Proof jesus is god from paul's mouth?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 04 2009,18:08)

Hi WJ, So Jesus is at the Right hand of God. And yet you think God is a trinity?

NH

Actually Jesus can be anywhere and everywhere at the same time, at will!

Can a mere man do that?

WJ

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
Really?
He is in his body but is he in the unsaved?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 04 2009,18:14)

Hi WJ, Really? He is in his body but is he in the unsaved?

NH

Your point is? Is the Father in the body of the unsaved?

If he wanted to be he could be for he upholds all things by the word of his power.

He is the source of the life of the saved and unsaved!

He holds everything together, for by him all things consist.

That means that the molecular structure of the entire universe is held together by him including every cell right down to every atom in every man or creatures body!

Can a mere man do that?

What other way will you find to reduce Jesus after your own image?

WJ

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
No.
God's breath given to Adam sustains them but God is in His children.
He is near to all as Paul told the Athenians but rebirth of His Spirit is what men must seek.
Scripture says in many places that Jesus is man but would you prefer him to be his own and our God?

[Not3in1]

Quote (thethinker @ Sep. 05 2009,09:03)

Jodi Lee said: Quote Jesus does not have God's powers so that Jesus may use it when, where and how he wants. Jesus uses God's powers to carry out God's plan. Jodi, Christ does not merely have a derived power from God. He IS the power of God: Quote 22For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; 23 but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness, 24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the POWER of God and the wisdom of God. (1 corinthians 1:22-24) thinker

True, Jesus is the power of God.

But the Father gave him that power.

Jesus told us himself that he can do nothing of himself.

Do you not believe Jesus? Was Jesus just being modest?

[Not3in1]

Quote (thethinker @ Sep. 05 2009,06:46)

Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 05 2009,06:36) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 05 2009,04:50) Hi Jodi Quote (Jodi Lee @ Sep. 04 2009,12:37) There exist NO OTHER where power, wisdom and authority ORIGINATES, anyone with such things RECEIVES them from YHWH, and not only that but they use them according to the will and directions of YHWH!! Have you forgotten that Paul says in Corinthians that Jesus is not subject to the Father at this time? Jesus is in the throne with all Judgment, authorities and powers subject to him! And you want to compare him to Moses or some mere prophet?   WJ But Jesus will turn everything over to the Father so he (the One True God) will be all in all. Yeah! The Father WILL BE all in all. Until then Jesus is all in all. It is what Jesus is NOW that concerns you. Jesus is not a false God now. Right? thinker

Jesus – a false god? No, no, of course not!

He is not a God at all!

He has his own mind (different from the Father), his own will (different from the Father), he has a human body (the Father is not a human).

[Not3in1]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 05 2009,06:58)

“Hi Jodi Quote (Jodi Lee @ Sep. 04 2009,14:00) Could you direct me to the scripture in Corinthians you are speaking of? For he “has put everything under his feet.”* Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ When he has done this, “**then** the Son himself will be made subject to him” who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.. 1 Cor 15:27, 27 Read the context and you will see that Jesus has all Authority and Power not that it is just available to him! All Judgment has been committed to him! WJ

Hmmmm. Keith, I think you hilighted the wrong section.

“….who put everything under Christ….” WHO was that who did that?

Jesus would have nothing under him if it wasn't for the Father!!

Jesus may be in charge now…..but he will relinquish that control and give it to the true owner in due time. Jesus is a fill-in; a representative of that power, the son of the one in charge.

[Cindy]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 05 2009,05:29)

Quote (Cindy @ Sep. 04 2009,13:13) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 05 2009,04:54) Irene A Polytheist is someone who believes in or worships more than one God! Jesus is either The “One True God” with the Father and the Holy Spirit or he is not God at all. Because if you say that he is “a god” then that is Polytheism! WJ No, that is a Family name or a title.  Not two Gods or Almighty God the Father.  There is only One God and Father of all,  That I know but you still don't say what we should do with those Scriptures that I quoted.  All you can do is call me Polytheist, and that is false, because I do not worship the Son. And I don't believe in the trinity either.  You believe in the trinity.  So what should I call you?  The Holy Spirit is not a Person  either .  It is the Spirit of the Father. I am really getting tired so I will get of this computer for awhile.  Good Luck. Irene Hi Irene Where is the definition of God being “a Family name or a title”? WJ

