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asher
i know that all what Paul was teaching come out of the Torah and there is nothing what has been preached by the apostles who is not in the Torah.
and all the words that Christ spooked are in the Torah as well.
Ac 22:3 “I am a Jew, born in Tarsus of Cilicia, but brought up in this city. Under Gamaliel I was thoroughly trained in the law of our fathers and was just as zealous for God as any of you are today.
you should read more carefully ;he “but brought up in this city under Gamaliel I WAS “
Paul was clearly talking about his past years as a pharisees
Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 05 2010,07:37) asher i know that all what Paul was teaching come out of the Torah and there is nothing what has been preached by the apostles who is not in the Torah.
and all the words that Christ spooked are in the Torah as well.
Ac 22:3 “I am a Jew, born in Tarsus of Cilicia, but brought up in this city. Under Gamaliel I was thoroughly trained in the law of our fathers and was just as zealous for God as any of you are today.
you should read more carefully ;he “but brought up in this city under Gamaliel I WAS “
Paul was clearly talking about his past years as a pharisees
I have read carefullyIt states that Paul was taught under Gamliel, that is exactly what I said.
And yes he was talking about past years, obviously if he was mentioning who taught him he would not be speaking in the present tense.
He spoke of his being a Pharisee in the present tense.
Either way, your point doesnt refute what I have been saying
asher
i did not expecting any thing less of what you said, after all you go back to square one,typical
Posted: Feb. 05 2010,10:34——————————————————————————–
And yes he was talking about past years, obviously if he was mentioning who taught him he would not be speaking in the present tense.He spoke of his being a Pharisee in the present tense.
Either way, your point doesnt refute what I have been saying
Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 05 2010,15:09) asher
i did not expecting any thing less of what you said, after all you go back to square one,typical
Posted: Feb. 05 2010,10:34——————————————————————————–
And yes he was talking about past years, obviously if he was mentioning who taught him he would not be speaking in the present tense.He spoke of his being a Pharisee in the present tense.
Either way, your point doesnt refute what I have been saying
i dont understand what you mean, please clarifyQuote (ashermoshehthreepointonefour @ Jan. 21 2010,01:39) PROOF THAT YESHUA ADHERED TO, PRACTICED AND TAUGHT ORAL TORAH REB YESHUA'S UPBRINGING & CHILDHOOD IN TORAH OBSERVANCE
As far written Torah observance by Reb Yeshua in the New Testament; accounts (Luke 2:39-52, Luke 2:21-32, Luke 2:39, Luke 2:41, John 8:46; Galations 4:4) stress that Yeshua was brought up as an observant Jewish child in the traditions and faith of his fathers (who were Jews).
The Oral Torah and Teffilin/Totofot wearing was certainly existent in that day because history proves that, especially being that he grew up in Galilee which was predominantly Pharisee and Hasidic (of that day).
REB YESHUA'S TORAH TEACHING OF TORAH OBSERVANCE
Reb Yeshua told his followers to follow and observe the teachings and instructions of the Rabbis (Matthew 23:1-3). That is certainly a Torah-observant statement as we know the commandment written in Deut. 17:8-12. This would indicate that he upheld all or at least the majority of the Rabbinic provisions, halakha and fence laws in addition to the actual written Torah.
He also said that he didn't come to change the Torah, and that if anyone kept and taught others to keep even the smallest commandments of the Torah that they would be considered great. He also stated that if any broke the commandments and taught others to break them that they would be considered least. (Matthew 5:17-20) Those statements certainly indicate that Torah observance was important of him.
When Reb Yeshua was asked, what was the greatest commandment in the Torah, Reb Yeshua replied with the beginning of the most important spriptural prayer that every Jew recites 2 times each day, the Shema (Mark 12:28-30). That should give serilous creedence to the statement that Reb Yeshua was certainly Torah observant and that he lived and taught Torah observance.
Another extremely vital point to make, is that the Shema is the very scroll that is put inside of the boxes of the Teffilin. For him to make such a profound statement to his students and to the people around him when asked about the most important commandments and recites the Shema… it is more than reasonable to assert that he surely layed Teffilin as any good Jew does. In fact is not reasonable to even assume that he didnt put on Teffilin, based on these facts that the NT does clearly indicate.
Something that else that needs to be considered. The New Testament constantly speaks of Reb Yeshua being a “Tzadik” or a “righteous person.” We know that when a Jew is referred to as a “Tzadik” it means that they have to be Torah observant. In fact, it means that their Torah observance has to exceed and surpass the Letter of the Law. That is what that word means. All the Sages were referred to as Tzadikim.
REB YESHUA'S TORAH OBSERVANCE IN DRESS
He kept the ordinances prescribed in the Torah in terms of his attire, as the Torah commands that man wear a tallit with tzitzit (a four cornered garment with fringes/tassels). When the sick woman reached for him, she grabbed his tzitzit (fringes/tassels) (Mark 6:56; Matthew 9:20; Luke 8:44).
Here is a key point. Because, we understand that the NT clearly records his Torah observance in terms of wearing holy garments. It would be reasonable to assert and to make a educated guess that he would have surely layed Teffilin. Especially since the commandment of Tzitzit is closely related and associated with Mezzuzah and Teffilin.
