- This topic is empty.
- Posts
I googled “the only true.”
“WATER POLO, THE ONLY TRUE COMPETATIVE SPORT.”
When the person said this, they in no way meant that every other sport was a false sport.
They meant….I know you know this….
Their meaning was that Water polo was the most competative or water polo is competative to the ultimate degree.
NOT that every other sport is false.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 06 2009,10:21) Quote (david @ Sep. 05 2009,18:18) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 06 2009,10:14) Quote (david @ Sep. 05 2009,18:04) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 06 2009,09:51) David Quote (david @ Sep. 05 2009,17:31) WJ, “you are a true trinitarian.”
That doesn't mean everyone else on here who believes in the trinity are “false trinitarians,” does it?
No but if I said…There is only “One True Arian” and you are it”. Then that would mean all other Arians are false or so-called Arians or not Arians at all!
WJ
WJ, have you ever listened to people speaking? Talking? Having conversations with one another?Often, they say things like
“You are a true man” (meaning, you represent what the essense of a man is; not meaning “all other men are false men.)
“You are a true friend.”
If you just do a fast “google” on the word “true” you will come up with:
“true poker”
“true love”
“true wealth”
“true color”
etc.
You do understand what those phrases mean, I know you do.
If someone says: “Warren buffet has true wealth” it does not mean that no one else on the planet has wealth or that everyone else on the planet has “FALSE WEALTH.”
You, WJ, would understand that, as everyone else on the planet, you would understand it to mean, not that everyone else has false wealth, but that…..
yes, you know it….
That Warren Buffet has wealth to a greater degree.
This doesn't mean everyone else has “false wealth” does it?
Nope.
WJ, your English is very good. It is your first langauge, I assume.
david
DavidDont you understand the difference in “a true man” and “the only true man”?
I think you are just being argumentive!
WJ
Sure, and when people say: “Warren Buffet is the only true 'buy and hold' investor” they don't mean that all the other millions of 'buy and hold' investors are “false” investors.
DO THEY?
They mean he buys and holds something forever. They mean, he is the ultimate in that respect.
Similarly, Jehovah God (mighty one) is the ultimate in mightiness, (almighty in fact) and hence it can easily be said of him that He is the only true God.
****
If you check your dictionary, you'll find that “true” does not mean: 'the opposite of false.'
DavidBut what does false mean.
It means it is not true!
WJ
I'm wondering if you could finish your thought, or explain what you are trying to say.You seem to be able to look up the word “false.”
Why not try it with “true.”
Are you afraid of what you will find?
Are you afraid you will find more than one meaning?
I'd check Websters, it's “the only true dictionary.”
(And no, I don't mean that all other dictionaries are false disctionaries.)WJ, perhaps, you will understand this, since your avatar is piccard.
Some people, feel that the actor William Shatner will always be the “only true Captain” of the enterprise.
(When people say this, they mean that other captains, such as Piccard (don't know his real name) will come and go, but William Shatner will always be the standard to which everyone else is measured. They mean he was the ultimate, the original, the best….
The DO NOT MEAN that every other captain will be a false captain.
More searches:
“WWB: the only true guide to russia…”
“the only true blues bar.”
“the only true night market.
“Wii is the only true next-gen console …”
“the only true british act.”
mathematicians speak of math as the only true language.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 05 2009,15:41) Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 05 2009,15:36) I have no problem believing that Jesus is my great God and Savior and that His great God is His Father and our Father, our Most High God! You can scream “polytheism” all you want but you really do not understand the unity of the Father and the Son then. If they were not united in love and purpose then you can complain about polytheism but they are. Blessings,
Kathi
Hi KathiI understand the unity of the Father and the Son more than you!
For I believe they are the same being. You cannot get any more ONE than that!
Anyway, if you believe there is more than “One divine being” then scripturally that is Polytheism! Sorry!
There is “No God but One” not One and another one!
WJ
Keith,
All I have to say is that your idea of God looks alot like this:Quote The diagnosis of Dissociative identity disorder is defined by criteria in the American Psychiatric Association's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM). The DSM-II used the term multiple personality disorder, the DSM-III grouped the diagnosis with the other four major dissociative disorders, and the DSM-IV-TR categorizes it as dissociative identity disorder. The ICD-10 continues to list the condition as multiple personality disorder.
The diagnostic criteria in section 300.14 (dissociative disorders) of the DSM-IV require:
The presence of two or more distinct identity or personality states, each with its own relatively enduring pattern of perceiving, relating to, and thinking about the environment and self.
