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Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 26 2010,07:03) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 25 2010,14:14) Hi WJ,
Can you do greater things than Jesus[Jn12]
What does that make you then?
NHNo I can't, can you?
Can you dwell in every believer all over the world and be with them to the end of the world?
Didn't think so.
So you can't do greater works than he can you?
WJ
Like a dog returning to his vomit you continually throw out this nonsense and think you are so wise. . What Christ can do after his resurrection has nothing to do with him as an example while on the Earth.
Secondly, do you know what we will be capable of doing after we are resurrected? It says we are heirs and joint heirs with him. do we inheirit any sort of the same power that he does? Does a bride share the same authority as the husband in dealing with the outside world?
Scripture says that greater things shall we do because he goes to the Father. Christ opened the door and ascended into the heavenlies in power and authority. A man did it and opened the door for us to have more power in our Earthly lives through him.You ask —
Can you dwell in every believer all over the world and be with them to the end of the world?Please stop making yourself look silly by comparing Christ after his resurrection to the Christ I proclaim as my example. They have been given different power and authority. Besides the power to be in all believers is a mission of the Messiah and not for every man. I do not carry the mantle of Messiah. I can only duplicate his walk as a human. I am not expected to duplicate attributes of his messianic ministry.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 26 2010,07:48) Quote (martian @ June 25 2010,15:32) Again a silly answer. Of course we cannot be in all believers at the same time, but you are talking about things that Christ does after his resurrection. I am speaking of him as our example before his ascension into heaven.
See thats what I mean. You are serving Jesus based on just the 4 Gospels.I am serving a resurrected Jesus who lives in me by his Spirit and a Jesus who brings to life the scriptures.
Will you ever be like Jesus in every way?
Its a simple yes or no answer.
Why do you have to muddy the water all the time with a million word post full of ad hominems and oppologetics?
It is simple, Jesus is not a mere man like us in every way and if he was then we are serving a mere man and seeking to be like a mere man rather than God which would be idolatry!
WJ
Smoke screen —
You refuse to accept that Christ mission changed or expanded after his resurrection. After he was made judge over the Earth. After he can come a dwell in all the saints. Did he do any of this prior to his resurrection. Did he complete his mission as the blood sacrifice before he died?
we are to interact with humanity and with God on this Earth as Jesus did while he was on Earth. Not, in every way, as he does after his resurrection.You continue to compare apples and oranges.
The resurrected Christ is different in authority. power and abilities then he was before his death. I have never claimed to want to follow Jesus as he is now. Perhaps I will be lucky enough to get some of that after I am resurrected. I do not know. I do know my responsibility is to become as much like christ as possible in the time I have on this Earth. For my Example I use christ as my Example when he lived on this Earth.I have some things to do so I will be outta here.
Quote (martian @ June 25 2010,15:52) Like a dog returning to his vomit you continually throw out this nonsense and think you are so wise. . What Christ can do after his resurrection has nothing to do with him as an example while on the Earth.
Your ad hominems is telling!Why not just answer the question.
Do you serve a mere man or the exalted resurrected Jesus?
WJ
Quote (martian @ June 25 2010,15:52) You ask —
Can you dwell in every believer all over the world and be with them to the end of the world?Please stop making yourself look silly by comparing Christ after his resurrection to the Christ I proclaim as my example. They have been given different power and authority. Besides the power to be in all believers is a mission of the Messiah and not for every man. I do not carry the mantle of Messiah. I can only duplicate his walk as a human. I am not expected to duplicate attributes of his messianic ministry.
Omnipresence is an attribute of God.You will never be “Omnipresent will you?
WJ
This is a poor debate tactic.
Will you ever be like Jesus in every way?Its a simple yes or no answer.
It is not a simple yes or no answer because you are not being specific in what part of Christ mission and life do you speak.
Will I ever be the perfect blood sacrifice and do those things specific to the Messiah? Absolutely not. Christ died once and for all.
Will I ever become perfected humanity as Christ our example showed us? Yes with his help.
Christ carried the mantle of the Messiah but he was also a son, even as we are sons. He showed us the way to walk as sons while on the Earth. He walked as the first Adam was originally intended to walk. A perfect son that always did his father's bidding. A son that through his sufferings and testings was perfected in order to develope in him the character of his Father creator.
