Proof jesus is god from paul's mouth?

[KangarooJack]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 04 2009,10:49)

Hi TT, Where does Jodi say that?

Did you read the exchange between Keith and Jodi? Were you half asleep or just came in late?

thinker

[NickHassan]

Hi TT,
Jesus quoted scriptures that said men are gods so why are you confused?
He revealed Who God is but you disagree with him

[Jodi Lee]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 04 2009,08:16)

Hi all To all the Polytheist that believe there are “Other True gods”, here is only a few scriptures that deny there are any other gods. Thou shalt have none other gods before me. Duet 5:7 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was **“no God” formed**, neither shall there be after me. Isa 43:10 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: Isa 45:5 WJ

So you must then believe that Jesus is YHWH, is that correct then WJ?

Duet 5:6`I Jehovah am thy God, who hath brought thee out from the land of Egypt, from a house of servants. 7 `Thou hast no other gods in My presence. 8 `Thou dost not make to thee a graven image, any similitude which is in the heavens above, and which is in the earth beneath, and which is in the waters under the earth; 9 thou dost not bow thyself to them nor serve them, for I Jehovah thy God am a zealous God, charging iniquity of fathers on children, and on a third generation, and on a fourth, to those hating Me;

Isaiah 43:10 Ye are My witnesses, an affirmation of Jehovah, And My servant whom I have chosen, So that ye know and give credence to Me, And understand that I am He, Before Me there was no God formed, And after Me there is none.

Isiah 45:5 I am Jehovah, and there is none else, Except Me there is no God, I gird thee, and thou hast not known Me. 6 So that they know from the rising of the sun, And from the west, that there is none besides Me, I am Jehovah, and there is none else, 7 Forming light, and preparing darkness, Making peace, and preparing evil, I am Jehovah, doing all these things.

2 Samuel 7:11 even from the day that I appointed judges over My people Israel; and I have given rest to thee from all thine enemies, and Jehovah hath declared to thee that Jehovah doth make for thee a house. 12 `When thy days are full, and thou hast lain with thy fathers, then I have raised up thy seed after thee which goeth out from thy bowels, and have established his kingdom; 13 He doth build a house for My Name, and I have established the throne of his kingdom unto the age. 14 I am to him for a father, and he is to Me for a son; whom in his dealings perversely I have even reproved with a rod of men, and with strokes of the sons of Adam,

WJ, how do you explain this? Is Jesus his OWN father and is YHWH His own son?

[princess of the king]

simple……..easy to understand….plain, common, not complicated, not showy.

then your god decides to make thing hard to understand, complicated, showy, elablorate?

not only does he change from simple to complicated, he also changes from person to person, changes his commands, statues, so what's next or who is next ?

the true and living God does not change, he is the same today yesterday always.

maybe you feel your next in line to rule the kingdom……..let's think………..who was shot down like lightening for trying that?

maybe that is why he speaks so clear to you and when you repeat what he says, they (the blessed and highly favored, the chosen) know you to be a liar.

[Cindy]

To all! Why is it so hard for so many to understand? There are at least two Scriptures that say that says Jesus is God.
Hebrew 1:8 And to the Son He said:” Your Throne O God is foreverand ever……
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word and the Word was God And the Word was with God.
verse 14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us.
So does that prove a Trinity. No, No
There are also some Scriptures that state that the Father is above all in
Ephesians 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all and in us all.
John 14 : 28 by Jesus own words it says :” ….for my Father is greater then I.”
So is that a contradiction, or can w explain it any other way. The answer is Yes…
God is a title, the word God is used also for Satan, he is the God of this World.
Why is it that so many of you don't understand this? Also we are called Son's of God or children of God, we are the Family of God. That to me makes more sense then doing away with Scriptures that contradict. Jesus is not called Father either. That title is either our own earthly Father or our Heavenly Father. Let me see how many of you are going to ignore this post again, because I have another post on this tread were you just ignore it. You would rather not understand it, would you?
Peace and Love Irene

[princess of the king]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 04 2009,08:53)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 03 2009,16:52) Hi WJ, “This is my son in whom I am well pleased “seems clear. Listen to him NH while we wait for the blessed hope–the glorious appearing of “our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ“, Titus 2:13 And that is not clear? WJ

titus 2.13

looking for the blessed expectaion and esteemed apperance of the great Elohim AND our Savior Messiah Christ.