At least two of these identities or personality states recurrently take control of the person's behavior.
Inability to recall important personal information that is too extensive to be explained by ordinary forgetfulness.
The disturbance is not due to the direct physiological effects of a substance (e.g., blackouts or chaotic behavior during alcohol intoxication) or a general medical condition (e.g., complex partial seizures). In children, the symptoms are not attributable to imaginary playmates or other fantasy play.[2] A patient history, x-rays, blood tests, and other procedures can be used to eliminate the possibility that symptoms are due to traumatic brain injury, medication, sleep deprivation, or intoxicants, all of which can mimic symptoms of DID.[3]
Diagnosis should be performed by a psychiatrist or psychologist who may use specially designed interviews (such as the SCID-D) and personality assessment tools to evaluate a person for a dissociative disorder.[3]found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki….ymptoms
Think about it,
KathiWJ, I know you've heard people say: “He's the ONLY TRUE MAN for the job.”
When people say this, WJ, do you think they are saying that every other man is a false man?
Or, WJ, do you think they they mean that this particular man is the most qualified?
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 06 2009,10:18) Quote (Jodi Lee @ Sep. 05 2009,18:10) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 05 2009,11:57) Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 04 2009,19:32) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 05 2009,06:58) “Hi Jodi Jodi wrote:Could you direct me to the scripture in Corinthians you are speaking of?
For he “has put everything under his feet.”* Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ When he has done this, “**then** the Son himself will be made subject to him” who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.. 1 Cor 15:27, 27Read the context and you will see that Jesus has all Authority and Power not that it is just available to him!
All Judgment has been committed to him!
WJ
Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 04 2009,19:32)
Hmmmm. Keith, I think you hilighted the wrong section.
Not so, for the section highlighted part says that Jesus is not subject to the Father!Do you understand what that means?
Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 04 2009,19:32)
“….who put everything under Christ….” WHO was that who did that?
And when did this take place? After he had left everything and received back the Glory he shared with the Father before the foundation of the world!Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 04 2009,19:32)
Jesus would have nothing under him if it wasn't for the Father!!
Then how is he accredited for anything? You give Jesus no credit for nothing when Jesus by his own words stated that he could do what he saw the Father do, and that he had overcome the world, the Father didn't do that!Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 04 2009,19:32)
Jesus may be in charge now…..but he will relinquish that control and give it to the true owner in due time. Jesus is a fill-in; a representative of that power, the son of the one in charge.
Where do the scriptures say he will relinquish his control? Scriptures tell us in Revelation that Jesus will be on the throne forever and the Spirit of God proceeding from him and the Father!For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor,*” Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. “OF THE INCREASE OF HIS GOVERNMENT AND PEACE THERE WILL BE NO END”. He will reign on David's throne and over his kingdom, establishing and upholding it with justice and righteousness from that time on and forever. The zeal of the Lord Almighty will accomplish this. Isa 9:6, 7
His government and peace will be his forever! The Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit as One God shall be all in all!
WJ
1 Corinthians 15:24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. 27 For “He has put all things under His feet.” But when He says “all things are put under Him,” it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. 28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.This is showing exactly my point. The work of Jesus destroying all enemies is EXCEPTED, excepted by the Father, because Jesus is following the Father's will and doing the Father's work. When Jesus has put all things under his feet, he delievers the kingdom to his Father, that is when the Father comes down to dwell and then on earth Jesus himself will have someone who he is subjected to.
The passage clearly shows that there is a hierarchy of power and rulership.
What part of “he delivers the Kingdom to the Father, and is made subject to the Father,”do you have a hard time understanding? The FACT that it doesn't fit with your theology?
You clearly deny scripture WJ, the bible never says for us there exist ONE God, made up of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
1Co 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
Eph 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
Hi JodiQuote (Jodi Lee @ Sep. 05 2009,18:10) What part of “he delivers the Kingdom to the Father, and is made subject to the Father,”do you have a hard time understanding? The FACT that it doesn't fit with your theology? What part of he hasn't yet delivered the Kingdom to the Father and he hasn't yet subjected himself to the Father because not all things are yet under his feet, do you not understand?
WJ
WJ
huh?Jesus is always subject to the Father!
The PLAN of which Jesus carries out, of destroying all enemies, the last being death, is NOT his OWN plan but the Plan of the Father's. Handing over the Kingdom is the plan of the Father's. The Father is NEVER, NEVER subjected to Jesus His son. Jesus is always under the authority of his Father. When Jesus returns ON earth he is the supreme leader on earth, made so by the Father. However when Jesus hands over the Kingdom, and the Father comes down to dwell with us, that makes Jesus no longer the Supreme leader on earth.
