Prophet Hawking

Participant

Quote (Stu @ Oct. 01 2010,14:19)

Isaiah 22:18 He will surely violently turn and toss thee like a ball (Duwr) into a large country: there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house.

Isaiah 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle (chûgh or chuwg) of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in

That’s circle as in something scribed with a compass.

Stuart

Hi Stuart,

The truth does not fear an investigation!
There is NO “W” sound in The Hebrew;
did you get that from an Atheist site?

Are you implying that if a less accurate word was used
in Isaiah 40:22, you would then be a believer in God's existence?

Hebrew #1754 Ball: דּוּר (dur) dure: from 1752 a circle, ball or pile:-
ball, turn, round about, to gyrate (or move in a circle), to remain:-dwell.

Hebrew #2329 Circle: חוּג (chug) khoog: from 2328 circle, circuit, compass,
to describe a circle:-compass, to move in a circle, to revolve.

Your Atheist friends are not as smart as my God! (Isaiah 55:8-9)
You now just Lost round 3 as well; do feel free to try again!

Do you enjoy discussing something that you believe doesn't exist?
Try Posting some of the Atheist's perceived inconsistencies,
and I will explain them to your Agnosticness.

Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

October 1, 2010 at 5:25 am#218328

Participant

Is adding vowel sounds to Hebrew only something christians are allowed to do?

I just gave you the “proof” you required. Isaiah really meant that the earth is a circle, not a ball.

End of discussion on the point Ed.

Stuart

October 1, 2010 at 6:32 am#218331

Participant

Quote (Stu @ Oct. 01 2010,16:25)

Is adding vowel sounds to Hebrew only something christians are allowed to do?

I just gave you the “proof” you required. Isaiah really meant that the earth is a circle, not a ball.

End of discussion on the point Ed.

Stuart

Hi Stuart,

The word you offer also applies to a pile of rocks;
You see the connection to the pile of rocks; don't you Stuart?

The correctly used word in Isaiah 40:22 means a circle revolving;
hey that's exactly what the Earth does! It is round and it revolves!

And the universe is also expanding, something else I proved to you by Scripture!

Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

October 1, 2010 at 7:03 am#218333

Participant

Hi Stuart,

The fossil record…

Enjoy!

October 1, 2010 at 7:11 pm#218342

bodhitharta

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 01 2010,17:32)

Quote (Stu @ Oct. 01 2010,16:25)

Is adding vowel sounds to Hebrew only something christians are allowed to do?

I just gave you the “proof” you required. Isaiah really meant that the earth is a circle, not a ball.

End of discussion on the point Ed.

Stuart

Hi Stuart,

The word you offer also applies to a pile of rocks;
You see the connection to the pile of rocks; don't you Stuart?

The correctly used word in Isaiah 40:22 means a circle revolving;
hey that's exactly what the Earth does! It is round and it revolves!

And the universe is also expanding, something else I proved to you by Scripture!

Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

And He it is Who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. They float, each in an orbit.
( سورة الأنبياء , Al-Anbiya, Chapter #21, Verse #33)

It is not for the sun to overtake the moon, nor doth the night outstrip the day. They float each in an orbit.
( سورة يس , Ya Seen, Chapter #36, Verse #40)

ED this is also proof to you that the Quran is from God.

It was certainly not known then that the Sun has an orbit

Behold! his Lord said to him: “Bow (thy will to Me):” He said: “I bow (my will) to the Lord and Cherisher of the universe.”
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #131)

Praise be to Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds;
( سورة الفاتحة , Al-Fatiha, Chapter #1, Verse #2)

Notice the term “worlds”

Your Guardian-Lord is Allah, Who created the heavens and the earth in six days, and is firmly established on the throne (of authority): He draweth the night as a veil o'er the day, each seeking the other in rapid succession: He created the sun, the moon, and the stars, (all) governed by laws under His command. Is it not His to create and to govern? Blessed be Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds!
( سورة الأعراف , Al-Araf, Chapter #7, Verse #54)

Notice the term “laws”

This was certainly not revealed in the Bible so no one taught this to Muhammad but God through Gabriel

It is He Who has let free the two bodies of flowing water: One palatable and sweet, and the other salt and bitter; yet has He made a barrier between them, a partition that is forbidden to be passed.
( سورة الفرقان , Al-Furqan, Chapter #25, Verse #53)

This is scientifically known as Estuary how would Muhammad know this living in the middle of the desert? Ed you want to convice STU with methods you don't agree with yourself as proof, otherwise you should repent for speaking wrongly about God and those HE has sent.

