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Quote (david @ Sep. 07 2009,05:42) Quote But David and his Arian friends think that “god” in reference to angels and men implies that Christ is no better because He is also called “God.” –Thinker, page 43
Thinker, do you really believe I or the others on this board believe Christ is “no better” than others that are called gods? (As you know, I'm sure, we all believe that Jesus is the second only to his Father, being “given” all authority in heaven and on earth, by his Father. So, he only has his Father above him.
Or, are you purposely misrepresenting what we believe (creating a false argument) so that you can knock it down?Is that not called a straw man?
David,
I am taking your word for it now that you have never believed that Jesus was no better than Moses. I was not trying to lie about it. I was telling you what I hear. This also comes from discourse with JW's for 35 years. Seeing that you deny that Moses was better than Jesus then explain Keith's point about the NWT in reference to how it applies the word “god” to Moses and Jesus.Keith said:
Quote You know what I find interesting David? You scolded Jack about comparing Jesus to Moses, but look what your own Bible the NWT does… 1 Consequently Jehovah said to Moses: “See, “I have made you **God** to Pharaoh,” and Aaron your own brother will become your prophet. Ex 7:1 NWT
Now, check out this scripture…
1 In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and “the Word was **a god**”
Why is that David? Why does your Bible give the big “G” to Moses without the “a God” and then gives us the “a god” for Jesus with the little “g”?
Somehow David cannot accept that scripturally for believers there are no other gods but “One”.
I have a copy of the NWT. It indeed says “God” in Exodus 7:1 in reference to Moses. But it says “a god” in reference to Jesus (John 1:1). If Jesus is better than Moses as you say you believe, then why is Jesus a lower case sort of God and Moses is “God.”
thinker
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 07 2009,17:49) Hi WJ,
Still wriggling?
Nick, REALLY!Will you give the brother a break and let him debate in peace. If you love him so much as to want to save him from the fire…there is surely a better way to do it?
Love,
MandyHi All
As I have been pondering why it is that David cannot seem to see what I am saying, I noticed a statement that David made that I thought I would address and hope it will shed some light on the discussion!
Quote (david @ Sep. 05 2009,17:09) The Israelites were not to mention the names of the pagan gods—not that they would fail to warn their children about these gods, but they would not mention them with any esteem. (Eph 5:3) The book of Joshua says exactly the same thing, “not to mention the names” of these pagan gods, but it goes further:
Thanks for the reference David!“Now concerning everything which I have said to you, be on your guard; and “DO NOT MENTION THE NAME OF OTHER GODS, NOR LET THEM BE HEARD FROM YOUR MOUTH. Exod 23:13
That ye come not among these nations, these that remain among you; neither “MAKE MENTION OF THE NAME OF THEIR GODS”, nor cause to swear by them, neither serve them, nor bow yourselves unto them: Josh 23:7
David, you said “ not that they would fail to warn their children about these gods, but they would not mention them with any esteem.
Yet you want to call Moses “God” with esteem, right? Did they teach their children that Moses was “a God”?
Wait a minute! I see what is happening now! I am a Monotheist debating with a Polytheist.
Monotheist like Moses and the Hebrews “believe” there is only “One True God” and that all other so-called gods are not gods at all, but only figments of the imaginations of those who “believe” in more than “One True God”.
Polytheists believe there are “other Gods” and not just “One True God”!
So this is why David and I cannot seem to resolve this. David is a Polytheist because he believes in “other gods” or that they are sentient beings that exist! David thinks that because someone is “mighty” or “powerful” then they can be “a God” and infact he thinks the “definition” of God is “Mighty One”.
Well if that is the definition of God then the Bible is full of gods, like Moses, Samson, Elijah, Elisha, David, and including all the wicked kings and judges and on and on.
But why do we not see any examples of any of the Hebrews who were following YHWH calling them “God”?
Polytheism
The worship of or belief in more than one god.
American Heritage Dictionary of the English Languagethe worship of or belief in more than one deity, especially several deities
Encarta® World English Dictionary, North American Edition: belief in or worship of more than one god
Merriam-Webster's Online Dictionary, 11th Editio Source, One LookDavid, like all the other Arians, Polytheist and Henotheist only give lip service to there being only “One True God”, while they claim that there are other “true gods” or “Gods“.
YHWH says no such thing for the Biblical Monotheistic believer!
