot possibly be wrong on this issue.
I pray to God every day to correct me if I am teaching anything that is not His Word or doing anything that is not His will, and He has indeed corrected me on many occasions because any Father that loves His children will correct them.
I have given both you and Kathi my understanding regarding this issue which is all that I can do. If you do not agree with me, teach what you believe to be the truth. Both you and I will be accountable to God for what we teach.
Love in Christ,
Marty
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