[071.016]and hath made the moon a light therein, and made the sun a lamp?

We all know now with space exploration that the sun is our source of light and that the moon acts as a reflector for the sun

[024.045] Allah hath created every animal of water. Of them is (a kind) that goes upon its belly and (a kind) that goes upon two legs and (a kind) that that walk on four. Allah creates what he wills. Verily Allah is able to do all things.

We know that modern health and medicine has discovered that we are truly made up of more water then anything else in our body.

[057.025] we sent aforetime. Our messengers with Clear Signs and sent down with them the book and the balance between right at wrong, that men may stand forth in justice; and we sent down iron, in which is great might, as well as many benefits for mankind

The phrase “sent down” in this ayah tells us that iron came from the sky. Modern astronomy tells us that the iron found on this planet came down from the sky from stars in outer space. Even the iron core in the center of the Earth was not made on earth. It could not even have been formed in our solar system.

ED when will you believe?

[96.016] the lying, sinful forelock! (front of the head)

The Quran refers to the transgressors, those who consider themselves self sufficient. Those who refused to let Muhammad (pbuh) pray in the Ka'bah. The Quran says that if they do not stop that they will snatch them by the lying, sinful front of the head. Today studies show that the prefrontal area of the head is the control center for motivation and the foresight to plan.

ED, When will you believe?

12- It is God who created the seven heavens and of the earth the same number. The commands flow among them that you may know that God has power over everything and everything is held within the knowledge of God.
65-Divorce, 12

The 12th verse of sura 65 mentions the seven heavens and as many layers in the earth. We already saw that the seven layers of the heavens were in perfect harmony with each other, each performing its duty impeccably. The 12th verse of the 65th sura establishes a similarity between the heavens and the earth.

Our earth is also stratified as the heavens are, and our life on earth depends on these layers. In the Arabic community of the Prophet’s time, the surface of the earth was an expanse full of mystery. The knowledge prevalent at the time did not permit man to have an inkling of the stratigraphy. The fact that the statement in the Quran of the atmospheric layers is almost a replica of this stratification of the earth is another miracle.

ED, when will you believe?

43- Do not you see that God drives the clouds, then joins them together, then piles them on each other, then you see the rain comes forth from between them. And He sends down hail from the sky, where there are mountains of it. And strikes those with it whom He will and diverts it from whomever He wills. The vivid flash of its lightning nearly blinds the sight.
24-The Light, 43

Water is life. The greater portion of water that is the basic need for the living beings on earth is in continuous motion and transformation. The uninterrupted sequence of these successive transformations is referred to as cycling. Water is always present in the air. It goes without saying that this state of water differs from its state in the seas and rivers. The formation of clouds by water in the state of vapor, the transformation of these clouds into rainwater and their falling upon the earth as precipitation are the result of God’s impeccable cycling system. More than 1400 years ago, the Quran began to draw our attention to the facts that today can be established only by the help of satellites. Scientists studied types of clouds and established that they were the consequence of well-designed systems and stages. Meteorologists examined the cumulonimbus clouds. The stages they described tallied with the process described in the sura The Light, verse 43.

1- Clouds move thanks to winds: The fact that the wind is the primary cause in the process of the formation of clouds that generates rain is depicted in the sura, The Romans, verse 46 (In the previous chapter, we saw the role played by wind in the formation of clouds).

2- Joining:
Then the small clouds combine to form a single large cloud.

3- Piles them on each other: When the small clouds join together, updrafts within the larger cloud increase. The updrafts near the center of the cloud are stronger than those near the edges. These updrafts cause the cloud body to grow vertically, so the cloud is stacked up. This vertical growth causes the cloud body to stretch into cooler regions of the atmosphere where drops of water and hail formulate. When these drops of water and hail become too heavy for the updrafts to support them, they begin to fall from the cloud as rain, hail, etc.

when will you believe ED?