REB YESHUA'S TORAH OBSERVANCE IN THE BLESSINGS AND PRAYERS
He used and taught the traditional prayers that were instituted by the Sages such as the Amidah – commonly called the “L-rd’s Prayer” (Matthew 6:9-13). His special prayer is merely a shortened form of the third, fifth, sixth, ninth and fifteenth of the Eighteen Benedictions of the Amidah. And this permutative combination of the Amidah is indicated by some of the Sages and is recorded in the Talmud. Also to note, some of the Sages have different rulings and permutive formations of the Amidah prayer, but the point is to show that he at least observed this.
He recited the halachic blessings over matzah and wine when he gave thanks at meals (Luke 22:19-20).
Another point I would like to make is, is that much of the prayers and blessings that one can find in their Siddur (or Jewish daily prayerbook) are not found in the scriptures at all. So these prayers and blessings were certainly Oral Torah or at least instituted traditions passed down before Reb Yeshua from the Rabbis generations to generation.
REB YESHUA'S SABBATH OBSERVANCE
Many people like to point the moments where it seems as thought Yehua is attacking, disobeying and discrediting the halakhot of the Sages, such as the Shabbat, the washing of hands, etc… but they do not realize that the Talmud gives instances that support Yeshua's position in each of the cases that it was brought up. These same instances, reveals very clearly that Yeshua surely upheld and respected the Oral Torah in every way. Since the Sabbath was brought up, I will explain each instance that this argument has been used and explain how my position is not without credible reason.
Carrying on the Sabbath
When Reb Yeshua told the man to pick his bed up and carry it on Shabbat He was not denouncing the Rabbinical authority or the Oral Torah He was in accordance to the the Rabbinical authority and the Oral Torah. The laws of Eruv is part of the 7 rabbinic laws by which the issue at hand proves that Yeshua was in accordance to these laws.
The Oral Torah permits carrying within an enclosed “private” area on Shabbat and other holidays. This area can either be physical or symbolic. Such an area enclosed and considered “private” may vary in size from a small home to an entire community depending on various circumstances and specific situations. The Talmud specifies both the definitions of an enclosure and how to render an entire area a private domain from a small home to an entire community. This is normally done with strings that are fastined around the “private domain.” This string indicates where the people may walk and carry on the Sabbath.
In a Jewish community, especially where this instance occurred in the NT, indicates the location of where this man was with his mat and Reb Yeshua was in the square where there would have been Eruv strings fastened around the domain. We know that by historical records and by traditions that are still practiced there to this very day. To think that only in this moment, that the people ran and took down the Eruv string so that Reb Yeshua would break the Sabbath is not a reasonable assertion.
So we clearly see here, that Reb Yeshua did not violate the Sabbath, nor did he teach others to violate the Sabbath. The people who accused him, where either ignorant of the Torah's laws or they were simply hoping on that ignorance to be a means to persecute Reb Yeshua. The people who questioned the man and Yeshua, obviously, like this situation, they were uneducated on the subject and made statements and judgments that were incorrect.
There are many “fine print” regarding this issue, aside from the fact that this location indicates that the situation occurred with the Eruv strings…. another case can be argued. The man who carried his mat on Shabbat was not breaking the Eruv laws because his home was his bed. He was homeless. The Talmud says in the Shabbat portions that if a person is homeless or cannot afford to set up an Eruv or is unable to do it himself and has no one else to help him… The Eruv becomes himself and his belongings because he is unable to have an enclosed private area… Therefore, Yeshua was not at all violating the Sabbath.
Healing on the Sabbath
When Reb Yeshua healed people on the Sabbath, and the people including certain Pharisees/Seduccees were in opposition… they were only 1. uneducated on the matter (the people) and 2. were relying on the ignorance of the people to control them (the bad Pharisees).
According to the Oral Torah or the Talmud… you would find that it is permitted to heal or save a life or tend to any emergent situation on the Sabbath. All laws are suspended to save a life or to tend to a dire emergency. Here, we see that Reb Yeshua was in accordance to the laws of the Torah.
The phrase, “the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath,” appears in the rabbinical material of the Talmud (Mekilta 103b, Yoma 85b). This statement was a teaching by many Rabbinical scholars of Reb Yeshua's day. The Pharisee School of Hillel was famous for that quote. Yeshua was not saying anything separate from Judaism, he was upholding the teachings of Judaism.
The Sages frequently use the verse from Hosea 6:6, that helping people was of greater importance than observing the rituals and customs (Sukkah 49b, Deuteronomy Rabba on 16:18, etc.), just as Yeshua did. In fact, they used the same examples Yeshua presented, David’s eating the Tabernacle bread and the Temple offerings made on the Sabbath, to demonstrate the same general principle, that the needs of life override the Sabbath restrictions (Y’lomm’denu, Yalkut II, par. 130, Tosefta Shabbat 15b).
