Proof jesus is god from paul&#39;s mouth?

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 16 2009,21:50)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 17 2009,06:35)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 16 2009,14:32)

Hi R,
Jesus is the Son of God.
Not another god.

Why are you not making that statement to Kathi?

Is it because of your ant-trinitarian bias?

Hi WJ,
Kathy does not preach a strange tripartite god as you do or the odd community God including angels that TT teaches.

Her belief that Jesus is god lines up with the teaching of Jesus from scripture that men are gods. She is not confused and thinking that Jesus is his own father and god.

All I did was ask a sincere question!

Of course, you are right she does follow the Arians when you get right down to it.

They like you believe in many gods! Only she admits that there is a big God and a little god, Jesus!

Polytheism!

Kathi accuses others of being true-ish, and yet goes to a Trinitarian church and promotes Trinitarian teachers. That seems a little hypocritocal to me!

I simply ask you a question and this is her response…

“I am so over the harassment of the two true-ish trinitarians that follow me around from thread to thread on here. “

I for one will not sit and just take her hypocrosy any longer. She accuses me of harrassment for asking you a question, and its only because I have called her out on her doctrines, and what has she done but the same?

Get off your high horse Sis, you are not the only one around here being harrased, and you sure have followed me around many times and freely spoke your differences. Did I ever accuse you of harrassment?

Kathi, when you point the finger remember there are 3 more pointing back at you!

I can feel your love! Sad really!

September 17, 2009 at 12:48 pm#146343

Participant

Wow…I'm going to choose forgiveness towards you Keith for you really seem to know not what you do. Please understand if I respond to you in the future with “take it up with the Lord.”

I will not continue explaining myself over and over for it is futility.

Peace,
Kathi

September 17, 2009 at 2:29 pm#146349

Participant

Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 17 2009,08:48)

Wow…I'm going to choose forgiveness towards you Keith for you really seem to know not what you do. Please understand if I respond to you in the future with “take it up with the Lord.”

I will not continue explaining myself over and over for it is futility.

Peace,
Kathi

Kathi

Forgiveness for what?

You started this thing by challenging my integrity Kathi, by saying that I am not being true!

So I call out your own inconsistancys and you turn it into harrassment!

I forgive you for saying I was harrassing you for asking NH a question!

But your post here again takes the high road!

Amazing!

September 17, 2009 at 3:12 pm#146353

Participant

Keith,
I certainly did not accuse you of harassing me for asking NH a question and that alone shows how you do not get it, look at most of what you say about me or to me.
Regarding what you call “hypocrisy” on my part, I go to a Christian church that happens to have some teaching that I do not agree with and those who I am close to know that even my SS teacher. I am trying to make the best of it the situation because of others involved but if I was all about myself, I would go elsewhere. I am certainly not teaching something I believe is only true-ish while I am there or while I am not there. I call you out for teaching and representing something as true when you only believe it to be true-ish and you spend hours doing it. Maybe, if you are a pastor, your time would be better spent healing the sick and casting out demons, if you are so anointed, instead of sitting at your computer all day preparing arguments. Does the church that pays you realize how much time you spend in front of your computer arguing or does your wife know who apparently goes out to work all day? Whatever, take it to the Lord Keith.

I do glean from people who follow Christ whether they agree with the trinity or not. There is nothing hypocritical with that but you would try to make it so. Take it up with the Lord!

Peace,
K

September 17, 2009 at 4:06 pm#146360

Participant

Nick said:

Quote

Hi WJ,
Kathy does not preach a strange tripartite god as you do or the odd community God including angels that TT teaches.

Her belief that Jesus is god lines up with the teaching of Jesus from scripture that men are gods. She is not confused and thinking that Jesus is his own father and god.

Nick,
Kathi's views do not line up with scripture. She believes that the Son was formed in God's womb. So she is not talking about a god that is a man. No man came from God's womb.

Btw, the word “god” in reference to men simply means “ruler” or “magistrate.”

Trinitarians do not say that Jesus is the Father and you know this.

thinker

September 17, 2009 at 4:15 pm#146361

Participant

Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 18 2009,00:48)

Wow…I'm going to choose forgiveness towards you Keith for you really seem to know not what you do. Please understand if I respond to you in the future with “take it up with the Lord.”

I will not continue explaining myself over and over for it is futility.

