Proof jesus is god from paul's mouth?

[Cindy]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 04 2009,17:57)

Quote (princess of the king @ Sep. 03 2009,20:41) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 04 2009,08:53) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 03 2009,16:52) Hi WJ, “This is my son in whom I am well pleased “seems clear. Listen to him NH while we wait for the blessed hope–the glorious appearing of “our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ“, Titus 2:13 And that is not clear? WJ titus 2.13 looking for the blessed expectaion and esteemed apperance of the great Elohim AND our Savior Messiah Christ. i.e. a/Looking forward to seeing my sister and her husband….. b/Looking forward to seeing Nick and T8 c/Looking forward to seeing __(fill in the blank) some must be taking the word 'and' meaning the same, not a conjunction, kerwin is well with roots of words……..where is he? so if one takes the “and” uses it a same in form, then expectected and esteemed are the same but in different forms, of equal value, should both be………have to stop confusing setting in, bind it, out it goes, blessed be Hi POTK as we wait for the happy fulfillment of our hope in the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ. Titus 2:13 NET Titus 2:13 is Unambiguous in its claim that Jesus is the “Great God and Saviour”! First, because of its context and the Greek word for “Appearing”. Do a study and you will see that the word is only found in the NT in relation to Jesus and his coming! There is no scripture that claims the Father will appear! Secondly, the GSR (Grandville sharp rule) makes the scripture unambiguous and in 200 years has yet to be proven wrong! The terms “God and Savior” both refer to the same person, Jesus Christ. This is one of the clearest statements in the NT concerning the deity of Christ. The construction in Greek is known as the Granville Sharp rule, named after the English philanthropist-linguist who first clearly articulated the rule in 1798. Sharp pointed out that in the construction article-noun-καί-noun (where καί [kai] = “and”), when two nouns are singular, personal, and common (i.e., not proper names), they always had the same referent. Illustrations such as “the friend and brother,” “the God and Father,” etc. abound in the NT to prove Sharp’s point. The only issue is whether terms such as “God” and “Savior” could be considered common nouns as opposed to proper names. Sharp and others who followed (such as T. F. Middleton in his masterful The Doctrine of the Greek Article) demonstrated that a proper name in Greek was one that could not be pluralized. Since both “God” (θεός, qeos) and “savior” (σωτήρ, swthr) were occasionally found in the plural, they did not constitute proper names, and hence, do fit Sharp’s rule. Although there have been 200 years of attempts to dislodge Sharp’s rule, all attempts have been futile. Sharp’s rule stands vindicated after all the dust has settled. For more information on Sharp’s rule see ExSyn 270-78, esp. 276. See also 2 Pet 1:1 and Jude 4. NET Blessings WJ

All I did in the Post about who God is. We at least I do know that there is only ONE ALNIGHTY GOD THE FATHER. And He Himself called Jesus God in Hebrew 1:8-9 And John His Brother did in John 1:1-2
I understand perfectly what that means. God is a title, even Satan is called God of this world. Do we now have 3 Gods? Of course not. And calling me a name what I believe in is really unnecessary isn't it? I do know that you believe in a trinity, which I have proven to be wrong many times. So what's the beef with me? Do I call you constantly a trinitarian?
I thought you were better then that.
Irene

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (t8 @ Sep. 04 2009,04:09)

Quote Hi POTK as we wait for the happy fulfillment of our hope in the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ. Titus 2:13 NET Titus 2:13 is Unambiguous in its claim that Jesus is the “Great God and Savior”! First, because of its context and the Greek word for “Appearing”. Do a study and you will see that the word is only found in the NT in relation to Jesus and his coming! There is no scripture that claims the Father will appear! Secondly, the GSR (Grandville sharp rule) makes the scripture unambiguous and in 200 years has yet to be proven wrong! The terms “God and Savior” both refer to the same person, Jesus Christ. This is one of the clearest statements in the NT concerning the deity of Christ. The construction in Greek is known as the Granville Sharp rule, named after the English philanthropist-linguist who first clearly articulated the rule in 1798. Sharp pointed out that in the construction article-noun-καί-noun (where καί [kai] = “and”), when two nouns are singular, personal, and common (i.e., not proper names), they always had the same referent. Illustrations such as “the friend and brother,” “the God and Father,” etc. abound in the NT to prove Sharp’s point. The only issue is whether terms such as “God” and “Savior” could be considered common nouns as opposed to proper names. Sharp and others who followed (such as T. F. Middleton in his masterful The Doctrine of the Greek Article) demonstrated that a proper name in Greek was one that could not be pluralized. Since both “God” (θεός, qeos) and “savior” (σωτήρ, swthr) were occasionally found in the plural, they did not constitute proper names, and hence, do fit Sharp’s rule. Although there have been 200 years of attempts to dislodge Sharp’s rule, all attempts have been futile. Sharp’s rule stands vindicated after all the dust has settled. For more information on Sharp’s rule see ExSyn 270-78, esp. 276. See also 2 Pet 1:1 and Jude 4. NET Blessings WJ “Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God” I count 2. God and Jesus. If Jesus is God, then he is another God that thought it not robbery to be equal with the original God. Can you see how the trinity doctrine makes a mockery of scripture?

