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Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 15 2010,10:06) Martian said: Quote As I have said many many times if your interpretation or conclusions make Christ anything other then a normal human being that we can immulate (as is very clear in God's plan) then your conclusions are wrong. No matter what you think the scripture says.
Then the author to the Hebrews was wrong for he said that Christ was a high priest who was without weakness.Hebrews 7:28, For the law appoints as high priests men who have weakness, but the word of the oath, which came after the law, appoints the Son who has been perfected forever.
*The law appointed men as high priests who have weakness
*The oath appointed a man who did not have weakness
Ergo, Christ was not a “normal” High Priest which in turn infers that He was not a “normal” man.
Verse 16 says that Christ was appointed High priest according to His indestructible life. Again, this doesn't appear “normal” to me. But for some reason Martian takes consolation in having a high priest that is as weak as himself. Go figure.
the Roo
Hi KJ,
Your questions are true. It is the fate of our NT. The writers are so ambigous about their concepts therefore such a havoc among Churches today to struggle to understand them. The result is unending debates. Yes you are right the NT says Jesus was not an ordinary human but a super human who came down from heaven like a visitor from alien planet and flown back like a first astronaut. This is the mythology of NT. But no unitarian will agree with such language. They want to disprove them but they can not succeed since the NT is like that.Peace to you
AdamHi brother Nick,
The so called spirit filled people also debating like that in this forum. What is the difference?Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 15 2010,04:54) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 15 2010,09:31) Hi KJ,
Serious answers are offered to serious students of scripture.
Dogma salesmen get less.
Verse 4 says that the prophecy is against the King of Babylon. True or false?KJ
That is irrelevant since God is known to deal in type thus he can use one example of a type to refer to another person that is the same type.In this case he could be using Satan to refer to the King of Babylon.
The prophecy is still against the King of Babylon who is following the same path Satan tred before him.
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 15 2010,10:06) Martian said: Quote As I have said many many times if your interpretation or conclusions make Christ anything other then a normal human being that we can immulate (as is very clear in God's plan) then your conclusions are wrong. No matter what you think the scripture says.
Then the author to the Hebrews was wrong for he said that Christ was a high priest who was without weakness.Hebrews 7:28, For the law appoints as high priests men who have weakness, but the word of the oath, which came after the law, appoints the Son who has been perfected forever.
*The law appointed men as high priests who have weakness
*The oath appointed a man who did not have weakness
Ergo, Christ was not a “normal” High Priest which in turn infers that He was not a “normal” man.
Verse 16 says that Christ was appointed High priest according to His indestructible life. Again, this doesn't appear “normal” to me. But for some reason Martian takes consolation in having a high priest that is as weak as himself. Go figure.
the Roo
As I said your conclusion causes so many many contradictions about Christ full humanity that it is silly. Since your conclusion is wrong then something has gone amiss in the way you interpret scripture.
Of course a first year Christian could see your mistake a mile away.
Heb 7
Verse 14 – Christ deScended from tribe of Judah HUMAN HERITAGE
16 “HAS BECOME” means there was a time when he was not high priest.
Verse 23 and 24 Human priests die and end their mission as priests. Christ is a priest forever after his resurrection
Verse 25 Christ always lives. this is obviously after his resurrection and not before. The entire context of the section of verse compares the temporary priesthood with the permanent priesthood of Christ after his resurrection.Quote (martian @ June 16 2010,02:25) Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 15 2010,10:06) Martian said: Quote As I have said many many times if your interpretation or conclusions make Christ anything other then a normal human being that we can immulate (as is very clear in God's plan) then your conclusions are wrong. No matter what you think the scripture says.
Then the author to the Hebrews was wrong for he said that Christ was a high priest who was without weakness.Hebrews 7:28, For the law appoints as high priests men who have weakness, but the word of the oath, which came after the law, appoints the Son who has been perfected forever.
*The law appointed men as high priests who have weakness
*The oath appointed a man who did not have weakness
Ergo, Christ was not a “normal” High Priest which in turn infers that He was not a “normal” man.
Verse 16 says that Christ was appointed High priest according to His indestructible life. Again, this doesn't appear “normal” to me. But for some reason Martian takes consolation in having a high priest that is as weak as himself. Go figure.
the Roo
As I said your conclusion causes so many many contradictions about Christ full humanity that it is silly. Since your conclusion is wrong then something has gone amiss in the way you interpret scripture.
Of course a first year Christian could see your mistake a mile away.
Heb 7
Verse 14 – Christ deScended from tribe of Judah HUMAN HERITAGE
16 “HAS BECOME” means there was a time when he was not high priest.
