Preexistence

[NickHassan]

Quote (Tiffany @ Sep. 13 2008,06:40)

Nick If Jesus was bodily resurrected, why then, and this is in my post too, did the once that were closest to him not recognize him? Did Thomas recognize Jesus when he appeared in the room, or was it after he showed him his hands and side? Did not Paul tell us flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God? God raised him in a spirit body, if you think Jesus is still flesh and blood, than you try to walk trough a wall. If Jesus still had all the bruises, marks and scars, it would not be a glorious body. I wish you would read my post again, this time with a little less pride. Georg

Hi Georg,
That is another issue.

He walked on water in a normal human body too though.

But what we must believe is that Jesus showed all his frail original body of flesh and bones with wounds so deep you could put your hand in.

That is not his our our promised heavenly body.

[Tiffany]

Yes and he turned water into wine, he healed the sick, made the blind see, and raised the dead.
He did all that in a normal human body; what has all that got to do with anything.
Are you sure you're not from Australia? you jump around like a kangaroo.

[Tiffany]

Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 13 2008,10:34)

Can you guys move this conversation to an appropriate thread so that those interested in the subject can find your good debate there!  😉 Thanks.  I keep checking this thread to find preexistence stuff but you guys are talking about something else…….good stuff…..but not preexistence. Thanks, Mandy

Mandy Yes, I tried to put an end to it, some posts back. But these two men, like to go back and forth. I agree, Georg and Nick have to go into a new tread to debate, if that is what they want to do.
Irene

[NickHassan]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 13 2008,12:23)

Quote (Tiffany @ Sep. 13 2008,06:40) Nick If Jesus was bodily resurrected, why then, and this is in my post too, did the once that were closest to him not recognize him? Did Thomas recognize Jesus when he appeared in the room, or was it after he showed him his hands and side? Did not Paul tell us flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God? God raised him in a spirit body, if you think Jesus is still flesh and blood, than you try to walk trough a wall. If Jesus still had all the bruises, marks and scars, it would not be a glorious body. I wish you would read my post again, this time with a little less pride. Georg Hi Georg, That is another issue. He walked on water in a normal human body too though. But what we must believe is that Jesus showed all his frail original body of flesh and bones with wounds so deep you could put your hand in. That is not his our our promised heavenly body.

Hi Georg,
Do you think walking through a wall is distinctly more difficult than on water?

Philip was also transported after speaking with the eunuch but he was a normal human.

Should we remove the scriptures where Jesus showed his wounds to the disciples?

[NickHassan]

Hi not3,
The Son of God was known in Proverbs 30.

[Tiffany]

Quote (Tiffany @ Sep. 13 2008,13:55)

Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 13 2008,10:34) Can you guys move this conversation to an appropriate thread so that those interested in the subject can find your good debate there!  😉 Thanks.  I keep checking this thread to find preexistence stuff but you guys are talking about something else…….good stuff…..but not preexistence. Thanks, Mandy Mandy Yes, I tried to put an end to it, some posts back. But these two men, like to go back and forth. I agree, Georg and Nick have to go into a new tread to debate, if that is what they want to do. Irene

Just want Mandy to see this.
Irene

[NickHassan]

Quote (Tiffany @ Sep. 13 2008,10:25)

Nick, take off your sunglasses, you are in a dark room.

Hi Georg,
Your response surprises me.
I did not think you would attack people but rather defend your beliefs.

[NickHassan]

Hi Georg,
Jb1
6Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

Do you think thise refers to ALL the angels?

[Not3in1]

Quote (Tiffany @ Sep. 13 2008,16:46)

Quote (Tiffany @ Sep. 13 2008,13:55) Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 13 2008,10:34) Can you guys move this conversation to an appropriate thread so that those interested in the subject can find your good debate there!  😉 Thanks.  I keep checking this thread to find preexistence stuff but you guys are talking about something else…….good stuff…..but not preexistence. Thanks, Mandy Mandy Yes, I tried to put an end to it, some posts back. But these two men, like to go back and forth. I agree, Georg and Nick have to go into a new tread to debate, if that is what they want to do. Irene Just want Mandy to see this. Irene

Ah, well, let the boys have their fun! 😉

I just thought they had some good points but no one will see it who is looking for that topic.

Thanks, Irene. Have a great weekend.
Mandy

[Not3in1]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 13 2008,16:50)

Quote (Tiffany @ Sep. 13 2008,10:25) Nick, take off your sunglasses, you are in a dark room. Hi Georg, Your response surprises me. I did not think you would attack people but rather defend your beliefs.

