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Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 15 2009,20:30) Hi CON,
So you have to deny what is written?
Are you saying Yahweh “CANNOT” speak to us through or in a vision? Genesis 15:1 After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I [am] thy shield, [and] thy exceeding great reward.
Numbers 12:6 And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, the LORD will make myself known unto him in a vision, [and] will speak unto him in a dream.
Numbers 24:4 He hath said, which heard the words of 'Elohim, which saw the vision of the Almighty, falling [into a trance], but having his eyes open:
Numbers 24:16 He hath said, which heard the words of 'Elohim, and knew the knowledge of the most High, [which] saw the vision of the Almighty, falling [into a trance], but having his eyes open:
Psalm 89:19 Then thou spakest in vision to thy holy one, and saidst, I have laid help upon [one that is] mighty; I have exalted [one] chosen out of the people.
Seeing a pattern here?
hi to all
if Christ at no pre existance, in that case he could not be the Christ,if Christ was not the very fisrt born of God, he could not be Christ,
if Christ was not all the above is sacrifice would have been useless .
why;Rev 5:1 Then I saw in the right hand of him who sat on the throne a scroll with writing on both sides and sealed with seven seals.
Rev 5:2 And I saw a mighty angel proclaiming in a loud voice, “Who is worthy to break the seals and open the scroll?”
Rev 5:3 But no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth could open the scroll or even look inside it.
Rev 5:4 I wept and wept because no one was found who was worthy to open the scroll or look inside.
Rev 5:5 Then one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep! See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed. He is able to open the scroll and its seven seals.”
Rev 5:6 Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing in the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. He had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth.
Rev 5:7 He came and took the scroll from the right hand of him who sat on the throne.
Rev 5:8 And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp“You are worthy to take the scroll
and to open its seals,
because you were slain,
and with your blood you purchased men for God
from every tribe and language and people and nation.
Rev 5:10 You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God,
and they will reign on the earth.”Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, singing:
“To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb
be praise and honor and glory and power,
for ever and everi wander if it matters that deep in the vocabulary things are to scrutiniced to the core and beon,the scriptures relate that the word was the first and only begotten son ,this is so simple ,it does not take a university degree to understand this,wath it said is that at one point in God was alone,sinse he was alone wathever at to be made would have been the first and made totaly by him,at that point God made the decition to create the in between being, this is wath the scriptures call the WORD because i do believe that God has at that point configure all things to be.
Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 15 2009,21:22) hi to all
if Christ at no pre existance, in that case he could not be the Christ,if Christ was not the very fisrt born of God, he could not be Christ,
if Christ was not all the above is sacrifice would have been useless .
why;Rev 5:1 Then I saw in the right hand of him who sat on the throne a scroll with writing on both sides and sealed with seven seals.
Rev 5:2 And I saw a mighty angel proclaiming in a loud voice, “Who is worthy to break the seals and open the scroll?”
Rev 5:3 But no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth could open the scroll or even look inside it.
Rev 5:4 I wept and wept because no one was found who was worthy to open the scroll or look inside.
Rev 5:5 Then one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep! See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed. He is able to open the scroll and its seven seals.”
Rev 5:6 Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing in the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. He had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth.
Rev 5:7 He came and took the scroll from the right hand of him who sat on the throne.
Rev 5:8 And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp“You are worthy to take the scroll
and to open its seals,
because you were slain,
and with your blood you purchased men for God
from every tribe and language and people and nation.
Rev 5:10 You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God,
and they will reign on the earth.”Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, singing:
“To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb
be praise and honor and glory and power,
for ever and everi wander if it matters that deep in the vocabulary things are to scrutiniced to the core and beon,the scriptures relate that the word was the first and only begotten son ,this is so simple ,it does not take a university degree to understand this,wath it said is that at one point in God was alone,sinse he was alone wathever at to be made would have been the first and made totaly by him,at that point God made the decition to create the in between being, this is wath the scriptures call the WORD because i do believe that God has at that point configure all things to be.
Ofcourse he can be the Messiah, Yahweh gave him pre-eminence over all.I hope you do not think Yahweh cannot do what he say's.
Psalm 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou [art] my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Act 13:33 'Elohim hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.
John 3:16 For 'Elohim so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Hebrew 5:5 So also the Messiah glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.
1Peter 1:3 Blessed [be] the 'Elohim and Father of our Lord Yeshua HaMoshiac, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Yeshua HaMoshiac from the dead,
1Corinthians 4:15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in the Messiah, yet [have ye] not many fathers: for in Yeshua HaMoshiac I have begotten you through the gospel.
Colossians 1:18-19 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence. For it pleased [the Father] that in him should all fulness dwell;
Christ could not be both Creator and created; John 1 clearly names Him Creator and Colossians 1;15-21
“And He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation. For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities — all things have been created by Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the first-born from the dead; so that He Himself might come to have first place in everything. For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.”first-born of all creation” speaks of Christ’s preexistence. He is not a creature but the eternal Creator (John 1:10).
Before Jesus took on human form, we are told that he eternally coexisted with his Father, and as God he had all authority. But Philippians 2:6-11 tells us that even though Jesus had existed in the form of God, he “stripped himself” of God’s powers to be born a human being. Yet the same passage tells us that after his resurrection Jesus was restored to his former glory, and someday “every knee will bow to him as Lord.”
Prior to Jesus taking on human form, we are told that he eternally coexisted with his Father, and as God he had all authority. But Philippians 2:6-11 tells us that even though Jesus had existed in the form of God, he “stripped himself” of God’s powers to be born a human being. Yet the same passage tells us that after his resurrection Jesus was restored to his former glory, and someday “every knee will bow to him as Lord.”katjo
Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 16 2009,06:51) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 15 2009,16:47) Hi CON,
You this scientific idea be applied over what scripture says?