Hi t8

Not at all! It is the Polytheistic, Henotheistic view that mocks scripture. The scriptures say…

“Now concerning everything which I have said to you, be on your guard; and “DO NOT MENTION THE NAME OF OTHER GODS, NOR LET THEM BE HEARD FROM YOUR MOUTH. Exod 23:13

For even if there “ARE SO CALLED GODS”, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), 1 Cor 8:6

And yet you and others believe there are other “true gods”. Yet you do not have a single scriptural example of such, other than Jesus!

Now all you have to do is figure out what to do with Jesus who is now seated at the right hand of the Father, not beneath him nor above him but at his right hand, all authority and power in his hands.

The Trinitarian view is true to the whole council of God while all others have to white out scriptures or explain them away or just claim corruption!

Quote (t8 @ Sep. 04 2009,04:09)

If Jesus is God, then he is another God that thought it not robbery to be equal with the original God.

Well at least you admit that he is “equal to God”

Now you will have to figure out how any born or created being could be “Equal” to God!

T8, why don’t you use your favorite version?

Who, being in very nature* God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, Phil 2:6

Either way the words “another god” is not found there is it? Equal means Equal! Now since we know that Jesus with his own words said he and his Father are “One”, and that Paul said also that there are no other gods but one, then it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that Paul calling Jesus his “Great God and Savior” is an acclamation of his Deity and oneness with the Father!

The problem with your theory is that Phil 2 becomes a Polytheistic view which contradicts Paul and all of the Hebrew Scriptures. No t8, there is no other God but one, and that is the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit according to the whole council of God!

So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that an idol is nothing at all in the world and that “THERE IS NO GOD BUT ONE“. 1 Cor 8:4

So get out your whiteout if you like!

WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Cindy @ Sep. 04 2009,03:25)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 04 2009,17:29) Quote (Cindy @ Sep. 03 2009,20:32) To all!   Why is it so hard for so many to understand?  There are at least two Scriptures that say that says Jesus is God. Hebrew 1:8  And to the Son He said:”  Your Throne O God is foreverand ever…… John 1:1  In the beginning was the Word and the Word was God And the Word was with God. verse 14  And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us. So does that prove a Trinity.  No, No There are also some Scriptures that state that the Father is above all in Ephesians 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all and in us all. John 14 : 28 by Jesus own words it says :” ….for my Father is greater then I.” So is that a contradiction, or can w explain it any other way.  The answer is Yes… God is a title, the word God is used also for Satan, he is the God of this World. Why is it that so many of you don't understand this?  Also we are called Son's of God or children of God, we are the Family of God.  That to me makes more sense then doing away with Scriptures that contradict.  Jesus is not called Father either.  That title is either our own earthly Father or our Heavenly Father. Let me see how many of you are going to ignore this post again, because I have another post on this tread were you just ignore it. You would rather not understand it, would you?   Peace and Love Irene Irene Your view is Polytheistic! Did YHWH contradict his own words when he called Jesus God and yet said… “Now concerning everything which I have said to you, be on your guard; and “DO NOT MENTION THE NAME OF OTHER GODS, NOR LET THEM BE HEARD FROM YOUR MOUTH. Exod 23:13 Why didn't Jesus rebuke Thomas for such blasphemy if Jesus is not “The True God”? WJ I am quoting Scriptures and that is wrong?

Hi Irene

What is wrong is you believe there are “Other Gods” when scriptures are clear there is only “One True God” and no other gods period, but only so-called gods which are not gods at all!

Do you not believe this scripture also?

