Preexistence

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,,
He cannot change as he has a parish to lead.
Where to?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (942767 @ April 05 2010,20:59)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 06 2010,12:40) Quote (942767 @ April 05 2010,20:11) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 06 2010,11:10) Quote (martian @ April 05 2010,18:19) Funny how they cling to Thomas calling Christ God as definitive proof of his deity and yet – They make excuses when Jesus himself calls The leaders of Israel Gods. This is a lie, Jesus doesn't call the leaders of Israel “Gods” with a big “G” but he quotes the Psalmist calling wicked judges and kings “gods” of which he says “they will die like men“ Thats because they were men and not “gods” at all. Jesus was rebuking their hypocrosy for condemning him when he says he was the Son of God, when they believed in “Their Law” he calls it (he is refering to the Talmud the oral laws and traditions of the Jews) in which they had falsly interpreted the scripture as condoning Polytheism! WJ Hi WJ: And so, they were men and not gods?  Is Jesus a man? Quote 5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus Love in Christ, Marty Marty Scriptures calls Jesus both. So should you! WJ Hi WJ: The scripture that I quoted says that there is “One God”, and you won't even accept that fact that Jesus himself has told you that he was going to his God and our God.  What will it take to convince you?  If you stop up your ears so that you won't hear what the scriptures say in order to continue in your doctrine, I guess there is no hope that you will ever come into the knowledge of the simple truth. He is my Lord and I love him and as submitted to God through him, but no, he is not my God. And so, you say that I should call him God because you say so? I am sorry to dissapoint you, but I will only obey the Word of God. Love in Christ, Marty

Quote (942767 @ April 05 2010,20:59)

What will it take to convince you?  If you stop up your ears so that you won't hear what the scriptures say in order to continue in your doctrine, I guess there is no hope that you will ever come into the knowledge of the simple truth.

Marty

You have a right to believe I am wrong, but how dare you make judgment on my relationship with the Lord by saying that I have stopped my ears to simple truth just because I do not agree with you and your doctrine.

I have studied the scriptures for 36 years and have never been convinced to accept “another Jesus” than the one I first recieved. The scriptures have only strengthened my view of who Jesus really is!

You have not proved your case and even if you think you have, can you say that you have perfect truth or that you are the only one here that loves the Lord and hears his voice? Do you think I havn't prayed about these things also?

WJ

[942767]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 06 2010,13:29)

Quote (942767 @ April 05 2010,20:59) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 06 2010,12:40) Quote (942767 @ April 05 2010,20:11) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 06 2010,11:10) Quote (martian @ April 05 2010,18:19) Funny how they cling to Thomas calling Christ God as definitive proof of his deity and yet – They make excuses when Jesus himself calls The leaders of Israel Gods. This is a lie, Jesus doesn't call the leaders of Israel “Gods” with a big “G” but he quotes the Psalmist calling wicked judges and kings “gods” of which he says “they will die like men“ Thats because they were men and not “gods” at all. Jesus was rebuking their hypocrosy for condemning him when he says he was the Son of God, when they believed in “Their Law” he calls it (he is refering to the Talmud the oral laws and traditions of the Jews) in which they had falsly interpreted the scripture as condoning Polytheism! WJ Hi WJ: And so, they were men and not gods?  Is Jesus a man? Quote 5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus Love in Christ, Marty Marty Scriptures calls Jesus both. So should you! WJ Hi WJ: The scripture that I quoted says that there is “One God”, and you won't even accept that fact that Jesus himself has told you that he was going to his God and our God.  What will it take to convince you?  If you stop up your ears so that you won't hear what the scriptures say in order to continue in your doctrine, I guess there is no hope that you will ever come into the knowledge of the simple truth. He is my Lord and I love him and as submitted to God through him, but no, he is not my God. And so, you say that I should call him God because you say so? I am sorry to dissapoint you, but I will only obey the Word of God. Love in Christ, Marty Quote (942767 @ April 05 2010,20:59) What will it take to convince you?  If you stop up your ears so that you won't hear what the scriptures say in order to continue in your doctrine, I guess there is no hope that you will ever come into the knowledge of the simple truth. Marty You have a right to believe I am wrong, but how dare you make judgment on my relationship with the Lord by saying that I have stopped my ears to simple truth just because I do not agree with you and your doctrine. I have studied the scriptures for 36 years and have never been convinced to accept “another Jesus” than the one I first recieved. The scriptures have only strengthened my view of who Jesus really is! You have not proved your case and even if you think you have, can you say that you have perfect truth or that you are the only one here that loves the Lord and hears his voice? Do you think I havn't prayed about these things also? WJ

Hi WJ:

You say the scriptures state that Jesus is both a man and God, and so, you worship him as God?

