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Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 24 2010,12:23) WJ……….What Scripture specifically Say's Jesus (WAS) and (IS) the WORD of LIFE, WE all KNOW He Spoke the (FATHERS) WORDS TO US. But where does it (SPECIFICALLY) say THE words he spoke were (HIS) WORDS OF LIFE? Trying to force the text in Jhon 1:1 to make it come out the way is against what Jesus Himself Said, THE WORD I AM TELLING YOU ARE NOT MY WORD, BUT THE WORDS OF HIM WHO SENT ME is what He said. You are disagreeing with Jesus himself right? If not Please explain this. peace and love to you and yours…………………gene
Gene1 John 1:1-3 John calls him the “Word of life” the Eternal Life that was with the Father. That is what his hands touched, and seen with his own eyes.
Blessings WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 25 2010,04:26) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 24 2010,12:23) WJ……….What Scripture specifically Say's Jesus (WAS) and (IS) the WORD of LIFE, WE all KNOW He Spoke the (FATHERS) WORDS TO US. But where does it (SPECIFICALLY) say THE words he spoke were (HIS) WORDS OF LIFE? Trying to force the text in Jhon 1:1 to make it come out the way is against what Jesus Himself Said, THE WORD I AM TELLING YOU ARE NOT MY WORD, BUT THE WORDS OF HIM WHO SENT ME is what He said. You are disagreeing with Jesus himself right? If not Please explain this. peace and love to you and yours…………………gene
Gene1 John 1:1-3 John calls him the “Word of life” the Eternal Life that was with the Father. That is what his hands touched, and seen with his own eyes.
Blessings WJ
WJJn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Jn 1:2 He was with God in the beginning.
Jn 1:3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
Jn 1:4 In him was life, and that life was the light of men.
Jn 1:5 The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.Quote (JustAskin @ Mar. 23 2010,18:33) TT, Ok, I admit that I missed or forgot your 'agreeing' bit.
I don't understand what you and WJ mean by saying “What God was the Word was”? Just seem like playing with words.
God speaks a word, it is HIS Word, of course it is HIM. What He speaks is What He IS – He IS [as] His Word.
I think you are both so used to disagreeing that you must find something to disagree with with what others have posted even if the poster is saying the same as what you are (Don't sling it back to me – I just missed that you agreed in an earlier post – I mainly write from my Mobile and it's only got a tiny window (that's why you often see so many grammatical/spelling mistakes) reviewing post that is not in the immediate window is off limits).
Ok, so we agree that Jesus was begotten after coming to earth and that He was Pre-Existent – So the Topic here is a given a big 'Tick' for “Yes, He was” from you WJ and Me and some others.
However, since WJ has snuck in an additional aspect, perhaps you or he (or both) can complete a response to the questions that I outlined in my previous post regarding Micah 5:2.
JAIt is simple.
John 1:1 says “The Word” was God. We know who the Word is that was with God based on 1 John 1:1-3 – Rev 19:13 – John 1:14.
The litteral meaning is “God was the Word” not God was a spoken word!
Therefore if the Word was God then the Word is everything that God is and God is eternal.
Even if you believe that John 1:1c is the “spoken word of God”, is there ever a time that God did not have a spoken word?
So either way the “Word” is from everlasting to everlasting.
Micah 5:2 – Most older versions have it like the KJV, the NIV footnotes read…
* Or from days of eternity
Since the “Word” is Eternal then the right rendering of the verse would be “from everlasting”.
Quote (JustAskin @ Mar. 23 2010,18:33) I think you are both so used to disagreeing that you must find something to disagree with with what others have posted even if the poster is saying the same as what you are
What we were “slinging back to you” is the concept that Jesus was created!Blessings WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 25 2010,05:07) Quote (JustAskin @ Mar. 23 2010,18:33) TT, Ok, I admit that I missed or forgot your 'agreeing' bit.
I don't understand what you and WJ mean by saying “What God was the Word was”? Just seem like playing with words.
God speaks a word, it is HIS Word, of course it is HIM. What He speaks is What He IS – He IS [as] His Word.
I think you are both so used to disagreeing that you must find something to disagree with with what others have posted even if the poster is saying the same as what you are (Don't sling it back to me – I just missed that you agreed in an earlier post – I mainly write from my Mobile and it's only got a tiny window (that's why you often see so many grammatical/spelling mistakes) reviewing post that is not in the immediate window is off limits).
Ok, so we agree that Jesus was begotten after coming to earth and that He was Pre-Existent – So the Topic here is a given a big 'Tick' for “Yes, He was” from you WJ and Me and some others.