Verse 23 and 24 Human priests die and end their mission as priests. Christ is a priest forever after his resurrection
Verse 25 Christ always lives. this is obviously after his resurrection and not before. The entire context of the section of verse compares the temporary priesthood with the permanent priesthood of Christ after his resurrection.
You assume that our humanity is true humanity. The fact is that our humanity is fallen and therefore is not true. What Bible are you reading?Does the scripture not say that the law appointed men as high priests that had weakness? Does it not say that Christ was not appointed by law but by oath? Therefore, Christ had no weakness.
Prove your assumption that humanity as we know it is true humanity.
Kangaroo Jack
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 16 2010,02:38) Quote (martian @ June 16 2010,02:25) Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 15 2010,10:06) Martian said: Quote As I have said many many times if your interpretation or conclusions make Christ anything other then a normal human being that we can immulate (as is very clear in God's plan) then your conclusions are wrong. No matter what you think the scripture says.
Then the author to the Hebrews was wrong for he said that Christ was a high priest who was without weakness.Hebrews 7:28, For the law appoints as high priests men who have weakness, but the word of the oath, which came after the law, appoints the Son who has been perfected forever.
*The law appointed men as high priests who have weakness
*The oath appointed a man who did not have weakness
Ergo, Christ was not a “normal” High Priest which in turn infers that He was not a “normal” man.
Verse 16 says that Christ was appointed High priest according to His indestructible life. Again, this doesn't appear “normal” to me. But for some reason Martian takes consolation in having a high priest that is as weak as himself. Go figure.
the Roo
As I said your conclusion causes so many many contradictions about Christ full humanity that it is silly. Since your conclusion is wrong then something has gone amiss in the way you interpret scripture.
Of course a first year Christian could see your mistake a mile away.
Heb 7
Verse 14 – Christ deScended from tribe of Judah HUMAN HERITAGE
16 “HAS BECOME” means there was a time when he was not high priest.
Verse 23 and 24 Human priests die and end their mission as priests. Christ is a priest forever after his resurrection
Verse 25 Christ always lives. this is obviously after his resurrection and not before. The entire context of the section of verse compares the temporary priesthood with the permanent priesthood of Christ after his resurrection.
You assume that our humanity is true humanity. The fact is that our humanity is fallen and therefore is not true. What Bible are you reading?Does the scripture not say that the law appointed men as high priests that had weakness? Does it not say that Christ was not appointed by law but by oath? Therefore, Christ had no weakness.
Prove your assumption that humanity as we know it is true humanity.
Kangaroo Jack
TRUE HUMANITY?
WHAT PLANET ARE YOU ON???
You need to go talk to Elvis and get your story straight.There are two missions of Christ. One is to be our savior and buy back the position we lost at the fall. The second is as important. He is to be the perfect example of walking with God as a human being. People constantly come up with erroneous conclusions from scripture that invalidate one or both of these functions of Christ.
If you make Christ some hybrid “God/man” or give any advantage through a preexistence or make him some super human then you invalidate him as the perfect example for us. These beliefs bring into question every example that Christ set for us. We are to overcome as he did — But how can we do that if he is not like us.
We are to be raised from the dead — but how can we know that we can be raised without an example that has already been through the process. An example that is just like us.
God does not leave huge loop holes like these in his covenants.
Personally I do not care what people think they can prove from scripture if it contradicts the missions of Christ. I am not interested in scriptural point counter point. I do not need it to prove my point. If the end conclusion of their scriptural diatribe ends up contradicting the 2 missions of Christ then there IS NO WAY IT CAN BE TRUE.Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 15 2010,10:06) Martian said: Quote As I have said many many times if your interpretation or conclusions make Christ anything other then a normal human being that we can immulate (as is very clear in God's plan) then your conclusions are wrong. No matter what you think the scripture says.
Then the author to the Hebrews was wrong for he said that Christ was a high priest who was without weakness.Hebrews 7:28, For the law appoints as high priests men who have weakness, but the word of the oath, which came after the law, appoints the Son who has been perfected forever.
*The law appointed men as high priests who have weakness
*The oath appointed a man who did not have weakness
Ergo, Christ was not a “normal” High Priest which in turn infers that He was not a “normal” man.
Verse 16 says that Christ was appointed High priest according to His indestructible life. Again, this doesn't appear “normal” to me. But for some reason Martian takes consolation in having a high priest that is as weak as himself. Go figure.
the Roo
It does not say Christ had no weaknesses. You are reading that into the text. In fact it says in many places he was perfected. To be perfected one must go from imperfect to perfect.Heb 7:28 –
For the Law appoints men as high priests who are weak, but the word of the oath, which came after the Law, appoints a Son, made perfect forever.
