Proof jesus is god from paul's mouth?

[KangarooJack]

Jodi Lee said:

Quote

Jesus was IN the Father before he even existed, as the human that would come at an appointed time, born of the seed of David, to be a savior for the world

Nonsense!

thinker

[NickHassan]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 08 2009,10:31)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 07 2009,18:28) Hi WJ, So is Jesus the one the Jews called God?[Jn8.54] No Why, are you like the unbelieving Jews that crucified him for claiming he was God? WJ

Hi WJ,
So if Jesus is not the one the Jews called God[jn8.54] has God changed and God now includes God's Son?

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
Did Jesus claim to be God?
Did the Jews just think that and wanted to murder him on false grounds?

[Jodi Lee]

Quote (thethinker @ Sep. 08 2009,11:02)

Jodi Lee said: Quote Jesus was IN the Father before he even existed, as the human that would come at an appointed time, born of the seed of David, to be a savior for the world Nonsense! thinker

So you find scripture to be nonsense? That makes sense given your theology!

It clearly says that he was foreknown but MANIFESTED later. Scripture says the CHRIST was known from the beginning.

Thinker, Christ is the human Messiah, not a pre-existent Son god. Christ came down from heaven, not a god son. The human born of the seed of David came down from heaven, not some son god disguised as a human baby!

[Cindy]

Quote (thethinker @ Sep. 08 2009,10:57)

Quote (Cindy @ Sep. 08 2009,09:37) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 08 2009,09:33) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 07 2009,17:17) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 08 2009,09:04) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 07 2009,17:01) Hi WJ, But you say the man Jesus is God but now it is God who dwells in him? NH Was Jesus merely flesh? WJ Hi WJ, You should know the answer if God dwells also in you.[Eph3] You offer Jesus as God and yet tell us God dwells in him? If God dwells in you does that make you God too? NH Once again. Jesus was in the Father does that mean that the Father was not God! Your logic is weak! WJ W.J.  How do you believe that Jesus was in the Father?  You know that I don't belief in  the trinity and are you saying that? Irene In John 10:37-38 Jesus said that the Father was in Him and He was in the Father. thinker

God's Holy Spirit is also in all of us, after we were Baptized and laid hands on. As far as the name God is concern it is a title our Family of God. We are called Gods Children or Sons. We are the adopted Sons of God, while Jesus is His literal Son by being the firstborn of all creation.
Col.1:15-17
Rev. 3:14
That Jesus was in Heaven with His Father before the world was, Jesus Himself said this in
John 17:5 ” And now O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory I had with You before the world was.
So I do not believe in a trinity, it is a man made doctrine.
Math. 15:9 ” But in vain do they worship me, teaching for the doctrine the commandment of men.”
It is Quintus Septimus Florens Tertullian that first taught that. Rev. tells us to come out of Her My People. So how come you and others still believe in it?
Please ask God to show you, I know how it was for me, coming out of the Catholic Church. And I am forever glad the God showed us.

Peace and Love Irene

[KangarooJack]

Quote (Jodi Lee @ Sep. 08 2009,13:24)

Quote (thethinker @ Sep. 08 2009,11:02) Jodi Lee said: Quote Jesus was IN the Father before he even existed, as the human that would come at an appointed time, born of the seed of David, to be a savior for the world Nonsense! thinker So you find scripture to be nonsense? That makes sense given your theology! It clearly says that he was foreknown but MANIFESTED later. Scripture says the CHRIST was known from the beginning. Thinker, Christ is the human Messiah, not a pre-existent Son god. Christ came down from heaven, not a god son. The human born of the seed of David came down from heaven, not some son god disguised as a human baby!

It is nonsense that a non existent Christ was “in the Father.” All things were created through Christ. So He was pre-existent. When you deny Christ's pre-existence you contradict nearly every page of the new testament. And you can sleep at night?

Please answer my post to you yesterday on the “Angel of Jehovah was Jehovah” thread.

thinker

[KangarooJack]

Irene said:

Quote

We are the adopted Sons of God, while Jesus is His literal Son by being the firstborn of all creation.