I meant LORD and that is written in Capital Letters and Lord is Jesus.  We also know that the Father is greater then the Son.  As far as the title is concerned do you have a last name?  I do and it is the title of our Family.  Just like it is the title of God's Family.  That is just common sense.  We are the Children or Sons of God, the Family of God.  Since there are Scriptures that tell me that the Father is greater then all of His Children, that is what makes more sense then believing in a trinity, which you cannot prove.  I will list all Scriptures that show that the trinity is wrong.
Deut. $:35
Deut. 6:4
1 Corinth; 8:4
Ephesians 4:6
And by Jesus own words
John 14:28
Now it's your turn show me that there is a trinity?
One more thing, if the Spirit of God would be a person then He is the Father of Jesus.  But that is not so.  The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God the Father
Also
1Corinth. 11:3 says this the head of every man is Christ, the head of a woman is man,and the head of Christ is God.
No trinity.

Peace and Love Irene

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 04 2009,19:23)

Quote (thethinker @ Sep. 05 2009,09:03) Jodi Lee said: Quote Jesus does not have God's powers so that Jesus may use it when, where and how he wants. Jesus uses God's powers to carry out God's plan. Jodi, Christ does not merely have a derived power from God. He IS the power of God: Quote 22For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; 23 but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness, 24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the POWER of God and the wisdom of God. (1 corinthians 1:22-24) thinker True, Jesus is the power of God. But the Father gave him that power. Jesus told us himself that he can do nothing of himself. Do you not believe Jesus?  Was Jesus just being modest?

Mandy

Are you still living in the time of Jesus flesh?

Jesus is not in the flesh any longer, he emptied himself and came in the likeness of sinful flesh and was found in fashion as a man! Phil 2 He is exalted now.

Jesus didn't do anything on his “own initiative” but said that he did what he saw the Father do!

So when Jesus raised the dead, it was “Jesus” who raised the dead because he saw the Father doing the same thing!

What other man could see anything the Father is doing and do it?

Jesus gave them this answer: “I tell you the truth, “the Son can do nothing **by himself**; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, “because whatever (equality) the Father does **the Son also does**. John 5:19

Why try and negate what Jesus does which no other man could do?

He was not some puppet on a string. The fact that Jesus said he could do what the Father does shows his equality with the Father!

WJ

[Cindy]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 05 2009,11:40)

Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 04 2009,19:23) Quote (thethinker @ Sep. 05 2009,09:03) Jodi Lee said: Quote Jesus does not have God's powers so that Jesus may use it when, where and how he wants. Jesus uses God's powers to carry out God's plan. Jodi, Christ does not merely have a derived power from God. He IS the power of God: Quote 22For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; 23 but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness, 24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the POWER of God and the wisdom of God. (1 corinthians 1:22-24) thinker True, Jesus is the power of God. But the Father gave him that power. Jesus told us himself that he can do nothing of himself. Do you not believe Jesus?  Was Jesus just being modest? Mandy Are you still living in the time of Jesus flesh? Jesus is not in the flesh any longer, he emptied himself and came in the likeness of sinful flesh and was found in fashion as a man! Phil 2 He is exalted now. Jesus didn't do anything on his “own initiative” but said that he did what he saw the Father do! So when Jesus raised the dead, it was “Jesus” who raised the dead because he saw the Father doing the same thing! What other man could see anything the Father is doing and do it? Jesus gave them this answer: “I tell you the truth, “the Son can do nothing **by himself**; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, “because whatever (equality) the Father does **the Son also does**. John 5:19 Why try and negate what Jesus does which no other man could do? He was not some puppet on a string. The fact that Jesus said he could do what the Father does shows his equality with the Father! WJ

That does not prove that Jesus is equal with the Father.  What He received after His resurrection is now He cannot die any more.  And why would He be our Mediator to go to the Father if we just could go to Jesus for all.  No Jesus has never been as greater as the Father and never will be either. In John 17:5 He says this
” And now O Father glorify Me together with Yourself with the glory which I has with you before the world was.”
Also in1 Corinth.1529 He says this
“Now when all things have been made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God will be all in all. I answered for Mandy since She left and who knows when She will come back. I know what She beliefs, so I did answer for Her.
Irene