It doesn't take science to understand the egg must be fertilized to grow, whether by mans doing or Yahwehs.If you think Yeshua existed before Mary's conception what was he?
You might as well call yourself a trinitarian.
I believe “harah” is the Hebrew word for conceive. I am not sure the Greeks had a word reserved for it.hi ron
you have not read my quote,
your first sentense prove it ,this is not wath i have said and it is not define to that end ,you make up wath you want then you cover it up,Is this your way?
Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 17 2009,08:16) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 16 2009,06:51) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 15 2009,16:47) Hi CON,
You this scientific idea be applied over what scripture says?
It doesn't take science to understand the egg must be fertilized to grow, whether by mans doing or Yahwehs.If you think Yeshua existed before Mary's conception what was he?
You might as well call yourself a trinitarian.
I believe “harah” is the Hebrew word for conceive. I am not sure the Greeks had a word reserved for it.
Hi brother Const. and Kerwin,
If Jesus was really conceived by Mary a woman he could not have preexisted his birth. No learned biblical scholar can agree with that view stating that Jesus preexisted his conception.Peace to you
AdamQuote (gollamudi @ Nov. 17 2009,11:30) Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 17 2009,08:16) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 16 2009,06:51) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 15 2009,16:47) Hi CON,
You this scientific idea be applied over what scripture says?
It doesn't take science to understand the egg must be fertilized to grow, whether by mans doing or Yahwehs.If you think Yeshua existed before Mary's conception what was he?
You might as well call yourself a trinitarian.
I believe “harah” is the Hebrew word for conceive. I am not sure the Greeks had a word reserved for it.
Hi brother Const. and Kerwin,
If Jesus was really conceived by Mary a woman he could not have preexisted his birth. No learned biblical scholar can agree with that view stating that Jesus preexisted his conception.Peace to you
Adam
Neither myself or Ron believe that Jesus preexisted his conception.Preexistence is a tenet that is based on hard to understand scriptures which corrupt or ignorant individuals have misinterpreted.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 17 2009,03:36) Hi CON,
If you believe Jesus came from above must you believe in the trinity as well?
Nonsense
I believe the prophets and apostle came from God as well as Jesus. I do not believe they are God or that they preexisted because they came from him.Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 17 2009,17:04) Quote (gollamudi @ Nov. 17 2009,11:30) Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 17 2009,08:16) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 16 2009,06:51) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 15 2009,16:47) Hi CON,
You this scientific idea be applied over what scripture says?
It doesn't take science to understand the egg must be fertilized to grow, whether by mans doing or Yahwehs.If you think Yeshua existed before Mary's conception what was he?
You might as well call yourself a trinitarian.
I believe “harah” is the Hebrew word for conceive. I am not sure the Greeks had a word reserved for it.
Hi brother Const. and Kerwin,
If Jesus was really conceived by Mary a woman he could not have preexisted his birth. No learned biblical scholar can agree with that view stating that Jesus preexisted his conception.Peace to you
Adam
Neither myself or Ron believe that Jesus preexisted his conception.Preexistence is a tenet that is based on hard to understand scriptures which corrupt or ignorant individuals have misinterpreted.
Hi KW,
Interesting. So to disagree is to be evil indeed?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 17 2009,12:23) Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 17 2009,17:04) Quote (gollamudi @ Nov. 17 2009,11:30) Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 17 2009,08:16) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 16 2009,06:51) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 15 2009,16:47) Hi CON,
You this scientific idea be applied over what scripture says?
It doesn't take science to understand the egg must be fertilized to grow, whether by mans doing or Yahwehs.If you think Yeshua existed before Mary's conception what was he?
You might as well call yourself a trinitarian.
I believe “harah” is the Hebrew word for conceive. I am not sure the Greeks had a word reserved for it.
Hi brother Const. and Kerwin,
If Jesus was really conceived by Mary a woman he could not have preexisted his birth. No learned biblical scholar can agree with that view stating that Jesus preexisted his conception.Peace to you
Adam
Neither myself or Ron believe that Jesus preexisted his conception.Preexistence is a tenet that is based on hard to understand scriptures which corrupt or ignorant individuals have misinterpreted.
Hi KW,
Interesting. So to disagree is to be evil indeed?
Peter made a very similar statement and he is harsher than I am.2 Peter 3:16(KJV) reads:
Quote As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
I am sure he still believed the unlearned could learn and the corrupt could change their ways.
Jesus did pre-exist! He is the creator. The bible tells us so.(Col 1) ALL THINGS WERE CREATED BY HIM AND FOR HIM.(all, he could not of created him self) If you study the Old Testament, you will see who He truly is. He is our Lord God. Who left that position in heaven to come to earth to take on the sins of the world, and returned back to the glory he had before the world was! IN scripture He is called our Lord God. There is even scripture in the Old Testament of God saying he will come to earth. There is scripture that even says; He has eyes and a mouth. Also scripture saying with our eyes shall we see God. And everything the Old Testament tells you God is-repeats the same thing of Jesus in the New Testament. We are a spirit that lives in a body, but that does not make us different. God is spirit that became flesh in a body too! They are one.
Katjo
Who is our salvation threw? JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD! Who are we waiting for to return? JESUS! Isiah 25;9 And it shall be said in that day, lo, this is our God; we have waited for him and He will save us; this is the LORD; we have waited for Him, we will be glad and rejoice in His salvation.(old Testament) (New Testament- JESUS IS LORD! kING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS! There is only one LORD GOD.
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