However, since WJ has snuck in an additional aspect, perhaps you or he (or both) can complete a response to the questions that I outlined in my previous post regarding Micah 5:2.
JAIt is simple.
John 1:1 says “The Word” was God. We know who the Word is that was with God based on 1 John 1:1-3 – Rev 19:13 – John 1:14.
The litteral meaning is “God was the Word” not God was a spoken word!
Therefore if the Word was God then the Word is everything that God is and God is eternal.
Even if you believe that John 1:1c is the “spoken word of God”, is there ever a time that God did not have a spoken word?
So either way the “Word” is from everlasting to everlasting.
Micah 5:2 – Most older versions have it like the KJV, the NIV footnotes read…
* Or from days of eternity
Since the “Word” is Eternal then the right rendering of the verse would be “from everlasting”.
Quote (JustAskin @ Mar. 23 2010,18:33) I think you are both so used to disagreeing that you must find something to disagree with with what others have posted even if the poster is saying the same as what you are
What we were “slinging back to you” is the concept that Jesus was created!Blessings WJ
WJsinse we know Jesus is the Word in Jn 1;1
here are words out of Jesus mouth;Mt 4:10 Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only
Jn 1:17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
Jn 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father’s side, has made him knownJn 1:34 I have seen and I testify that this is the Son of God.”
Jn 3:19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.
Jn 3:20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.
Jn 3:21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God.”Jn 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son
Jn 4:24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.”
Rev 19:5 Then a voice came from the throne, saying:
“Praise our God,
all you his servants,
you who fear him,
both small and great!”Rev 19:9 Then the angel said to me, “Write: ‘Blessed are those who are invited to the wedding supper of the Lamb!’ ” And he added, “These are the true words of God.”
Rev 19:10 At this I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “Do not do it! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecythe truth will make you free from the pagan believes like the trinity.
Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 24 2010,13:32) the truth will make you free from the pagan believes like the trinity.
TI am already free my friend! None of your scripture quotes disprove the Trinity!
Jesus is my Great God and Saviour and lives in me, 2 Cor 13:5 – Isa 9:6 – John 1:1 – John 20:28 – Titus 2:13 – Matt 28:9
Is their something unscriptural about my confession?
Blessings WJ
terraricca said to WJ:
Quote the truth will make you free from the pagan believes like the trinity. Jesus said that “the Son shall make you free.” He said that “the truth shall make you free.” He said, “I am the truth.”
Looks like Jesus is God to me!
thinker
Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 24 2010,14:57) TT and WJ and LOgosl with all respect given to all of you i have to say ,your explanation on the same things over and over based on 3or 4 verses in scriptures ,when hundred of scriptures says otherwise ,and clear understanding make it also clear ,
it is true you are not defending the truth of the word of God,but create a challenge within the scriptures it selves, the purpose is for what ??
Three or four scriptures? You lie.You have presented no scripture which says that Jesus is not God. Show a scripture which says, “Jesus is not God.”
thinker
thinker
1 Corinth. 8:5-6 For if there are called God's, whether in heaven or on earth,…
verse 6 but for us there is only ONE GOD THE FATHER, of whom are all things, and we for Him, and one lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.Ephesians 4:6 you know that one well, but you think that only applied when Jesus was on earth. I don't believe that. There is no Scripture that states that.
Romans 15:5 Now may the God of patience and comfort grand you to be like minded toward one another, according to Christ.
verse 6 that you may with one mind and one mouth, glorify THE GOD AND FATHER of our lord Jesus Christ.1 Timothy 2:5 FOR THERE IS ONE GOD, and one Mediator between God and men, the Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Corinth. 11:3 But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of Christ is God.
One more thing, which I said before. Since the Holy Spirit to you is a person, then He must be Jesus Father? But we know that is not true. And I hope you are not going to say that I said that the Holy Spirit is Jesus Father…..cause that is not so….
There is no trinity, a man made doctrine and not of God. Quintus Septimus Florns Teertullians doctrine.
Math. 15:9
IreneQuote (JustAskin @ Mar. 25 2010,02:20) Hi Kar, So, now you have a test of your faith.
You accepted that which I wrote but now Logic has written something not unlike a contrary version.
Which are you going to accept and which reject?
Hi Ja, only a test of faith for a brief moment! Even though WJ is trinitarian which im not, He had the verses which I would have used if id had the time to put them to show Jesus the Word is so clearly shown to have been with the Father God from before the earth was created!Logoslogic cant you see that?
JustAskin! Let me give you some good Scriptures that Jesus is saying. I will not write them out. It is you who has to prove all things, I already did.