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 04 2009,19:32)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 05 2009,06:58) “Hi Jodi Jodi wrote: Could you direct me to the scripture in Corinthians you are speaking of? For he “has put everything under his feet.”* Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ When he has done this, “**then** the Son himself will be made subject to him” who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.. 1 Cor 15:27, 27 Read the context and you will see that Jesus has all Authority and Power not that it is just available to him! All Judgment has been committed to him! WJ

Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 04 2009,19:32)

Hmmmm.  Keith, I think you hilighted the wrong section.

Not so, for the section highlighted part says that Jesus is not subject to the Father!

Do you understand what that means?

Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 04 2009,19:32)

“….who put everything under Christ….”  WHO was that who did that?

And when did this take place? After he had left everything and received back the Glory he shared with the Father before the foundation of the world!

Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 04 2009,19:32)

Jesus would have nothing under him if it wasn't for the Father!!

Then how is he accredited for anything? You give Jesus no credit for nothing when Jesus by his own words stated that he could do what he saw the Father do, and that he had overcome the world, the Father didn't do that!

Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 04 2009,19:32)

Jesus may be in charge now…..but he will relinquish that control and give it to the true owner in due time.  Jesus is a fill-in; a representative of that power, the son of the one in charge.

Where do the scriptures say he will relinquish his control? Scriptures tell us in Revelation that Jesus will be on the throne forever and the Spirit of God proceeding from him and the Father!

For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor,*” Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. “OF THE INCREASE OF HIS GOVERNMENT AND PEACE THERE WILL BE NO END”. He will reign on David's throne and over his kingdom, establishing and upholding it with justice and righteousness from that time on and forever. The zeal of the Lord Almighty will accomplish this. Isa 9:6, 7

His government and peace will be his forever! The Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit as One God shall be all in all!

WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Cindy @ Sep. 04 2009,19:52)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 05 2009,11:40) Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 04 2009,19:23) Quote (thethinker @ Sep. 05 2009,09:03) Jodi Lee said: Quote Jesus does not have God's powers so that Jesus may use it when, where and how he wants. Jesus uses God's powers to carry out God's plan. Jodi, Christ does not merely have a derived power from God. He IS the power of God: Quote 22For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; 23 but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness, 24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the POWER of God and the wisdom of God. (1 corinthians 1:22-24) thinker True, Jesus is the power of God. But the Father gave him that power. Jesus told us himself that he can do nothing of himself. Do you not believe Jesus?  Was Jesus just being modest? Mandy Are you still living in the time of Jesus flesh? Jesus is not in the flesh any longer, he emptied himself and came in the likeness of sinful flesh and was found in fashion as a man! Phil 2 He is exalted now. Jesus didn't do anything on his “own initiative” but said that he did what he saw the Father do! So when Jesus raised the dead, it was “Jesus” who raised the dead because he saw the Father doing the same thing! What other man could see anything the Father is doing and do it? Jesus gave them this answer: “I tell you the truth, “the Son can do nothing **by himself**; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, “because whatever (equality) the Father does **the Son also does**. John 5:19 Why try and negate what Jesus does which no other man could do? He was not some puppet on a string. The fact that Jesus said he could do what the Father does shows his equality with the Father! WJ That does not prove that Jesus is equal with the Father.  What He received after His resurrection is now He cannot die any more.  And why would He be our Mediator to go to the Father if we just could go to Jesus for all.  No Jesus has never been as greater as the Father and never will be either. In John 17:5 He says this ” And now O Father glorify Me together with Yourself with the glory which I has with you before the world was.” Also in1 Corinth.1529 He says this “Now when all things have been made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God will be all in all.  I answered for Mandy since She left and who knows when She will come back.  I know what She beliefs, so I did answer for Her. Irene

Irene

If he is not at this time subject to the Father then he is equal to the Father.

I know this is so hard for the Arians to accept, for it is like a bitter pill.

To think that Jesus is so highly exalted, when he is just supposed to be another man. To bad this makes you feel so bad.

