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Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 05 2009,06:36) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 05 2009,04:50) Hi Jodi Quote (Jodi Lee @ Sep. 04 2009,12:37) There exist NO OTHER where power, wisdom and authority ORIGINATES, anyone with such things RECEIVES them from YHWH, and not only that but they use them according to the will and directions of YHWH!!
Have you forgotten that Paul says in Corinthians that Jesus is not subject to the Father at this time?Jesus is in the throne with all Judgment, authorities and powers subject to him!
And you want to compare him to Moses or some mere prophet?
WJ
But Jesus will turn everything over to the Father so he (the One True God) will be all in all.
Yeah! The Father WILL BE all in all. Until then Jesus is all in all. It is what Jesus is NOW that concerns you. Jesus is not a false God now. Right?thinker
Hi Jodi
Quote (Jodi Lee @ Sep. 04 2009,14:00) Could you direct me to the scripture in Corinthians you are speaking of?
For he “has put everything under his feet.”* Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ When he has done this, “**then** the Son himself will be made subject to him” who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.. 1 Cor 15:27, 27Read the context and you will see that Jesus has all Authority and Power not that it is just available to him!
All Judgment has been committed to him!
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 05 2009,06:58) Hi Jodi Quote (Jodi Lee @ Sep. 04 2009,14:00) Could you direct me to the scripture in Corinthians you are speaking of?
For he “has put everything under his feet.”* Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ When he has done this, “**then** the Son himself will be made subject to him” who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.. 1 Cor 15:27, 27Read the context and you will see that Jesus has all Authority and Power not that it is just available to him!
All Judgment has been committed to him!
WJ
What do you mean JUST AVAILABLE to him?God gives auhtority to Jesus so that Jesus may carry out the Father's Will. Jesus is God's represenative. Like I said Jesus is said to be the MAN after his resurrection, who is our mediator and servant of God.
Jesus does not have God's powers so that Jesus may use it when, where and how he wants. Jesus uses God's powers to carry out God's plan.
Remember, Revelation 1 tells us that Jesus can't even make his OWN revelation he has to receive it from his Father. That revelation coming from the Father reveals what Jesus will do with God's powers.
How exactly do you see that 1 Corinthians 15 shows that Jesus is the One True God?
Hi Jodi
Quote (Jodi Lee @ Sep. 04 2009,15:19) How exactly do you see that 1 Corinthians 15 shows that Jesus is the One True God?
Because no finite created being could be “infinite” in Power, Authority, Wisdom and Knowledge and Glory unless he is God!By Jesus who is before all things, all things consist, (Col 1:17) and by Jesus all things are upheld by the word of “his” Power! (Heb 1:3)
Little wonder the Father calls him “O God”, (Heb 1:8) and then attributes the entire creation as being the works of Jesus hands. (Heb 1:8)
Just consider what it takes to hold the entire universe together, and to be everywhere at the same time and to hear the prayers and cries of his sheep, and to bear the burdens of any and all that call on him, and to fulfill his promise that “he” Jesus would never leave us or forsake us!
Only “a God” can do that, but since we know that there is only “One True God” taught in scriptures, then we like the Apostle Paul can say…
while we wait for the blessed hope–the glorious appearing of “our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ“, Titus 2:13
WJ
Hi WJ,
So by inference you think the one given everything by the one true God also must be Him?
The logic is getting very thin.Hi Jodi
Quote (Jodi Lee @ Sep. 04 2009,15:19) What do you mean JUST AVAILABLE to him?
I mean that Jesus has it all, which means at this present time he stands beside the Father as equal to him.However, you and others seem to imply that Jesus doesn't have all authority and power but is submitted to the Father and therefore cannot act on his own.
If he can act on his own having all authority, then he is God, for no other being could do that!
WJ
Hi WJ,
Really?
The one blessed is less than the one who blesses.[Heb7]How can there be equality between two if they are the one God?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 04 2009,16:06) Hi WJ,
Really?
The one blessed is less than the one who blesses.[Heb7]How can there be equality between two if they are the one God?
Hi NHQuote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 04 2009,16:06) How can there be equality between two if they are the one God? Exactly!
You just answered your own question!
WJ
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 04 2009,16:06) Hi WJ,
Really?
The one blessed is less than the one who blesses.[Heb7]How can there be equality between two if they are the one God?
NHAre you saying the Father is not “Blessed”?