John 1:15
John 3:17
John 6:38-40
John 8:58
John 17:5
Col. 1:15-17
Rev. 3:14
Rev. 19:13 proves that the Word was Jesus Christ. He is called KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.
good luck, IreneKar,
Well done.
The theme for this topic is 'PreExistence'.
The general consensus is that 'Jesus' was, indeed, PreExistent.This is not a position or idea unique to Trinitarians but to all God Fearing Christians.
What distinguishes one from the other is those that claim that 'Jesus' is God himself, the Amighty, because 'God', to them, God is unity of Three Persons, as developed by the leader of the 'Abomination' that was the Roman Empire (It is said that for those in the RCC, the Pope is God's representative on earth, and according to the beliefs of Trinitarians as given by TT and WJ, he, then is God, himself)
Constantly, throughout the Scriptures, we are told to 'Fear God'.
Are we ever instructed to 'Fear Jesus'?
Acts 10:38 '…God anointed Jesus of Nazareth [a Divine creature, emptied of Divinity and sent to earth by God to be conceived in the womb by the Holy Spirit and born of a woman]' with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good…, for God was with Him.'
How is Jesus then God Himself, if God was WITH Him.
Similarly, how is 'The Word' God Himself, if 'The Word' was WITH God?
So then anyone who is 'WITH God' or God is with them, means that they are God, themselves? …interesting!
Personifying an attribute of God into another entity doesn't make that entity God Himself.
That entity is a representation, an image of God. When man killed Jesus, did they then killed God Himself?
When I asked this of WJ and TT, they could not answer.
These same arguments have been posted time and again. Those that are staunch Trinitarians will never change because it would be against their will to do so.
The “word” is the blueprint of the Temple and christ is the actual building. The blueprint was with God and is God in the sense that it is a direct representation of the character of God. Even as the plan of God reflects who God is. This is a common and very well documented form of Hebrew expressionism. All through the
Hebrew language God is named by virtue of his function and relationship to humanity. All of his names reflect that way of description. God expressed himself in the burning bush and Mosses did not differentiate between the expression and the being of God himself. The pillar of fire the pillar of cloud the Glory the angel of Yahweh all were expressions of God. Even as both the expressions of Gods purposes and the fulfillment of those purposes are God. The “word” is the expression of God's purpose for a completed and perfected humanity. The fulfillment of that plan/purpose if Christ. Does that make Christ literally God? NO!. No more then the burning bush is or the angel of Yahweh is literally God.
Quote (martian @ Mar. 24 2010,19:10) These same arguments have been posted time and again. Those that are staunch Trinitarians will never change because it would be against their will to do so.
Circular!Blessings WJ
Quote (martian @ Mar. 24 2010,20:14) Some minds are like concrete, thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
MartianLooking in a mirror aren't you?
WJ
All these mad anti-Trinitarians can't do anythig but spit out poisness accusations. Since they cannot refute the truth they just resort to personal attacks!
Reminds me of the treatment they gave Jesus when they stopped their ears from hearing the truth because they could not refute his words.
It also reminds me of little boys and girls on the school yard poking and making fun of others, like children do!
Things havn't changed much. Whats amazing is they actually believe “They have all truth” about the nature of an infinite God! How pitiful!
WJ
Quote (JustAskin @ Mar. 24 2010,19:04) How is Jesus then God Himself, if God was WITH Him.
This is a typical narrow minded view of the nature of God and the use of the word “Theos”, God.The word “Theos” does not identify who God is no more than the word “Human” identifys anyone.
Your logic is flawed because scriptures use the word “God” for both the Father and Jesus. Just like two humans can be with each other and be “One flesh”.
John was a Monotheist and said “the Word was with God and the Word was God”.
Jesus said he and his Father are “One”. Not like we are one with “THEM”.
The problem with anti-Trinitarians has always been the same.
They pick and choose certain scriptures that fits their doctrine rather than accepting all of them which are the whole council of God!
Even if you do not believe in the oneness of the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit. You must believe in the three because the scriptures speak of the three.
So you guys have your own trinity! Matt 28:19
Or maybe you do not believe the scriptures speak of the three!
Here is more info on John 1:1 if you are interested in learning… Click here
Blessings WJ
Quote (Elizabeth @ Mar. 25 2010,09:39) JustAskin! Let me give you some good Scriptures that Jesus is saying. I will not write them out. It is you who has to prove all things, I already did.
John 1:15
John 3:17
John 6:38-40
John 8:58
John 17:5
Col. 1:15-17
Rev. 3:14
Rev. 19:13 proves that the Word was Jesus Christ. He is called KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.
good luck, Irene
Hi Irene,OK; I will PROVE “Bible Truth” to ALL!
