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Quote (Arnold @ Aug. 12 2010,17:54) Quote (t8 @ Aug. 12 2010,10:36) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 12 2010,01:43) T8……..When are you going to realize the Word of GOD (WAS, WAS, WAS, WAS, WAS, WAS, WAS, GOD!. Not Jesus, God created everything by Speaking them into existence. GOD and His WORDS are ONE and the Same thing as You and Your Words are. You can not separate a Man from his words nor GOD from His words. Why can't you understand that brother?
Gene, it doesn't say that the Word was God. That is the same as saying that the Word was the God. And this means that the Word is God to the exclusion of the Father being God. This is where both yourself and Trinitarians misrepresent John 1:1.You need a lesson in definite articles and what they mean and do in the Greek language. Think of a capital letter as in your name.
If I said, Eve was Adam, it would mean that Eve was literally Adam. If I said, Eve was adam, then I would be correct, because I would be saying that Eve's nature was man(kind).
Now the Word was WITH God and this you cannot deny. The Word that was WITH God is preceded by a definite article and God is not. You ignore this and it leads you into error.
John 1:1 and 1John 1:1 go together perfectly.
Jesus is the Word of Life and you are telling me that he is NOT the Word of Life.
That sums it up doesn't it?
t8 Here I have to agree with WJ in John 1:1 it says in the beginning was the Word and the Word was God and was with God. Also in Hebrew 1:8 He is called God. And in Rev. 19:13 He is called The Word of God, King of Kings and Lord of Lords in verse 16. I understand that God is a title and both have other names. Our Heavenly Fathers name is Jehovah or Yahweh… Or Elohim. Jesus was the Word and will be again when He comes again….Rev, 19:13-16 explains it very nicely. Many were called God, just like Satan is called the God of this world….that does not make Him equal with the Almighty God. While He is the Mighty God. Afterall He did come forth from the Almighty God. Proverbs 8
Peace Irene
hiJohn 1-1
says exactly what is true,in the beginning the WORD(Christ was God ,this means before he was created,but then when he was with God after he was created,and then all creation came trough the Word(Christ)all scriptures will testify to that.
Pierre
Transferred as per Pierre's diplomatic request.
Kerwin wrote in Truth or Traditions thread called The Myth of Free Will
Quote Pierre,
Do you take offense which scripture declares about those not in the new covenant practice deceit with their tongues, Romans 3:13? Some of these individuals practice deceit because of ignorance but they are still practicing deceit. The ignorance may be because of biases or for another reason but it does not change the fact that the words they utter are lies. It is true that a human being can twist and corrupt the true words of God without being consciously aware that is what they are doing. Despite their lack of knowing awareness they are still guilty of sin. Satan is devious and so one can certainly be confident they are being completely honest and at the same time be lying through their teeth. The only way to escape that deadly trap is to be released by God. We are told that God will provide a way so he must do that.
Some individuals sincerely believe they have entered the new covenant when in truth they have not. They have instead been deceived by the Evil One and they in turn deceive others. Even though they have been deceived God does not hold them innocent as he always provides a way out of every temptation.
This is just a message of warning and a way to urge you and others to be guided by God.
As for me I will freely admit I am yet learning the truth in full which is why I am merely a student. On the other hand I have learned some lessons quite well. This post addresses one of these well learned lessons as does the fact that Jesus did not preexist because he is a human being just like you and me. The only exception to that fact is that Jesus is now in a resurrected human body. I do not believe that makes him essentially different from us as far as being human.
Edited to change “not” to “now” as Jesus is now in a resurrected human body. Sorry for that error and I hope it did not cause anyone grief.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 12 2010,11:29) Quote (t8 @ Aug. 11 2010,18:29) You seem to be excluding God the Father from our salvation in order to preserve your doctrine. See how your doctrine makes you stray, even without realising it?
So you admit then that when YHWH says that “HE ALONE is our Savour”, then that includes Jesus?
WJ
Yes that he is the saviour and that he saved us through Jesus. It was God's will all the way. Jesus and us are willing participants.So when I bring the gospel, I could be called a saviour, but it is really God who has made any of this possible.
Jesus said, “not MY will, but YOUR will”. There you have it. He did what God wanted. What about you?
We know that Moses saved his people from captivity. But we also know that it was all God's doing and that Moses too was a participant.
Similarly, we know that there is one Spirit, but we also know that we are given that spirit which gives us life.
See how that simple logic works. It is pervasive in scripture and everyday life.
e.g., let say I am president of the USA Dodge Ball movement. That doesn't take away from the fact that there is a president of the United States who has power over all in the USA, and is the one president (currently). The president of Dodgeball USA is and was never meant to be confused with the president of the USA, but you make a similar error.
I know this is basic stuff, but it appears you need a lesson in such things because you repeatedly show a lack of understanding in this subject. Somehow it seems that you are unable to grasp concepts that many people take for granted.
