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Camilli’.
How can you say that this has already happened?
Zechariah 14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
THE DAY OF THE LORD FOR BATTLE HAS NOT COME.
Zechariah 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
JESUS FIRST COMING WAS NOT TO BATTLE; BUT TO PREACH.
Zechariah 14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
THIS IS OF THE SECOND COMING.WHEN HE COMES TO DO BATTLE.
Zechariah 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
THIS HAS NOT HAPPENED.
False prophets saying; he is here or there:
Many false prophets have predicted the second coming, but failed badly. Many are still doing this.The coming in secret:
The sleepers will not know when the Lord is coming; because they are spiritually asleep.
He can also come when one is asleep and not wake. Died before the coming.
But the ones that are alive at the coming will know exactly
when He is coming, because they have understood the prophesies.(see rev 11.) And can tell the difference between the false and the true Christ. The false Christ will rule first; for only 3/half years.wakeup.
9:17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.
Revelation 9:18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
This is the war of man against man.(the 3rd ww).
Revelation 18:9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,
Revelation 18:10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.
Revelation 18:11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:
Revelation 18:16 And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!
Revelation 18:17 For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,
Revelation 18:18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!IF BY THE DEESTROYING OF BABYLON THE GREAT; WILL BE THE MELTING OF THE EARTH.
HOW CAN THOSE MERCHANTS STILL WATCH THEIR CITY BURNING?
WHY IS THERE ONLY 0NE THIRD OF THE EARTH KILLED?(REV.9:18).wakeup.
9:17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone. Revelation 9:18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths. This is the war of man against man.(the 3rd ww). Revelation 18:9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning, Revelation 18:10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come. Revelation 18:11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more: Revelation 18:16 And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls! Revelation 18:17 For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off, Revelation 18:18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city! IF BY THE DESTROYING OF BABYLON THE GREAT; WILL BE THE MELTING OF THE EARTH. HOW CAN THOSE MERCHANTS STILL WATCH THEIR CITY BURNING? WHY IS THERE ONLY ONE THIRD OF THE EARTH KILLED?(REV.9:18). wakeup.
Journey,
So if I understand you rightly, Jesus will return, some people will be destroyed, a kingdom will be set up in Jerusalem, there will be gates around Jerusalem, and people on the outside will go in to worship. People will multiply and die, and this will last a thousand years.
Camillia
Many will be destroyed at the coming, not a few.
Yes the kingdom will be set up in Jerusalem.Psalms 102:21 To declare the name of the LORD in Zion, and his praise in Jerusalem;
Psalms 135:21 Blessed be the LORD out of Zion, which dwelleth at Jerusalem. Praise ye the LORD.
Psalms 147:2 The LORD doth build up Jerusalem: he gathereth together the outcasts of Israel.
Isaiah 24:23 Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion
, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriouslyWhen I say the gates of Jerusalem, I mean the boundaries, and yes people on the outside will go in to worship;
Jeremiah 3:17 At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of the LORD; and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of the LORD, to Jerusalem: neither shall they walk any more after the imagination of their evil heart.
Jeremiah 33:13 In the cities of the mountains, in the cities of the vale, and in the cities of the south, and in the land of Benjamin, and in the places about Jerusalem, and in the cities of Judah, shall the flocks pass again under the hands of him that telleth them, saith the LORD.
Micah 4:2 And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
Yes, during the 1000 years people will die because they are flesh;
Isaiah 65:20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.
Ezekiel 36:11 And I will multiply upon you man and beast; and they shall increase and bring fruit: and I will settle you after your old estates, and will do better unto you than at your beginnings: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
Isaiah 2:2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD’S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
Trouble is, I don’t see this anywhere in the New Testament. Where is it mentioned? Nowhere.
Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Revelation 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. (Israel)Revelation 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
This is that place, that kingdom area with boundaries that will exist in the 1000 years, …”the camp of the saints”.
This is where Christ is ruling from with his saints, and this is where Israel in the flesh are dwelling…
What scripture does mention is the HEAVENLY JERUSALEM, and I have posted verses to support that many times.