“Now concerning everything which I have said to you, be on your guard; and “DO NOT MENTION THE NAME OF OTHER GODS, NOR LET THEM BE HEARD FROM YOUR MOUTH. Exod 23:13

WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (t8 @ Sep. 04 2009,04:05)

Quote (RokkaMan @ Aug. 30 2009,09:42) Quote (david @ Aug. 30 2009,09:31) The context of the surrounding verses (3-5, 7, 8, Dy) makes it clear how verse 6 is to be understood. The Philippians were urged: “In humility, let each esteem others better than themselves.” Then Paul uses Christ as the outstanding example of this attitude: “Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus.” What “mind”? To ‘think it not robbery to be equal with God’? No, that would be just the opposite of the point being made! Rather, Jesus, who ‘esteemed God as better than himself,’ would never ‘grasp for equality with God,’ but instead he “humbled himself, becoming obedient unto death.” Wow i've never seen someone twist scripture as bad as you did…you dind't even address the scripture, you just copied it then added your own interpretation… Who being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God…means exactly what it says. He didn't think it was Robbery to be equal with God And as it was ok to be equal with God, even on that notion of equality… made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. So the scripture is saying BE LIKE MINDED…. If you are going to be a deacon or preacher in the House of GOD. Be a humbled one, as Jesus was. So yes it goes perfectly with the surrounding text. Quote (RokkaMan @ Aug. 30 2009,09:42) Wow i've never seen someone twist scripture as bad as you did…you dind't even address the scripture, you just copied it then added your own interpretation… Who being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God…means exactly what it says. He didn't think it was Robbery to be equal with God And as it was ok to be equal with God, even on that notion of equality… made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. So the scripture is saying BE LIKE MINDED…. If you are going to be a deacon or preacher in the House of GOD. Be a humbled one, as Jesus was. So yes it goes perfectly with the surrounding text. To be equal to something means that you are not that thing but like it. e.g., 2+4 = 1+1+1+1 2 and 1 have different identities. If Jesus is equal to God, then that means that he is equal to someone else. If LA Galaxy is equal to Manchester United, that doesn't make them both the same soccer team, does it? I should really need to explain this as it is basic stuff that even children can understand. John 17:3 Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. If you replace the word “God” in scripture for the word “Trinity”, you will break scripture. This is how I know that scripture doesn't teach that God is a Trinity. In fact, if you replace the word “God” for “Father”, then it works. There are a few exceptions to this, due to another God such as the 'God of this Age', false gods, and any reference to angels and men being called theos/god.

Hi t8

Quote (t8 @ Sep. 04 2009,04:05)

If you replace the word “God” in scripture for the word “Trinity”, you will break scripture. This is how I know that scripture doesn't teach that God is a Trinity.

And if you replace the word “God” with Father it will break scripture! So what is your point?

If you replace any word in scriptures with another word then the scriptures are broken!

Why not just believe the scriptures as they are, all of them?

Why play silly word games with scriptures?

Is that all you got to negate the clear scriptures that says Jesus is God?  

WJ

[Not3in1]

I have the white-out over here if anyone needs it…..

I figure if other men made changes to the original “inspired” written Word, than so can I.

Love,
Mandy

[KangarooJack]

t8 said:

Quote

If you replace the word “God” in scripture for the word “Trinity”, you will break scripture. This is how I know that scripture doesn't teach that God is a Trinity.

WorshippingJesus replied:

Quote

And if you replace the word “God” with Father it will break scripture! So what is your point? If you replace any word in scriptures with another word then the scriptures are broken! Why not just believe the scriptures as they are, all of them? Why play silly word games with scriptures? Is that all you got to negate the clear scriptures that says Jesus is God?

   

WJ,
Excellent point! Titus 2:13 says that Jesus Christ is the “great God and Savior.” To substitute the word “father” here would be to break the scriptures.

thinker

[Jodi Lee]

Quote (thethinker @ Sep. 04 2009,10:48)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 04 2009,10:42) Hi TT, Why not answer? So you have no problem with Jodi's view that Moses was God but the thought of Jesus being God keeps you awake at night? thinker

Moses was made a 'mighty one' by the the power of the Highest Mighty One, the TRUE Mighty One where ALL power, wisdom and auhtority comes from. This Highest Mighty One is known as YHWH the Father of Jesus (the human Messiah born of the seed of David). There exist NO OTHER where power, wisdom and authority ORIGINATES, anyone with such things RECEIVES them from YHWH, and not only that but they use them according to the will and directions of YHWH!!