The scriptures plainly state that there is “One God”, and I have stated that you have stopped up your ears to the statement that Jesus made about going to his God and our God because the scripture has been shared with you several times.

I don't appologize to you for this because that is the way that it appears to me.

You say that I haven't proven my point. It is not what I say or you say that matters but it is what God has said through His Word. He said that Jesus was His Only Begotten Son and His Christ, and so that is who he is.

As if I have stated to you, if I am wrong, correct me by the scriptures. I will not run from correction. If I am wrong, I want to be corrected.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[Proclaimer]

Quote (martian @ April 06 2010,10:19)

Funny how they cling to Thomas calling Christ God as definitive proof of his deity and yet – They make excuses when Jesus himself calls The leaders of Israel Gods. You would think that Christ calling someone God would carry ten times the weight of Thomas. I do not see them adding the leaders of Israel to the Godhead. As my Grandfather used to say, “They are full of Malarky.”

+1

[Proclaimer]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 06 2010,11:10)

Quote (martian @ April 05 2010,18:19) Funny how they cling to Thomas calling Christ God as definitive proof of his deity and yet – They make excuses when Jesus himself calls The leaders of Israel Gods. This is a lie, Jesus doesn't call the leaders of Israel “Gods” with a big “G” but he quotes the Psalmist calling wicked judges and kings “gods” of which he says “they will die like men“ Thats because they were men and not “gods” at all. Jesus was rebuking their hypocrosy for condemning him when he says he was the Son of God, when they believed in “Their Law” he calls it (he is refering to the Talmud the oral laws and traditions of the Jews) in which they had falsly interpreted the scripture as condoning Polytheism! WJ

Psalm 82:6
“I said, 'You are “gods”; you are all sons of the Most High.'

John 10:33-35
33″We are not stoning you for any of these,” replied the Jews, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

34Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods'? 35 If he called them 'gods,' to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken

36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's Son'?

In both these scriptures it seems that some like to conveniently ignore the son/sons part.

1) You are all sons of the Most High
2) Jesus didn't say yes, I am God, instead he said “I am God's son”

This is the truth of the matter.

So again, Jesus is the son of God, and not even the gates of Hell can prevail against this truth.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (942767 @ April 06 2010,13:59)

Hi WJ: You say the scriptures state that Jesus is both a man and God, and so, you worship him as God? The scriptures plainly state that there is “One God”, and I have stated that you have stopped up your ears to the statement that Jesus made about going to his God and our God because the scripture has been shared with you several times. I don't appologize to you for this because that is the way that it appears to me. You say that I haven't proven my point. It is not what I say or you say that matters but it is what God has said through His Word. He said that Jesus was His Only Begotten Son and His Christ, and so that is who he is. As if I have stated to you, if I am wrong, correct me by the scriptures. I will not run from correction. If I am wrong, I want to be corrected. Love in Christ, Marty