Nick,

It doesn't surprise me. You have a way of bringing this out in people.

Call it a gift?

[charity]

One thing I love about Nick is…he takes it as good as he gives it, I'm afraid I am forced to Love and respect this gifting…charity

[NickHassan]

Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 13 2008,18:49)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 13 2008,16:50) Quote (Tiffany @ Sep. 13 2008,10:25) Nick, take off your sunglasses, you are in a dark room. Hi Georg, Your response surprises me. I did not think you would attack people but rather defend your beliefs. Nick, It doesn't surprise me.  You have a way of bringing this out in people.   Call it a gift?

Hi Not3,
Please stay on topic.

[Tiffany]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 13 2008,19:28)

Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 13 2008,18:49) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 13 2008,16:50) Quote (Tiffany @ Sep. 13 2008,10:25) Nick, take off your sunglasses, you are in a dark room. Hi Georg, Your response surprises me. I did not think you would attack people but rather defend your beliefs. Nick, It doesn't surprise me.  You have a way of bringing this out in people.   Call it a gift?   Hi Not3, Please stay on topic.

Heh Nick Which topic you Guys been of topic for 2 pages. Ha,ha,ha.
Peace and Love Irene

[Not3in1]

Quote (Tiffany @ Sep. 14 2008,01:04)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 13 2008,19:28) Quote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 13 2008,18:49) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 13 2008,16:50) Quote (Tiffany @ Sep. 13 2008,10:25) Nick, take off your sunglasses, you are in a dark room. Hi Georg, Your response surprises me. I did not think you would attack people but rather defend your beliefs. Nick, It doesn't surprise me.  You have a way of bringing this out in people.   Call it a gift?   Hi Not3, Please stay on topic. Heh Nick Which topic you Guys been of topic for 2 pages. Ha,ha,ha.     Peace and Love Irene

What was Charity saying about Nick being able to dish it out as well as take it?  

Nick, if you insist on antagonising people you'll have to learn to take it back from them and other's who have to endure the dialogs.

Mandy

[TimothyVI]

I think that Nick was pulling your leg.
He just did not put a smiling face after his statement.

Tim

[Tiffany]

Quote (TimothyVI @ Sep. 14 2008,04:11)

I think that Nick was pulling your leg. He just did not put a smiling face after his statement. Tim

Timothy You think so? Did you read all of the posts and pages before? I don't think He was pulling anybody leg, but throwing pun-shes, between my Husband and Nick.
Mandy and I tried to stop them, with no luck. Men.

Peace and Love Irene

[gollamudi]

Quote (Adam Pastor @ Sep. 13 2008,12:13)

FYI ROOT of David, in this context is simply a synonym for “offspring/descendant”. Jesus being the root & offspring of David is a parallelism which is doubly saying the same thing for emphasis Here is my former post on this subject :- Following is the definition according to Strong's Concordance: Quote The KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon Strong's Number:   4491  Browse Lexicon   Original Word Word Origin rJivza apparently a primary word Transliterated Word TDNT Entry Rhiza 6:985,985 Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech hrid'-zah      Noun Feminine   Definition a root that which like a root springs from a root, a sprout, shoot metaph. offspring, progeny   … “root and offspring of David” … It is a Parallelism! They are many examples of parallelisms in scripture. It is a Hebraic way of emphasis, and it is definitely not an unnecessary repetition. E.g. (Psa 8:4)  What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? man & 'son of man' are synonymous expressions. The psalmist uses a parallelism to emphasize the point. See also Psa 144.3 Also (Job 25:6)  How much less man, that is a worm? and the son of man, which is a worm? The above are not unnecessary repetition, the terms mean the same thing. Likewise, root and offspring are synonymous terms emphasizing the fact that the Messiah is indeed the Promised descendant/seed of David. … the Messiah is a root of Jesse; the promised root/descendant of Jesse … (Isa 11:10)  And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, … Also, (Isa 11:1)  And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: Picture a family tree … Isaiah is prophesying of a particular 'branch' coming out of Jesse, who will be the Messiah! Root/Rod/Branch are all being used synonymously to denote a particular descendant of Jesse, who in turn would be a particular descendant of David, hence, root of David! BTW, the Greek word for 'root' in Rev 5.5, 22.16, Rom 5.12; is the same Greek word used for 'stem' & 'root(s)' in the LXX (Septuagint) version of Isa 11.1,10! i.e. (Isa 11:1)  And there shall come forth a rod out of the rhiza of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his rhiza: (Isa 11:10)  And in that day there shall be a rhiza of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious. Also let me add the following definitions found from Bible software … conc. 'rhiza' [UBS Grk Dict.] root; descendant; source, cause (of evil) [Thayer's Lexicon] rhiza {hrid'-zah} Meaning: 1) a root 2) that which like a root springs from a root, a sprout, shoot 3) metaph. offspring, progeny Origin: apparently a primary word; TDNT – 6:985,985; n f Usage: AV – root 17; 17 G4491 r`i,za rhiza {hrid'-zah} [LS Grk Lex.] 35625 r`i,za III. metaph. the root or stock from which a family springs, Lat. stirps, Pind., Aesch., etc.; and so a race, family, Aesch., Eur., etc. [Friberg Grk Lex] 04599 r`i,za … metaph. origin, source (RO 11.16-18); (2) fig. and Hebraistically, of a descendant as a shoot or sprout; offspring, scion (RO 15.12). Also the same Greek word is used for 'nativity' in the LXX version of Ezek 16:3 … And say, Thus saith Adonai YAHWEH unto Jerusalem; Thy birth and thy nativity is of the land of Canaan; Therefore Rev 22:16 = Jesus is the descendant and offspring of David! No unnecessary repetition. Simply Emphasis!