WJ

[Cindy]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 05 2009,12:03)

Quote (Cindy @ Sep. 04 2009,19:52) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 05 2009,11:40) Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 04 2009,19:23) Quote (thethinker @ Sep. 05 2009,09:03) Jodi Lee said: Quote Jesus does not have God's powers so that Jesus may use it when, where and how he wants. Jesus uses God's powers to carry out God's plan. Jodi, Christ does not merely have a derived power from God. He IS the power of God: Quote 22For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; 23 but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness, 24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the POWER of God and the wisdom of God. (1 corinthians 1:22-24) thinker True, Jesus is the power of God. But the Father gave him that power. Jesus told us himself that he can do nothing of himself. Do you not believe Jesus?  Was Jesus just being modest? Mandy Are you still living in the time of Jesus flesh? Jesus is not in the flesh any longer, he emptied himself and came in the likeness of sinful flesh and was found in fashion as a man! Phil 2 He is exalted now. Jesus didn't do anything on his “own initiative” but said that he did what he saw the Father do! So when Jesus raised the dead, it was “Jesus” who raised the dead because he saw the Father doing the same thing! What other man could see anything the Father is doing and do it? Jesus gave them this answer: “I tell you the truth, “the Son can do nothing **by himself**; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, “because whatever (equality) the Father does **the Son also does**. John 5:19 Why try and negate what Jesus does which no other man could do? He was not some puppet on a string. The fact that Jesus said he could do what the Father does shows his equality with the Father! WJ That does not prove that Jesus is equal with the Father.  What He received after His resurrection is now He cannot die any more.  And why would He be our Mediator to go to the Father if we just could go to Jesus for all.  No Jesus has never been as greater as the Father and never will be either. In John 17:5 He says this ” And now O Father glorify Me together with Yourself with the glory which I has with you before the world was.” Also in1 Corinth.1529 He says this “Now when all things have been made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God will be all in all.  I answered for Mandy since She left and who knows when She will come back.  I know what She beliefs, so I did answer for Her. Irene Irene If he is not at this time subject to the Father then he is equal to the Father. I know this is so hard for the Arians to accept, for it is like a bitter pill. To think that Jesus is so highly exalted, when he is just supposed to be another man. To bad this makes you feel so bad. WJ

W.J. You know in the past I have always liked you, but lately you are calling me and others names, why? Is that so necessary for you to do?
Do you know what I do with someone who does so, I say Goodbye. I like a good debate. but if it gets personal, nnnnnoooo.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Cindy @ Sep. 04 2009,20:20)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 05 2009,12:03) Quote (Cindy @ Sep. 04 2009,19:52) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 05 2009,11:40) Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 04 2009,19:23) Quote (thethinker @ Sep. 05 2009,09:03) Jodi Lee said: Quote Jesus does not have God's powers so that Jesus may use it when, where and how he wants. Jesus uses God's powers to carry out God's plan. Jodi, Christ does not merely have a derived power from God. He IS the power of God: Quote 22For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; 23 but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness, 24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the POWER of God and the wisdom of God. (1 corinthians 1:22-24) thinker True, Jesus is the power of God. But the Father gave him that power. Jesus told us himself that he can do nothing of himself. Do you not believe Jesus?  Was Jesus just being modest? Mandy Are you still living in the time of Jesus flesh? Jesus is not in the flesh any longer, he emptied himself and came in the likeness of sinful flesh and was found in fashion as a man! Phil 2 He is exalted now. Jesus didn't do anything on his “own initiative” but said that he did what he saw the Father do! So when Jesus raised the dead, it was “Jesus” who raised the dead because he saw the Father doing the same thing! What other man could see anything the Father is doing and do it? Jesus gave them this answer: “I tell you the truth, “the Son can do nothing **by himself**; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, “because whatever (equality) the Father does **the Son also does**. John 5:19 Why try and negate what Jesus does which no other man could do? He was not some puppet on a string. The fact that Jesus said he could do what the Father does shows his equality with the Father! WJ That does not prove that Jesus is equal with the Father.  What He received after His resurrection is now He cannot die any more.  And why would He be our Mediator to go to the Father if we just could go to Jesus for all.  No Jesus has never been as greater as the Father and never will be either. In John 17:5 He says this ” And now O Father glorify Me together with Yourself with the glory which I has with you before the world was.” Also in1 Corinth.1529 He says this “Now when all things have been made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God will be all in all.  I answered for Mandy since She left and who knows when She will come back.  I know what She beliefs, so I did answer for Her. Irene Irene If he is not at this time subject to the Father then he is equal to the Father. I know this is so hard for the Arians to accept, for it is like a bitter pill. To think that Jesus is so highly exalted, when he is just supposed to be another man. To bad this makes you feel so bad. WJ W.J.  You know in the past I have always liked you, but lately you are calling me and others names, why?  Is that so necessary for you to do? Do you know what I do with someone who does so, I say Goodbye. I like a good debate. but if it gets personal, nnnnnoooo.