Revelation 21:10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
This great city, is what we have been dwelling in spiritually. We can see it with our spirit, but not with our eyes. We know it exists. It’s not a real city made up of buildings, but a city made up of truth, and this city contains all of God’s teachings which is his truth,.. his true doctrine. When Christ returns, this city he brings with him, (the true doctrine) will manifest, and be heard on earth. This city (the teachings) will become a real city, a well structured teaching facility with a population dwelling in it to teach. This city of truth will be a mirror image of heaven where truth and peace dwells. A King will rule this city, and his saints who took part in the first resurrection will receive it as an inheritance. The Jews will be brought into this city, in the flesh, to dwell only but it will be for an inheritance to them, to claim at the 2nd resurrection after their training in the truth has been accomplished. The real city that comes down from heaven, is that true doctrine, and she will produce children. All will worship the King. Jerusalem will be a paradise, a safe haven and a refuge. All will be taught one truth in the City of Peace, and in turn Israel will teach the gentiles living outside this city.
This is what Christ will bring down with him on his return. This is the teachings, the true doctrine which will be brought down and set up here on earth, for the Jews have not received it prior, nor the gentiles that survive Armageddon, only the saints who followed the Lamb. Now the world must receive it. One truth.
Psalms 96:10 Say among the heathen that the LORD reigneth: the world also shall be established that it shall not be moved: he shall judge the people righteously.
Isaiah 49:8 Thus saith the LORD, In an acceptable time have I heard thee, and in a day of salvation have I helped thee: and I will preserve thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, to establish the earth, to cause to inherit the desolate heritages;
Isaiah 62:7 And give him no rest, till he establish, and till he make Jerusalem a praise in the earth.
Jeremiah 30:20 Their children also shall be as aforetime, and their congregation shall be established before me, and I will punish all that oppress them.
Ezekiel 16:60 Nevertheless I will remember my covenant with thee in the days of thy youth, and I will establish unto thee an everlasting covenant.
Ezekiel 16:62 And I will establish my covenant with thee; and thou shalt know that I am the LORD:
Hi Journey and Wakeup.
I have presented to you scriptures from the New Testament, EXCLUDING Revelations which is open to too many personal interpretations due to its symbolic nature, and also excluding the Old Testament because I feel most of the Old Testament has been fulfilled in Jesus Christ.
I was hoping we could stick to just the scriptures I presented, but obviously you wish to … branch away into other areas.
I am grateful to God for showing me what He has shown me, and I am also happy to find millions of others who see things the same, including the Eastern Orthodox and Lutherans.
Just to answer a few of your statements, and I wish to leave it there for now.
Yes, during the 1000 years people will die because they are flesh;
Now, present time.
Zechariah 14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
THE DAY OF THE LORD FOR BATTLE HAS NOT COME.
Zechariah 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
JESUS FIRST COMING WAS NOT TO BATTLE; BUT TO PREACH.
Zechariah 14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
THIS IS OF THE SECOND COMING.WHEN HE COMES TO DO BATTLE.
Zechariah 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
THIS HAS NOT HAPPENED.
This has happened.
Jesus’ first coming and the destruction of Jerusalem in 70ad.The coming in secret:
The sleepers will not know when the Lord is coming; because they are spiritually asleep.
He can also come when one is asleep and not wake. Died before the coming.
But the ones that are alive at the coming will know exactly
when He is coming, because they have understood the prophesies.(see rev 11.) And can tell the difference between the false and the true Christ. The false Christ will rule first; for only 3/half years.When Jesus comes, everything will be destroyed and those in Christ will meet Jesus in the air. Simple.
You won’t know the difference the way you are going because you are looking to a present Earth reign in the present Earth Jerusalem, with Jesus siting on a throne for all to see.
So, things will be standing, some vegetation, buildings, people… I do not believe that. If those things are still standing and they say Jesus is here or there, I will not believe it.
(Not going to comment on your posts about Revelation!).
Peace..
Out of the mouth of babes! I encourage everyone to read this.
The Second Coming
Written by Lia Eliades
March 2008
http://www.serfes.org/spiritual/march2008.htmIntroduction by Archimandrite Nektarios Serfes – Humbly I am presenting you from an Orthodox Perspective the teachings about “The Second Coming” written by an Orthodox teen named Lia Eliades, and she presented this at an Oratorical Festival that was sponsored by the Greek Orthodox Diocese of San Francisco. At the end of this outstanding spiritually rewarding text there are also further references for us to study about ‘The Second Coming of our Lord.’
At the Ascension of Jesus, the angels were head saying: “Why do you stand looking into Heaven? This Jesus will come in the same way as you saw Him go into heaven.” What do the Church Fathers teach us about the “Second Coming?”
As we sat around the Thanksgiving table a few years ago, my family was discussing how quickly technology had progressed in recent decades. My aunt, a devout Protestant, told us that she had always wondered how everyone on earth, simultaneously, would be able to see Christ at his Second Coming, since, according to Revelation, “He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him.” (Revelation 1:7). After a short, striking pause, she exclaimed, “TV!”