Good 1.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (942767 @ April 05 2010,21:59)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 06 2010,13:29) Quote (942767 @ April 05 2010,20:59) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 06 2010,12:40) Quote (942767 @ April 05 2010,20:11) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 06 2010,11:10) Quote (martian @ April 05 2010,18:19) Funny how they cling to Thomas calling Christ God as definitive proof of his deity and yet – They make excuses when Jesus himself calls The leaders of Israel Gods. This is a lie, Jesus doesn't call the leaders of Israel “Gods” with a big “G” but he quotes the Psalmist calling wicked judges and kings “gods” of which he says “they will die like men“ Thats because they were men and not “gods” at all. Jesus was rebuking their hypocrosy for condemning him when he says he was the Son of God, when they believed in “Their Law” he calls it (he is refering to the Talmud the oral laws and traditions of the Jews) in which they had falsly interpreted the scripture as condoning Polytheism! WJ Hi WJ: And so, they were men and not gods?  Is Jesus a man? Quote 5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus Love in Christ, Marty Marty Scriptures calls Jesus both. So should you! WJ Hi WJ: The scripture that I quoted says that there is “One God”, and you won't even accept that fact that Jesus himself has told you that he was going to his God and our God.  What will it take to convince you?  If you stop up your ears so that you won't hear what the scriptures say in order to continue in your doctrine, I guess there is no hope that you will ever come into the knowledge of the simple truth. He is my Lord and I love him and as submitted to God through him, but no, he is not my God. And so, you say that I should call him God because you say so? I am sorry to dissapoint you, but I will only obey the Word of God. Love in Christ, Marty Quote (942767 @ April 05 2010,20:59) What will it take to convince you?  If you stop up your ears so that you won't hear what the scriptures say in order to continue in your doctrine, I guess there is no hope that you will ever come into the knowledge of the simple truth. Marty You have a right to believe I am wrong, but how dare you make judgment on my relationship with the Lord by saying that I have stopped my ears to simple truth just because I do not agree with you and your doctrine. I have studied the scriptures for 36 years and have never been convinced to accept “another Jesus” than the one I first recieved. The scriptures have only strengthened my view of who Jesus really is! You have not proved your case and even if you think you have, can you say that you have perfect truth or that you are the only one here that loves the Lord and hears his voice? Do you think I havn't prayed about these things also? WJ Hi WJ: You say the scriptures state that Jesus is both a man and God, and so, you worship him as God? The scriptures plainly state that there is “One God”, and I have stated that you have stopped up your ears to the statement that Jesus made about going to his God and our God because the scripture has been shared with you several times. I don't appologize to you for this because that is the way that it appears to me. You say that I haven't proven my point.  It is not what I say or you say that matters but it is what God has said through His Word.  He said that Jesus was His Only Begotten Son and His Christ, and so that is who he is. As if I have stated to you, if I am wrong, correct me by the scriptures.  I will not run from correction.  If I am wrong, I want to be corrected. Love in Christ, Marty

Marty

Do the scriptures call Jesus God or not?

Do the Apostles call Jesus God or not?

Do the forefathers call Jesus God or not?

You think that the number one is solitary!

Either you believe that Jesus is “a god” or “The God” or you stick your head in the sand and deny the scriptures.

That is a fact!

WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (t8 @ April 06 2010,03:24)

In both these scriptures it seems that some like to conveniently ignore the son/sons part. 1) You are all sons of the Most High

t8

First of all it is the Psalmist that is speaking and not YHWH!

Secondly, the Psalmist is confessing his error when he says they shall die like fallen men!

But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes. Pss 82:7

Third, YHWH says there were no gods formed, yet you continue to hold onto the fact that there are other gods in scriptures and even worse assume that is what our Lord believed by quoting the Psalmist words.

Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: “BEFORE ME THERE WAS NO GOD FORMED, NEITHER SHALL THERE BE AFTER ME“. Isa 43:10

Paul agrees with this statement…

So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that an idol is nothing at all in the world and “THAT THERE IS NO GOD BU ONE” For even if there “are so‑called gods“, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”),. 1 Cor 8:4, 5

Now as soon as you or anyone else can effectively explain why Jesus is called “The God” with the definite article then you may have a case, otherwise your statement is just smoke in the wind and a pure confession of Polytheism.

Quote (t8 @ April 06 2010,03:24)

2) Jesus didn't say yes, I am God, instead he said “I am God's son”

Once you have a revelation of what it means for one to claim that he is the “Only Son of God” and that God was his personal Father, then you will see why they wanted to stone Jesus for claiming he was the Son of God.

If it was no big deal to say he was a Son of God then why did they become infuriated by his confession? Why did Peter need a special revelation? Why did the demons cry out who he was and Jesus tell them to not speak of it?

The Apostle John knew exactly what Jesus words meant…

For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, “but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God“.

Little wonder he wrote John 1:1, 18 – John 20:28 – 1 John 5:20.

The burden of proof is on you and the unbelievers that Jesus is not God to the Apostles and the Forefathers!

WJ

[JustAskin]

WJ,

“First of all it is the psalmist that is speaking and not YHVH…”

So then what of Psalm 102. Is it not the Psalmist who has [written] a song about David (Or david Himslef wrote it himself) about his worldly agony].

It is then later attributes to Jesus “You, O God, created the heavens and the earth”

David is praising God for his creation – it is David (or concerning David) Praising YHVH in Psalm 102.

The author of Hebrews uses the same Psalm as a parallel to praise Jesus “You, O God, created the heveans and the earth…”

Why is it so easy to attribute something clearly written about another as proclamation concerning Christ BUT then strenuously able to deny something similar in another place.