Peace,
Kathi

TO KEITH:
See what I mean? Kathi is not sincere. She said to you, “I choose to forgive you for you do not know what you do.” What arrogance!

TO KATHI:
No one is twisting your arm to stay here just as no one is twisting mine. You should expect to be challenged when you post. If you can't take the heat then get out of the kitchen.

thinker

September 17, 2009 at 4:20 pm#146363

Participant

Quote (t8 @ Sep. 16 2009,18:53)

Quote (thethinker @ Sep. 12 2009,02:18)

The “divine nature” simply refers to God's communicable attributes such as love, kindness, patience and so forth. Men may share in God's communicable attributes.

Human nature makes one a human.

It is also written that we will share in divine nature, so are we part of the Trinity? Quadrinity?

The “divine nature” refers to God's communicable attributes such as love, mercy, kindness and so forth. We may share in God's communicable attributes. We may NOT share in the Divine form and it is not said anywhere in the Bible that we will share in the Divine form.

thinker

September 17, 2009 at 4:24 pm#146364

Participant

Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 17 2009,11:12)

I do glean from people who follow Christ whether they agree with the trinity or not. There is nothing hypocritical with that but you would try to make it so. Take it up with the Lord!

Peace,
K

Kathi

First of all, I am not currently Pastoring and am not taking a salary. I am at current furthering my theological education!

If I were Pastoring and taking a salary what is that to you?

Secondly, your response about me harrassing you was a reply to the question I asked NH.

So instead of acknowledging that, you give me the third degree. Fine. In fact why don't you show me where I ever “harrased” you?

As far as me being true-ish, I never quote any creeds here. My explanation of the Trinitarian view is from the scriptures and the term Trinitarian is given to me by people like you!

So I do not care what you call me. The Trinitarian view is closer to what I believe and until you can show me that the word “Trinity” or “Trinitarian” is exclusive to creeds then you are just blowing hot air!

The word Trinity came long before the creeds. You should know this. Instead you are questioning the integrity and sincerity of my faith, and that you should take to the Lord!

September 17, 2009 at 4:45 pm#146367

Participant

Like I said…they follow me around from thread to thread (just watch) and the harassing does not stop. They just show up and want to pull punches and their arrogant animations…twisting my words, false assumptions. It is endless! Lord give me a heart to forgive…that is my prayer.

I forgive you Thinker and WJ by faith that God will indeed give me the heart to follow my choice. For now, if you guys want to continue the harassment my response is “take it up with the Lord.” So be it! That is the best way that I know how to be involved here with those who I want to discuss with and those with whom it seems very unfruitful to discuss with.

I am willing to discuss with many on here but thinker-not and WJ, you two take it up with the Lord.

I'm going for peace among the brethren and not continue the down-hill spiral,
Kathi

September 17, 2009 at 4:50 pm#146369

Participant

Kathi said:

Quote

Kathi,
You have some kind of persecution complex.

thinker

September 17, 2009 at 6:08 pm#146379

Participant

Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 17 2009,12:45)

I am willing to discuss with many on here but thinker-not and WJ, you two take it up with the Lord.

I'm going for peace among the brethren and not continue the down-hill spiral,
Kathi

Kathi

Fine! I didn't expect that you would answer me about my sincerity! May God forgive you!

Continue on!

September 17, 2009 at 9:24 pm#146398

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 17 2009,13:50)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 17 2009,06:35)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 16 2009,14:32)

Hi R,
Jesus is the Son of God.
Not another god.

Why are you not making that statement to Kathi?

Is it because of your ant-trinitarian bias?

Hi WJ,
Kathy does not preach a strange tripartite god as you do or the odd community God including angels that TT teaches.

Her belief that Jesus is god lines up with the teaching of Jesus from scripture that men are gods. She is not confused and thinking that Jesus is his own father and god.

Nick,
My God does not include angels as you think. I have said only that the Messenger of Jehovah is Jehovah. This is what all trinitarians believe. That Messenger was Christ. The word “angel” simply means “messenger.” Or did you not know that?

thinker

September 18, 2009 at 5:09 am#146458

Proclaimer

Participant

Quote (thethinker @ Sep. 18 2009,04:50)

Kathi said:

Quote

Kathi,
You have some kind of persecution complex.

thinker

Maybe what she said is true.