October 1, 2010 at 8:36 pm#218346

JustAskin

Participant

Princess,
Can I ask why you have not PM'd me yet?

What is it that you are afraid of?

It is your birthday…give a gift, not expect a gift.

Be good today
Raise your play
Do as I say – if you may
Why DON'T you PM me, eh?

October 1, 2010 at 9:46 pm#218350

Participant

Quote (Stu @ Oct. 01 2010,09:59)

It never would. The apes in question are just codifying the language that is a useful adaptation for them.

You missed the point.

If our universe by a series of astronomical odds came out the way it did, then you can only surmise that it was designed by an intelligence beyond the universe itself, or that it got that way because all the other odds that would have ended in failure didn't happen.

Now take those 2 monkeys. They failed right. And they will always fail.

That brings me to another thing. If our universe succeeded in sticking around, and even producing life on it's own, then to justify those impossible odds we might have to introduce a theory whereby there are an infinite amount of universes that spawn in a greater construct and they all failed, but by sheer numbers we are the universe that succeeded. Our universe is the Goldilocks Universe. (Of course for now we will just ignore how that larger construct got there.)

What is my point?

You have to dream up wild and weird theories as to how the universe got here, because to have got here on its own and to have succeeded without the aid of intelligence is the greatest miracle of all. In fact it is so great that it is actually impossible and requires the most belief power to believe in because there is nothing supporting this hypothesis.

I have also noticed that you seem ignorant of all this and just seem to be happy to accept that the universe is and that there is no God, even though your whole belief system is founded on ignorance and bias.

Of course you are allowed to be ignorant and biased. So long as we call it what it is. While we are also aloud to look at the facts, truth, and options, and make a fair assessment. BTW, I am happy too.

October 1, 2010 at 9:49 pm#218351

Participant

Quote (Stu @ Oct. 01 2010,16:25)

Is adding vowel sounds to Hebrew only something christians are allowed to do?

I just gave you the “proof” you required. Isaiah really meant that the earth is a circle, not a ball.

End of discussion on the point Ed.

Stuart

The Earth is both a circle and a sphere. The Earth has a circumference. It is assumed that the Earth is not limited to 2 dimensions. That is not up for debate by anyone.

October 1, 2010 at 9:54 pm#218352

Participant

Quote (Stu @ Oct. 01 2010,09:59)

Swapped the order this time: unsupported assertion is followed by religious platitude.

Actually you should try this.

Go to an Atheist conference of some kind and stand up and say to the audience, “the total amount of energy in the universe is zero, therefore God is not needed”. Watch the audience clap wildly as they say in their hearts, “I knew there wasn't a God, thank God for that, now I have absolute proof”. After this, they should feel more comfort as their belief system shuts out the truth. They will be even more blissfully ignorant.

My point, many do not think things through and just grab onto things that they want to hear.

2 Timothy 4:3
For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

October 1, 2010 at 9:56 pm#218353

Participant

Stu, you don't know when you have been beat.
But carry on playing the game even though you are 25 nil down.
It will give some of us more goal practice.

October 1, 2010 at 10:14 pm#218355

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-transitional/part2a.html

Participant

Re: Strobel video

This Strobel is another lying creationist, although he is not even a very sophisticated liar. Of course he doesn't substantiate his own claims, he just makes assertions without backing them up.

His lies in this video:

“Lack of evidence for Darwin's claim that there is a common origin to all life”
This is an amateur lie by Strobel. Does he take his audience for idiots? Perhaps he is just playing on their genuine ignorance. How dishonest is that?

I already gave you the fact that all life uses DNA, and the fact that the only reasonable explanation for the patterns of appearance of the same retroviruses in the same chromosomes in different species is common ancestry. I also mentioned that the differences in DNA sequences in between living species match differences in the morphology of dated fossils. This is only a fraction of the evidence, but this evidence on its own puts it beyond question.

“Microevolution says there is variation between different kinds of animals” (like lost of different kinds / varieties of dogs)”
Microevolution is an idea invented by creationists. Real science does not make any such distinctions, because there is none.

“Science has failed to substantiate Darwin's claims of macroevolution”
“Future discoveries have not borne out Darwin's theory”
Science has tried in vain to disprove Darwin. There is at least one lucrative Nobel Prize and the astonishment of the world to motivate the scientist who can do it. None has, and especially none of the unnamed “skeptical scientists” from his long list of universities. They talk the talk but apparently all they have is religiously-motivated “skepticism”, certainly no evidence.