I knew very little about the Second Coming then, but something about this idea rang false with me, and I began researching the teachings of our Church on this enigmatic subject, which has been interpreted so differently by so many people. I found the Church Fathers emphasized that we must always be prepared for Christ’s return, as He “is coming at an hour we do not expect,” (Matthew 24:44). This being said, they have set wonderful parameters within which we may see the book of the Revelation and other eschatological passages of Bible. What I found in the Scriptures and in the writings of the Fathers assured me that any “Jesus” we see coming back on TV is not our Lord and God, but an antichrist.
“An” antichrist? Yes. Herod was an antichrist, Nero was an antichrist, and even heretics like Arius were antichrist. An antichrist, according to St. John the Theologian, is “anyone who denies that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh,” (I John 4:3) or, in other words, anyone who doesn’t believe in the unconfusedly united divine and human nature of Christ.
Yet, before the Second Coming of Christ, we will see one Antichrist-with a capital “A.” The tradition of our Church teaches us that he will not be a vicious killer like Nero or Hitler. In fact, most people-far from recognizing him as the Antichrist-will love and respect him, and perhaps even believe that he is Christ returned to the earth. He will walk about and perform miracles, perhaps bring “peace” and economic prosperity to the world, like a chaste life in apparent virtue-he’ll be an all-around “good guy,” and many people will forsake the true God and follow this impostor. Unfortunately, the Antichrist will even deceive many Christians.
Does this surprise us? It shouldn’t Christ Himself said, “Many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,” and will deceive many…for false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. See, I have told you beforehand.” (Matthew 24:5).
This is why it is critical to be “wise serpents” (Matthew 10:16) in listening to teachings on the end times. When I typed “The Second Coming into Google, I came up with 360 million results, and it would not surprise me if over 99 percent of them were riddled with the misinterpretation and false information which inevitably arise when we become, “Wise in our own eyes,” as the Prophet Isaiah writes (Isaiah 5:21).
One well-known, false teaching on the Second Coming is the concept of “pre-tribulation rapture,” or the idea that before the Antichrist appears and the plagues described in the book of Revelation come upon the earth, all the “good Christians” will be raptured into heaven and escape the trials and tribulations of the last days. Yet a careful reading of the Scriptures, a good look at the lives of the Saints-especially the martyrs-of the Church, and even a minimal knowledge of the teachings of the Church Fathers, will help us to clearly see the fallacy here.
In the Scriptures, Christ constantly warns His disciples that following Him is not for those who want a comfortable, easy life! “They will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake.” (Matthew 24:9) “Blessed are you when men revile and persecute you, and say all manner of evil against you falsely for My sake.” (Matthew 5:11) “He who loses his life for My sake will find it.” (Matthew 10:39) “Narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life and there are few who find it.” (Matthew 7:14) The apostles died dreadful deaths after lives of intense hardship, the martyrs of the Church were brutally mutilated and suffered terrible torments, and Christians in all centuries have been persecuted for their faith in and love for Christ.
How, then, can we believe that Christ-to keep “good Christians” from tribulation-will rapture them up into heaven before they experience pain and torment? On the contrary, the Church Fathers even envy those Christians who we understand will live and suffer in the last days. “Who will be these fortunate Christians, who will have the opportunity to confess and martyr during the years of the Antichrist? I consider these to be the greatest of martyrs!” exclaims St. Cyril of Jerusalem (From his fifteenth catechism on the Holy Spirit.)
A second heresy pertaining to the Second Coming is “chiliasm” or “millennialism,” based on a passage in Revelation. “Then I saw the souls of those who have been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshipped the beast or his image… and they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.” (Revelation 20:4) Proponents of the millennial heresy believe that Christ will come back and establish a peaceful kingdom on the planet earth where He will reign with the “good Christians” for a thousand years.
The Church Fathers, however, including St. Andrew of Caesarea, have always taken the “thousand years” to be a symbolic number referring to the period between the first coming of Christ on earth and the Second Coming. During this period-right now this very moment! -Christ’s saints are reigning with Him in the heavens.
It is crucial to understand this. If we believe that Christ is coming back to earth just like a normal human being, to walk around and perform miracles, and to establish a kingdom here full of “good people” living in “peace” and economic prosperity, we’re settling ourselves up to be deluded. Many will believe him to be Christ-the Christians and even the Orthodox will fall away from the Church and follow him. We will face great tribulation, and it will be extremely difficult in those days for us to preserve our faith and to hold on to our true Lord Jesus Christ.