Is that CLEAR? This is truly not complex, the problem is in your blindness a narrow mind exists. I have come to realize this is not really your fault, for YHWH said that He would blind people that they would not see the truth, no matter how much common sense it contains.

There exists NO other gods before YHWH, YHWH ALONE holds within Himself ALL powers. Jesus and Moses did NOTHING of themselves, any sign, wonder or miracle they performed was because YHWH gave them HIS powers, and told them SPECIFICALLY what to do with them. These MEN were SEEN as gods, according to man's definition of what a god IS, someone or something with supernatural powers, someone known to be mighty.

There is NO god that I put above the one TRUE God, YHWH. I do not believe that any being exists who has powers of their own accord. Those who believe that SATAN is a fallen angel or some supernatural being, having his OWN supernatural powers, have created a FALSE god.

To worship YHWH CORRECTLY is to BELIEVE that He ALONE is the source of ALL power, wisdom and authority, and that no one else would have any powers unless they received it through Him for the purpose of fulfilling His plan.

[Cindy]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 05 2009,03:35)

Quote (Cindy @ Sep. 04 2009,03:25) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 04 2009,17:29) Quote (Cindy @ Sep. 03 2009,20:32) To all!   Why is it so hard for so many to understand?  There are at least two Scriptures that say that says Jesus is God. Hebrew 1:8  And to the Son He said:”  Your Throne O God is foreverand ever…… John 1:1  In the beginning was the Word and the Word was God And the Word was with God. verse 14  And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us. So does that prove a Trinity.  No, No There are also some Scriptures that state that the Father is above all in Ephesians 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all and in us all. John 14 : 28 by Jesus own words it says :” ….for my Father is greater then I.” So is that a contradiction, or can w explain it any other way.  The answer is Yes… God is a title, the word God is used also for Satan, he is the God of this World. Why is it that so many of you don't understand this?  Also we are called Son's of God or children of God, we are the Family of God.  That to me makes more sense then doing away with Scriptures that contradict.  Jesus is not called Father either.  That title is either our own earthly Father or our Heavenly Father. Let me see how many of you are going to ignore this post again, because I have another post on this tread were you just ignore it. You would rather not understand it, would you?   Peace and Love Irene Irene Your view is Polytheistic! Did YHWH contradict his own words when he called Jesus God and yet said… “Now concerning everything which I have said to you, be on your guard; and “DO NOT MENTION THE NAME OF OTHER GODS, NOR LET THEM BE HEARD FROM YOUR MOUTH. Exod 23:13 Why didn't Jesus rebuke Thomas for such blasphemy if Jesus is not “The True God”? WJ I am quoting Scriptures and that is wrong? Hi Irene What is wrong is you believe there are “Other Gods” when scriptures are clear there is only “One True God” and no other gods period, but only so-called gods which are not gods at all! Do you not believe this scripture also? “Now concerning everything which I have said to you, be on your guard; and “DO NOT MENTION THE NAME OF OTHER GODS, NOR LET THEM BE HEARD FROM YOUR MOUTH. Exod 23:13 WJ

So Hebrew 1:8-9 is not a Scripture? And it was not what God said to His Son? Or rather an Angel for God the Father. Also John was wrong what He said? Come on, I go by Scriptures. Yes there is only One Almighty God and Yes Jesus is the Son of God. But why ignore Scriptures when you or I can reason with it what it means? All Scriptures are the inspiring word of God. So I am supposed to ignore two Scriptures? I am sorry, but I will not do that. And if you want to call me Polytheistic that is alright with me. I don't even know what that means. Jesus had to endure much more, so go ahead and call me whatever you want.
Peace and Love Irene

[Worshipping Jesus]

Hi Jodi

Quote (Jodi Lee @ Sep. 04 2009,12:37)

There exist NO OTHER where power, wisdom and authority ORIGINATES, anyone with such things RECEIVES them from YHWH, and not only that but they use them according to the will and directions of YHWH!!

Have you forgotten that Paul says in Corinthians that Jesus is not subject to the Father at this time?

Jesus is in the throne with all Judgment, authorities and powers subject to him!

And you want to compare him to Moses or some mere prophet?  

WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Irene

A Polytheist is someone who believes in or worships more than one God!