We can clearly see now that the Pharisees and Seducees who were accusing Reb Yeshua were corrupted in their judgements against him. We also can tell very clearly that these particular Pharisees were heretical in the fact that they associated with the Seducees who Rabban Hillel, a Pharisee himself, stated were heretics.
Washing of Hands Ritual
Besides the Sabbath issues mentioned above, this is an argument that Jews love to use against Reb Yeshua's adherence to Rabbinic law and that Christians love to use against Judaism. Both sides are wrong.
When the certain Pharisees questioned Yeshua about his disciples not doing the hand washing ritual it is important to note that they didnt question whether or not he washed his hands, they questioned his disciples. It is more than likely that He did wash His hands, but the disciples did not. What does this mean?
The Talmud states that the ritual of hand washing (netilat yedayim) is invalid if the mind and heart is not also “cleansing.” In the Talmud, Rabbi Yohanan ben Zakkai, stated: “In life it is not the dead who make you unclean; nor is it the water you wash your hands, but rather the ordinances of the king of kings that purifies.” Much later, Rabbi Maimonides (Rambam) made a similar comment, “For to confine oneself to cleaning the outward appearance through washing and cleaning the garment, while having at the same time a lust for various pleasures and unbridled license … merits the utmost blame.”
The Pharisees had judgement in their hearts instead of compassion, and therefore Yeshua contested their teachings because they were breaking commandments in their statements against them. They were not following their own teaching, and therefore were disgracing the laws of HaShem. It was by this reason that Yeshua responded that it is not that which goes into your mouth that makes you unclean, but rather that which comes out. He basically held a mirror in front of their faces.
The tradition of ritual purity; namely, washing the hands; is valid, however, invalid if your mind and your heart is not cleansing. The certain Pharisees were doing things to look pious and special, so others would see… yet they were filthy on the inside. The disciples didnt wash their hands because they didnt feel they were clean inside, and therefore didnt do it in that instance. But we should consider the other verses that reveal that they certain did observe this ritual of washing the hands.
Ya'acov (James) 4:8
“Draw nigh to Elah, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double minded.”The Pharisees taught that the Torah had been given to the community for the purpose of community and therefore any competant person was capable of interpreting it, but that Rabbinical authority was paramount (Deut 17:9-12). Yeshua also taught that Rabbinical authority was paramount (Matt 23:1-3). This is a good indication that reb Yeshua viewed the Pharisaic doctrines and teachings as acceptable and authoritive.
Pharisees believed that the Oral Torah was also given to Moses along with the Written Torah at Mount Sinai. The scriptures in the book of Exodus supports this theory that there was an Oral Teaching given to Moses from God. The Written Torah is incomplete without the Oral Torah. Many of the teachings of Oral Torah was also practiced and taught by Yeshua. In fact, all of the instances that are used against Rabbinic Judaism are the very instances that Yeshua was observing the Oral Torah. I personally find that fact to be a really bubble burster. A person would need to educate themselves on this subject in order to know these things, other wise they will continue to follow the perversions that have been spoonfed to those who do not know.
They were advocates of social improvement and were open to doctrinal developments because they believed that the Torah was a relevant social force. They considered the Torah to be a set table while at the same time being capable of being expanded to address new circumstances and new situations. This not only makes sense, but it is inevitable. They taught that the Torah provided continuity and was a basis for progress and development.
The “traditions of the elders” or also “customs” that were instituted were not to be taken as Biblical command, only secondary in that a tradition or a custom instituted in the community cannot supersede a Biblical commandment. Hence, one of the reasons why Reb Yeshua said “Why do you ALSO transgress the commandments of God by your tradition?” Reb Yeshua was not defending the disciples, he said “why do you ALSO” indicating that the disciples DID transgress against the rabbinic authority, however, ALSO the Pharisees improperly used that Rabbinic instruction when they violated a Biblical command.Reb Yeshua was using their own teachings against them because they were violating the chain of command. A Rabbinic enactment or a tradition or custom cannot ever be above a Biblical commandment, it can only serve as an enhancement of the Biblical command and must be treated as secondary authority. And this is what the Pharisees taught.
REB YESHUA'S WAY OF LIFE
His way of life reflected other Jewish customs as well. He followed the custom of not only teaching in the synagogue, but in the open air like the Rabbis who taught everywhere. The frequent use of Tevilah (baptism) associated with his ministry was also quite common to his time, as the Talmud itself testifies in Sanhedrin 39a. Whether one accepts it or not, it is a fact attested to by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, that even in his final hour, Reb Yeshua did not stop practicing the halakhic rites of Judaism.
Perhaps, most significant was his relationship to the Torah and traditions, which clearly describes as entirely orthodox. He declared the permanent essence and authority of the whole Torah in Mathew 5:17-19 and even accepted the Pharasaic halakhot and the Oral Torah in Mathew 23:1-3 when he said, “you must obey them and do everything they tell you.” Aside from that he endorsed the halakhah of the tithing of herbs (Mathew 23:23), bensche at meals (Mark 6:4, 8:6), blessings over wine, and the reciting of the Rabbinic instituted prayer, the Hallel at the Passover Seder (commonly known as the last supper) (Mark 14:22-23, 26).