I can be like him because all of my failings are already forgiven. They are put as far as the East is from the West, never to be remembered against me. That means that of this very second I am innocent in God's eye. All I need do is continue to mature in character as exemplified by my brother Christ. Sin cannot stop me but a questionable Example that I cannot follow can hinder me. An example that is made up of mysticism and enigmas cannot be followed.I do not follow the example of the blood sacrifice any more then I do the actions of a prophet, teacher or evangelist. Those are all jobs or mantles given by God, but all of them and all of us are required to seek perfected humanity for ourselves. I do not need to be in all the saints at the same time. Not even after my resurrection. That is not in my job description. That is the Job of the one mediator between God and man, the MAN Christ Jesus. My calling does not require that I be appointed by God as the judge of all the Earth as the man christ was appointed.
I may have a calling, mantle or job in my life that differs from others but my primary mission on this Earth is to follow Christ into perfected humanity.
I am a Father and a son. I am a writer and a musician. I am a brother and an uncle. I am all of these things but first and foremost I am a creation of YHWH. I have a responsibility to go through this life learning all I can to become the best creation and son that I can be. For this reason My good Father gave me an example of the perfected human in My brother Christ. He now sits in heaven and intercedes for me and works on my behalf to help me follow him into that perfected humanity even as he did. What other jobs we may have and what ever Job christ had we all have this one thing in common. We are to be perfect sons of God.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 26 2010,08:14) Quote (martian @ June 25 2010,15:52) Like a dog returning to his vomit you continually throw out this nonsense and think you are so wise. . What Christ can do after his resurrection has nothing to do with him as an example while on the Earth.
Your ad hominems is telling!Why not just answer the question.
Do you serve a mere man or the exalted resurrected Jesus?
WJ
I serve a human that was resurrected and exalted just as the bible says.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 26 2010,08:17) Quote (martian @ June 25 2010,15:52) You ask —
Can you dwell in every believer all over the world and be with them to the end of the world?Please stop making yourself look silly by comparing Christ after his resurrection to the Christ I proclaim as my example. They have been given different power and authority. Besides the power to be in all believers is a mission of the Messiah and not for every man. I do not carry the mantle of Messiah. I can only duplicate his walk as a human. I am not expected to duplicate attributes of his messianic ministry.
Omnipresence is an attribute of God.You will never be “Omnipresent will you?
WJ
Was Jesus omnipresent while on this Earth?Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 26 2010,08:17) Quote (martian @ June 25 2010,15:52) You ask —
Can you dwell in every believer all over the world and be with them to the end of the world?Please stop making yourself look silly by comparing Christ after his resurrection to the Christ I proclaim as my example. They have been given different power and authority. Besides the power to be in all believers is a mission of the Messiah and not for every man. I do not carry the mantle of Messiah. I can only duplicate his walk as a human. I am not expected to duplicate attributes of his messianic ministry.
Omnipresence is an attribute of God.You will never be “Omnipresent will you?
WJ
Do you know what manner of life we will live after the resurrection? Do you know if being Joint Heirs with Christ might give us some of the qualities he earned as the firstborn to complete God's plan. might we share in some of his glory and power? I think so but I do not know how much or to what extant. Do you?Quote (martian @ June 25 2010,16:32) It is not a simple yes or no answer because you are not being specific in what part of Christ mission and life do you speak.
Of course it is a simple yes or no question.Because if Jesus is just a mere man then everything that he is now we can be or will become.
But we know that we will never be “Omnipresent”, and we know that we will never have all authority and power.
And even when he was in the flesh, could you ever be like him in everyway?
Can you have the Spirit without measure?
Why do you keep coming back for more martian?
WJ
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 25 2010,16:48) Hi WJ,
Where is OMNIPRESENCE is scripture or it it only a theological fabrication?
NHWhere is “theological fabrication” in the scripture?
You do believe God can be everywhere at the same time don't you?
Only God can have that attribute! But wait, Jesus has the very same attribute! HMMM? He looks from the heavens and laughs, yet he is in every true believer.
What a Mighty God he is!
WJ
Hi WJ,
No.
God is not abiding in sinners or in those who have known Him but do not abide in the word.[2Jn9]Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 25 2010,17:02) Hi WJ,
No.
God is not abiding in sinners or in those who have known Him but do not abide in the word.[2Jn9]
I thought I said “every believer”!WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 26 2010,08:45) Quote (martian @ June 25 2010,16:32) It is not a simple yes or no answer because you are not being specific in what part of Christ mission and life do you speak.
Of course it is a simple yes or no question.Because if Jesus is just a mere man then everything that he is now we can be or will become.
But we know that we will never be “Omnipresent”, and we know that we will never have all authority and power.
And even when he was in the flesh, could you ever be like him in everyway?
Can you have the Spirit without measure?