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 05 2009,07:54) Hi Jodi Quote (Jodi Lee @ Sep. 04 2009,15:19) What do you mean JUST AVAILABLE to him?
I mean that Jesus has it all, which means at this present time he stands beside the Father as equal to him.However, you and others seem to imply that Jesus doesn't have all authority and power but is submitted to the Father and therefore cannot act on his own.
If he can act on his own having all authority, then he is God, for no other being could do that!
WJ
WJ, what you are saying does not reflect scripture.The One True God is capable of giving His powers, just because Jesus the MAN is ABLE to receive those powers and use them does not mean that he is the One True God. What a confusing mess you make everything out to be IMO. The entire bible would have to be written completely different to reflect your belief.
Jesus has all power and authority over US, not over the Father, and this power is shown clearly to be GIVEN to him by the Father! Now why would he need to be GIVEN it, if he were the One True God? Why would Jesus need the Father to give him his own revelation if what you say is true?
Jesus AFTER his resurrection is said to BE the SERVANT of the FATHER, the Father is still sending him and using him to do things FOR Himself. Jesus is not acting on his own, stick with scripture, he is God's mediator and servant. Jesus calls the Father His God and our God. Jesus is NOT his own god, he is not his own father, and scripture tells us that for US there is One God who is the Father.
1Co 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
Eph 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
WJ, the above scriptures DON”T contain Jesus in the identity of the One God who is above all!
Hi WJ,
It is our pleasant duty to offer in our temples a sacrifice of praise to our God and to bless him with our mouths.When will you turn back from following rebellious men?
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 05 2009,07:43) Hi Jodi Quote (Jodi Lee @ Sep. 04 2009,15:19) How exactly do you see that 1 Corinthians 15 shows that Jesus is the One True God?
Because no finite created being could be “infinite” in Power, Authority, Wisdom and Knowledge and Glory unless he is God!By Jesus who is before all things, all things consist, (Col 1:17) and by Jesus all things are upheld by the word of “his” Power! (Heb 1:3)
Little wonder the Father calls him “O God”, (Heb 1:8) and then attributes the entire creation as being the works of Jesus hands. (Heb 1:8)
Just consider what it takes to hold the entire universe together, and to be everywhere at the same time and to hear the prayers and cries of his sheep, and to bear the burdens of any and all that call on him, and to fulfill his promise that “he” Jesus would never leave us or forsake us!
Only “a God” can do that, but since we know that there is only “One True God” taught in scriptures, then we like the Apostle Paul can say…
while we wait for the blessed hope–the glorious appearing of “our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ“, Titus 2:13
WJ
Keith,
Very good post bro! I would add that Christ is Himself the power of God:Quote 22For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; 23 but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness, 24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the POWER of God and the wisdom of God. (1 corinthians 1:22-24) Note that it says that Christ is a stimbling block to the Jew and that He is foolishness to the Greek. But to those who are called CHRIST IS THE POWER OF GOD!
Since Jodi Lee denies that Christ Himself is God's power then we might classify her as either an unbelieving Jew or a pagan Greek. If she was called of God she would have no problem with what the scriptures declare about Christ.
thinker
Jodi Lee said:
Quote Jesus does not have God's powers so that Jesus may use it when, where and how he wants. Jesus uses God's powers to carry out God's plan. Jodi,
Christ does not merely have a derived power from God. He IS the power of God:Quote 22For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; 23 but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness, 24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the POWER of God and the wisdom of God. (1 corinthians 1:22-24) thinker
Jodi Lee said:
Quote Jesus does not have God's powers so that Jesus may use it when, where and how he wants. Jesus uses God's powers to carry out God's plan. Jodi,
Jesus claimed the sovereignty to use His power as He sees fit,Quote For as the Father raises the dead and gives life to them, even so the Son gives life to whom He WILL. (John 5:21) and,
Quote 27 All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son WILLS to reveal Him. (Matthew 11:27) Jesus said that He may give life to whom He wills and that He may reveal the Father to whom He wills. Even if I were to agree with you that Jesus' power was derived only, which I do not, I must insist that He is free to use it as He pleases. He said that He has ALL authority in heaven and in earth.
Did your Moses “god” enjoy this kind of power?
thinker
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 05 2009,07:54) Hi Jodi Quote (Jodi Lee @ Sep. 04 2009,15:19) What do you mean JUST AVAILABLE to him?