Another interesting point was Reb Yeshua's observance of Chunakah (John 10:22-23), which is another Rabbinic enactment and not found written in the Torah as a mandated observance. This again shows that he observed Oral Torah. It is
most interesting to note that the only place in the entire Bible that Chanukah is mentioned is in the New Testament.The “Sermon on the Mount” which is viewed often as an overview of Reb Yeshua’s teaching, reflects concepts familiar to the Sages of his day, consistent with the Oral Torah and Rabbinical teachings found in the Talmud. It is clear that his teachings consist of magnificent illustrations of the proper understanding of the Torah, spelling out its wider implications just as the many commentaries and debates amongst the Sages recorded in the Talmud. His words were all so common in comparison to the Sages. He uses a Midrashic style which is an interpretation of the Scriptures, just like it is in the Talmud.
The widely known phrase to “turn the other cheek” passage (Matthew 5:38-48) is often cited as an example of the radical newness of Yeshua’s teachings. But it is the same Spirit which inspired the best teaching of the Sages. A person is not to seek retaliation but should endure the insult humbly. This the Sages agreed with, and counseled that a person struck on the cheek should forgive the offending party even if he does not ask forgiveness (Tosefta Baba Kanima 9:29). The Talmud commends the person who accepts offense without retaliation and submits to suffering and insult cheerfully (Yoma 23a). In fact, one can find parallels in the Rabbinical material to almost all of Reb Yeshua’s statements.
THE NEW TESTAMENT AND TORAH OBSERVANCE
According to exegetical and scholarly approach, the nature of the NT's text certainly assumes Torah observance but stresses moral laws because of the fact that morality seems to be mankind's most difficult struggle. The reason being is because, the people of the New Testament already had the Tenakh (Old Testament) as a normative guideline of how to keep the laws of HaShem and how to be an observant Jew. There was basically no need to stress Torah observance in that way, but yet, as I have provided, there are clear indications that prove Rebbe Yeshua did in fact observe Oral and Written Torah.
Rebbe Yeshua would not have been able to have such a large following if he was not Torah observant, for people were calling him the Messiah. And the Jews of that day knew that the Messiah must be Torah observant according to the prophecies of the OT. They would never have referred to him as a Tzadik had he not been Torah observant.
Even in educational Jewish learning books, such as the Encyclopedia Judaica, says that “the New Testament provides us with undeniable evidence that Yeshua did not oppose any prescription of the Written or Oral Torah.”
Yehezkel Kaufmann, a famous Jewish author on Jewish thought, said that, “The attitude of Yeshua to the Torah is the very same attitude one finds among the masters of halakhah and aggadatta who followed in the Pharisaic tradition.”
So, we can see here, that we do know alot of about Rebbe Yeshua, and we do know very clearly that he was a Torah observant Jew who did teach and practice Oral and Written Torah, not in a general manner but in a very specific and scrupolous manner.
asher…Jesus was born into a nation that was under the Law, covenant, given to Moses; thereby he had to observe the law.
Although he was preaching the new covenant, it was not yet established, only after his death did the new covenant come into effect.Georg
Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 09 2010,20:12) asher read previous quotes
I have, and I still dont understand what you are saying. Please clarify, thanks.;Quote (Elizabeth @ Feb. 09 2010,21:39) Quote (ashermoshehthreepointonefour @ Jan. 21 2010,01:39) PROOF THAT YESHUA ADHERED TO, PRACTICED AND TAUGHT ORAL TORAH REB YESHUA'S UPBRINGING & CHILDHOOD IN TORAH OBSERVANCE
As far written Torah observance by Reb Yeshua in the New Testament; accounts (Luke 2:39-52, Luke 2:21-32, Luke 2:39, Luke 2:41, John 8:46; Galations 4:4) stress that Yeshua was brought up as an observant Jewish child in the traditions and faith of his fathers (who were Jews).
The Oral Torah and Teffilin/Totofot wearing was certainly existent in that day because history proves that, especially being that he grew up in Galilee which was predominantly Pharisee and Hasidic (of that day).
REB YESHUA'S TORAH TEACHING OF TORAH OBSERVANCE
Reb Yeshua told his followers to follow and observe the teachings and instructions of the Rabbis (Matthew 23:1-3). That is certainly a Torah-observant statement as we know the commandment written in Deut. 17:8-12. This would indicate that he upheld all or at least the majority of the Rabbinic provisions, halakha and fence laws in addition to the actual written Torah.
He also said that he didn't come to change the Torah, and that if anyone kept and taught others to keep even the smallest commandments of the Torah that they would be considered great. He also stated that if any broke the commandments and taught others to break them that they would be considered least. (Matthew 5:17-20) Those statements certainly indicate that Torah observance was important of him.
When Reb Yeshua was asked, what was the greatest commandment in the Torah, Reb Yeshua replied with the beginning of the most important spriptural prayer that every Jew recites 2 times each day, the Shema (Mark 12:28-30). That should give serilous creedence to the statement that Reb Yeshua was certainly Torah observant and that he lived and taught Torah observance.