Isa 46:9
Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and *there is none else*; I am God, and *there is none like me*,Hsa 13:4
Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: *for there is no saviour beside me*.Ye [are] my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: “BEFORE ME THERE WAS **NO GOD FORMED**, NEITHER SHALL THERE BE AFTER ME”. Isa 43:10
“Now concerning everything which I have said to you, be on your guard; and “DO NOT MENTION THE NAME OF OTHER GODS, NOR LET THEM BE HEARD FROM YOUR MOUTH. Exod 23:
The NT Monotheistic believer accepts Paul's words when he says…
So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that an idol is nothing at all in the world and that “THERE IS NO GOD BUT ONE“. For even if there “ARE SO CALLED GODS”, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), 1 Cor 8:4, 5
Can you see how Pauls Monotheistic understanding of God is different than Davids Polytheistic view?
“THERE IS NO GOD BUT ONE“, means exactly what it says, for any others are “so-called gods”.
WJ
David
Quote (david @ Sep. 05 2009,18:04) That Warren Buffet has wealth to a greater degree. This doesn't mean everyone else has “false wealth” does it?
Nope.
WJ, your English is very good. It is your first langauge, I assume.
david
Ok David, lets think about your analogy!We are talking about the “Only True God” right?
The Only True God” is creator and possessor of “all things”, right?
So a true analogy would be that Warren Buffet has “all the wealth, he is Possessor of it all ” so that means that nobody else has wealth at all and even if they claim to have wealth it cannot be “true wealth” for Warren Buffet is possessor of all the wealth!
WJ
Quote (david @ Sep. 05 2009,18:13) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 06 2009,09:51) David Quote (david @ Sep. 05 2009,17:31) WJ, “you are a true trinitarian.”
That doesn't mean everyone else on here who believes in the trinity are “false trinitarians,” does it?
No but if I said…There is only “One True Arian” and you are it”. Then that would mean all other Arians are false or so-called Arians or not Arians at all!
WJ
WJ, I'm afraid you are simply wrong, and by yourself.I just googled “true arian.”
In none of those sites, it in no way meant that the arian was “true” in that other arains were “false.”
In ALL CASES, it meant “true arian” in that they exemplified that quality.
So again, the entire internet and all of human language is on my side. I know you yourself have spoken like this. I almost feel like spending 500 hours and going through your posts, and finding where you did this, because I know you have. We all speak like this….humans, that is.
Hi DavidWhy don't you try “only One True Arian”. You won't find anything because there is nothing to substantiate only one true Arian.
My point was if I say there is “Only One True Arian and you are it” then it would mean “I believe” there is “Only One True Arian” and that unless it is you all others who claim to be Arians are not Arians at all!
You do understand this don't you David? Or will you just throw out somemore smoke and mirrors to sidestep my point!
Now Google “Only One True God” and see if you come up with other “True Gods”!
WJ
thinker,
your statement regarding running a family business, shows fully you have never ran a family business nor worked for one.
Quote (princess of the king @ Sep. 07 2009,15:19) Seriously WJ, You use many different references, what name do you call your god?
YHWH. Jesus Christ, I Am, Jehovah, Emmanual, and many other names that are used in scriptures refering to “the Only True God”.What is the name of your God?
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 08 2009,07:30) Quote (princess of the king @ Sep. 07 2009,15:19) Seriously WJ, You use many different references, what name do you call your god?
YHWH. Jesus Christ, I Am, Jehovah, Emmanual, and many other names that are used in scriptures refering to “the Only True God”.What is the name of your God?
WJ
Hi WJ.
You confuse God with His son.
Ps2Quote (princess of the king @ Sep. 07 2009,15:35) YWHW Who is your savior?
YHWHI, [even] I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour. Isa 43:11
And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard [him] ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world. Jn 40:42
For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Phil 3:20
Do you see that Paul is looking for his Saviour in the verse above?
For he says the same thing here…
while we wait for the blessed hope–the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, Titus 2:13
Notice YHWH said there was no Saviour beside him, yet we see Jesus whos name means YHWH is salvation” as the Saviour beside him!
It is by Jesus name that I am saved!
How about you?
WJ
Hi WJ,
Patchwork theology taped together with foolish greek logic.
When will you seek truth?
When you retire?Quote (princess of the king @ Sep. 07 2009,15:40) what prompted you to begin a theology education?
The Holy Spirit!Why is there something wrong with study and hearing the opinions of others who are gifted teachers given to the church according to Eph 4 and letting the Holy Spirit work through them!
WJ
Quote (princess of the king @ Sep. 07 2009,15:41) the books you study are they only trinity based?
Really I do not study other books. I do not think I have a single book on the Trinity in my library.WJ
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 07 2009,15:57) Hi WJ,
Patchwork theology taped together with foolish greek logic.
When will you seek truth?
When you retire?
LOL, you accuse me of Greek logic and it is you and others here that serve and bow down to more than one master!It is you and others that believe like the Greeks that there are many gods.
WJ
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