Quote (t8 @ Aug. 12 2010,11:11) The language doesn't support that Jesus is God in John 1:1, but that he was divine and was WITH God. The definite article is not there Irene. The reason Satan is called the God (with an article) is because it describes the context of him being God and that is he is God of this world. So he is THE God of this world.
So Jesus is not God of all. The God in John 1:1 is God of all, the true God. It doesn't say that the Word was either THE God or A God. You would be adding that in if you said either.
So as per you brother T8 Jesus is false God like Satan?Adam,
The writers of scripture did not create ambiguity which is innate to human languages. They did use it at times to teach some things but that was merely when addressing Jews as far as I can tell. Satan will use it to ensnare anyone as that is his way. His traps are clever and well set and ensnare those that are ignorant. I am not sure he can be said to trap the corrupt since they voluntarily embrace his schemes.
My job is to warn others of those traps but it is up to them to escape and if they are not seeking God and his righteousness they will not escape every trap the evil one strews in their paths.
Jesus speaks true when he teaches that you cannot come to him unless led by God.
Do not judge but instead be concerned for your own rescue and seek God’s righteousness and his kingdom.
Quote (942767 @ Aug. 12 2010,12:00) Hi t8: You sound like someone trying to explain the trinity. It is a mystery, they say, but no, the scriptures have plainly told us:
Absolutely not. In fact your comment is more suitable for yourself just as it is for Trinitarians.I believe that Jesus as he was, existed with divine nature, emptied himself, partook of human nature, died, rose again, and is seated at the right hand of the Father with the glory he had with him before the world began.
See that. No special interpretation needed. I am almost saying it word for word.
No, it is those who deny this who need external explanations such as: “the culture of the day didn't really mean that”.
I believe what is in italics above (in this post) and you do not. You are the one who needs to resort to something else to explain it away, whereas I just accept it as it is.
Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 12 2010,15:48) Adam, The writers of scripture did not create ambiguity which is innate to human languages. They did use it at times to teach some things but that was merely when addressing Jews as far as I can tell. Satan will use it to ensnare anyone as that is his way. His traps are clever and well set and ensnare those that are ignorant. I am not sure he can be said to trap the corrupt since they voluntarily embrace his schemes.
My job is to warn others of those traps but it is up to them to escape and if they are not seeking God and his righteousness they will not escape every trap the evil one strews in their paths.
Jesus speaks true when he teaches that you cannot come to him unless led by God.
Do not judge but instead be concerned for your own rescue and seek God’s righteousness and his kingdom.
Hi brother Kerwin,
Please see the confusion created by the so called John the author of Fourth Gospel. How brothers and sisters are fighting with one another. Is it not sufficient to prove that the writers of N.T are ambigous in describing thins about God and Jesus?Quote (gollamudi @ Aug. 12 2010,15:46) So as per you brother T8 Jesus is false God like Satan?
No.The Word was divine.
It is explaining what the Word was, not who the Word is.
e.g., when Jesus said to the disciples, “one of you is a devil”, he didn't use the definite article THE Devil, because he wasn't saying that Judas was the Devil.
He was saying that Judas was like the devil. That he had a nature or character like the Devil.
He wasn't saying that Judas as an actual devil, or THE Devil himself. He was saying that he is like the devil.That is the way the language works and many a person falls into error because of this.
Quote (gollamudi @ Aug. 12 2010,15:52) Please see the confusion created by the so called John the author of Fourth Gospel. How brothers and sisters are fighting with one another. Is it not sufficient to prove that the writers of N.T are ambigous in describing thins about God and Jesus?
It is not us who bring the confusion.
We rest on John's message and you appear to oppose him.There will always be those who oppose and that is not the fault of the one who speaks the truth. It happened to Jesus too. He was opposed by those religious minded people who thought they had the answers and were not humble enough to receive the simple truths of God as a child.
Pride is a wicked thing and leads to many a downfall.
Thanks for your explanation brother T8,
I just want to ask you one think; can you show me wherein the O.T the word was mentioned as separate person from God?Adam,
You cannot use a human language without being ambiguous. Context will aid in determining the appropriate meaning of some but it is often targeted to a specific audience who knows the subject that is being addressed. I have had people misunderstand me when I assumed they knew something that I did but they did not. I have also misunderstood others for various reasons even though they themselves believed they were speaking clearly.
With scripture the speaker is God and if we are listening for his voice we know he speaks of righteousness and so if we hear another voice we would be a fool to listen to it.
If you do not know God’s subject of conversation then your ears and eyes have not been opened and you are blind and deaf to the truth of God even though you believe you are not. I see no reason to blame the messenger for those that refuse to hear or see what he proclaims.
Quote (gollamudi @ Aug. 12 2010,16:04) Thanks for your explanation brother T8,
I just want to ask you one think; can you show me wherein the O.T the word was mentioned as separate person from God?