Actually, every discovery made has fitted perfectly into the framework provided by Darwin. He had no idea about DNA, genes, mutation and heredity, and yet they provide the mechanism for exactly what he described. The discovery that t8 used to go on about, that of Piltdown Man, is an example of Darwin's theory being used to predict Piltdown would turn out to be a forgery, which it was when the techniques became available some decades later. There is no disproof of Darwin, and Strobel certainly hasn't provided one. All he has done is talk empty words through a big mouth.

“The fossil record shows the 40 phyla…sprang forth without transitional forms preceeding them”
Not true. Let's be generous and guess that he is talking about the Cambrian Explosion. This was a period about 500 million years ago when many new species left fossils, apparently without their ancestors leaving fossils. The Cambrian Explosion does not consist of the magic appearance of new species, it is the appearance of species that have hard body parts that can leave fossils. There were ancestors, but they did not leave much in the way of remains. Lack of fossils is not evidence of lack of living things.

“There's no evidence of the gradual evolution that Darwin predicted”
“Should be millions of transitory fossils between bats and whales”
Why should there be? This is a classic dishonest creationist ploy. Pick a lineage and criticise the number of gaps. Then a new transitional fossil is found, and the new criticism is that now there are two gaps! Make up a ridiculous number and claim you should find that many fossils. Fossils are incredibly rare, but nevertheless there are many well-documented sequences of transitional fossils, some of them even showing probable direct lines of ancestry. Strobel's lie this time derives from the assumption that the number of fossils known 80 years ago is the same as the number known today. Check out the talkorigins page on mammal fossils. Of course it covers the other kinds on other pages on their website too. It includes an honest list of how good the fossil evidence is for each period. Don't forget that evolution by natural selection does not actually rely on fossil evidence at all for its validity.

“This is science versus science”
It is science versus liars. Why does Strobel feel he has to lie? Is that what his god demands he do?

By the way, even the title of the video is a lie.

Stuart

October 2, 2010 at 12:19 am#218359

JustAskin

Participant

Stu,
The walkin' talkin' dawkin' was part of a 'sciency' program aimed at immature people who watch half baked tv around 7:30pm in the uk.
We have women in semi porno mode 'presenting' with a male on a couch. They sit extremely close together and the camera is at a low angle upwards…get the picture. Man has just come home and wife is in the kitchen….
Already, two presenters have 'made off together' because of such 'close working partnership'.

So, what can be expected then of the material they are presenting: Candyfloss Science, Sugared Reality, Sweetend Truths for the 'less discerning'. And 'the walkin' was one such presentation.

October 2, 2010 at 1:07 am#218362

Participant

Quote (Stu @ Oct. 02 2010,09:14)

His lies in this video:

By the way, even the title of the video is a lie.

Stuart

HI Stuart,

DNA: Proof of God's existence…

Enjoy!

October 2, 2010 at 1:23 am#218363

Participant

Quote (Stu @ Oct. 02 2010,09:14)

His lies in this video:

Stuart

HI Stuart,

Do these people lie in this video as well?

Enjoy!

October 2, 2010 at 2:55 am#218371

princess of the king

Participant

Quote (Stu @ Oct. 01 2010,10:03)

Quote (princess of the king @ Sep. 30 2010,21:31)

Stuart,

Do me a favor today, today is my birthday I am 39 (again) and since I am the princess, I ask things of the ones that are special to me.

Good thoughts, good deeds and good words from you today to all that you meet, know and converse with.

Extra hugs/kisses for the ones you love, extra treats for your cat.

Take care of yourself big ape, randomly I love you.

PofthK

One more thing Stuart, if you can manage it, buy flowers for a women you do not care for very much.

Well off to work, some of us cannot hang out in the trees all day, swinging from vines.

I think you should declare a public holiday, and expect birthday greeting from all your subjects, to which I add mine!

I think if you were to be given your birthday off, then there are worse ways to spend it than hanging out in trees!

Stuart

Thank you Stuart.