i.e.

a/Looking forward to seeing my sister and her husband…..
b/Looking forward to seeing Nick and T8
c/Looking forward to seeing __(fill in the blank)

some must be taking the word 'and' meaning the same, not a conjunction, kerwin is well with roots of words……..where is he?

so if one takes the “and” uses it a same in form, then expectected and esteemed are the same but in different forms, of equal value, should both be………have to stop confusing setting in, bind it, out it goes, blessed be

[NickHassan]

Hi P,
When Jesus returns God will still be in him.[2Cor5]
God will come to be with His people in Christ

[Cindy]

Quote (princess of the king @ Sep. 04 2009,12:41)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 04 2009,08:53) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 03 2009,16:52) Hi WJ, “This is my son in whom I am well pleased “seems clear. Listen to him NH while we wait for the blessed hope–the glorious appearing of “our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ“, Titus 2:13 And that is not clear? WJ titus 2.13 looking for the blessed expectaion and esteemed apperance of the great Elohim AND our Savior Messiah Christ. i.e. a/Looking forward to seeing my sister and her husband….. b/Looking forward to seeing Nick and T8 c/Looking forward to seeing __(fill in the blank) some must be taking the word 'and' meaning the same, not a conjunction, kerwin is well with roots of words……..where is he? so if one takes the “and” uses it a same in form, then expectected and esteemed are the same but in different forms, of equal value, should both be………have to stop confusing setting in, bind it, out it goes, blessed be

The Word in John 1:1 is the Word that became flesh and dwelt among us Verse 14 Who is that Jesus, He too was called God even by His Father in Hebrew 1:8
What are you saying? Are you trying to impress people with your words or what? I'm a born German and the English language does not come easy for me. So you really don't know who is all on Heaven Net Forum. So make yourself clear.
Irene

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (thethinker @ Sep. 03 2009,18:39)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 04 2009,07:50) Jodi Quote (Jodi Lee @ Sep. 03 2009,13:03) WOW, you just don't get it? Exodus 7:1 So the Lord said to Moses: “See, I have made you as God to Pharaoh, and Aaron your brother shall be your prophet. YHWH made Moses a god by giving Moses His POWERS! No, you just don’t get it. Moses was “a god” to Pharaoh and that is it! Wow, and you think that Moses had “Powers”? Are you the same one that says that “Jesus’ didn’t do anything on his own? Where is the scripture that says “Moses powers” opened the Red Sea? No Moses was a man like you and I and was simply a servant called by YHWH to carry out his will! I see where you guys are coming from now, you see Moses just like Pharaoh did, as some sort of “a god”! Polytheism! Quote (Jodi Lee @ Sep. 03 2009,13:03) WJ, was the Pharaoh believing in a FALSE mighty one, Yep, because Moses wasn’t “a god” at all, and YHWH nor any of his followers said he was, did they? But in your mind and in the mind of Pharaoh apparently he was! Quote (Jodi Lee @ Sep. 03 2009,13:03) did Moses NOT perform signs and wonders? Nope, YHWH performed them, Moses was the servant of YHWH! Quote (Jodi Lee @ Sep. 03 2009,13:03) Do the scriptures lie, or do you just fail to understand the word god? I might ask you the same thing? What part of YHWH’s words do you not believe? “Now concerning everything which I have said to you, be on your guard; and “DO NOT MENTION THE NAME OF OTHER GODS, NOR LET THEM BE HEARD FROM YOUR MOUTH. Exod 23:13 WJ TO KEITH: Keith, I can't believe this! These people actually believe that Moses was greater than Jesus. Not only this, but they reject new testament revelation. Quote For this One [Jesus] has been counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as He who built the house has more honor than the house. 4 For every house is built by someone, but He who built all things is God.(Hberews 3:3-4) It says that Jesus is “counted worthy” of more glory than Moses. If Jodi can allow Moses to be her God then why not Jesus too? thinker

Hi Jack

You know what I find ammusing?

That they want to call Moses “god”, yet to them it is wrong to call Jesus God when in fact the Apostles and the Father himself did so.