Irene

I am sorry you are offended!

The things I call you is what you believe.

If you do not believe that Jesus is God, then you are in the camp of the Arians. Arians disputed the Trinity!

If you believe there are other gods then the definition of that is Poytheism.

These are not names, they are titles describing ones beliefs thats all!

WJ

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
Men can be gods according to Jesus so the real issue is Jesus the God of Israel or of US who are in him?

No for US there is one God, the Father of Jesus Christ, the same God of Israel[Jn8.54, 1Cor8]

The rest is smoke and mirrors and labelling others to hide your falsehoods.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 05 2009,00:41)

Hi WJ, Men can be gods according to Jesus so the real issue is Jesus the God of Israel or of US who are in him? No for US there is one God, the Father of Jesus Christ, the same God of Israel[Jn8.54, 1Cor8] The rest is smoke and mirrors and labelling others to hide your falsehoods.

NH

Why do you accuse Jesus of contradicting the Hebrew scriptures?

Jesus did not promote Polytheism.

“Now concerning everything which I have said to you, be on your guard; and “DO NOT MENTION THE NAME OF OTHER GODS, NOR LET THEM BE HEARD FROM YOUR MOUTH. Exod 23:13

Paul had direct revelation from Jesus and said…

So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that an idol is nothing at all in the world and that “THERE IS NO GOD BUT ONE“. For even if there “ARE SO CALLED GODS”, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), 1 Cor 8:4, 5

Paul says there are no gods but one and you say…

“Men can be gods“

If that is true, let me hear you say “Jesus is a god”!

WJ

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
Are you saying that if like other men spoken of by Jesus he is a god then will you agree he is not the God of Israel?
Will you then agree that the trinity is a sham?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 05 2009,01:13)

Hi WJ, Are you saying that if like other men spoken of by Jesus he is a god then will you agree he is not the God of Israel? Will you then agree that the trinity is a sham?

NH

No, I am saying that you talk double talk!

You say men can be gods like Moses and yet you cannot call Jesus God!

You speak with a forked tongue! IMO

WJ

[david]

Quote

NH No, I am saying that you talk double talk! You say men can be gods like Moses and yet you cannot call Jesus God! You speak with a forked tongue! IMO WJ

I think part of that lies in what other people believe. Example: So many people think that “hell” means “hellfire” whereas “hades/sheol” (hell) is just the grave. So, although we could use the word “hell” it would give people the wrong idea.

Since so many people believe Jesus is Almighty God, if we refer to him as God, people would think we meant he was “The God.” So, it's a catch 22.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (david @ Sep. 05 2009,01:26)

Quote NH No, I am saying that you talk double talk! You say men can be gods like Moses and yet you cannot call Jesus God! You speak with a forked tongue! IMO WJ I think part of that lies in what other people believe.  Example:  So many people think that “hell” means “hellfire” whereas “hades/sheol” (hell) is just the grave.  So, although we could use the word “hell” it would give people the wrong idea. Since so many people believe Jesus is Almighty God, if we refer to him as God, people would think we meant he was “The God.”  So, it's a catch 22.

Hi David

Exactly, and yet the Father, and the Apostles like John, Thomas, Luke, Paul, and Peter inspired of the Holy Spirit penned the words that Jesus was God, and some with the definite article!

They were not afraid of a catch 22!

WJ

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