If Jesus IS the One True God, who alone is wise, why in the world would he need his Father to tell him h
is own revelation? WJ, I seriously cannot believe that you're falsey trying to claim that when Jesus comes back to destroy all enemies he is only subject to himself. Everything that he does when he returns has been handed to him by the Father. He received orders of what to do when he returns by his Father.Corinthians 15:20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. 27 For “He has put all things under His feet.” But when He says “all things are put under Him,” it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted.
Jesus in the above passage is not being referred to as the One True God that has no one who he is subjected to. The above passage is clearly identifying Jesus as the FIRST MAN raised from the dead the FIRST of MANY other humans who will be raised from the dead.
Hi Jodi,
All will be raised, some in the first resurrection to glory and the rest 1000 years later to condemnation or the possibility of hope according to mercy.[Jn5, Mt25]
After death comes judgementQuote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 06 2009,07:32) Quote (thethinker @ Sep. 05 2009,14:50) TO KEITH: Keith,
I have been contemplating Hebrews quite a bit lately and I have made an observation which I posted in part earlier today. Hebrews chapter two says that Christ was for a little while made “a little lower than the angels.” This is a quote from Psalm 8 inwhich the word “elohim” (god) is used. So Christ was made a little lower than “gods” (angels).But chapter one says that in His exaltation He obtained a name that is “so much better than the angels (gods).” For to which of the angels (gods) did He (the Father) ever say,
“You are My Son; today I have begotten You.”
This means that the name “begotten Son” in reference to Jesus is a name that is FAR SUPERIOR to the name “elohim” (gods) in reference to angels.
“To which of the elohim (gods) did He ever say, “You are My Son; today I have begotten You?”
If the name “Son” in reference to Jesus is far superior than the name “gods” in reference to angels, then the Son is far superior to Moses who was also called a “god.” This really throws a wrench in David's theological works
thinker
JackRemember the word “elohim” is not always interpreted as “God”!
The writer of Hebrews did not bring the word “elohim” over as the word “Theos” which is exclusive in the NT to the “One True God” the Father and Jesus and the rare intances of a false god!
The writer purposly uses the word “aggelos” meaning a messenger or invariably in the NT as Angel!
I believe the writer of Hebrew is giving us the true reading of Psalms 8.
Very often we see the writers of the NT taking the liberty to bring out the true interpretation of a verse from the OT.
No angel of God anywhere is called God by the Father, neither is there an example of a servant of the the most high calling Angels of God “Theos”!
Blessing WJ
WJ,
I agree. But David and his Arian friends think that “god” in reference to angels and men implies that Christ is no better because He is also called “God.”. So I was trying to demonstrate that the word “Son” in reference to Jesus is a far superior to name than the name “god” in reference to angels and men. It is indisutable! For when did the Father ever say to those David thinks are gods, “You are my Son; today I have begotten You.”Moses was not equal in glory to Christ because he was called a “god” to pharoah. For Christ as “Son” is far superior.
And there is also Hebrews 3:3 which I have offered a zillion times and have not been able to find obedience from our Arian friends.
Quote For this One [Jesus] has been counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as He who built the house has more honor than the house. Christ is “COUNTED WORTHY” of more glory than Moses. Yet David in the deceitfulness of his Russelite heart won't obey.
GIVE IT UP DAVID! THE SON OF GOD IS SUPERIOR TO “GODS.”
thinker
Keith,
Seeing how you are out-numbered here, and yet you press on…. I wanted to thank you for at least considering all that is being said from so many different directions. Of course we realize that a lot more folks read here than post, so you are most likely not alone (although it appears that way).
Love,
MandyHi Not3,
The only issue is whether or not Jesus is the one the Jews called their God. The rest is a smokescreen.Quote (david @ Sep. 06 2009,09:40) Mandy, long time…. I'm wondering if you have been paying any attention to mine and keith's conversation. And, any thoughts?
Hi David,Oh, I've been paying attention alright. But listen, when it comes to you and Keith together – I don't stand a chance!
Of course I lean toward your understanding more than I do Keith's. But I was raised with Keith's understanding, so I have empathy (pardon the condescending term, Keith) towards my Trinitarian brother.
The problem I am personally struggling with is that the bible can be interpreted both ways so much of the time. I'm starting to believe the bible is some sort of code book that can be broken through many combinations. It's disheartening.