The word made perfect or perfected in some translations means the following.
1.to make perfect, complete
a.to carry through completely, to accomplish, finish, bring to an end
2.to complete (perfect)
a.add what is yet wanting in order to render a thing full
b.to be found perfect
3.to bring to the end (goal) proposed
4.to accomplish
a.bring to a close or fulfilment by event
of the prophecies of the scripPerfection is a process that Christ completed. We have not completed that process. This is why after completing that process and being the completed example for us, even unto death, he was made a priest forever with eternal life.
Quote (martian @ June 15 2010,14:05) Personally I do not care what people think they can prove from scripture if it contradicts the missions of Christ. I am not interested in scriptural point counter point. I do not need it to prove my point. If the end conclusion of their scriptural diatribe ends up contradicting the 2 missions of Christ then there IS NO WAY IT CAN BE TRUE.
MartianAnd personally we do not care that you have set up a false dichotomy to justify you denial of the scriptures that disagree with you!
You have not included the main mission of Christ and that is to reveal who God is! For how can you be saved if you do not know the one who is the only Savour?
And who can better exemplify what man is supposed to be than the creator himself?
God can become anything that he wants to become and in fact that is what he did.
How did men serve and follow YHWH before Jesus came in the flesh? Did they need a mere man to show them how to follow him?
Jesus had the Spirit without measure and that means he had an advantage over us, so I guess that blows your manmade theory into oblivion doesn't it?
WJ
Hi WJ,
For you Logic is better that what is written?
Why do you not believe in the Son of God given God's Spirit without measure?Quote (martian @ June 15 2010,14:25) Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 15 2010,10:06) Martian said: Quote As I have said many many times if your interpretation or conclusions make Christ anything other then a normal human being that we can immulate (as is very clear in God's plan) then your conclusions are wrong. No matter what you think the scripture says.
Then the author to the Hebrews was wrong for he said that Christ was a high priest who was without weakness.Hebrews 7:28, For the law appoints as high priests men who have weakness, but the word of the oath, which came after the law, appoints the Son who has been perfected forever.
*The law appointed men as high priests who have weakness
*The oath appointed a man who did not have weakness
Ergo, Christ was not a “normal” High Priest which in turn infers that He was not a “normal” man.
Verse 16 says that Christ was appointed High priest according to His indestructible life. Again, this doesn't appear “normal” to me. But for some reason Martian takes consolation in having a high priest that is as weak as himself. Go figure.
the Roo
It does not say Christ had no weaknesses. You are reading that into the text. In fact it says in many places he was perfected. To be perfected one must go from imperfect to perfect.Heb 7:28 –
For the Law appoints men as high priests who are weak, but the word of the oath, which came after the Law, appoints a Son, made perfect forever.
The word made perfect or perfected in some translations means the following.
1.to make perfect, complete
a.to carry through completely, to accomplish, finish, bring to an end
2.to complete (perfect)
a.add what is yet wanting in order to render a thing full
b.to be found perfect
3.to bring to the end (goal) proposed
4.to accomplish
a.bring to a close or fulfilment by event
of the prophecies of the scripPerfection is a process that Christ completed. We have not completed that process. This is why after completing that process and being the completed example for us, even unto death, he was made a priest forever with eternal life.
Hi ALLYes Jesus did “carry through completely, to accomplish, and finish” the work that he came to do for no other could because he was/is the Word that was with God and was/is God who had the Spirit without measure just as the Father has the Spirit without measure.
Therefore Jesus who is God in the flesh and the creator of all things had an advantage over us and could perfectly exemplify what the man should be as well as perfectly reveal what and who the invisible God is.
WJ
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 15 2010,14:37) Hi WJ,
For you Logic is better that what is written?
Why do you not believe in the Son of God given God's Spirit without measure?
NHThe Father has the Spirit without measure to doesn't he?
WJ
Hi WJ,
Of course the Spirit is of God so why do you doubt that Jesus was His son that He filled with his Spirit?Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 15 2010,14:44) Hi WJ,
Of course the Spirit is of God so why do you doubt that Jesus was His son that He filled with his Spirit?
NHAnd why do you doubt that they are “One”?
WJ
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 15 2010,14:47) Hi WJ,
The Spirit made them one.
So back to your problem?
NHSo the Spirit made the Father and the Son One?
HMMM?
Is the Spirit greater than the Father and the Son? I thought the Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son?
WJ
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