Jesus is not God's literal Son. God cannot have sex. The Scripture is clear that Jesus is the Son of God BY DECREE (Psalm 2).

“I will declare THE DECREE, 'You are My Son; today I have begotten you.' “

and,

“Who was DECREED to be the Son of God WITH POWER…. “ (Romans 1:3)

You have been following Kathi's nonsense too long.

thinker

[gollamudi]

Hi brothers and sisters,
Yes Christ was pre-existent in the mind and plan of God to be revealed at the fullness of times as per Gal 4:4.

[KangarooJack]

Quote (gollamudi @ Sep. 08 2009,19:14)

Hi brothers and sisters, Yes Christ was pre-existent in the mind and plan of God to be revealed at the fullness of times as per Gal 4:4.

Galatians does not say that Christ was pre-existent in the plan of God. Paul said that all things were created THROUGH Him. The Father Himself attributed the creation to His hands,

Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
 With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
And:
You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.

Explain how Christ could have laid the foundations of the earth and created the heavens by His own hands if He was not there.

It was the Father who said this who you claim is your God. Do you really want to call your God a liar?

thinker

[Cindy]

Quote (thethinker @ Sep. 08 2009,19:13)

Irene said: Quote We are the adopted Sons of God, while Jesus is His literal Son by being the firstborn of all creation. Jesus is not God's literal Son. God cannot have sex. The Scripture is clear that Jesus is the Son of God BY DECREE (Psalm 2). “I will declare THE DECREE, 'You are My Son; today I have begotten you.' “ and, “Who was DECREED to be the Son of God WITH POWER…. “ (Romans 1:3) You have been following Kathi's nonsense too long. thinker

Did I say that He had sex? No you don't read well, do you. He is the firstborn of all creation. God does not have to have sex to bring forth His Son. He is the Almighty God and He can do anything He wants to. And if you think He can't you are limiting God.
Irene

[KangarooJack]

Quote (Cindy @ Sep. 08 2009,19:31)

Quote (thethinker @ Sep. 08 2009,19:13) Irene said: Quote We are the adopted Sons of God, while Jesus is His literal Son by being the firstborn of all creation. Jesus is not God's literal Son. God cannot have sex. The Scripture is clear that Jesus is the Son of God BY DECREE (Psalm 2). “I will declare THE DECREE, 'You are My Son; today I have begotten you.' “ and, “Who was DECREED to be the Son of God WITH POWER…. “ (Romans 1:3) You have been following Kathi's nonsense too long. thinker Did I say that He had sex?  No you don't read well, do you.  He is the firstborn of all creation. God does not have to have sex to bring forth His Son.  He is the Almighty God and He can do anything He wants to.  And if you think He can't you are limiting God. Irene

You said that Jesus is God's “literal” son. How does someone have a son literally? By having sex of course. Kathi believes that “firstborn” in reference to Jesus means that Christ came out of God's body. Is this what you mean by “firstborn?” Do you believe that Christ literally came out of God's body?

Irene said:

Quote

He is the Almighty God and He can do anything He wants to.  And if you think He can't you are limiting God.

BANG BOOM!    IF GOD CAN DO ANYTHING HE WANTS TO THEN HE CAN BECOME FLESH. RIGHT?

thinker

[Cindy]

Your last statement is rather ridiculous. Jesus or Yeshua at that time was the firstborn of all creation. I am not going to write the Scriptures again, you know what they are. Bang Boom, no God did not become Jesus. Whether begotten or brought forth by the Father in my eyes does not really matter that much, just that Jesus did exist before His Birth as a human, that is important. If God can or what He does is also not the question here. There is no trinity and I and others can prove that. While you and those who do believe in it cannot. For your well being I would study that some more rather then just believe in it.
Math 15:9 And in vain do they worship me, teaching the doctrine the commandments of men.
Start reading from verse 3
With much Love and Peace Irene

[Lightenup]

