Preexistence

[kerwin]

T,

Quote

Jn 1:30 This is the one I meant when I said, ‘A man who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’

“A man”, not an angel.

[kerwin]

T,

Quote

Lk 24:49 I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high.”

The “what” is the Spirit and Jesus did not have the authority to send it until he went away, John 16:7.

[2besee]

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 23 2013,03:24)

2bee Quote “Can a man born of human parents save themselves or anyone else from sin and the curse of dead that lays on all men since Adam?” Yes, Ps 49:7 No man can redeem the life of another or give to God a ransom for him— Ps 49:8 the ransom for a life is costly, no payment is ever enough— it seems that scriptures do not agree with your “YES”

No. Read it properly. What is it speaking about?

5Why should I be afraid when evil days come my way,
when the wickedness of those who deceive me surrounds me—
6those who put confidence in their wealth
and boast about their great riches?
7No man can redeem the life of another,
nor can he give to God a sufficient payment for him—
8for it would cost too much to redeem his life,
and the payments would go on forever—
9that he should go on living
and not see corruption.
10Indeed, he will see wise people die;
the stupid and the senseless will meet their doom
and leave their wealth to others.
11Their inner thoughts are on their homes forever;
their dwellings from generation to generation.
They even name their lands after themselves.

12But humanity cannot last, despite its conceit;
it will pass away just like the animals.
13This is the fate of those who are foolish
and of those who correct their words after they speak.

Interlude

14Like sheep, they are destined for the realm of the dead,
with death as their shepherd.
The upright will have dominion over them in the morning;
their strength will be consumed in the afterlife,
so that they have no home.

15God will truly redeem me from the power of Sheol.
He will surely receive me!

Scriptures say that Jesus was a man. FOR THERE IS ONE GOD AND ONE MEDIATOR BETWEEN GOD AND MEN THE MAN CHRIST JESUS.

So how do you fit that in with what you just said (That no man can redeem the life of another)?

Quote

Quote I agree that Christ was sent 'from God', 'from Heaven'. (The Holy Spirit, Son). Quote so you think that Christ his not the son of God but his holy spirit ? show me some scriptures for it

I have.

Quote

Quote I believe that the Son was Spirit and I believe that the Son pre-existed. but i believe that the son was the Holy Spirit, whereas you believe that the Son was a god of some type. If what you believe is not supported by scriptures ,your believe his void of truth and so not of God ,and so it does not do me any good ,and so I have to reject it as being evil.

Wow, that's a big statement. You believe that my belief that the Holy Spirit is the Son of God is EVIL? So you also call the inspired writings that were considered as canon once upon a time (Shepherd of Hermas) as EVIL? And not only that but all of the early church who also believed this writing? Woe. Even your beliefs that I do not agree with I would NOT call EVIL.

Quote

so show me scriptures ,and then explain all related scriptures that goes against your believe as well . Quote How can you say that people do not know God, just because they do not agree with your doctrines? Millions of people agree with your doctrine. I used to be an Arian too. I MAKE IT SIMPLE FOR YOU ,SHOW ME IN SCRIPTURES THAT WHAT I SAID HIS AGAINST THE TEACHINGS OF THE PROPHETS ,OF CHRIST AND HIS DISCIPLES ,IF YOU CAN NOT DO THAT THEN WHAT I HAVE SAID MUST BE THE TRUTH OF GOD , and for your information i do not belong to any name or religion except Christ the son of God ,

No. I have already.

[2besee]

Kerwin and Gene, you have a lot more patience than me.
i am trying.

[2besee]

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 22 2013,14:54)

Quote (2besee @ Feb. 22 2013,11:24) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 21 2013,16:20) Jesus preexisted as God. Hi Ed, What do you mean by that? (: Hi 2Besee, Just exactly what the words suggest. God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Hi Ed,

So, in what way do you believe that Jesus pre-existed as God?

[kerwin]

Quote (2besee @ Feb. 23 2013,01:42)

Kerwin and Gene, you have a lot more patience than me. i am trying.

2beesee,

Jesus taught us not to worry. Just learn and speak what you learn and let God handle the stubbornness of the hearts of others.

[2besee]

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 23 2013,09:19)

Quote (2besee @ Feb. 23 2013,01:42) Kerwin and Gene, you have a lot more patience than me. i am trying. 2beesee, Jesus taught us not to worry.  Just learn and speak what you learn and let God handle the stubbornness of the hearts of others.

Thank you Kerwin. I have come a long way from what i used to be like. I just feel shock sometimes I suppose and a lack of patience to go over things, again. There is no anger at all.

Concentrating on the issue being discussed helps, forgetting any negative things that are said.

it is just annoying, also, when previously discussed things such as word studies are forgotten and then those verses are used as proof, again.

neva mind!

Thanks.

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 23 2013,00:58)

T, Quote Mt 1:20 But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, “Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. Do you believe Jesus was conceived in Mary as a gift of the Spirit or that he instead was a transformed angel that entered her?