Another extremely vital point to make, is that the Shema is the very scroll that is put inside of the boxes of the Teffilin. For him to make such a profound statement to his students and to the people around him when asked about the most important commandments and recites the Shema… it is more than reasonable to assert that he surely layed Teffilin as any good Jew does. In fact is not reasonable to even assume that he didnt put on Teffilin, based on these facts that the NT does clearly indicate.
Something that else that needs to be considered. The New Testament constantly speaks of Reb Yeshua being a “Tzadik” or a “righteous person.” We know that when a Jew is referred to as a “Tzadik” it means that they have to be Torah observant. In fact, it means that their Torah observance has to exceed and surpass the Letter of the Law. That is what that word means. All the Sages were referred to as Tzadikim.
REB YESHUA'S TORAH OBSERVANCE IN DRESS
He kept the ordinances prescribed in the Torah in terms of his attire, as the Torah commands that man wear a tallit with tzitzit (a four cornered garment with fringes/tassels). When the sick woman reached for him, she grabbed his tzitzit (fringes/tassels) (Mark 6:56; Matthew 9:20; Luke 8:44).
Here is a key point. Because, we understand that the NT clearly records his Torah observance in terms of wearing holy garments. It would be reasonable to assert and to make a educated guess that he would have surely layed Teffilin. Especially since the commandment of Tzitzit is closely related and associated with Mezzuzah and Teffilin.
REB YESHUA'S TORAH OBSERVANCE IN THE BLESSINGS AND PRAYERS
He used and taught the traditional prayers that were instituted by the Sages such as the Amidah – commonly called the “L-rd’s Prayer” (Matthew 6:9-13). His special prayer is merely a shortened form of the third, fifth, sixth, ninth and fifteenth of the Eighteen Benedictions of the Amidah. And this permutative combination of the Amidah is indicated by some of the Sages and is recorded in the Talmud. Also to note, some of the Sages have different rulings and permutive formations of the Amidah prayer, but the point is to show that he at least observed this.
He recited the halachic blessings over matzah and wine when he gave thanks at meals (Luke 22:19-20).
Another point I would like to make is, is that much of the prayers and blessings that one can find in their Siddur (or Jewish daily prayerbook) are not found in the scriptures at all. So these prayers and blessings were certainly Oral Torah or at least instituted traditions passed down before Reb Yeshua from the Rabbis generations to generation.
REB YESHUA'S SABBATH OBSERVANCE
Many people like to point the moments where it seems as thought Yehua is attacking, disobeying and discrediting the halakhot of the Sages, such as the Shabbat, the washing of hands, etc… but they do not realize that the Talmud gives instances that support Yeshua's position in each of the cases that it was brought up. These same instances, reveals very clearly that Yeshua surely upheld and respected the Oral Torah in every way. Since the Sabbath was brought up, I will explain each instance that this argument has been used and explain how my position is not without credible reason.
Carrying on the Sabbath
When Reb Yeshua told the man to pick his bed up and carry it on Shabbat He was not denouncing the Rabbinical authority or the Oral Torah He was in accordance to the the Rabbinical authority and the Oral Torah. The laws of Eruv is part of the 7 rabbinic laws by which the issue at hand proves that Yeshua was in accordance to these laws.
The Oral Torah permits carrying within an enclosed “private” area on Shabbat and other holidays. This area can either be physical or symbolic. Such an area enclosed and considered “private” may vary in size from a small home to an entire community depending on various circumstances and specific situations. The Talmud specifies both the definitions of an enclosure and how to render an entire area a private domain from a small home to an entire community. This is normally done with strings that are fastined around the “private domain.” This string indicates where the people may walk and carry on the Sabbath.
In a Jewish community, especially where this instance occurred in the NT, indicates the location of where this man was with his mat and Reb Yeshua was in the square where there would have been Eruv strings fastened around the domain. We know that by historical records and by traditions that are still practiced there to this very day. To think that only in this moment, that the people ran and took down the Eruv string so that Reb Yeshua would break the Sabbath is not a reasonable assertion.
So we clearly see here, that Reb Yeshua did not violate the Sabbath, nor did he teach others to violate the Sabbath. The people who accused him, where either ignorant of the Torah's laws or they were simply hoping on that ignorance to be a means to persecute Reb Yeshua. The people who questioned the man and Yeshua, obviously, like this situation, they were uneducated on the subject and made statements and judgments that were incorrect.
There are many “fine print” regarding this issue, aside from the fact that this location indicates that the situation occurred with the Eruv strings…. another case can be argued. The man who carried his mat on Shabbat was not breaking the Eruv laws because his home was his bed. He was homeless. The Talmud says in the Shabbat portions that if a person is homeless or cannot afford to set up an Eruv or is unabl
e to do it himself and has no one else to help him… The Eruv becomes himself and his belongings because he is unable to have an enclosed private area… Therefore, Yeshua was not at all violating the Sabbath.Healing on the Sabbath
When Reb Yeshua healed people on the Sabbath, and the people including certain Pharisees/Seduccees were in opposition… they were only 1. uneducated on the matter (the people) and 2. were relying on the ignorance of the people to control them (the bad Pharisees).