Quote (thethinker @ Sep. 08 2009,11:06)

Quote (Cindy @ Sep. 08 2009,19:31) Quote (thethinker @ Sep. 08 2009,19:13) Irene said: Quote We are the adopted Sons of God, while Jesus is His literal Son by being the firstborn of all creation. Jesus is not God's literal Son. God cannot have sex. The Scripture is clear that Jesus is the Son of God BY DECREE (Psalm 2). “I will declare THE DECREE, 'You are My Son; today I have begotten you.' “ and, “Who was DECREED to be the Son of God WITH POWER…. “ (Romans 1:3) You have been following Kathi's nonsense too long. thinker Did I say that He had sex?  No you don't read well, do you.  He is the firstborn of all creation. God does not have to have sex to bring forth His Son.  He is the Almighty God and He can do anything He wants to.  And if you think He can't you are limiting God. Irene You said that Jesus is God's “literal” son. How does someone have a son literally? By having sex of course. Kathi believes that “firstborn” in reference to Jesus means that Christ came out of God's body. Is this what you mean by “firstborn?” Do you believe that Christ literally came out of God's body? Irene said: Quote He is the Almighty God and He can do anything He wants to.  And if you think He can't you are limiting God. BANG BOOM!    IF GOD CAN DO ANYTHING HE WANTS TO THEN HE CAN BECOME FLESH. RIGHT? thinker

Thinker not,
Did you miss a Biology class or two? I am not going to begin to say how the process went for God to produce His very own literal offspring. He is not human and does not need to reproduce as a human. But I will tell you that God did design asexual reproduction as well as sexual reproduction. Read and learn:

Quote

Asexual reproduction Main article: Asexual reproduction Asexual reproduction is the process by which an organism creates a genetically-similar or identical copy of itself without a contribution of genetic material from another individual. Bacteria divide asexually via binary fission; viruses take control of host cells to produce more viruses; Hydras (invertebrates of the order Hydroidea) and yeasts are able to reproduce by budding. These organisms do not have different sexes, and they are capable of “splitting” themselves into two or more individuals. Some 'asexual' species, like hydra and jellyfish, may also reproduce sexually. For instance, most plants are capable of vegetative reproduction—reproduction without seeds or spores—but can also reproduce sexually. Likewise, bacteria may exchange genetic information by conjugation. Other ways of asexual reproduction include parthogenesis, fragmentation and spore formation that involves only mitosis. Parthenogenesis (from the Greek παρθένος parthenos, “virgin”, + γένεσις genesis, “creation”) is the growth and development of embryo or seed without fertilization by a male. Parthenogenesis occurs naturally in some species, including lower plants (where it is called apomixis), invertebrates (e.g. water fleas, aphids, some bees and parasitic wasps), and vertebrates (e.g. some reptiles,[1] fish, and, very rarely, birds[2] and sharks[3]). It is sometimes also used to describe reproduction modes in hermaphroditic species which can self-fertilize.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reproduction

You say this out of one side of your mouth:

Quote

BANG BOOM! IF GOD CAN DO ANYTHING HE WANTS TO THEN HE CAN BECOME FLESH. RIGHT?

But then you say that He can't reproduce?

If God can do anything He wants to then He can also reproduce if He wants to and doesn't need anyone's help. It's simple for Him to produce His own offspring with His same nature.

Keep it simple!

[princess of the king]

Quote

BANG BOOM!    IF GOD CAN DO ANYTHING HE WANTS TO THEN HE CAN BECOME FLESH. RIGHT? thinker

it seems you are asking a question

if it be a question;
then ask, seek and knock the answer will be given.

if you are making a statement then your quote should read;
'Bang/Boom, yes he can do anything even come down to earth in the flesh.'