Jesus is either The “One True God” with the Father and the Holy Spirit or he is not God at all.

Because if you say that he is “a god” then that is Polytheism!

WJ

[Cindy]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 05 2009,04:54)

Irene A Polytheist is someone who believes in or worships more than one God! Jesus is either The “One True God” with the Father and the Holy Spirit or he is not God at all. Because if you say that he is “a god” then that is Polytheism! WJ

No, that is a Family name or a title. Not two Gods or Almighty God the Father. There is only One God and Father of all, That I know but you still don't say what we should do with those Scriptures that I quoted. All you can do is call me
Polytheist, and that is false, because I do not worship the Son. And I don't believe in the trinity either. You believe in the trinity. So what should I call you? The Holy Spirit is not a Person either . It is the Spirit of the Father. I am really getting tired so I will get of this computer for awhile. Good Luck.
Irene

[KangarooJack]

Jodi Lee said:

Quote

There exist NO OTHER where power, wisdom and authority ORIGINATES, anyone with such things RECEIVES them from YHWH, and not only that but they use them according to the will and directions of YHWH!!

And Jesus is YHWH:

Quote

Thus says YHWH, the King of Israel,      And his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts:      ‘ I am the First and I am the Last;      Besides Me there is no God.

Who was Israel's King and Redeemer?

Check one:

1. the Father [ ]
2. Moses [ ]
3. Jesus [ ]

If you choose number one then Israel had two Kings and two Redeemers. Jesus' authority was both derived and innate. His authority was derived because He yielded it up and the Father gave it back to Him. That He yielded it up shows that His authority was also innate. No rocket science degree is needed.

thinker

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Cindy @ Sep. 04 2009,13:13)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 05 2009,04:54) Irene A Polytheist is someone who believes in or worships more than one God! Jesus is either The “One True God” with the Father and the Holy Spirit or he is not God at all. Because if you say that he is “a god” then that is Polytheism! WJ No, that is a Family name or a title.  Not two Gods or Almighty God the Father.  There is only One God and Father of all,  That I know but you still don't say what we should do with those Scriptures that I quoted.  All you can do is call me Polytheist, and that is false, because I do not worship the Son. And I don't believe in the trinity either.  You believe in the trinity.  So what should I call you?  The Holy Spirit is not a Person  either .  It is the Spirit of the Father. I am really getting tired so I will get of this computer for awhile.  Good Luck. Irene

Hi Irene

Where is the definition of God being “a Family name or a title”?

WJ

[KangarooJack]

Irene said:

Quote

I do not worship the Son.

If the Son is not your King then the Father is not your God. For the Father has set up His Son as the King:

Psalm 2:

Quote

6Yet I have set My King         On My holy hill of Zion.”         7 “I will declare the decree:         The LORD has said to Me,         ‘You are My Son,         Today I have begotten You.

The Father set up His king on His holy hill. I recommend that you get with God's program or you put yourself in danger:

Quote

12Honor the Son, lest He be angry,         And you perish in the way,         When His wrath is kindled but a little.         Blessed are all those who put their trust in Him.

Be warned. The Son has the power to DESTROY you.

thinker

[Jodi Lee]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 05 2009,04:50)

Hi Jodi Quote (Jodi Lee @ Sep. 04 2009,12:37) There exist NO OTHER where power, wisdom and authority ORIGINATES, anyone with such things RECEIVES them from YHWH, and not only that but they use them according to the will and directions of YHWH!! Have you forgotten that Paul says in Corinthians that Jesus is not subject to the Father at this time? Jesus is in the throne with all Judgment, authorities and powers subject to him! And you want to compare him to Moses or some mere prophet?   WJ

Hi WJ,

Could you direct me to the scripture in Corinthians you are speaking of?

BOTH Moses and Jesus RECEIVE ALL things from the YHWH. Jesus is certainly before Moses, he is our Mediator to the Father, and the Father as well made Jesus to be our savior.  

This scripture is AFTER the resurrection-

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,

Acts 1:6 Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7 And He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority.

Ac 3:26 To you first, God, having raised up His Servant Jesus, sent Him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from your iniquities.”

John 5:25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, 27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man.

Joh 14:10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works.

This passage is AFTER Jesus has been resurrected!

Matthew 28:17 When they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some doubted. 18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

Before and AFTER Jesus rose from the dead Jesus is shown to be the Father's SERVANT, and he serves as our Mediator to the God most High, YHWH. Jesus after he rose is said to have all authority not by his OWN accord, but through it being GIVEN to him by his Father.