For instance, if my confession is according to the scriptures that Jesus is “My great God and Saviour”, then they go balistic! Amazing!

Moses nor any other servant of God was called “God” by the Father or the Apostles anywhere in the scriptures.

All they have is one instance of wicked kings and judges which YHWH said would die like men, so even then they were not servants of God and were not God's at all.

David claims that the term God is applied to Angels of God, and yet he cannot give me one example of this in all of the Bible.

Their problem is they cannot get around the use of the term God being applied to Jesus by the Father and the Apostles so they seek to find a way to disprove and bring him down to a lower status than he is!

You would think that somewhere in the 66 books they could find one example of other servants of God being called “God”.

God hates Polytheism and the OT and NT scriptures alike condemn it!

WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Jodi

Quote (Jodi Lee @ Sep. 03 2009,20:02)

So you must then believe that Jesus is YHWH, is that correct then WJ?

Absolutely! Who else appeared to the men of Old unless it was Jesus, since Jesus said no man had ever seen the Father but him! Jesus is the “image of the invisible God” or God made visible!

Quote (Jodi Lee @ Sep. 03 2009,20:02)

Duet 5:6`I Jehovah am thy God, who hath brought thee out from the land of Egypt, from a house of servants. 7 `Thou hast no other gods in My presence. 8 `Thou dost not make to thee a graven image, any similitude which is in the heavens above, and which is in the earth beneath, and which is in the waters under the earth; 9 thou dost not bow thyself to them nor serve them, for I Jehovah thy God am a zealous God, charging iniquity of fathers on children, and on a third generation, and on a fourth, to those hating Me; Isaiah 43:10 Ye are My witnesses, an affirmation of Jehovah, And My servant whom I have chosen, So that ye know and give credence to Me, And understand that I am He, Before Me there was no God formed, And after Me there is none. Isiah 45:5 I am Jehovah, and there is none else, Except Me there is no God, I gird thee, and thou hast not known Me. 6 So that they know from the rising of the sun, And from the west, that there is none besides Me, I am Jehovah, and there is none else, 7 Forming light, and preparing darkness, Making peace, and preparing evil, I am Jehovah, doing all these things. 2 Samuel 7:11 even from the day that I appointed judges over My people Israel; and I have given rest to thee from all thine enemies, and Jehovah hath declared to thee that Jehovah doth make for thee a house. 12 `When thy days are full, and thou hast lain with thy fathers, then I have raised up thy seed after thee which goeth out from thy bowels, and have established his kingdom; 13 He doth build a house for My Name, and I have established the throne of his kingdom unto the age. 14 I am to him for a father, and he is to Me for a son; whom in his dealings perversely I have even reproved with a rod of men, and with strokes of the sons of Adam,

Good scriptures! So what, are you shifting gears now since we have proven Moses is not a God!

Quote (Jodi Lee @ Sep. 03 2009,20:02)

WJ, how do you explain this? Is Jesus his OWN father and is YHWH His own son?

Seriously, you are not that stupid I am sure! First of all you are making the argument against a Modalist,

Secondly, God is a title and doesn't define identity, for clearly there are “so called gods” that men have made for themselves which are not gods at all!

Jesus was the “Only Son of God”. So if you have a son is he less human than his Father? Rather simple isn't it?

I still haven’t seen any evidence where you guys can show us how your Polytheism is found in the NT with the Father or the Apostles calling a servant of God other than Jesus God!

So what do you do with Jesus?

WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Cindy @ Sep. 03 2009,20:32)

To all!   Why is it so hard for so many to understand?  There are at least two Scriptures that say that says Jesus is God. Hebrew 1:8  And to the Son He said:”  Your Throne O God is foreverand ever…… John 1:1  In the beginning was the Word and the Word was God And the Word was with God. verse 14  And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us. So does that prove a Trinity.  No, No There are also some Scriptures that state that the Father is above all in Ephesians 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all and in us all. John 14 : 28 by Jesus own words it says :” ….for my Father is greater then I.” So is that a contradiction, or can w explain it any other way.  The answer is Yes… God is a title, the word God is used also for Satan, he is the God of this World. Why is it that so many of you don't understand this?  Also we are called Son's of God or children of God, we are the Family of God.  That to me makes more sense then doing away with Scriptures that contradict.  Jesus is not called Father either.  That title is either our own earthly Father or our Heavenly Father. Let me see how many of you are going to ignore this post again, because I have another post on this tread were you just ignore it. You would rather not understand it, would you?   Peace and Love Irene

Irene

Your view is Polytheistic!