Just simplifying the sentence you produced. Since you are having a hard time understanding it yourself.

kol tuv

[KangarooJack]

Quote (Cindy @ Sep. 09 2009,03:22)

Your last statement is rather ridiculous.  Jesus or Yeshua at that time was the firstborn of all creation.  I am not going to write the Scriptures again, you know what they are.  Bang Boom, no God did not become Jesus.  Whether begotten or brought forth by the Father in my eyes does not really matter that much, just that Jesus did exist before His Birth as a human, that is important.  If God can or what He does is also not the question here.  There is no trinity and I and others can prove that.  While you and those who do believe in it cannot.  For your well being I would study that some more rather then just believe in it. Math 15:9 And in vain do they worship me, teaching the doctrine the commandments of men. Start reading from verse 3 With much Love and Peace Irene

Irene,
So you really didn't mean it when you said that God is not limited. You were not sincere when you said that God can do anything He wants.

Your idea of “firsrtborn” is false. Jesus was the “firstborn” BY DECREE. It means only that He is supreme. That's all. Jacob was not literally the firstborn. He became firstborn because God ordained it by His decree. Therefore, Jacob became the HEAD of the covenantal family.

Firstborn does not mean “first of every creature.” It means “HEAD of every creature.” Paul made it clear by saying that all things were created “FOR” Him and that He is “supreme” and the “HEAD of the body.”

“FIRSTBORN” REFERS TO HIS RANK OVER ALL CREATION AND NOT HIS ORIGIN IN TIME.

You once had the truth and then you trashed it. Now you don't go to church at all but spend your time online speaking a lot of nonsense!

thinker

[Cindy]

Quote (thethinker @ Sep. 09 2009,04:28)

9 Quote (Cindy @ Sep. 09 2009,03:22) Your last statement is rather ridiculous.  Jesus or Yeshua at that time was the firstborn of all creation.  I am not going to write the Scriptures again, you know what they are.  Bang Boom, no God did not become Jesus.  Whether begotten or brought forth by the Father in my eyes does not really matter that much, just that Jesus did exist before His Birth as a human, that is important.  If God can or what He does is also not the question here.  There is no trinity and I and others can prove that.  While you and those who do believe in it cannot.  For your well being I would study that some more rather then just believe in it. Math 15:9 And in vain do they worship me, teaching the doctrine the commandments of men. Start reading from verse 3 With much Love and Peace Irene Irene, So you really didn't mean it when you said that God is not limited. You were not sincere when you said that God can do anything He wants. Your idea of “firsrtborn” is false. Jesus was the “firstborn” BY DECREE. It means only that He is supreme. That's all. Jacob was not literally the firstborn. He became firstborn because God ordained it by His decree. Therefore, Jacob became the HEAD of the covenantal family. Firstborn does not mean “first of every creature.” It means “HEAD of every creature.” Paul made it clear by saying that all things were created “FOR” Him and that He is “supreme” and the “HEAD of the body.” “FIRSTBORN” REFERS TO HIS RANK OVER ALL CREATION AND NOT HIS ORIGIN IN TIME. You once had the truth and then you trashed it. Now you don't go to church at all but spend your time online speaking a lot of nonsense! thinker

Yes, I did mean what I said that God can do anything He wants to. However it also states that God can not look on Sin. And right now all Humans are sinning. That is why God would not come to earth. Only when all have been subject to Jesus, will He give the Kingdom back to God and God will come down with the New Jerusalem. As far as firstborn of all creation, you are interpreting it. By Jesus own words He said this in John 17:5 And now O Father glorify Me together with Yourself with the glory I had with You before the world was.
Jesus was with the Father before the World was.