Eggs are Eggs – Eggs are not chickens!

“Making Himself equal to God”… oh no – you not still going around that one – no wonder you been here for years – can't find your way out.

Jesus told them that they were wrong what they were thinking – THEY WERE WRONG – WJ, that's the point – Jesus told them so – It seems lack of trinity Proof is what is driving trinitarians to pluck at feathers for the truth and miss the meat of the truth of the scriptures.

Like driving on a Ring Road: “Man, this road is long – and so many places look the same”

What was that story I told about two old guys in a company…

Ring o' ring o' Roses
Where you go noone knowses
“To Perdition”, “to Perdition!”
All call down

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (JustAskin @ April 06 2010,16:33)

Making Himself equal to God”… oh no – you not still going around that one – no wonder you been here for years – can't find your way out.

JA

You deny the Apostle Johns very own words…

For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, “but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God“.

These are Johns words and not the Jews! John also wrote John 1:1c.

So oh no, it is you that are sticking your head in the sand, when you should, like doubting Thomas, proclaim “My Lord and My God”. John 20:28

WJ

[JustAskin]

Man,

If they believed that Jesus was God, Why did they try to stone Him? Stone God? Does that make sense?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (JustAskin @ April 06 2010,17:21)

Man, If they believed that Jesus was God, Why did they try to stone Him? Stone God? Does that make sense?

JA

It doesn't make sense that they would stone him for claiming to be the Son of God if that was a common term.

They didn't believe he was equal to God but believed that was his claim and according to Johns word it was Jesus claim!

For a Jew to claim that God was his “Own personal Father” was to claim that he was equal to or in fact is God, and that infuriated them in more than one place they wanted to stone him!

WJ

[terraricca]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 07 2010,02:42)

Quote (942767 @ April 05 2010,21:59) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 06 2010,13:29) Quote (942767 @ April 05 2010,20:59) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 06 2010,12:40) Quote (942767 @ April 05 2010,20:11) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 06 2010,11:10) Quote (martian @ April 05 2010,18:19) Funny how they cling to Thomas calling Christ God as definitive proof of his deity and yet – They make excuses when Jesus himself calls The leaders of Israel Gods. This is a lie, Jesus doesn't call the leaders of Israel “Gods” with a big “G” but he quotes the Psalmist calling wicked judges and kings “gods” of which he says “they will die like men“ Thats because they were men and not “gods” at all. Jesus was rebuking their hypocrosy for condemning him when he says he was the Son of God, when they believed in “Their Law” he calls it (he is refering to the Talmud the oral laws and traditions of the Jews) in which they had falsly interpreted the scripture as condoning Polytheism! WJ Hi WJ: And so, they were men and not gods?  Is Jesus a man? Quote 5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus Love in Christ, Marty Marty Scriptures calls Jesus both. So should you! WJ Hi WJ: The scripture that I quoted says that there is “One God”, and you won't even accept that fact that Jesus himself has told you that he was going to his God and our God.  What will it take to convince you?  If you stop up your ears so that you won't hear what the scriptures say in order to continue in your doctrine, I guess there is no hope that you will ever come into the knowledge of the simple truth. He is my Lord and I love him and as submitted to God through him, but no, he is not my God. And so, you say that I should call him God because you say so? I am sorry to dissapoint you, but I will only obey the Word of God. Love in Christ, Marty Quote (942767 @ April 05 2010,20:59) What will it take to convince you?  If you stop up your ears so that you won't hear what the scriptures say in order to continue in your doctrine, I guess there is no hope that you will ever come into the knowledge of the simple truth. Marty You have a right to believe I am wrong, but how dare you make judgment on my relationship with the Lord by saying that I have stopped my ears to simple truth just because I do not agree with you and your doctrine. I have studied the scriptures for 36 years and have never been convinced to accept “another Jesus” than the one I first recieved. The scriptures have only strengthened my view of who Jesus really is! You have not proved your case and even if you think you have, can you say that you have perfect truth or that you are the only one here that loves the Lord and hears his voice? Do you think I havn't prayed about these things also? WJ Hi WJ: You say the scriptures state that Jesus is both a man and God, and so, you worship him as God? The scriptures plainly state that there is “One God”, and I have stated that you have stopped up your ears to the statement that Jesus made about going to his God and our God because the scripture has been shared with you several times. I don't appologize to you for this because that is the way that it appears to me. You say that I haven't proven my point.  It is not what I say or you say that matters but it is what God has said through His Word.  He said that Jesus was His Only Begotten Son and His Christ, and so that is who he is. As if I have stated to you, if I am wrong, correct me by the scriptures.  I will not run from correction.  If I am wrong, I want to be corrected. Love in Christ, Marty Marty Do the scriptures call Jesus God or not? Do the Apostles call Jesus God or not? Do the forefathers call Jesus God or not? You think that the number one is solitary! Either you believe that Jesus is “a god” or “The God” or you stick your head in the sand and deny the scriptures. That is a fact! WJ