According to the Oral Torah or the Talmud… you would find that it is permitted to heal or save a life or tend to any emergent situation on the Sabbath. All laws are suspended to save a life or to tend to a dire emergency. Here, we see that Reb Yeshua was in accordance to the laws of the Torah.
The phrase, “the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath,” appears in the rabbinical material of the Talmud (Mekilta 103b, Yoma 85b). This statement was a teaching by many Rabbinical scholars of Reb Yeshua's day. The Pharisee School of Hillel was famous for that quote. Yeshua was not saying anything separate from Judaism, he was upholding the teachings of Judaism.
The Sages frequently use the verse from Hosea 6:6, that helping people was of greater importance than observing the rituals and customs (Sukkah 49b, Deuteronomy Rabba on 16:18, etc.), just as Yeshua did. In fact, they used the same examples Yeshua presented, David’s eating the Tabernacle bread and the Temple offerings made on the Sabbath, to demonstrate the same general principle, that the needs of life override the Sabbath restrictions (Y’lomm’denu, Yalkut II, par. 130, Tosefta Shabbat 15b).
We can clearly see now that the Pharisees and Seducees who were accusing Reb Yeshua were corrupted in their judgements against him. We also can tell very clearly that these particular Pharisees were heretical in the fact that they associated with the Seducees who Rabban Hillel, a Pharisee himself, stated were heretics.
Washing of Hands Ritual
Besides the Sabbath issues mentioned above, this is an argument that Jews love to use against Reb Yeshua's adherence to Rabbinic law and that Christians love to use against Judaism. Both sides are wrong.
When the certain Pharisees questioned Yeshua about his disciples not doing the hand washing ritual it is important to note that they didnt question whether or not he washed his hands, they questioned his disciples. It is more than likely that He did wash His hands, but the disciples did not. What does this mean?
The Talmud states that the ritual of hand washing (netilat yedayim) is invalid if the mind and heart is not also “cleansing.” In the Talmud, Rabbi Yohanan ben Zakkai, stated: “In life it is not the dead who make you unclean; nor is it the water you wash your hands, but rather the ordinances of the king of kings that purifies.” Much later, Rabbi Maimonides (Rambam) made a similar comment, “For to confine oneself to cleaning the outward appearance through washing and cleaning the garment, while having at the same time a lust for various pleasures and unbridled license … merits the utmost blame.”
The Pharisees had judgement in their hearts instead of compassion, and therefore Yeshua contested their teachings because they were breaking commandments in their statements against them. They were not following their own teaching, and therefore were disgracing the laws of HaShem. It was by this reason that Yeshua responded that it is not that which goes into your mouth that makes you unclean, but rather that which comes out. He basically held a mirror in front of their faces.
The tradition of ritual purity; namely, washing the hands; is valid, however, invalid if your mind and your heart is not cleansing. The certain Pharisees were doing things to look pious and special, so others would see… yet they were filthy on the inside. The disciples didnt wash their hands because they didnt feel they were clean inside, and therefore didnt do it in that instance. But we should consider the other verses that reveal that they certain did observe this ritual of washing the hands.
Ya'acov (James) 4:8
“Draw nigh to Elah, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double minded.”The Pharisees taught that the Torah had been given to the community for the purpose of community and therefore any competant person was capable of interpreting it, but that Rabbinical authority was paramount (Deut 17:9-12). Yeshua also taught that Rabbinical authority was paramount (Matt 23:1-3). This is a good indication that reb Yeshua viewed the Pharisaic doctrines and teachings as acceptable and authoritive.
Pharisees believed that the Oral Torah was also given to Moses along with the Written Torah at Mount Sinai. The scriptures in the book of Exodus supports this theory that there was an Oral Teaching given to Moses from God. The Written Torah is incomplete without the Oral Torah. Many of the teachings of Oral Torah was also practiced and taught by Yeshua. In fact, all of the instances that are used against Rabbinic Judaism are the very instances that Yeshua was observing the Oral Torah. I personally find that fact to be a really bubble burster. A person would need to educate themselves on this subject in order to know these things, other wise they will continue to follow the perversions that have been spoonfed to those who do not know.
They were advocates of social improvement and were open to doctrinal developments because they believed that the Torah was a relevant social force. They considered the Torah to be a set table while at the same time being capable of being expanded to address new circumstances and new situations. This not only makes sense, but it is inevitable. They taught that the Torah provided continuity and was a basis for progress and development.
The “traditions of the elders” or also “customs” that were instituted were not to be taken as Biblical command, only secondary in that a tradition or a custom instituted in the community cannot supersede a Biblical commandment. Hence, one of the reasons why Reb Yeshua said “Why do you ALSO transgress the commandments of God by your tradition?” Reb Yeshua was not defending the disciples, he said “why do you ALSO” indicating that the disciples DID transgress against the rabbinic authority, however, ALSO the Pharisees improperly used that Rabbinic instruction when they violated a Biblical command.Reb Yeshua was using their own teachings against them because they were violating the chain of command. A Rabbinic enactment or a tradition or custom cannot ever be above a Biblical commandment, it can only serve as an enhancement of the Biblical command and must be treated as secondary authority. And this is what the Pharisees taught.