Hi brother Adam,
Again I appreciate that wonderful post. If people realise this simple truth they can understand the nature of Jesus in a better way not in a mystified way. Mere jumbling of the words like “root” and “shoot” will not prove Jesus physical preexistence.

Hi Mandy
Thanks for your concern about my health I praise God for keeping me in good health nowadays. I wonder your new understanding on Jesus origins as you say Jesus was “God” in the beginning. I don't know what made you to assume like that ? We are often confused on the nature of Jesus the second Adam a man like you and me but was given the Spirit of Christ (anointing) at Jordan and was declared as the beloved Son of God by God Himself. He has been exalted by God above all authority even above angels to the extent to sit at His (God's) right side. I praise God who has given this privillege and authority to a man Jesus who was made little lower than angels as you and me are also made like that. Don't you think God is great who has made man as His own Son and He makes you and me as His Sons and daughters ?

I believe God's word never changes as it states ” There is only One God and One mediator between God and men the man Jesus the Christ” (1 Tim 2:5). “God was in Jesus and reconcilled whole world unto Him” means God's word tabernecled in Jesus the perfect man.

I want to put a question to all;
How Jesus became the savior of the whole world, the world that existed before Jesus and the world that exists after jesus ?

Thanks and love to you
Adam

[Tiffany]

Quote (gollamudi @ Sep. 14 2008,15:07)