Did YHWH contradict his own words when he called Jesus God and yet said…

“Now concerning everything which I have said to you, be on your guard; and “DO NOT MENTION THE NAME OF OTHER GODS, NOR LET THEM BE HEARD FROM YOUR MOUTH. Exod 23:13

Why didn't Jesus rebuke Thomas for such blasphemy if Jesus is not “The True God”?

WJ

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
Then you should not make our appointed lord your God.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (princess of the king @ Sep. 03 2009,20:41)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 04 2009,08:53) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 03 2009,16:52) Hi WJ, “This is my son in whom I am well pleased “seems clear. Listen to him NH while we wait for the blessed hope–the glorious appearing of “our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ“, Titus 2:13 And that is not clear? WJ titus 2.13 looking for the blessed expectaion and esteemed apperance of the great Elohim AND our Savior Messiah Christ. i.e. a/Looking forward to seeing my sister and her husband….. b/Looking forward to seeing Nick and T8 c/Looking forward to seeing __(fill in the blank) some must be taking the word 'and' meaning the same, not a conjunction, kerwin is well with roots of words……..where is he? so if one takes the “and” uses it a same in form, then expectected and esteemed are the same but in different forms, of equal value, should both be………have to stop confusing setting in, bind it, out it goes, blessed be

Hi POTK

as we wait for the happy fulfillment of our hope in the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ. Titus 2:13 NET

Titus 2:13 is Unambiguous in its claim that Jesus is the “Great God and Saviour”!

First, because of its context and the Greek word for “Appearing”. Do a study and you will see that the word is only found in the NT in relation to Jesus and his coming!

There is no scripture that claims the Father will appear!

Secondly, the GSR (Grandville sharp rule) makes the scripture unambiguous and in 200 years has yet to be proven wrong!

The terms “God and Savior” both refer to the same person, Jesus Christ. This is one of the clearest statements in the NT concerning the deity of Christ. The construction in Greek is known as the Granville Sharp rule, named after the English philanthropist-linguist who first clearly articulated the rule in 1798. Sharp pointed out that in the construction article-noun-καί-noun (where καί [kai] = “and”), when two nouns are singular, personal, and common (i.e., not proper names), they always had the same referent. Illustrations such as “the friend and brother,” “the God and Father,” etc. abound in the NT to prove Sharp’s point. The only issue is whether terms such as “God” and “Savior” could be considered common nouns as opposed to proper names. Sharp and others who followed (such as T. F. Middleton in his masterful The Doctrine of the Greek Article) demonstrated that a proper name in Greek was one that could not be pluralized. Since both “God” (θεός, qeos) and “savior” (σωτήρ, swthr) were occasionally found in the plural, they did not constitute proper names, and hence, do fit Sharp’s rule. Although there have been 200 years of attempts to dislodge Sharp’s rule, all attempts have been futile. Sharp’s rule stands vindicated after all the dust has settled. For more information on Sharp’s rule see ExSyn 270-78, esp. 276. See also 2 Pet 1:1 and Jude 4.

NET

Blessings WJ

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
Is that the best you can offer?
Nothing from God or His son?

Perhaps you have misunderstood it?

[Cindy]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 04 2009,17:29)