October 2, 2010 at 3:01 am#218372

princess of the king

Participant

Quote (JustAskin @ Oct. 02 2010,07:36)

Princess,
Can I ask why you have not PM'd me yet?

What is it that you are afraid of?

It is your birthday…give a gift, not expect a gift.

Be good today
Raise your play
Do as I say – if you may
Why DON'T you PM me, eh?

Cute J,

How did you know that I give on my birthday? Strange.

Stuart, is the only one I asked anything from.

Why do you want to know me so
You keep telling me give it a go
Nothing to hide
Only to seek

Let me think about it for one more week.

October 2, 2010 at 3:12 am#218374

Participant

Quote (JustAskin @ Oct. 02 2010,11:19)

So, what can be expected then of the material they are presenting: Candyfloss Science, Sugared Reality, Sweetend Truths for the 'less discerning'. And 'the walkin' was one such presentation.

I have seen the same kind of thing myself, and I have seen Dawkins do similar shows. Neither the host nor much of the audience has a chance of understanding what he is saying so they make attempts at comedy instead. I guess there is a minimum requirement of attention and preparation in your audience when you are trying to explain science. I believe Richard Feynman was asked once to explain his Nobel Prize-winning work in under three minutes, to which he replied if you could explain it in under three minutes it would not be worth a Nobel Prize.

Stuart

October 2, 2010 at 3:47 am#218378

Participant

Re: Strobel video 2

Fewer lies, just special pleading and logical mistakes this time. The title of this one is as much a lie as the title of the last one was.

“We are learning the language in which god created life” -Clinton
Religious platitude from the president of a nation that could never bring itself to elect an atheist. Did Clinton believe what he was saying, or was it a statement for the guns ‘n’ religion crowd?

“Nature by itself can’t produce information”
Why not? Just because it can produce patterns does not mean information cannot arise from nature. Another unsupported assertion.

“Wherever we see information we know there is intelligence behind it”
Here Stobel is committing what is known as the logical fallacy of composition. You will see a record of t8 doing something similar in a thread here. One of t8’s tactics is to say that only a fool would say that a house has no designer and that goes for people too. Actually it is a fact that houses do have designers, but that does not mean that people are designed. Still, to the gullible I’m sure it sounds convincing. It is a con trick though. When we see the information in a computer programme we know that a programmer has coded it, but when we see the information in DNA we should not make any assumption. After all, computer programmes are not coded in replicating molecues that can have errors which make slightly different proteins.

“I believe we are looking at some of the most powerful evidence that there must be an intelligence behind life”
You can believe what you like mate. Maybe someone has already tried the same con trick on you, and you are just replicating it!

“Plenty of evidence from 20th Century science to know that full well”
But Strobel is not going to tell us what he things that “plenty of evidence” is. Big mouth, little brain unfortunately.

“(Strobels nanotechnologist friend) stands in awe of god because of what he has done through his creation”
Unsupported assertion. He can stand in awe of whatever imaginary being he wants, that is no reason to think it exists.

“Only a rookie would say that science takes away from faith”
In the 19th Century Darwin’s science was a major reason for many to abandon religious faith. For some, the only thing that caused them to retain their belief in a god was that they simply could not fathom how the complexity of life could arise by natural processes. To say that science has not been completely corrosive to religious faith would be naïve.

“If you really study science it will bring you closer to god”
I’ve really studied science and it is not true for me. Can you name anyone you know for whom this is true? Not sure what difference it makes to science.

“Science when done right points towards god.”
This is called the “no true Scotsman” fallacy. It’s actually saying that if you do not feel properly pointed towards your Imaginary Friend when doing science then you are not doing it properly. Can you see why that is a nonsense?

Ed, I assume that because you are not really answering the points I have made you are accepting that these videos are based on lies and deceit as I am suggesting?

Stuart

October 2, 2010 at 3:51 am#218382

Participant

I'm not going to watch your faith healing video until we have dealt with Strobel and the subjects we have already begun discussing. I say discussing, but it seems to involve you linking to creationist videos and me debunking them. Do you have anything original of your own to add, or are you just going to do what you accused me of doing, running to christian apologist websites to keep up a torrent of nonsense religious material that attacks real science that you yourself do not really understand?

Stuart

October 2, 2010 at 4:36 am#218387