K

you do not answer my questions ,and make your own ;what is the name of a person that does that

Quote

Do you believe Jesus was conceived in Mary as a gift of the Spirit or that he instead was a transformed angel that entered her?

it is not an angel but the SOUL of the only begotten son of God that was put in the womb of Mary to create a flesh body ,that's how a surrogate mother works and does ;

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 23 2013,01:21)

T, Quote Lk 24:49 I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high.” The “what” is the Spirit and Jesus did not have the authority to send it until he went away, John 16:7.

K

what “spirit” are you talking about

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 23 2013,01:13)

T, Quote Jn 1:30 This is the one I meant when I said, ‘A man who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’ “A man”, not an angel.

K

you are not truthful ,why you only use the first part of the scripture

are you afraid to comment on the second part

“”” has surpassed me because he(Christ the man) was before “””

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 23 2013,01:10)

T, Quote Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. I have not looked at the Greek behind these words but this version does noes not support the claim that Jesus was the first created by Jehovah.  “over” gives the context and Jesus was given authority over all things in heaven and on earth previously to the time Colossians 1:15 was written but not previously to his conception, Matthew 28:18, Philippians 2:8-11.

K

so if you do not know ,why then even answer me with scriptures that have nothing to do with the scriptures I have shown you,

and again you pick and chose your verse to respond to ,this shows you have no clue in truth but have a lot of opinions ,

so come back wen you can answer me truthfully ,as you should

[terraricca]

Quote (2besee @ Feb. 23 2013,01:36)

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 23 2013,03:24) 2bee Quote “Can a man born of human parents save themselves or anyone else from sin and the curse of dead that lays on all men since Adam?” Yes, Ps 49:7 No man can redeem the life of another or give to God a ransom for him— Ps 49:8 the ransom for a life is costly, no payment is ever enough— it seems that scriptures do not agree with your “YES” No. Read it properly. What is it speaking about? 5Why should I be afraid when evil days come my way, when the wickedness of those who deceive me surrounds me— 6those who put confidence in their wealth and boast about their great riches? 7No man can redeem the life of another, nor can he give to God a sufficient payment for him— 8for it would cost too much to redeem his life, and the payments would go on forever— 9that he should go on living and not see corruption. 10Indeed, he will see wise people die; the stupid and the senseless will meet their doom and leave their wealth to others. 11Their inner thoughts are on their homes forever; their dwellings from generation to generation. They even name their lands after themselves. 12But humanity cannot last, despite its conceit; it will pass away just like the animals. 13This is the fate of those who are foolish and of those who correct their words after they speak. Interlude 14Like sheep, they are destined for the realm of the dead, with death as their shepherd. The upright will have dominion over them in the morning; their strength will be consumed in the afterlife, so that they have no home. 15God will truly redeem me from the power of Sheol. He will surely receive me! Scriptures say that Jesus was a man. FOR THERE IS ONE GOD AND ONE MEDIATOR BETWEEN GOD AND MEN THE MAN CHRIST JESUS. So how do you fit that in with what you just said (That no man can redeem the life of another)? Quote Quote I agree that Christ was sent 'from God', 'from Heaven'. (The Holy Spirit, Son). Quote so you think that Christ his not the son of God but his holy spirit ? show me some scriptures for it I have. Quote Quote I believe that the Son was Spirit and I believe that the Son pre-existed. but i believe that the son was the Holy Spirit, whereas you believe that the Son was a god of some type. If what you believe is not supported by scriptures ,your believe his void of truth and so not of God ,and so it does not do me any good ,and so I have to reject it as being evil. Wow, that's a big statement. You believe that my belief that the Holy Spirit is the Son of God is EVIL? So you also call the inspired writings that were considered as canon once upon a time (Shepherd of Hermas) as EVIL? And not only that but all of the early church who also believed this writing? Woe. Even your beliefs that I do not agree with I would NOT call EVIL. Quote so show me scriptures ,and then explain all related scriptures that goes against your believe as well . Quote How can you say that people do not know God, just because they do not agree with your doctrines? Millions of people agree with your doctrine. I used to be an Arian too. I MAKE IT SIMPLE FOR YOU ,SHOW ME IN SCRIPTURES THAT WHAT I SAID HIS AGAINST THE TEACHINGS OF THE PROPHETS ,OF CHRIST AND HIS DISCIPLES ,IF YOU CAN NOT DO THAT THEN WHAT I HAVE SAID MUST BE THE TRUTH OF GOD , and for your information i do not belong to any name or religion except Christ the son of God , No. I have already.

2bbe

Quote

No. Read it properly. What is it speaking about?