I am pretty sure it doesn't delve that deep. The Old Testament also doesn't say that Jesus of Nazareth is the messiah, and doesn't mention the Church either. Baptism in the Spirit is not mentioned either I think, and nor are apostles.It must be understood that the new is more revelatory and the law is the shadow of things to come.
Given that, I am aware that there is much beyond that which is written by the apostles. And so it is that as time goes on, we will be shown more.
Thank very much brother T8 for such honest confession. Infact I also could not find it any where in the Hebrew scriptures that the 'word' was a different being apart form God. But You mean to say that some thing more will be revealed to Christianity beyond what is written in the Bible. If so what is written would a partial truth than full.
Peace to you
AdamQuote (kerwin @ Aug. 12 2010,16:06) Adam, You cannot use a human language without being ambiguous. Context will aid in determining the appropriate meaning of some but it is often targeted to a specific audience who knows the subject that is being addressed. I have had people misunderstand me when I assumed they knew something that I did but they did not. I have also misunderstood others for various reasons even though they themselves believed they were speaking clearly.
With scripture the speaker is God and if we are listening for his voice we know he speaks of righteousness and so if we hear another voice we would be a fool to listen to it.
If you do not know God’s subject of conversation then your ears and eyes have not been opened and you are blind and deaf to the truth of God even though you believe you are not. I see no reason to blame the messenger for those that refuse to hear or see what he proclaims.
Hi brother Kerwin,
If the scriptures are addressed to particular group of community who could understand them properly I think they can not be applied universally as standards. I have not find one person here in this forum who could understand these ambigous concepts fully so that he can convince all. Instead I blame the content what is written rather it is not applicable to present generation.
Peace and love
AdamAdam,
You are jumping to conclusions. Just because scriptures were not necessary addressed universally does not mean that the ideas expressed in them are not universal standards. They are universal standards that were being addressed specifically to a certain group of people that varied from book to book. Luke and Acts may even have been addressed to one individual as I believe were some of Paul’s letters.
We though need to look at it from the point of view of those being addressed to the best of our ability to understand them. We do not necessary even need to know that point of view as it will reveal itself to those that hunger and thirst for righteousness as the message of God appeals to their souls. Other people will not understand it or so be led astray.
It does not care even if the scripture is completely non-understandable for if someone speaks God’s words and you reject them because you could not understand them in scripture you still did not believe God’s words.
God’s words are still applicable to us today.
Please learn to accept that some will not seek God even though they claim to do so. It is sad but true.
Quote (gollamudi @ Aug. 12 2010,17:11) Thank very much brother T8 for such honest confession. Infact I also could not find it any where in the Hebrew scriptures that the 'word' was a different being apart form God. But You mean to say that some thing more will be revealed to Christianity beyond what is written in the Bible. If so what is written would a partial truth than full.
Peace to you
Adam
It is written that in the last days, the young shall see visions, and the old shall dream dreams. It is also written that when the enemy comes in like a flood, God will pour out his Spirit as a measure against the enemy.I guess as the night gets darker and the day grows brighter the Morning Star will arise in the hearts of believers.
Thank you very much brother T8..you are the one with such great hope started this Forum called 'Heaven Net' for people like me to release their confusions and misconceptions on Biblical issues…
Love and peace again to you
AdamQuote (gollamudi @ Aug. 13 2010,00:17) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 12 2010,16:06) Adam, You cannot use a human language without being ambiguous. Context will aid in determining the appropriate meaning of some but it is often targeted to a specific audience who knows the subject that is being addressed. I have had people misunderstand me when I assumed they knew something that I did but they did not. I have also misunderstood others for various reasons even though they themselves believed they were speaking clearly.
With scripture the speaker is God and if we are listening for his voice we know he speaks of righteousness and so if we hear another voice we would be a fool to listen to it.
If you do not know God’s subject of conversation then your ears and eyes have not been opened and you are blind and deaf to the truth of God even though you believe you are not. I see no reason to blame the messenger for those that refuse to hear or see what he proclaims.
Hi brother Kerwin,
If the scriptures are addressed to particular group of community who could understand them properly I think they can not be applied universally as standards. I have not find one person here in this forum who could understand these ambigous concepts fully so that he can convince all. Instead I blame the content what is written rather it is not applicable to present generation.
Peace and love
Adam
hi Golli can understand the word of God and have no ambiguous trouble in my mind about it.
but about to convinced you or all like you septics,this would only be possible to God.
yes it is true the truth from scriptures are for a specific audience,that is the God's people.
Pierre
Yes brother Terrarica, I now become like a sceptic who questions various ambigous concepts of the Bible. I hope God invisible may enlighten my understanding as you have said.
Thanks and peace to you
AdamAdam,
God is enlightening your understanding all the time but you are having trouble seeing and hearing him. Persist in praying that he will open your eyes and ears and seek his kingdom and take every opportunity to pursue his righteousness.
I plan to add my petition to yours with hope that God will choose to do as we ask. I already hope it will be so.
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