Also John 1:1 In beginning there was the Word and the Word was God and the Word was with God.
verse 14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us. You are so mixed up, in your beliefs, I have to shake my head. Firstborn is what it says. It is the first Baby as a Human that is born. O.K. thinker why are you getting personal with me. You have no respect whatsoever. Shame on you. I am 71 years old and I don't need that. When you can't understand something you get nasty, very nice of you. Have I ever done that to you???
All that I hope you will do is get away from the trinity so Math. 15: 9 that you will not do that again. That is Scripture that You should take to heart. The Catholic Church and their Daughters will be sorry one of these days. I meant it well with you that maybe, just maybe you would see, but I guess its not going to happen yet. But one day you will, my friend,
Good luck, Irene

[Cindy]

Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 09 2009,03:37)

Quote (thethinker @ Sep. 08 2009,11:06) Quote (Cindy @ Sep. 08 2009,19:31) Quote (thethinker @ Sep. 08 2009,19:13) Irene said: Quote We are the adopted Sons of God, while Jesus is His literal Son by being the firstborn of all creation. Jesus is not God's literal Son. God cannot have sex. The Scripture is clear that Jesus is the Son of God BY DECREE (Psalm 2). “I will declare THE DECREE, 'You are My Son; today I have begotten you.' “ and, “Who was DECREED to be the Son of God WITH POWER…. “ (Romans 1:3) You have been following Kathi's nonsense too long. thinker Did I say that He had sex?  No you don't read well, do you.  He is the firstborn of all creation. God does not have to have sex to bring forth His Son.  He is the Almighty God and He can do anything He wants to.  And if you think He can't you are limiting God. Irene You said that Jesus is God's “literal” son. How does someone have a son literally? By having sex of course. Kathi believes that “firstborn” in reference to Jesus means that Christ came out of God's body. Is this what you mean by “firstborn?” Do you believe that Christ literally came out of God's body? Irene said: Quote He is the Almighty God and He can do anything He wants to.  And if you think He can't you are limiting God. BANG BOOM!    IF GOD CAN DO ANYTHING HE WANTS TO THEN HE CAN BECOME FLESH. RIGHT? thinker Thinker not, Did you miss a Biology class or two?  I am not going to begin to say how the process went for God to produce His very own literal offspring.  He is not human and does not need to reproduce as a human.  But I will tell you that God did design asexual reproduction as well as sexual reproduction.  Read and learn: Quote Asexual reproduction Main article: Asexual reproduction Asexual reproduction is the process by which an organism creates a genetically-similar or identical copy of itself without a contribution of genetic material from another individual. Bacteria divide asexually via binary fission; viruses take control of host cells to produce more viruses; Hydras (invertebrates of the order Hydroidea) and yeasts are able to reproduce by budding. These organisms do not have different sexes, and they are capable of “splitting” themselves into two or more individuals. Some 'asexual' species, like hydra and jellyfish, may also reproduce sexually. For instance, most plants are capable of vegetative reproduction—reproduction without seeds or spores—but can also reproduce sexually. Likewise, bacteria may exchange genetic information by conjugation. Other ways of asexual reproduction include parthogenesis, fragmentation and spore formation that involves only mitosis. Parthenogenesis (from the Greek παρθένος parthenos, “virgin”, + γένεσις genesis, “creation”) is the growth and development of embryo or seed without fertilization by a male. Parthenogenesis occurs naturally in some species, including lower plants (where it is called apomixis), invertebrates (e.g. water fleas, aphids, some bees and parasitic wasps), and vertebrates (e.g. some reptiles,[1] fish, and, very rarely, birds[2] and sharks[3]). It is sometimes also used to describe reproduction modes in hermaphroditic species which can self-fertilize. Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reproduction You say this out of one side of your mouth: Quote BANG BOOM!    IF GOD CAN DO ANYTHING HE WANTS TO THEN HE CAN BECOME FLESH. RIGHT? But then you say that He can't reproduce?   If God can do anything He wants to then He can also reproduce if He wants to and doesn't need anyone's help.  It's simple for Him to produce His own offspring with His same nature. Keep it simple!