REB YESHUA'S WAY OF LIFE
His way of life reflected other Jewish customs as well. He followed the custom of not only teaching in the synagogue, but in the open air like the Rabbis who taught everywhere. The frequent use of Tevilah (baptism) associated with his ministry was also quite common to his time, as the Talmud itself testifies in Sanhedrin 39a. Whether one accepts it or not, it is a fact attested to by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, that even in his final hour, Reb Yeshua did not stop practicing the halakhic rites of Judaism.
Perhaps, most significant was his relationship to the Torah and traditions, which clearly describes as entirely orthodox. He declared the permanent essence and authority of the whole Torah in Mathew 5:17-19 and even accepted the Pharasaic halakhot and the Oral Torah in Mathew 23:1-3 when he said, “you must obey them and do everything they tell you.” Aside from that he endorsed the halakhah of the tithing of herbs (Mathew 23:23), bensche at meals (Mark 6:4, 8:6), blessings over wine, and the reciting of the Rabbinic instituted prayer, the Hallel at the Passover Seder (commonly known as the last supper) (Mark 14:22-23, 26).
Another inte
resting point was Reb Yeshua's observance of Chunakah (John 10:22-23), which is another Rabbinic enactment and not found written in the Torah as a mandated observance. This again shows that he observed Oral Torah. It is most interesting to note that the only place in the entire Bible that Chanukah is mentioned is in the New Testament.The “Sermon on the Mount” which is viewed often as an overview of Reb Yeshua’s teaching, reflects concepts familiar to the Sages of his day, consistent with the Oral Torah and Rabbinical teachings found in the Talmud. It is clear that his teachings consist of magnificent illustrations of the proper understanding of the Torah, spelling out its wider implications just as the many commentaries and debates amongst the Sages recorded in the Talmud. His words were all so common in comparison to the Sages. He uses a Midrashic style which is an interpretation of the Scriptures, just like it is in the Talmud.
The widely known phrase to “turn the other cheek” passage (Matthew 5:38-48) is often cited as an example of the radical newness of Yeshua’s teachings. But it is the same Spirit which inspired the best teaching of the Sages. A person is not to seek retaliation but should endure the insult humbly. This the Sages agreed with, and counseled that a person struck on the cheek should forgive the offending party even if he does not ask forgiveness (Tosefta Baba Kanima 9:29). The Talmud commends the person who accepts offense without retaliation and submits to suffering and insult cheerfully (Yoma 23a). In fact, one can find parallels in the Rabbinical material to almost all of Reb Yeshua’s statements.
THE NEW TESTAMENT AND TORAH OBSERVANCE
According to exegetical and scholarly approach, the nature of the NT's text certainly assumes Torah observance but stresses moral laws because of the fact that morality seems to be mankind's most difficult struggle. The reason being is because, the people of the New Testament already had the Tenakh (Old Testament) as a normative guideline of how to keep the laws of HaShem and how to be an observant Jew. There was basically no need to stress Torah observance in that way, but yet, as I have provided, there are clear indications that prove Rebbe Yeshua did in fact observe Oral and Written Torah.
Rebbe Yeshua would not have been able to have such a large following if he was not Torah observant, for people were calling him the Messiah. And the Jews of that day knew that the Messiah must be Torah observant according to the prophecies of the OT. They would never have referred to him as a Tzadik had he not been Torah observant.
Even in educational Jewish learning books, such as the Encyclopedia Judaica, says that “the New Testament provides us with undeniable evidence that Yeshua did not oppose any prescription of the Written or Oral Torah.”
Yehezkel Kaufmann, a famous Jewish author on Jewish thought, said that, “The attitude of Yeshua to the Torah is the very same attitude one finds among the masters of halakhah and aggadatta who followed in the Pharisaic tradition.”
So, we can see here, that we do know alot of about Rebbe Yeshua, and we do know very clearly that he was a Torah observant Jew who did teach and practice Oral and Written Torah, not in a general manner but in a very specific and scrupolous manner.
asher…Jesus was born into a nation that was under the Law, covenant, given to Moses; thereby he had to observe the law.
Although he was preaching the new covenant, it was not yet established, only after his death did the new covenant come into effect.Georg
Hi,The New Covenant's conditions were the same Torah that the previous covenants were under. We establish the Law, through faith and action. The New Covenant did not change or do away with the Law. The only part of the Law that cannot be performed is the laws pertaining to the animal blood sacrifices, because the Temple is no longer standing. The only way to perform those commandments is spiritually, however…. all the other laws still apply and are still in full effect. The Torah is in full effect for all of time, as per the statements made by HaShem and Yeshua himself.
Hi ASh,
Jesus was a Jew and he taught Jews about their Law even as he was teaching that it was being superceded.[Mt19]It remains as a useful tool but no longer is the schoolmaster if men have turned to Christ.