Quote (Cindy @ Sep. 03 2009,20:32) To all!   Why is it so hard for so many to understand?  There are at least two Scriptures that say that says Jesus is God. Hebrew 1:8  And to the Son He said:”  Your Throne O God is foreverand ever…… John 1:1  In the beginning was the Word and the Word was God And the Word was with God. verse 14  And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us. So does that prove a Trinity.  No, No There are also some Scriptures that state that the Father is above all in Ephesians 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all and in us all. John 14 : 28 by Jesus own words it says :” ….for my Father is greater then I.” So is that a contradiction, or can w explain it any other way.  The answer is Yes… God is a title, the word God is used also for Satan, he is the God of this World. Why is it that so many of you don't understand this?  Also we are called Son's of God or children of God, we are the Family of God.  That to me makes more sense then doing away with Scriptures that contradict.  Jesus is not called Father either.  That title is either our own earthly Father or our Heavenly Father. Let me see how many of you are going to ignore this post again, because I have another post on this tread were you just ignore it. You would rather not understand it, would you?   Peace and Love Irene Irene Your view is Polytheistic! Did YHWH contradict his own words when he called Jesus God and yet said… “Now concerning everything which I have said to you, be on your guard; and “DO NOT MENTION THE NAME OF OTHER GODS, NOR LET THEM BE HEARD FROM YOUR MOUTH. Exod 23:13 Why didn't Jesus rebuke Thomas for such blasphemy if Jesus is not “The True God”? WJ

I am quoting Scriptures and that is wrong?

[Proclaimer]

Quote (RokkaMan @ Aug. 30 2009,09:42)

Quote (david @ Aug. 30 2009,09:31) The context of the surrounding verses (3-5, 7, 8, Dy) makes it clear how verse 6 is to be understood. The Philippians were urged: “In humility, let each esteem others better than themselves.” Then Paul uses Christ as the outstanding example of this attitude: “Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus.” What “mind”? To ‘think it not robbery to be equal with God’? No, that would be just the opposite of the point being made! Rather, Jesus, who ‘esteemed God as better than himself,’ would never ‘grasp for equality with God,’ but instead he “humbled himself, becoming obedient unto death.” Wow i've never seen someone twist scripture as bad as you did…you dind't even address the scripture, you just copied it then added your own interpretation… Who being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God…means exactly what it says. He didn't think it was Robbery to be equal with God And as it was ok to be equal with God, even on that notion of equality… made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. So the scripture is saying BE LIKE MINDED…. If you are going to be a deacon or preacher in the House of GOD. Be a humbled one, as Jesus was. So yes it goes perfectly with the surrounding text.

Quote (RokkaMan @ Aug. 30 2009,09:42)

Wow i've never seen someone twist scripture as bad as you did…you dind't even address the scripture, you just copied it then added your own interpretation… Who being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God…means exactly what it says. He didn't think it was Robbery to be equal with God And as it was ok to be equal with God, even on that notion of equality… made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. So the scripture is saying BE LIKE MINDED…. If you are going to be a deacon or preacher in the House of GOD. Be a humbled one, as Jesus was. So yes it goes perfectly with the surrounding text.

To be equal to something means that you are not that thing but like it.

e.g., 2+2 = 1+1+1+1

2 and 1 have different identities.

If Jesus is equal to God, then that means that he is equal to someone else.

If LA Galaxy is equal to Manchester United, that doesn't make them both the same soccer team, does it?

I should really need to explain this as it is basic stuff that even children can understand.

John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

If you replace the word “God” in scripture for the word “Trinity”, you will break scripture.
This is how I know that scripture doesn't teach that God is a Trinity.

In fact, if you replace the word “God” for “Father”, then it works. There are a few exceptions to this, due to another God such as the 'God of this Age', false gods, and any reference to angels and men being called theos/god.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (RokkaMan @ Aug. 30 2009,09:05)

Phillipians 2 5Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: KJV Thanks Bye

“Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God”

I count 2.

God and Jesus.

[Proclaimer]