I am not like you ,I read the scriptures and search the understanding in them ;

if you read all of those scriptures you so generously showed ,you will notice that they talk about the corruption of man ,

and for those reasons none can paid the price to God for their redemption

Quote

Scriptures say that Jesus was a man. FOR THERE IS ONE GOD AND ONE MEDIATOR BETWEEN GOD AND MEN THE MAN CHRIST JESUS. So how do you fit that in with what you just said (That no man can redeem the life of another)?

so you do not know who his Christ right

and you do not believe Paul right

Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
Col 1:18 And
he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.
Col 1:19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,
Col 1:20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.
Col 1:21 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior.
Col 1:22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—

it seems to me you are not seeing the sacrifice that God made for us ,you only see the flesh ,what stands for nothing ,

all man born from the seed of Adam have the curse of dead ;

this is why none can paid the price ;

this his why God SEND HIS ONLY SON DOWN TO EARTH TO PAID THE PRICE TO SAVE CREATION MADE THROUGH HIM ,THIS IS WHY IT SAYS ,HE CAME TO HIS OWN BUT THEY DID NOT RECOGNIZE HIM ,;;THIS HIS WHY CHRIST SAID HE COMES FROM THE FATHER,;THIS IS WHY CHRIST SAID THAT HE WILL RETURN TO HIS FATHER IF HE RETURN HE MUST HAVE COME FIRST ;;CAN YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THIS

THE WORD ” OF GOD HIS CHRIST JESUS THAT CAME DOWN TO SAVE US FROM THE DEVIL,

IF YOU CAN NOT SEE AND UNDERSTAND THIS YOU HAVE NOT COME TO UNDERSTAND SCRIPTURES BECAUSE IT LOOKS LIKE YOU KNOW BETTER THAN GOD HIMSELF ,

[terraricca]

2BEE

Quote
I agree that Christ was sent 'from God', 'from Heaven'. (The Holy Spirit, Son).

Quote
so you think that Christ his not the son of God but his holy spirit ?
show me some scriptures for it

your answer ;
I have.

sorry but I can not see them

[terraricca]

2be
my quote ;;

Quote

I MAKE IT SIMPLE FOR YOU ,SHOW ME IN SCRIPTURES THAT WHAT I SAID HIS AGAINST THE TEACHINGS OF THE PROPHETS ,OF CHRIST AND HIS DISCIPLES ,IF YOU CAN NOT DO THAT THEN WHAT I HAVE SAID MUST BE THE TRUTH OF GOD ,

you answer ;;

Quote

No. I have already.

you have done nothing of a sort ;because if you did you would have shown me ;that answer is your way out from answering ;

this I knew ,from people who does not have truth

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 23 2013,05:59)

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 23 2013,01:13) T, Quote Jn 1:30 This is the one I meant when I said, ‘A man who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’ “A man”, not an angel. K you are not truthful ,why you only use the first part of the scripture are you afraid to comment on the second part “”” has surpassed me because he(Christ the man) was before “””

T,

As you say, the human who comes after John has surpassed him because he was before John.

But don't you instead believe that the angel who comes after John has surpassed him because he was before John?

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 23 2013,05:28)

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 23 2013,01:21) T, Quote Lk 24:49 I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high.” The “what” is the Spirit and Jesus did not have the authority to send it until he went away, John 16:7. K what “spirit” are you talking about

T,

The one spoken of in John 16:7.

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 23 2013,06:32)

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 23 2013,05:59) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 23 2013,01:13) T, Quote Jn 1:30 This is the one I meant when I said, ‘A man who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’ “A man”, not an angel. K you are not truthful ,why you only use the first part of the scripture are you afraid to comment on the second part “”” has surpassed me because he(Christ the man) was before “”” T, As you say, the human who comes after John has surpassed him because he was before John. But don't you instead believe that the angel who comes after John has surpassed him because he was before John?

K

did John talks about that angel or did he talked about THE WORD (THE CHRIST)???

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 23 2013,05:25)

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 23 2013,00:58) T, Quote Mt 1:20 But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, “Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. Do you believe Jesus was conceived in Mary as a gift of the Spirit or that he instead was a transformed angel that entered her? K you do not answer my questions ,and make your own ;what is the name of a person that does that Quote Do you believe Jesus was conceived in Mary as a gift of the Spirit or that he instead was a transformed angel that entered her? it is not an angel but the SOUL of the only begotten son of God that was put in the womb of Mary to create a flesh body ,that's how a surrogate mother works and does ;

T,

Thank you as I was unsure where you stood on this issue.

Do you believe Jesus' flesh was conceived in Mary?

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 23 2013,06:37)

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 23 2013,06:32) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 23 2013,05:59) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 23 2013,01:13) T, Quote Jn 1:30 This is the one I meant when I said, ‘A man who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’ “A man”, not an angel. K you are not truthful ,why you only use the first part of the scripture are you afraid to comment on the second part “”” has surpassed me because he(Christ the man) was before “”” T, As you say, the human who comes after John has surpassed him because he was before John. But don't you instead believe that the angel who comes after John has surpassed him because he was before John? K did John talks about that angel or did he talked about THE WORD (THE CHRIST)???

T,

In that verse he is clearly talking about a man.

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 23 2013,06:34)

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 23 2013,05:28) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 23 2013,01:21) T, Quote Lk 24:49 I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high.” The “what” is the Spirit and Jesus did not have the authority to send it until he went away, John 16:7. K what “spirit” are you talking about T, The one spoken of in John 16:7.

K

you do not see what you are saying ,and do not understand it neither ,

that what you say his false;

Mt 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

and you have the reason for him to send the comforter to his disciples wrong ;

the comforter was send to them in replacement of him going away and so that they would not feel lost being alone ;this was the true reason

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