When Christ comes back, WE WILL KNOW! There will be NO DOUBT! He will come as He left on the day of His Ascension, “In the clouds of heaven,” (Matthew 24:30; Revelation 1:7) and “As the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west.” (Matthew 24:27) “Every eye shall see Him!” (Revelation 1:7) “All the dead will rise from their graves!” (I Thessalonians 4:16) “Time will stop! The heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat!” (2 Peter 3:10)
The event will be unmistakable, to say the least. Nothing will be left of the world as we know it, except those who have faithfully followed “the Lamb” (Revelation Chapters 5 through 22) our Christ, “whose kingdom will have no end.”
We won’t see this on TV. Our Lord’s awesome Coming will follow the reign of the Antichrist, and will initiate the complete the complete transformation of the world. Then we shall see the eternal and indescribable kingdom of God. Let us struggle to keep the faith here and now, that by God’s grace we may all be participants in this glorious kingdom. Amen.
Camellia
I agree that when the False prophet comes, many will take him for Christ.
But we are not in darkness, and have been forewarned.
We are given all the signs of what this man will do, and even know where he will emerge from.
We know all his moves ahead of time because God has shown us.
We also know he will enforce the Mark of the Beast to all those who choose him over God,
and know he will be in power for 3 1/2 years.
There is only one false christ that does this, and he will set his temple up in Jerusalem.Then we know the signs from the scriptures what will take place with the plagues coming from the seven trumpets/seven vials leading right up to the coming.
You see we are not in the dark, and will not be left “guessing”.The majority of christians will be persecuted when the Real Christ returns,
already dead in their graves.Even if we are not alive when Christ returns, he have seen his coming through the spirit of truth, and testify before hand what will come and all leading up to this day.
When Christ comes, it will be so bright. The whole sky will be lit up. Not a living soul could miss this event.
Whether people see it on their tv’s or not, the signs will be in the sky, all they have to do is look up, and look around, and the world will witness the destruction of Babylon the great.That’s right Kerwin, but we are allowed to seek this book and discuss it and learn, so that we do not lack in knowledge.
If we are lacking in knowledge then we have no covering and are naked.The robe is the our new man which is created like God in true righteousness and holiness. Each of us has only that knowledge that God reveals to us. The church went at least one generation and possibly two or three without the book of Revelations as John wrote it in his later years. Prior to to that the gospel had been preached to a multitude, some that fell asleep before Revelations was written.
Always be dressed in the Spirit less you be found naked on that day.
The robe is the our new man which is created like God in true righteousness and holiness. Each of us has only that knowledge that God reveals to us. The church went at least one generation and possibly two or three without the book of Revelations as John wrote it in his later years. Prior to to that the gospel had been preached to a multitude, some that fell asleep before Revelations was written.
Always be dressed in the Spirit less you be found naked on that day.
Kerwin
I admit that everyone has a different measure of knowledge. But if one has been studying for 20 years or more, and his knowledge hasn’t increased, then his growth has been stunted. Jesus promised that if we walk with him, he will give us everything, all the deep secrets (solids), not just the milk.
Jesus feeds his sheep. He doesn’t just feed them with a little milk then leave them. He feeds them the whole way through until they reach maturity, then feeds them some more. It never ends.
If we havn’t received all the solids, then Christ has not given it, but held it back for a reason. If his sheep go to a different shepherd for food, then Christ will stop feeding them.
Journey, I think Kerwin is a very positive man who speaks wisdom concerning this.
Prophecy is good, but our thoughts and actions should be focused more on positive things, imo.
Camillia.
You have the same spirit in you, as the other Christians.
Saying; prophecy is about doom and gloom. Yes, doom and gloom to the lukewarm believers.
But a rejoicing to the true believers, because the kingdom is at hand.
We will see our Lord in the clouds, and be with Him in His kingdom.wakeup.
Wakeup, I know. But our focus, imo now, should be on salvation, loving our neighbor as ourselves, and serving and loving the Lord our God, Amen?
Camillia.
Our focus should be on seeking the kingdom of God; by eating and drinking, the flesh and blood of Christ.
John 6:48–58. Get very hungry, and gorge your self to life everlasting.wakeup.
Journey. TV’s wont exist!
Camillia
Revelation 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth
How do you think people will know these two are dead?
Revelation 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
Revelation 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
Revelation 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
Journey, I think Kerwin is a very positive man who speaks wisdom concerning this.
Prophecy is good, but our thoughts and actions should be focused more on positive things, imo.
Camillia
We receive the positive things when we receive truth. Without truth, there is nothing positive coming.
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