WJ

Christ is a God like in ;Ex 7:1 Then the LORD said to Moses, “See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron will be your prophet.

and we know Moses was the forth shadow of Christ.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (terraricca @ April 06 2010,17:53)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 07 2010,02:42) Quote (942767 @ April 05 2010,21:59) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 06 2010,13:29) Quote (942767 @ April 05 2010,20:59) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 06 2010,12:40) Quote (942767 @ April 05 2010,20:11) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 06 2010,11:10) Quote (martian @ April 05 2010,18:19) Funny how they cling to Thomas calling Christ God as definitive proof of his deity and yet – They make excuses when Jesus himself calls The leaders of Israel Gods. This is a lie, Jesus doesn't call the leaders of Israel “Gods” with a big “G” but he quotes the Psalmist calling wicked judges and kings “gods” of which he says “they will die like men“ Thats because they were men and not “gods” at all. Jesus was rebuking their hypocrosy for condemning him when he says he was the Son of God, when they believed in “Their Law” he calls it (he is refering to the Talmud the oral laws and traditions of the Jews) in which they had falsly interpreted the scripture as condoning Polytheism! WJ Hi WJ: And so, they were men and not gods?  Is Jesus a man? Quote 5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus Love in Christ, Marty Marty Scriptures calls Jesus both. So should you! WJ Hi WJ: The scripture that I quoted says that there is “One God”, and you won't even accept that fact that Jesus himself has told you that he was going to his God and our God.  What will it take to convince you?  If you stop up your ears so that you won't hear what the scriptures say in order to continue in your doctrine, I guess there is no hope that you will ever come into the knowledge of the simple truth. He is my Lord and I love him and as submitted to God through him, but no, he is not my God. And so, you say that I should call him God because you say so? I am sorry to dissapoint you, but I will only obey the Word of God. Love in Christ, Marty Quote (942767 @ April 05 2010,20:59) What will it take to convince you?  If you stop up your ears so that you won't hear what the scriptures say in order to continue in your doctrine, I guess there is no hope that you will ever come into the knowledge of the simple truth. Marty You have a right to believe I am wrong, but how dare you make judgment on my relationship with the Lord by saying that I have stopped my ears to simple truth just because I do not agree with you and your doctrine. I have studied the scriptures for 36 years and have never been convinced to accept “another Jesus” than the one I first recieved. The scriptures have only strengthened my view of who Jesus really is! You have not proved your case and even if you think you have, can you say that you have perfect truth or that you are the only one here that loves the Lord and hears his voice? Do you think I havn't prayed about these things also? WJ Hi WJ: You say the scriptures state that Jesus is both a man and God, and so, you worship him as God? The scriptures plainly state that there is “One God”, and I have stated that you have stopped up your ears to the statement that Jesus made about going to his God and our God because the scripture has been shared with you several times. I don't appologize to you for this because that is the way that it appears to me. You say that I haven't proven my point.  It is not what I say or you say that matters but it is what God has said through His Word.  He said that Jesus was His Only Begotten Son and His Christ, and so that is who he is. As if I have stated to you, if I am wrong, correct me by the scriptures.  I will not run from correction.  If I am wrong, I want to be corrected. Love in Christ, Marty Marty Do the scriptures call Jesus God or not? Do the Apostles call Jesus God or not? Do the forefathers call Jesus God or not? You think that the number one is solitary! Either you believe that Jesus is “a god” or “The God” or you stick your head in the sand and deny the scriptures. That is a fact! WJ WJ Christ is a God like in ;Ex 7:1 Then the LORD said to Moses, “See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron will be your prophet. and we know Moses was the forth shadow of Christ.

T

That would be pure Polytheisim!