Scripture shows WJ, that you are clearly wrong!

[Jodi Lee]

Quote (thethinker @ Sep. 05 2009,05:20)

Jodi Lee said: Quote There exist NO OTHER where power, wisdom and authority ORIGINATES, anyone with such things RECEIVES them from YHWH, and not only that but they use them according to the will and directions of YHWH!! And Jesus is YHWH: Quote Thus says YHWH, the King of Israel,      And his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts:      ‘ I am the First and I am the Last;      Besides Me there is no God. Who was Israel's King and Redeemer? Check one: 1. the Father [ ] 2. Moses [ ] 3. Jesus [ ] If you choose number one then Israel had two Kings and two Redeemers. Jesus' authority was both derived and innate. His authority was derived because He yielded it up and the Father gave it back to Him. That He yielded it up shows that His authority was also innate. No rocket science degree is needed. thinker

So you then believe that YHWH is his own son, and Jesus is his own father?

[KangarooJack]

Quote (Jodi Lee @ Sep. 05 2009,06:01)

Quote (thethinker @ Sep. 05 2009,05:20) Jodi Lee said: Quote There exist NO OTHER where power, wisdom and authority ORIGINATES, anyone with such things RECEIVES them from YHWH, and not only that but they use them according to the will and directions of YHWH!! And Jesus is YHWH: Quote Thus says YHWH, the King of Israel,      And his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts:      ‘ I am the First and I am the Last;      Besides Me there is no God. Who was Israel's King and Redeemer? Check one: 1. the Father [ ] 2. Moses [ ] 3. Jesus [ ] If you choose number one then Israel had two Kings and two Redeemers. Jesus' authority was both derived and innate. His authority was derived because He yielded it up and the Father gave it back to Him. That He yielded it up shows that His authority was also innate. No rocket science degree is needed. thinker So you then believe that YHWH is his own son, and Jesus is his own father?

I replied to this today in the “Messenger of Jehovah was Jehovah” thread.

thinker

[Not3in1]

Quote (Jodi Lee @ Sep. 05 2009,04:37)

Moses was made a 'mighty one' by the the power of the Highest Mighty One, the TRUE Mighty One where ALL power, wisdom and auhtority comes from. This Highest Mighty One is known as YHWH the Father of Jesus (the human Messiah born of the seed of David). There exist NO OTHER where power, wisdom and authority ORIGINATES, anyone with such things RECEIVES them from YHWH, and not only that but they use them according to the will and directions of YHWH!!

Preach it, sis!

[KangarooJack]

Quote (Jodi Lee @ Sep. 05 2009,06:01)

Quote (thethinker @ Sep. 05 2009,05:20) Jodi Lee said: Quote There exist NO OTHER where power, wisdom and authority ORIGINATES, anyone with such things RECEIVES them from YHWH, and not only that but they use them according to the will and directions of YHWH!! And Jesus is YHWH: Quote Thus says YHWH, the King of Israel,      And his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts:      ‘ I am the First and I am the Last;      Besides Me there is no God. Who was Israel's King and Redeemer? Check one: 1. the Father [ ] 2. Moses [ ] 3. Jesus [ ] If you choose number one then Israel had two Kings and two Redeemers. Jesus' authority was both derived and innate. His authority was derived because He yielded it up and the Father gave it back to Him. That He yielded it up shows that His authority was also innate. No rocket science degree is needed. thinker So you then believe that YHWH is his own son, and Jesus is his own father?

YHWH called Himself the King of Israel and Israel's Redeemer (Isaiah 44:6). I asked you to show me where in the Bible the Father is called the King of Israel and Israel's Redeemer?
You did not answer me.

thinker

[Not3in1]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 05 2009,04:50)

Hi Jodi Quote (Jodi Lee @ Sep. 04 2009,12:37) There exist NO OTHER where power, wisdom and authority ORIGINATES, anyone with such things RECEIVES them from YHWH, and not only that but they use them according to the will and directions of YHWH!! Have you forgotten that Paul says in Corinthians that Jesus is not subject to the Father at this time? Jesus is in the throne with all Judgment, authorities and powers subject to him! And you want to compare him to Moses or some mere prophet?   WJ

But Jesus will turn everything over to the Father so he (the One True God) will be all in all.

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