Love,
MandyQuote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 06 2009,11:53) Hi Not3,
The only issue is whether or not Jesus is the one the Jews called their God. The rest is a smokescreen.
I don't believe the Jews thought for one minute that Jesus was God! Jesus threatened them – their way of life – their pocketbooks. But they didn't believe him to be Almighty.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 06 2009,09:45) Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 05 2009,17:38) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 06 2009,09:17) Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 05 2009,17:06) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 06 2009,07:41) Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 05 2009,15:36) I have no problem believing that Jesus is my great God and Savior and that His great God is His Father and our Father, our Most High God! You can scream “polytheism” all you want but you really do not understand the unity of the Father and the Son then. If they were not united in love and purpose then you can complain about polytheism but they are. Blessings,
Kathi
Hi KathiI understand the unity of the Father and the Son more than you!
For I believe they are the same being. You cannot get any more ONE than that!
Anyway, if you believe there is more than “One divine being” then scripturally that is Polytheism! Sorry!
There is “No God but One” not One and another one!
WJ
Can the same “being” have two minds?
Can the same “being” have two wills?
Can the same “being” be both human, and not a human?{{{shaking head}}}
Love,
Mandy
MandyYou are a tripart being! You are a Spirit that has a soul and lives in a body.
God is far more complex than we are.
Does your body want to dictate to you what to do?
Do you have what scriptures call a a New man and an Old man?
WJ
Bro,My spirit does not have a separate will from my mind. I operate as one “being”.
My fesh does not seek out anything that my soul does't desire. I operate as one “being”.
However, Jesus did wish things differently from the Father. He is quoted as saying things like, “…not my will, but yours [Father]…”, “…if it were possible for this cup to pass…”, and so on. Clearly demonstrating to us that he had other ideas but was an obedient son/servant.
Paul discussed the struggle between the spirit and flesh regarding sin, but he was not using that as an example of how we are seperate “beings” within ourselves.
Love,
Mandy
MandyRead romans 7 and see what Paul says about the war in his mind and Spirit!
WJ
Romans 7, in part21So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22For in my inner being I delight in God's law; 23but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. 24What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.Keith,
Are you trying to suggest that the “different members” are a seperate “being” within us? I'm confused.Your original point was that we are trifold beings, if memory serves. My response to that was that even though we are made up of mind, body, spirit – each of those “parts” within me are not seperart “beings”. And I don't believe Paul is teaching that either.
Love,
MandyTO ALL:
The first Christians were being changed from the image of Moses to the image of Christ.2 Corinthians 3:7-18:
Quote
7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. 10 For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels. 11 For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious.
12 Therefore, since we have such hope, we use great boldness of speech— 13 unlike Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away. 14 But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ. 15 But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart. 16Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.Observations:
1. The ministry of Moses was the ministry OF DEATH, vs. 7
2. The glory of Moses was a glory that was PASSING AWAY, vs. 7
3. The ministry of righteousness (Christ) EXCEEDS MUCH MORE IN GLORY, vs. 9
4. The temporal glory of Moses was being replaced by Christ's ENDURING GLORY WHICH WAS BETTER, vs. 11
5. Those who cling to the glory of Moses have a VEIL ON THEIR HEARTS, vs. 15
6. When one turns to Christ the VEIL IS TAKEN AWAY, vs. 16
7. When the veil is taken away from a man's heart that man is transformed from the image of Moses TO THE IMAGE OF CHRIST, vs. 18Conclusion: The glory of Christ is superior to the glory of Moses.
thinker
Hi not 3,
They knew he wasn't and Jesus confirmed that in Jn8.54.
Thy wanted to kill him because they thought he claimed to be God but he never did.
He did say he is the Son of God but getting men to believe him when it threatens their trinity foundation is not easy.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 06 2009,12:09) Hi not 3,
They knew he wasn't and Jesus confirmed that in Jn8.54.
Thy wanted to kill him because they thought he claimed to be God but he never did.
He did say he is the Son of God but getting men to believe him when it threatens their trinity foundation is not easy.
As you know Nick, those foundations can run pretty darn deep. Most folks have a lot invested in their Trinity dogma (job, family, church, support, vows, and the list goes on).I can only speak for myself when I say that one day I believed the Trinity, and the next day (after reading the NT, and re-reading it for 24 hours), I was no longer a Trinitarian.
I thought my “eyes had been opened”, but to a Trinitarian my eyes were deceived and I am in darkness. Sigh……
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 06 2009,12:31) Hi not3,
Does their views make you feel insecure?
No, but the bible does!
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