Why do you keep coming back for more martian?
WJ
Are we to be filled to the fullness of God?
Are we to rise to the full stature of Christ?We will have all the authority God deems fit to give us even as he gave it to Christ.
Again was Christ omnipresent while living on the Earth?
You are comparing apples and oranges.Can we be like Christ in the same way he was like God in character? Yep!!!
Why do you repeat the same nonsense?
WJ,
There is nothing 'magical' about being able to be in more than one place at the same time.
Have you ever considered how a multi-eyed spider can 'process' information from all it's eyes at the same time?
If you could be that spider you may wonder how two eyed creatures managed with 'just two', or, if the spider came across a Cyclops, then how on earth can a one eyed creatures see anything worthwhile…what is the point? We are flesh and blood, limited to a few dimensions which ensures that the elementals that mankind is composed of, are retained within those dimensions.
Outside, and within, the 'human' dimensions, are other higher dimensions, and within them, also, and within them again.
The expanded dimensions make it perfectly possible to be in more than one place at the same time, to be in one place at multiple times, to be in multiple places at multiple times, AND, to be in every place at every time.Is that hard to see? Yes? Well, it would be just as hard for a Cyclops to understand how that many-eyed spider could see with more than one eye at the same time!
There is nothing to wonder about. Jesus did not make an issue of it. He 'appeared' inside the room where his Disciple had locked themselves in. He, 'materialised' his physical body into the room. He didn't say, 'hey did you see what I just did?? Cos I'm God, innit great, yeah man!'…no, he didn't even mention it. In fact, later he was astonished at his disciples and said,'what if you see the Son of Man ascend into heaven in front of you?' and again, when he did, the two 'men in white robes' said, 'Men of Galilee, why do you stand there looking up into the heavens…?.. Something like that…
What it means is that materialising and dematerialising are not great phenominal events.
To you, It's like a child who seems mesmerised by the magicians disappearing coin, or 'woman in a box' tricks. To an adult, or a 'clever' person (not necessarily 'intelligent!) those things are 'transparent', obvious, 'no brainers'…
Now, because you cannot find anything else to try and claim that Jesus is God, you fall down to claiming that being able to be 'Omnipresent' is restricted to God, and therefore Jesus Must Be God…!Isn't this, 'Only God' can do this or that', rather a littlr 'Yesterdays' claims, like, 'Only God can forgive sins, so Jesus must be God', yet Jesus himself say we should forgive the sins of our one another, and whom ever we forgive on earth, He will forgive in Heaven. Why so,? because his Father has given him authority to do so, not because he himself possessed it..but because it was given to him. A God, 'The God' possesses Everything' and needs nothing, so how is Jesus 'God', if his Father has to give him the very 'power and authority' that a ..'The God' should already possess…and then, 'your God' gives it all back to 'Our God', 'My God', 'The God'?
WJ, do have any credible evidence for your retainance in a creed that doesn't hold water? The Creed that causes you to sin every moment because you know that you make up untruths to try and justify it's existence and impossible creedability.
WJ, if it is going to cause you to make an untruth, then please do not respond. WJ, 'Do not Grieve the Holy Spirit'
If you respond with an untruth, you grieve the Holy Spirit…be careful and, WorshippingJesus, 'Worship God, and God alone'!
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 26 2010,08:17) Quote (martian @ June 25 2010,15:52) You ask —
Can you dwell in every believer all over the world and be with them to the end of the world?Please stop making yourself look silly by comparing Christ after his resurrection to the Christ I proclaim as my example. They have been given different power and authority. Besides the power to be in all believers is a mission of the Messiah and not for every man. I do not carry the mantle of Messiah. I can only duplicate his walk as a human. I am not expected to duplicate attributes of his messianic ministry.
Omnipresence is an attribute of God.You will never be “Omnipresent will you?
WJ
WJhow can God be “Omnipresent ?
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ June 25 2010,18:13) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 26 2010,08:17) Quote (martian @ June 25 2010,15:52) You ask —
Can you dwell in every believer all over the world and be with them to the end of the world?Please stop making yourself look silly by comparing Christ after his resurrection to the Christ I proclaim as my example. They have been given different power and authority. Besides the power to be in all believers is a mission of the Messiah and not for every man. I do not carry the mantle of Messiah. I can only duplicate his walk as a human. I am not expected to duplicate attributes of his messianic ministry.
Omnipresence is an attribute of God.You will never be “Omnipresent will you?
WJ
WJhow can God be “Omnipresent ?
Pierre
How can God be infinite and not be “omnipresent”?WJ
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