The systems of religion and traditions of men communicate except
distortions of truth, confusion of mind, and distractions of spirit.No mention of “The Word” in this verse.
John 1:15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.No mention of “The Word” in this verse.
John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.No mention of “The Word” in these verses.
John 6:38-40For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing,
but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which
seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.No mention of “The Word” in this verse.
John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.No mention of “The Word” in this verse.
John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.No mention of “The Word” in these verses.
Col. 1:15-17 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.No mention of “The Word” in this verse.
Rev. 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;This verse is speaking of the “HolySpirit”: “The Word”!
Rev. 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Elizabeth @ Mar. 25 2010,09:39) JustAskin! Let me give you some good Scriptures that Jesus is saying. I will not write them out. It is you who has to prove all things, I already did.
John 1:15
John 3:17
John 6:38-40
John 8:58
John 17:5
Col. 1:15-17
Rev. 3:14
Rev. 19:13 proves that the Word was Jesus Christ. He is called KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.
good luck, Irene
Hi Irene,All these verses PROVE the “HolySpirit” is “The Word”!
Psalm 33:6
Zech.4:6
Zech.12:1Matt.13:19
Mark 4:14
Mark13:11
Mark 13:19
Luke 3:2
Luke 8:11
John 12:49
John 14:24
John 17:6-8
John 17:14
Acts 4:31
Acts 10:36-38
Acts 10:44
Acts 11:15-16
Acts 13:4-5
Acts 13:47-49
Acts 17:11
Acts 20:32
Romans 9:5-6
Romans 10:17
1Cor. 12:8-9
1Cor. 14:36
2Cor. 5:19
2Cor. 6:6-7
Gal.6:6
Eph. 1:12-13
Eph. 5:26
Eph. 6:17
Phillip.2:16
1Tm.5:17-18
2Tm.2:11-15
2Tm.4:2
Hebrews 1:1-2
Hebrews 2:2-3
Hebrews 4:2-6
Hebrews 4:8-12
Hebrews 5:13-14
Hebrews 7:28
Hebrews 11:3
Hebrews 12:19
James 1:18
1Peter 1:21-23
1Peter 2:6-8
1John 2:7-10
Rev.1:2
Rev.1:9
Rev.19:11-16
Rev.20:4Witnessing to the world in behalf of… (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (JustAskin @ Mar. 25 2010,13:04) Kar, Well done.
The theme for this topic is 'PreExistence'.
The general consensus is that 'Jesus' was, indeed, PreExistent.This is not a position or idea unique to Trinitarians but to all God Fearing Christians.
What distinguishes one from the other is those that claim that 'Jesus' is God himself, the Amighty, because 'God', to them, God is unity of Three Persons, as developed by the leader of the 'Abomination' that was the Roman Empire (It is said that for those in the RCC, the Pope is God's representative on earth, and according to the beliefs of Trinitarians as given by TT and WJ, he, then is God, himself)
Constantly, throughout the Scriptures, we are told to 'Fear God'.
Are we ever instructed to 'Fear Jesus'?
Acts 10:38 '…God anointed Jesus of Nazareth [a Divine creature, emptied of Divinity and sent to earth by God to be conceived in the womb by the Holy Spirit and born of a woman]' with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good…, for God was with Him.'
How is Jesus then God Himself, if God was WITH Him.
Similarly, how is 'The Word' God Himself, if 'The Word' was WITH God?
So then anyone who is 'WITH God' or God is with them, means that they are God, themselves? …interesting!
Personifying an attribute of God into another entity doesn't make that entity God Himself.
That entity is a representation, an image of God. When man killed Jesus, did they then killed God Himself?
When I asked this of WJ and TT, they could not answer.
Well said JADid Jesus pray to himself?
Did He tell us to pray “our Jesus who is on earth”?
Or..”Our Father who is in Heaven““I am ascending to my Father and your Father to my God and your God.”
“….a cloud appeared and enveloped them, and a voice came from the cloud: “This is my Son, whom I love. Listen to him!“Demons knew…” demons came out of many people, shouting, “You are the Son of God!”(Luke 4;41
Even The Devil seemed to know He wasnt God!
“If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down.”Peter knew exactly who He was…
“But what about you?” (Jesus) asked. “Who do you say I am?”
Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven.(Matthew 16;15So..Who is Jesus? He is the Son of God!
I could find all the verses there are, but I know its been done over and over so I wont.
On saying that, the only requirement was to accept Jesus.To believe in Him.
Trinitarians do accept Jesus.And believe in Him- Just differently. Both believe in His pre-existance.
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