Moses was only “a god” to Pharoah who was a Polytheist and worshipped many gods.

Moses was not a god in any sense to YHWH or to the children of Israel.

Jesus is called “The God” and claimed to be “their” God by the Apostles and the Forefathers!

WJ

[JustAskin]

WJ,

But what if he WAS God (He wasn't). They would have stoned God Himself. Stoned their One God, and Satan would acquire the High Seat.

WJ, they would have Stoned God Almighty…

In fact, they did worse than that: they killed God Almighty in the most horrible way – hanging from a tree, according to their tradition!

Do you know, realise, what your doctrine tells you: God Almighty was killed by his own prodegy (mankind beware o' them Robots you creating!)

So, then, WJ, when God was dead why didn't Satan seize the throne, who was to stop him?

[JustAskin]

WJ,

So when 'we' become Sons of God that means 'we' will also be God Almighty, too.

Weh-hey…!

Oh, but when 'we' are all God Almighty, who will 'we' be God Almighty of? Who will there be to worship 'us'?

[terraricca]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 07 2010,09:57)

Quote (terraricca @ April 06 2010,17:53) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 07 2010,02:42) Quote (942767 @ April 05 2010,21:59) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 06 2010,13:29) Quote (942767 @ April 05 2010,20:59) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 06 2010,12:40) Quote (942767 @ April 05 2010,20:11) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 06 2010,11:10) Quote (martian @ April 05 2010,18:19) Funny how they cling to Thomas calling Christ God as definitive proof of his deity and yet – They make excuses when Jesus himself calls The leaders of Israel Gods. This is a lie, Jesus doesn't call the leaders of Israel “Gods” with a big “G” but he quotes the Psalmist calling wicked judges and kings “gods” of which he says “they will die like men“ Thats because they were men and not “gods” at all. Jesus was rebuking their hypocrosy for condemning him when he says he was the Son of God, when they believed in “Their Law” he calls it (he is refering to the Talmud the oral laws and traditions of the Jews) in which they had falsly interpreted the scripture as condoning Polytheism! WJ Hi WJ: And so, they were men and not gods?  Is Jesus a man? Quote 5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus Love in Christ, Marty Marty Scriptures calls Jesus both. So should you! WJ Hi WJ: The scripture that I quoted says that there is “One God”, and you won't even accept that fact that Jesus himself has told you that he was going to his God and our God.  What will it take to convince you?  If you stop up your ears so that you won't hear what the scriptures say in order to continue in your doctrine, I guess there is no hope that you will ever come into the knowledge of the simple truth. He is my Lord and I love him and as submitted to God through him, but no, he is not my God. And so, you say that I should call him God because you say so? I am sorry to dissapoint you, but I will only obey the Word of God. Love in Christ, Marty Quote (942767 @ April 05 2010,20:59) What will it take to convince you?  If you stop up your ears so that you won't hear what the scriptures say in order to continue in your doctrine, I guess there is no hope that you will ever come into the knowledge of the simple truth. Marty You have a right to believe I am wrong, but how dare you make judgment on my relationship with the Lord by saying that I have stopped my ears to simple truth just because I do not agree with you and your doctrine. I have studied the scriptures for 36 years and have never been convinced to accept “another Jesus” than the one I first recieved. The scriptures have only strengthened my view of who Jesus really is! You have not proved your case and even if you think you have, can you say that you have perfect truth or that you are the only one here that loves the Lord and hears his voice? Do you think I havn't prayed about these things also? WJ Hi WJ: You say the scriptures state that Jesus is both a man and God, and so, you worship him as God? The scriptures plainly state that there is “One God”, and I have stated that you have stopped up your ears to the statement that Jesus made about going to his God and our God because the scripture has been shared with you several times. I don't appologize to you for this because that is the way that it appears to me. You say that I haven't proven my point.  It is not what I say or you say that matters but it is what God has said through His Word.  He said that Jesus was His Only Begotten Son and His Christ, and so that is who he is. As if I have stated to you, if I am wrong, correct me by the scriptures.  I will not run from correction.  If I am wrong, I want to be corrected. Love in Christ, Marty Marty Do the scriptures call Jesus God or not? Do the Apostles call Jesus God or not? Do the forefathers call Jesus God or not? You think that the number one is solitary! Either you believe that Jesus is “a god” or “The God” or you stick your head in the sand and deny the scriptures. That is a fact! WJ WJ Christ is a God like in ;Ex 7:1 Then the LORD said to Moses, “See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron will be your prophet. and we know Moses was the forth shadow of Christ. T That would be pure Polytheisim! Moses was only “a god” to Pharoah who was a Polytheist and worshipped many gods. Moses was not a god in any sense to YHWH or to the children of Israel. Jesus is called “The God” and claimed to be “their” God by the Apostles and the Forefathers! WJ