This board is actually for believers who don't want to accept the traditions of men. But for some reason, the traditionalists have come here and try in vain to get people to follow the old ways and I agree with Kathi, there is a lot of false assumptions about what we say and teach. A lot of these assumptions are repeated, even though we have explained carefully to some that what we say is in scripture. Then there are the labels, like Polytheists. Yet we teach that which Paul taught and therefore judging us as Polytheists is also judging Paul with the same judgement.

I myself see some who come here as stumbling blocks, or people who try to hinder progress by bringing up the old traditions of the past that BTW, have never worked and resulted in bad fruit.

Anyway, I am not asking anyone to leave, just making a valid point. I think there is some benefit to be had with opposition and there is a comedic angle to the whole thing which does provide at least some entertainment value too.

But the best part is hearing the truth and then watching the truth being apposed as it will. Exposing lies using the scripture is also a good thing and opposition supplies this on tap so we can systematically show it to be false.

Living examples is what I am saying.

Not all who have eyes can see of course.

September 18, 2009 at 10:59 am#146471

karmarie

Participant

I Believe this,

ONE God the Father, AND one Son the word/Jesus, AND one Holy Spirit all different but all the one source, as light comes from a torch, it is not seperate from the torch but proceeds from it, but then again it is not THE torch, but comes from it. Or like the light which proceeds from the sun. The light isnt the sun itself but proceeds from it.

Or As in Diogneteus to Mathetes (written 130 A.D….
…”as a king sends his Son, who is also king, so sent he him, as God he sent him; …”

So whenever you see the name Jesus written as God, this makes perfect sense. As a King sends his son (who is also a King ),
or as say a builder sends his son (who is also a builder ) There is God the Father and God the son.

So, what am I?
A Trinitarian or non?
Cause im not sure what category that is in

September 18, 2009 at 11:21 am#146474

Proclaimer

Participant

I am not sure what you are, but labels are not important compared to what is in your heart.

Carnal men love labels and like to ask if you are a follower of Paul, Peter, Jesus, Athanasius, Arius, etc.

God is the source, and Jesus is the image of God. An image comes from a source. An image is not the source. God is the source because he is the originator of all.

Think about that. Eve is the image/glory of Adam and she is not Adam yet she is adam.
What does this mean?

adam is the same word for man as in mankind. Adam or THE adam is the name of the first man.

The difference is identity versus quality or type.

E.g., Eve is in quality a man(kind). In identity she is Eve, not Adam.

Likewise you can say that Jesus is theos in quality/nature, but you cannot say that he is God in identity because that is the Father.

It is not really hard to grasp, but is only difficult if there is a pre-existent doctrine that blocks one from embracing it.

Jesus existed in the form of God, emptied himself and took on the form of man and now he is back to the glory that he had with the Father before the world began. He is at the right hand of God.

All this shows us that Jesus is not the Almighty God, rather that he is the Word and the firstborn of all creation.

He is the prototype son and the messiah.

If you can accept this, then you believe in the foundation that Jesus built his Church on.

September 18, 2009 at 11:43 am#146479

karmarie

Participant

Thanks t8

September 18, 2009 at 3:47 pm#146498

Participant

Quote (t8 @ Sep. 18 2009,01:09)

Quote (thethinker @ Sep. 18 2009,04:50)

Kathi said:

Quote

Kathi,
You have some kind of persecution complex.

thinker

Maybe what she said is true.

I myself see some who come here as stumbling blocks, or people who try to hinder progress by bringing up the old traditions of the past that BTW, have never worked and resulted in bad fruit.

Living examples is what I am saying.

Not all who have eyes can see of course.

t8,
I'm glad you showed up…thank you

Congrats on your 150,000th post! K

September 21, 2009 at 3:58 pm#146766

Participant

t8 said:

Quote

Exposing lies using the scripture is also a good thing and opposition supplies this on tap so we can systematically show it to be false.

If exposing lies is what you are about then why do you discriminate by exposing only trinitarian “lies?” Kathi's view the Son came out of God's “womb” is thoroughly pagan. Paganism and any other error is acceptable so long as Jesus is kept in His “place.” Right?

Bodhitharta denies that Christ was crucified. He gets a pass because he keeps Jesus in His place.

thinker

September 21, 2009 at 4:09 pm#146769