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Hi t8,
You say that the Spirit speaks through Jesus but then you interpret the words as if the man was taking about himself?
Something does not fit here.
Hi t8,
So who came in the flesh and what does coming in the flesh mean to you?
The Word became flesh thus the Word came in the flesh, and if Jesus came in the flesh, then that strongly implies that he is actually the Word of God that was with God in the beginning that became flesh, more so than he was that flesh that the Word came in. If the latter, then that implies an oxymoron, that this flesh came in the flesh.
If Jesus is the flesh, then according to scripture flesh came in the flesh.
This of course is wrong. We already know that he existed in the form of God and that cannot be talking of the flesh right.
As you say, the flesh counts for nothing. Some draw his genealogy in the flesh and stop there. Other don’t doubt the flesh, but his origin further back to the Word that was with God and it is also written that his origins are from long ago suggesting that his origin was even before the scripture was written.
“But as for you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, Too little to be among the clans of Judah, From you One will go forth for Me to be ruler in Israel. His goings forth are from long ago, From the days of eternity.”
While it is clearly a prophecy for the future in the context of when the scripture was written, it is referring to the past, the days of eternity, long ago as being the timing of his origin. This far exceeds his beginning in the flesh.
He is an earthen vessel that contains the treasure of the Spirit.
Is he the earthen vessel or the treasure of the Spirit then? Or is he the fusion of both to you?
If the latter, is that what you are too? Or are you the flesh, or the treasure of the Spirit?
Who is he and who are you exactly?
I am a soul, inside a body, with the breath of God inside me to give me life. I am neither the body, nor the breath, but the soul. What are you? What is Jesus?
Hi t8,
Do you not accept what scripture says about us?
It says we are vessels.
2Tim 2.20f
2Cor 4 7
We are souls living in tents
2Cor 5
“I am a soul, inside a body, with the breath of God inside me to give me life.”
So are we all.
Jesus was too.
Hi t8,
What is it about what scripture says about us being vessels that you do not understand?
We did not say it-scripture did.
Hi t8,
So you think Jesus was in no way a man like us.
You think his soul and spirit were of not of earthly origin but he was a heavenly being only clad in flesh.
You do not believe he was anointed from above because he did not need to be.
If so you make him impossible to follow and deny a lot of scripture.
t8,
Did you know that Philos of Alexandria spoke of the Koine Greek language with these words:
When the scripture uses the Greek term for God ho theos, it refers to the true God, but when it uses the term theos, without the article ho, it refers not to the God, but to his most ancient Logos (Somn. 1.229-230).
He is speaking of the Koine Greek OT but it can be seen in John 1c that John is claiming the same thing.
Nick,
Koine Greek is a language use to express Spiritual things. God chose to use it are you condemning him?
Hi KW,
Using any particular language cuts no ice with God.
Neither does any culture.
There is no longer Jew nor Greek in Christ.
Nick,
Are you still criticizing God’s choices?
He uses the Koine Greek language and other languages to reveal Spiritual truths.
Jews and Greeks are both united in Christ but Jews speak Hebrew and Greeks speak Greek and each understands the message in their own language and not one they do not know.
Hi KW,
To hear the voice of God does not require a certain human language.
You elevate man and his languages too much
Nick, I am, not sure of your point, but the spirit can speak through any of God’s sons without them talking about themselves.
Jesus said that he only speaks what he hears the Father speaking. Thus Jesus is speaking, but choosing the words of his Father.
This is not necessarily Jesus as an empty shell with God inside speaking and doing.New International Version
For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken.New American Standard Bible
“For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.International Standard Version
because I haven’t spoken on my own authority. Instead, the Father who sent me has himself commanded me what to say and how to speak.Thus Jesus was compliant with God, so God was in Christ.
t8,
It is Jesus speaking as he is carried along by the Holy Spirit.
It is like speaking as one is being carried along by the spirit of charity.
That choice of words imply he had flesh before he came.
It does to you because you have applied your own understanding to it.
What if “He existed in the form of God, emptied himself, came in the flesh…” actually said:
He existed in the USA, denied his citizenship, and came to England.
I suppose if you believed he never existed in the USA, then you could believe that it was saying that he pre-existed in England. But what causes that is your own bias, not the text itself.
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