WJ

it still is the same thing because Christ is only playing the role of administrator to his father,because at the end of it all he turn things over to his father so he will be submitted to the father like all is all in God.
1Co 15:27 Scripture says that God “has put everything under his control. It says that “everything” has been put under him. But it is clear that this does not include God himself,
who puts everything under Christ.

1Co 15:28 When he has done that, the Son also will be under God’s rule. God puts everything under the Son. In that way, God will be all in all.

so what ever you do or say this will never change,this is why Christ is not God of any kind but plays a role has God like moses did ,

and you right wen you say moses was only god to his brother,

and for that time only just as Jesus is for that time to fulfill the will of his God.

In reality Christ as been god representative for a long time,just like Moses was to his brother,Jesus was to his brothers (apostles) so good image.

[942767]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 07 2010,02:42)

Quote (942767 @ April 05 2010,21:59) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 06 2010,13:29) Quote (942767 @ April 05 2010,20:59) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 06 2010,12:40) Quote (942767 @ April 05 2010,20:11) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 06 2010,11:10) Quote (martian @ April 05 2010,18:19) Funny how they cling to Thomas calling Christ God as definitive proof of his deity and yet – They make excuses when Jesus himself calls The leaders of Israel Gods. This is a lie, Jesus doesn't call the leaders of Israel “Gods” with a big “G” but he quotes the Psalmist calling wicked judges and kings “gods” of which he says “they will die like men“ Thats because they were men and not “gods” at all. Jesus was rebuking their hypocrosy for condemning him when he says he was the Son of God, when they believed in “Their Law” he calls it (he is refering to the Talmud the oral laws and traditions of the Jews) in which they had falsly interpreted the scripture as condoning Polytheism! WJ Hi WJ: And so, they were men and not gods?  Is Jesus a man? Quote 5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus Love in Christ, Marty Marty Scriptures calls Jesus both. So should you! WJ Hi WJ: The scripture that I quoted says that there is “One God”, and you won't even accept that fact that Jesus himself has told you that he was going to his God and our God.  What will it take to convince you?  If you stop up your ears so that you won't hear what the scriptures say in order to continue in your doctrine, I guess there is no hope that you will ever come into the knowledge of the simple truth. He is my Lord and I love him and as submitted to God through him, but no, he is not my God. And so, you say that I should call him God because you say so? I am sorry to dissapoint you, but I will only obey the Word of God. Love in Christ, Marty Quote (942767 @ April 05 2010,20:59) What will it take to convince you?  If you stop up your ears so that you won't hear what the scriptures say in order to continue in your doctrine, I guess there is no hope that you will ever come into the knowledge of the simple truth. Marty You have a right to believe I am wrong, but how dare you make judgment on my relationship with the Lord by saying that I have stopped my ears to simple truth just because I do not agree with you and your doctrine. I have studied the scriptures for 36 years and have never been convinced to accept “another Jesus” than the one I first recieved. The scriptures have only strengthened my view of who Jesus really is! You have not proved your case and even if you think you have, can you say that you have perfect truth or that you are the only one here that loves the Lord and hears his voice? Do you think I havn't prayed about these things also? WJ Hi WJ: You say the scriptures state that Jesus is both a man and God, and so, you worship him as God? The scriptures plainly state that there is “One God”, and I have stated that you have stopped up your ears to the statement that Jesus made about going to his God and our God because the scripture has been shared with you several times. I don't appologize to you for this because that is the way that it appears to me. You say that I haven't proven my point.  It is not what I say or you say that matters but it is what God has said through His Word.  He said that Jesus was His Only Begotten Son and His Christ, and so that is who he is. As if I have stated to you, if I am wrong, correct me by the scriptures.  I will not run from correction.  If I am wrong, I want to be corrected. Love in Christ, Marty Marty Do the scriptures call Jesus God or not? Do the Apostles call Jesus God or not? Do the forefathers call Jesus God or not? You think that the number one is solitary! Either you believe that Jesus is “a god” or “The God” or you stick your head in the sand and deny the scriptures. That is a fact! WJ

Hi WJ:

The scriptures state that God made man in His own image. Jesus is the last Adam, and is “the express image of God's person”.