You cannot serve two masters.Matt 19:1-3
hen Jesus had finished saying these things, he left Galilee and went into the region of Judea to the other side of the Jordan. 2 Large crowds followed him, and he healed them there.3 Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife
NIVRom 13:10
10 Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
NIVNick is right about Mt 19- Jesus walked in love and love requires more than the OT law did. The purpose of the law was to expose sin, but since all sin begins with selfishness and love is only selflessness, love sums up the law- love supercedes the law. If you are asked to walk one mile, go two….
Matt 5:33-6:1
33 “Again, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not break your oath, but keep the oaths you have made to the Lord.' 34 But I tell you, Do not swear at all: either by heaven, for it is God's throne; 35 or by the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King. 36 And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black. 37 Simply let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and your 'No,' 'No'; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.
38 “You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' 39 But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. 41 If someone forces you to go one mile , go with him two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.
43 “You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' 44 But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
NIV
This whole chapter is talking about how love is greater than the law- the purpose of the law was to spur the Jews onto love. Jesus exposes this and selfish heart motives to follow law in order to feel righteous- but you cannot be righteous w/o love. If you walk in love, you will fulfill the law. So the law is not bad, or thrown away, but the purpose is exposed. We were not called to be religious.. we were called to love.
Quote (Shania @ Feb. 11 2010,14:29) Matt 5:33-6:1 33 “Again, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not break your oath, but keep the oaths you have made to the Lord.' 34 But I tell you, Do not swear at all: either by heaven, for it is God's throne; 35 or by the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King. 36 And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black. 37 Simply let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and your 'No,' 'No'; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.
38 “You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' 39 But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. 41 If someone forces you to go one mile , go with him two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.
43 “You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' 44 But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
NIV
This whole chapter is talking about how love is greater than the law- the purpose of the law was to spur the Jews onto love. Jesus exposes this and selfish heart motives to follow law in order to feel righteous- but you cannot be righteous w/o love. If you walk in love, you will fulfill the law. So the law is not bad, or thrown away, but the purpose is exposed. We were not called to be religious.. we were called to love.
Not so, the NT and the OT tell us that the Torah's core message is love. Every commandment in the Torah is infused with love, which is why Yeshua stated that the entire Torah hangs on the two greatest commandments. The Torah's message was always about love. It didnt change and was nothing new when Yeshua came. Judaism has always taught that the Torah is about love. A person who keeps Torah without love is not keeping the Torah.Hi ASH,
Are you a Jew still reliant on the law for salvation?
If so Jesus discussed such matters with the jews of his time.
But the rich young man[mt19] wanted more and was offered the way of Jesus.It is a better way
Quote
Not so, the NT and the OT tell us that the Torah's core message is love. Every commandment in the Torah is infused with love, which is why Yeshua stated that the entire Torah hangs on the two greatest commandments. The Torah's message was always about love. It didnt change and was nothing new when Yeshua came. Judaism has always taught that the Torah is about love. A person who keeps Torah without love is not keeping the Torah.I agree with you, ASH. Our Father was always ALL about love. That has never changed. But what I am saying is that if you walk in love, you will fulfill the law- we are even called to go above and beyond what the law called for, because that is what love does.
Yeshua's disciples broke the law on purpose in front of the Pharisees (walking through a wheat field picking off grains during the sabbath)- and Yeshua defended them by referencing David and the High Priests- I'll have to look it up later and post it for you.
A logical analysis (found here: http://www.netzarim.co.il (the only legitimate Netzarim-website)) of the earliest manusscripts (including the logical implications of the research by Ben-Gurion Univ. Prof. of Linguistics Elisha Qimron of Dead Sea Scroll 4Q MMT)) of “the gospel of Matthew”, implies that Ribi Yehoshua was a Perushi (Pharisee). Ribi Yehoshua ha-Mashiakh (the Messiah) from Nazareth was called a Ribi and only the Perushim had Ribis.
The current earliest manusscripts of “the gospel of Matthew” contains words a first century Ribi would never have said, and thus a reconstruction is needed.
[Even according to the most authoritative Christian scholars, e.g., The Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible, NT contains redactions (see quote from that book in the below website; click on “Glossaries”; click on “NT”)]
Ribi Yehoshua taught this in NHM 23:1-3:
”Then Yehoshua spoke to the qehilot and to his talmidim saying, ”The Sophrim and those of the Rabbinic-Perushim sect of Judaism who advocate that Halakhah must be exclusively oral sit upon the bench of Mosheh. So now, keep shomeir and do concering everything – as much as they shall tell you! Just don’t imitate their maaseh because they say but they don’t do.”
The Rabbinic-Perushim taught that one should follow the mitzwot (directive or military-style orders), and Ribi Yehoshua taught that one should listen to that.Anders Branderud
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 12 2010,11:44) Hi ASH,
Are you a Jew still reliant on the law for salvation?
If so Jesus discussed such matters with the jews of his time.
But the rich young man[mt19] wanted more and was offered the way of Jesus.It is a better way
Hi Nick,Judaism never relied on Torah observance as the means for salvation, it was always about faith. But faith without works is empty and dead, therefore Torah observance is what follows Faith.
Yeshua was addressing the manipulation of the corrupted religious leaders who were posing a different scenario to the people. He was not changing the system, he was upholding it by opposing the corruptions.
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