I mean that Jesus has it all, which means at this present time he stands beside the Father as equal to him.However, you and others seem to imply that Jesus doesn't have all authority and power but is submitted to the Father and therefore cannot act on his own.
If he can act on his own having all authority, then he is God, for no other being could do that!
WJ
Keith,Amen! Jesus explicitly said that He could use His power as He sees fit. (John 5:21; Matthew 11:27)
You've really been on a roll lately bro. Good job!
thinker
Quote (Jodi Lee @ Sep. 04 2009,16:24) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 05 2009,07:54) Hi Jodi Quote (Jodi Lee @ Sep. 04 2009,15:19) What do you mean JUST AVAILABLE to him?
I mean that Jesus has it all, which means at this present time he stands beside the Father as equal to him.However, you and others seem to imply that Jesus doesn't have all authority and power but is submitted to the Father and therefore cannot act on his own.
If he can act on his own having all authority, then he is God, for no other being could do that!
WJ
WJ, what you are saying does not reflect scripture.The One True God is capable of giving His powers, just because Jesus the MAN is ABLE to receive those powers and use them does not mean that he is the One True God. What a confusing mess you make everything out to be IMO. The entire bible would have to be written completely different to reflect your belief.
Jesus has all power and authority over US, not over the Father, and this power is shown clearly to be GIVEN to him by the Father! Now why would he need to be GIVEN it, if he were the One True God? Why would Jesus need the Father to give him his own revelation if what you say is true?
Jesus AFTER his resurrection is said to BE the SERVANT of the FATHER, the Father is still sending him and using him to do things FOR Himself. Jesus is not acting on his own, stick with scripture, he is God's mediator and servant. Jesus calls the Father His God and our God. Jesus is NOT his own god, he is not his own father, and scripture tells us that for US there is One God who is the Father.
1Co 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
Eph 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
WJ, the above scriptures DON”T contain Jesus in the identity of the One God who is above all!
Hi JodiQuote (Jodi Lee @ Sep. 04 2009,16:24) WJ, what you are saying does not reflect scripture.
No, what I am saying reflects the “Whole council of God” and not just a few select scriptures!Quote (Jodi Lee @ Sep. 04 2009,16:24)
Eph 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.WJ, the above scriptures DON”T contain Jesus in the identity of the One God who is above all!
First, notice that it says “One God” AND Father!The above all is excluding Jesus, for the Father at this time is not above Jesus, remember he is at the Fathers right hand, not beneath him, nor above him, but beside him having “All Authority” and power!
Also remember he is not subject to the Father at this time, and in fact scriptures tell us he “Jesus” is “All and in All”.
WJ
Quote (thethinker @ Sep. 04 2009,16:59) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 05 2009,07:43) Hi Jodi Quote (Jodi Lee @ Sep. 04 2009,15:19) How exactly do you see that 1 Corinthians 15 shows that Jesus is the One True God?
Because no finite created being could be “infinite” in Power, Authority, Wisdom and Knowledge and Glory unless he is God!By Jesus who is before all things, all things consist, (Col 1:17) and by Jesus all things are upheld by the word of “his” Power! (Heb 1:3)
Little wonder the Father calls him “O God”, (Heb 1:8) and then attributes the entire creation as being the works of Jesus hands. (Heb 1:8)
Just consider what it takes to hold the entire universe together, and to be everywhere at the same time and to hear the prayers and cries of his sheep, and to bear the burdens of any and all that call on him, and to fulfill his promise that “he” Jesus would never leave us or forsake us!
Only “a God” can do that, but since we know that there is only “One True God” taught in scriptures, then we like the Apostle Paul can say…
while we wait for the blessed hope–the glorious appearing of “our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ“, Titus 2:13
WJ
Keith,
Very good post bro! I would add that Christ is Himself the power of God:Quote 22For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; 23 but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness, 24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the POWER of God and the wisdom of God. (1 corinthians 1:22-24) Note that it says that Christ is a stimbling block to the Jew and that He is foolishness to the Greek. But to those who are called CHRIST IS THE POWER OF GOD!
Since Jodi Lee denies that Christ Himself is God's power then we might classify her as either an unbelieving Jew or a pagan Greek. If she was called of God she would have no problem with what the scriptures declare about Christ.
thinker
Hi JackGood point about Christ the Power of God!
WJ
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