Quote

Hi POTK as we wait for the happy fulfillment of our hope in the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ. Titus 2:13 NET Titus 2:13 is Unambiguous in its claim that Jesus is the “Great God and Saviour”! First, because of its context and the Greek word for “Appearing”. Do a study and you will see that the word is only found in the NT in relation to Jesus and his coming! There is no scripture that claims the Father will appear! Secondly, the GSR (Grandville sharp rule) makes the scripture unambiguous and in 200 years has yet to be proven wrong! The terms “God and Savior” both refer to the same person, Jesus Christ. This is one of the clearest statements in the NT concerning the deity of Christ. The construction in Greek is known as the Granville Sharp rule, named after the English philanthropist-linguist who first clearly articulated the rule in 1798. Sharp pointed out that in the construction article-noun-καί-noun (where καί [kai] = “and”), when two nouns are singular, personal, and common (i.e., not proper names), they always had the same referent. Illustrations such as “the friend and brother,” “the God and Father,” etc. abound in the NT to prove Sharp’s point. The only issue is whether terms such as “God” and “Savior” could be considered common nouns as opposed to proper names. Sharp and others who followed (such as T. F. Middleton in his masterful The Doctrine of the Greek Article) demonstrated that a proper name in Greek was one that could not be pluralized. Since both “God” (θεός, qeos) and “savior” (σωτήρ, swthr) were occasionally found in the plural, they did not constitute proper names, and hence, do fit Sharp’s rule. Although there have been 200 years of attempts to dislodge Sharp’s rule, all attempts have been futile. Sharp’s rule stands vindicated after all the dust has settled. For more information on Sharp’s rule see ExSyn 270-78, esp. 276. See also 2 Pet 1:1 and Jude 4. NET Blessings WJ

“Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God”

I count 2.

God and Jesus.

If Jesus is God, then he is another God that thought it not robbery to be equal with the original God.

Can you see how the trinity doctrine makes a mockery of scripture?

[KangarooJack]

Jodi Lee wrote:

Quote

Duet 5:6`I Jehovah am thy God, who hath brought thee out from the land of Egypt, from a house of servants. 7 `Thou hast no other gods in My presence. 8 `Thou dost not make to thee a graven image, any similitude which is in the heavens above, and which is in the earth beneath, and which is in the waters under the earth; 9 thou dost not bow thyself to them nor serve them, for I Jehovah thy God am a zealous God, charging iniquity of fathers on children, and on a third generation, and on a fourth, to those hating Me; Isaiah 43:10 Ye are My witnesses, an affirmation of Jehovah, And My servant whom I have chosen, So that ye know and give credence to Me, And understand that I am He, Before Me there was no God formed, And after Me there is none. Isiah 45:5 I am Jehovah, and there is none else, Except Me there is no God, I gird thee, and thou hast not known Me. 6 So that they know from the rising of the sun, And from the west, that there is none besides Me, I am Jehovah, and there is none else, 7 Forming light, and preparing darkness, Making peace, and preparing evil, I am Jehovah, doing all these things. 2 Samuel 7:11 even from the day that I appointed judges over My people Israel; and I have given rest to thee from all thine enemies, and Jehovah hath declared to thee that Jehovah doth make for thee a house. 12 `When thy days are full, and thou hast lain with thy fathers, then I have raised up thy seed after thee which goeth out from thy bowels, and have established his kingdom; 13 He doth build a house for My Name, and I have established the throne of his kingdom unto the age. 14 I am to him for a father, and he is to Me for a son; whom in his dealings perversely I have even reproved with a rod of men, and with strokes of the sons of Adam

Jodi Lee,

How about Isaiah 44:6?

Quote

6   Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel,                And his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts:                I am the First and I am the Last;                Besides Me there is no God.

Jehovah calls Himself the King of Israel and also Israel's Redeemer (“goel”). The Hebrew “goel” means “blood relative-redeemer.”

Okay Jodi, where in the Bible is the Father called “the King of Israel?” Answer: No where. It was Jesus who rode into Jerusalem as the King of Israel. (John 12).

Where in the Bible is the Father called Israel's “blood relative-redeemer?” Answer: No where. It is Christ who was born according to the seed of David and who redeemed Israel with His precious blood.

Jehovah also called Himself the “First and the Last.” Where in the Bible is the Father called the First and the Last? Answer: No where. It is Jesus who calls Himself the First and the Last three times in the book of Revelation (chap 2 & 22). The Father has not said this of Himself.

Jehovah also said, “Beside me there is no God.” Therefore, in all the passages you presented above Jesus must be the Person speaking. When are you going to let the New Testament interpret the Old? If Jesus is not the Person speaking in the passages you give then you have TWO Kings of Israel and TWO blood relative-redeemers and TWO that are the First and the Last and TWO that said “beside me there is no God.”

Jesus said, “Before Abraham was I AM.” What about this do you not understand?

thinker

[NickHassan]

Hi TT,
Inference is the best you can offer?
Good enough to teach what Jesus and his brothers never taught?

[Author]

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