Hi Kathi! I hope too that thinker will read all, but I have not to much hope for that He will understand. When their blinded they are blinded. Just like our Son who goes to the Baptist Church. I talked to Him so many times. You can talk to them until you blue in the face, it just will not happen, that they understand. You know what, that shows me, that God has to call you first, to understand Scriptures. That is the only way I can see it.
Peace and Love Irene

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (thethinker @ Sep. 08 2009,11:06)

Quote (Cindy @ Sep. 08 2009,19:31) Quote (thethinker @ Sep. 08 2009,19:13) Irene said: Quote We are the adopted Sons of God, while Jesus is His literal Son by being the firstborn of all creation. Jesus is not God's literal Son. God cannot have sex. The Scripture is clear that Jesus is the Son of God BY DECREE (Psalm 2). “I will declare THE DECREE, 'You are My Son; today I have begotten you.' “ and, “Who was DECREED to be the Son of God WITH POWER…. “ (Romans 1:3) You have been following Kathi's nonsense too long. thinker Did I say that He had sex?  No you don't read well, do you.  He is the firstborn of all creation. God does not have to have sex to bring forth His Son.  He is the Almighty God and He can do anything He wants to.  And if you think He can't you are limiting God. Irene You said that Jesus is God's “literal” son. How does someone have a son literally? By having sex of course. Kathi believes that “firstborn” in reference to Jesus means that Christ came out of God's body. Is this what you mean by “firstborn?” Do you believe that Christ literally came out of God's body? Irene said: Quote He is the Almighty God and He can do anything He wants to.  And if you think He can't you are limiting God. BANG BOOM!    IF GOD CAN DO ANYTHING HE WANTS TO THEN HE CAN BECOME FLESH. RIGHT? thinker

Hi Jack

John 1:1 says…

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the “Word was God.

God was not born and there is no scripture anywhere that says the the Word/God was born or created from the Fathers body!

God was and is an eternal being that cannot change.

Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today and forever!

If Jesus is the “Image of the invisible God”, he is the visible image of God revealing himself to man.

Jesus the “Word” according to John 1:1, 1 John 1:1-3, and Rev 19:13 was and is the “Eternal Life” that was with the Father.

If John was trying to expound that the Word was a begotten God he could have said so, but he didn't.

“THE WORD WAS GOD”

Everything about God, the Word was!

God was and is eternal and the Word was and is eternal.

The burden of proof is on the anti-trinitarians to prove that John 1:1 should be read any different!

Satan has blinded the minds of them that believe not and every tongue that does not confess with their mouth that Jesus is Lord (YHWH) is not speaking by the Spirit! IMO

Jesus said…

You diligently study* the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. “These are the Scriptures that testify about me, yet “you refuse to come **to me** to have life“. John 5:40

They are to blind to see that only God is the source of eternal life, yet Jesus who is the resurection and the life, the eteranl life that was with the Father says to come to him for that life.

“In him (Jesus) was life“, and that life was the light of men. John 1:4

For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for “he wrote of me“. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words? John 5:46, 47

Last I looked Moses was writing about YHWH!

Isaiah 1:18, is the user name for Paul, a solid and well versed believer who used to post here a lot, and used to say…

“Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that “I am” [He], you will die in your sins.” John 8:24

Lots of the Arians, Henotheist and Untarians would get upset at him because he believed that unless they knew who Jesus was they were not saved.

I used to try and give the unbelievers in Jesus as YHWH the benifit of the doubt, but now I believe that it is to serious.

I would turn the other cheek so to speak and accept all of their accusations and name calling as a Trinitarian, but now I feel that the blindness covering their heart to see Jesus for who he is should be exposed and that hopefully they will see their error in bringing the Lord of Glory down to the image of a created thing by reducing “the Image of the invisble God” to something less than God, which IMO is idolatry.

For they are serving more than one who they call divine, while our Lord has said that he is our Lord and Master and that we are to have only one master.

The witness of the Apostles that our Lord is God has been trampled under feet like the swine tramples on priceless pearls.

May God grant mercy and Love to them and open their blind hearts for rejecting the truth of who Jesus really is.

God has made himself visible in the person of Jesus Christ who is Emmanuel, God with us!

WJ

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
As you say God was fully revealed in the vessel of His Son.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 08 2009,17:07)

Hi WJ, As you say God was fully revealed in the vessel of His Son.

NH

What you just said is another way of saying…

God was in the flesh!

WJ

[Author]

Posts