Quote (Adam Pastor @ Sep. 13 2008,12:13) FYI ROOT of David, in this context is simply a synonym for “offspring/descendant”. Jesus being the root & offspring of David is a parallelism which is doubly saying the same thing for emphasis Here is my former post on this subject :- Following is the definition according to Strong's Concordance: Quote The KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon Strong's Number:   4491  Browse Lexicon   Original Word Word Origin rJivza apparently a primary word Transliterated Word TDNT Entry Rhiza 6:985,985 Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech hrid'-zah      Noun Feminine   Definition a root that which like a root springs from a root, a sprout, shoot metaph. offspring, progeny   … “root and offspring of David” … It is a Parallelism! They are many examples of parallelisms in scripture. It is a Hebraic way of emphasis, and it is definitely not an unnecessary repetition. E.g. (Psa 8:4)  What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? man & 'son of man' are synonymous expressions. The psalmist uses a parallelism to emphasize the point. See also Psa 144.3 Also (Job 25:6)  How much less man, that is a worm? and the son of man, which is a worm? The above are not unnecessary repetition, the terms mean the same thing. Likewise, root and offspring are synonymous terms emphasizing the fact that the Messiah is indeed the Promised descendant/seed of David. … the Messiah is a root of Jesse; the promised root/descendant of Jesse … (Isa 11:10)  And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, … Also, (Isa 11:1)  And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: Picture a family tree … Isaiah is prophesying of a particular 'branch' coming out of Jesse, who will be the Messiah! Root/Rod/Branch are all being used synonymously to denote a particular descendant of Jesse, who in turn would be a particular descendant of David, hence, root of David! BTW, the Greek word for 'root' in Rev 5.5, 22.16, Rom 5.12; is the same Greek word used for 'stem' & 'root(s)' in the LXX (Septuagint) version of Isa 11.1,10! i.e. (Isa 11:1)  And there shall come forth a rod out of the rhiza of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his rhiza: (Isa 11:10)  And in that day there shall be a rhiza of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious. Also let me add the following definitions found from Bible software … conc. 'rhiza' [UBS Grk Dict.] root; descendant; source, cause (of evil) [Thayer's Lexicon] rhiza {hrid'-zah} Meaning: 1) a root 2) that which like a root springs from a root, a sprout, shoot 3) metaph. offspring, progeny Origin: apparently a primary word; TDNT – 6:985,985; n f Usage: AV – root 17; 17 G4491 r`i,za rhiza {hrid'-zah} [LS Grk Lex.] 35625 r`i,za III. metaph. the root or stock from which a family springs, Lat. stirps, Pind., Aesch., etc.; and so a race, family, Aesch., Eur., etc. [Friberg Grk Lex] 04599 r`i,za … metaph. origin, source (RO 11.16-18); (2) fig. and Hebraistically, of a descendant as a shoot or sprout; offspring, scion (RO 15.12). Also the same Greek word is used for 'nativity' in the LXX version of Ezek 16:3 … And say, Thus saith Adonai YAHWEH unto Jerusalem; Thy birth and thy nativity is of the land of Canaan; Therefore Rev 22:16 = Jesus is the descendant and offspring of David! No unnecessary repetition. Simply Emphasis! Hi brother Adam, Again I appreciate that wonderful post. If people realise this simple truth they can understand the nature of Jesus in a better way not in a mystified way. Mere jumbling of the words like “root” and “shoot” will not prove Jesus physical preexistence. Hi Mandy Thanks for your concern about my health I praise God for keeping me in good health nowadays. I wonder your new understanding on Jesus origins as you say Jesus was “God” in the beginning. I don't know what made you to assume like that ? We are often confused on the nature of Jesus the second Adam a man like you and me but was given the Spirit of Christ (anointing) at Jordan and was declared as the beloved Son of God by God Himself. He has been exalted by God above all authority even above angels to the extent to sit at His (God's) right side. I praise God who has given this privillege and authority to a man Jesus who was made little lower than angels as you and me are also made like that. Don't you think God is great who has made man as His own Son and He makes you and me as His Sons and daughters ? I believe God's word never changes as it states ” There is only One God and One mediator between God and men the man Jesus the Christ” (1 Tim 2:5). “God was in Jesus and reconcilled whole world unto Him” means God's word tabernecled in Jesus the perfect man. I want to put a question to all; How Jesus became the savior of the whole world, the world that existed before Jesus and the world that exists after jesus ? Thanks and love to you Adam

Adam If you don't take God's word for face value, you will never understand all of what God has revealed to some of us.
John 1:1 does say that the word of God, who became flesh, and that is Jesus, was there from the very beginning.
Rev. 3:14 It says that He was the firstborn of all creation. How more clearer can it get.
Col. 1:15 says that He was first in all and created all. If He created all, He had to be there in a being form and not in just the plan of God like you say it is. John 17:5 says that He will take back what He had before. The glory that He had before. That was and is a Spirit being.
Peace and Love Irene

[Not3in1]

Quote (gollamudi @ Sep. 14 2008,15:07)

I praise God who has given this privillege and authority to a man Jesus who was made little lower than angels as you and me are also made like that.

Hi Adam,

There were men in the past who lived righteous lives and who even died for the cause of God.  A few of these men even found such favor with God that God blessed them into nations; he allowed a couple to not even see death, one to see his backside and the list goes on a bit.  

I wonder what made Jesus any different than these other sons who were loved by God?  Why would he, a man, as you say, be exhalted to the right hand of God?  Why was he alone appointed to be the Savior of mankind and not the others?

What do you think the difference is?  Read Hebrews, chapter 3 and get back to me.

Jesus was more than just a man.  He was more than the first Adam.  He is the man from heaven!

Love,
Mandy

[NickHassan]

Hi not3,
Perfect obedience to God.
Perfect submission to God's Spirit.

A vessel made clean by overcoming in grace so that all of God's powers and graces could be shown in him by God's Spirit.

But an ordinary man enabled by grace.
You can follow him by obedience and seeking the same grace and powers he had.

[Author]

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