In John 14 he said, “he who hath seen me hath seen the Father”, and explained that it was the Father doing the works through him.

Jesus is not the source. It was God dwelling within him by His Spirit that he was obeying.

I don't know how to make this any more simple for you.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[terraricca]

hi Marty

well said if you got a ear that is,

[Lightenup]

Quote (Lightenup @ April 03 2010,11:41)

Quote (t8 @ April 03 2010,05:05) Quote (Lightenup @ April 02 2010,06:14) Hi t8, Touche' on your post with one exception…God can have a son who is as much his nature as God Himself.  We see it in the created world ALL the time.  One nature begets one of the same nature.  Thus if they both have the same nature, they are both deity albeit one is older than the other.  The Son of God will never have the unique quality of always existing and be the source of all things good but that doesn't mean that He isn't God, as the Son.  He isn't God as the Father, He is God as the Son of God would be. I agree Lightenup, that kind reproduces after itself and even God makes in his image. I believe there is a difference between having divine nature and being God though in the same sense that there is also one Devil, but there are many devils. That is to say, that there is one identified as (the) God, who is the Father, and there is one Devil who is identified as Satan/Beelzebub. There are many who are called theos, even men, just as there are many who are devils. The difference is identity and nature/quality. Even Judas was called a devil because in quality he was like the Devil. Another example is Adam who is identified as the original man, but “adam” (no article), actually means mankind. Same thing. There is one Adam, but many adams. Before others start accusing me of Polytheism, (as what Trinitarians tend to do when I state this), please note that I am advocating that there is one who is identified as the true God the Father, and that we can share in his divine nature and be conformed into the image of. Those who think this is Polytheism lack understanding. To have many God's is to have more than one true God. I think Trinitarianism is guilty of this. To believe that there is one God the Father is to believe in the one true God and in doing so respects the first commandment. Hi t8, You said: Quote I believe there is a difference between having divine nature and being God though in the same sense that there is also one Devil, but there are many devils. That is to say, that there is one identified as (the) God, who is the Father, and there is one Devil who is identified as Satan/Beelzebub. There are many who are called theos, even men, just as there are many who are devils. I understand what you are saying but I would change your first sentence to read: “I believe there is a difference between having divine nature and having divine nature combined with always existing and being the source of all that is good.”  I think that is an important difference between the Father and the Son.  The Father always existed and is the source of all things good.  As I understand it, the Son did not always exist and was not the source of all things good even though all things were created by Him…those things that were created by Him originally came from the Father. It is true that others are called theos however it is clear that they are not by original nature, theos, but they are acting by authority over others like God does. The Son of God does not fit into the category of not having the original nature of theos so I don't think your argument is valid.  He is in no way equal to those in that category.  Angels have an angelic nature and men have a human nature.  The Son of God has a deity nature which automatically makes Him of the same kind as His Father, deity. There is one identified as the true God…the Father, and one identified as the only Son of God…Jesus.  In the OT, the Father and the Son were called “the Lord God with the outstretched Arm” and were together worshiped and thought of as one God and that is the way the Father portrayed the one God that was spoken about in the first commandment.  The Jews thought that God was one being but we know now, after the Father “bared His Arm,” that His Arm was indeed a separate being all along…His only Son. Isaiah saw that truth and John also confirms this. You say that there is one Adam, but many adams.  True and they all have the nature of a human. There is one true God, but two gods that have the nature of a god and those two gods make up one Godhead together with the Holy Spirit (inner person) of the one true God.  One is greater than the other but the other is greater than everything else.  So, see how we have two that are greater than everything and only two with the original nature as deity?  Neither one of them could be equal to anything that might be “called” deity who don't actually have a deity nature as their original nature. I realize that believers will be partakers of the divine nature but the Son of God always had it and that is a huge difference. Believer's with a human nature will “partake” of the divine nature in the future.  The Son of God with a deity nature “partook” of the human nature but remained the Son of God at the same time.  To make that work, He gave (for a time) up what He needed to give up, i.e. his supernatural ability, memories and His body form, for example. Jesus has always been the only God alongside the True God.

Hi t8,
Maybe you didn't see this post, so I bumped it for you.

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