Preexistence

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 01 2008,16:53)

not3in1….Mandy when Jesus told us how to pray, He used the words (OUR) Father, didn't that include us also as God's Children to. I read a paper once on this and it brought out that God can not reproduce Himself, Because if He did that person would have had to exist forever and if he produced him then obviously he would not have been in existence as long as the one Who produced Him. So He concluded that the only way anyone could be a child of God was by Adoption. Any way that what it said i personally am not sure.

Peace to you…………..gene

Two things to note here, yes God is the Father of Jesus and our Father as well. But Paul tells us that we eagerly hope for our adoption as sons. He goes on to say that we hope for what we do not have…….yet! :;):

Regarding God reproducing himself, that is not the idea surrounding Jesus at all. God wanted to reconcile the world back to himself. How was he going to do that? He needed to make us acceptable to him again. So through Jesus, we were “qualified” to BECOME sons and daughter's through adoption. That is because Jesus is both divine and mortal. We are only mortal. Jesus is the new creation. Now we can follow him. I hope you can follow my line of reasoning here? I feel like I'm babbling.

July 1, 2008 at 5:19 am#95313

Worshipping Jesus

Participant

Quote (gollamudi @ July 01 2008,14:59)

Quote (Not3in1 @ July 01 2008,08:43)

Quote (gollamudi @ June 30 2008,14:02)

Jesus was called 'Son of God' at his birth in fact he was also to be called 'Immanuel' which means God will be with humans. If we take this literally we have to believe in 'God's incarnation as human' which we don't agree saying that God can not become mortal man and he is not a son of man

If Jesus is “God with us”, why do we have to believe in incarnation automatically? I say that we do not.

A son of a father is someone quite literally who is a “chip off the old block” as the saying goes. For instance my brother looks just like my father. It's uncanny the way he moves, talks and walks like my Dad. In fact, when my Dad died, a lot of my aunts and uncles found great comfort in having my brother around…….they said it was like having my father around…..they said it was like my father was still with us.

Hi Mandy,
I think again we are going into that endless discussions. I agree with you on God has not taken any incarnation in Jesus infact my post was meaning that only. I was only trying to convey you that Jesus was called son of God at his birth not that he literally taken some fleh and blood from God his Father I mean what you say human sperm. There only I differ with you since God can not possess any thing that is mortal in nature.

Please see 1 Tim 6:16

16 “who alone has immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, and whom no human being has seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal power. Amen”

and also Rom 1:23

23 “and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for the likeness of an image of mortal man or of birds or of four-legged animals or of snakes”

How clearly Paul says in both places that you can not imagine God the invisible and immortal in resemblence with human beings. So I believe Jesus' relationship with his Father God was not in flesh and blood but in Spirit which has been given at his birth directly from God. I also believe God anointed Jesus at Jordan with the Spirit of Christ to do public ministry and to do preach good news to people. This is where Nick quotes 'God was in Jesus by the anointing of the Holy Spirit'.

Hi WJ, If the Spirit of God was in Jesus it doesn't mean God has to leave heaven and live in human Jesus. Is He not living in you as the Spirit? Do you think God has left heaven physically and living in you? God is Spirit He is omnipresent and can be present every where at any point of time. He can fill all of us simultaneously without physically leaving His throne in heaven. Your understanding of God leaving heaven is some thing of primitive nature.

Peace to all
Adam

Quote (gollamudi @ July 01 2008,14:59)

You statement is confusing. Emphasis mine. You say…

Quote

“If the Spirit of God was in Jesus it doesn't mean God has to leave heaven and live in human Jesus. Do you think God has left heaven physically and living in you?”,

But you also say…

Quote

“Is He not living in you as the Spirit?”

This is confusing. You say God hasnt left heaven but then you say he lives in us.

Which is it? Is God who is Spirit living in us, (there is only one Spirit), or is he still in heaven?

Then you say…

Quote

“God is Spirit He is omnipresent and can be present every where at any point of time. He can fill all of us simultaneously without physically leaving His throne in heaven. Your understanding of God leaving heaven is some thing of primitive nature.”

So therefore you would agree that the Spirit is God, right?

No my friend, your view of God is primitive, for while you say he is omnipresent, out of your same mouth you say he sits off in heaven somewhere and hasn’t left. The scriptures tell us he fills all things.

Is God in his Kingdom? Does his Kingdom have a throne? The Kingdom of God is without observation. (is not physical or viewable to the natural).

Once, having been asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, “The kingdom of God does not come with your careful observation, nor will people say, ‘Here it is,’ or ‘There it is,’ because the kingdom of God is within you.” Luke 17:20, 21

The Kingdom of God is a spiritual realm; and we are born into it and it is within us, therefore we should not imagine God is physically off in the Universe somewhere.

God is Spirit and he is not limited to a physical realm. Men have these false images of the Father as an old man with a long white beard sitting in some litteral throne on the other side of the universe. This is pure folly. It limits God and makes him after our image.

God does not dwell within the limitations of time, space and matter, For He is everywhere at the same time. He is infinitely bigger than the universe and infinitely as small.

Think about that! WJ

July 1, 2008 at 5:23 am#95315

Participant

Keith,

You're so clever! I like the scrolly thing….

July 1, 2008 at 5:28 am#95317

Worshipping Jesus

Participant

Quote (Not3in1 @ July 01 2008,17:23)

Keith,

You're so clever! I like the scrolly thing….

Mandy!

I hope that is a compliment!

July 1, 2008 at 5:29 am#95318

Participant

Hi Mandy,
I also appreciate the scrolling statement, it seems Wj is not believing this statement he only wants others to believe it. He is assuming that Spirit that abides in us is another God apart from the one sitting in heaven that is the Holy Spirit, there only we differ with the Trinitarians.
What about preexistence debate Sis?
Love to you
Adam

July 1, 2008 at 5:32 am#95320

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 01 2008,17:28)

Quote (Not3in1 @ July 01 2008,17:23)

Keith,

You're so clever! I like the scrolly thing….

Mandy!

I hope that is a compliment!

Yup!

July 1, 2008 at 5:34 am#95321

Participant

Quote (gollamudi @ July 01 2008,17:29)

Adam,

Even the heavens cannot contain God (who is the holy Spirit). Earth is God's footstool and so I suppose we could image God sitting in heaven in a LazyBoy. But I don't think that is true. He's a busy boy, not a lazy boy! :;):

July 1, 2008 at 6:52 am#95336

Participant

Hi not3,
When did God start loving His BELOVED son?

July 1, 2008 at 6:53 am#95337

Participant

Hi Mandy,
What do you mean? I think you misunderstood my words, I meant that Wj was assuming that there are two persons of God; one (Father) is sitting in heaven and other is living in us who is the Holy Spirit. I know that heaven is the throne of God earth is His foot stool. How can you imagine that God is lazy boy even if He sits on a throne like King of kings? Do you think all the kings and presidents who sit on thrones are lazy boys? You are funny Sis. Sitting on the throne shows that they are already in the business.
peace to you
Adam

July 1, 2008 at 3:45 pm#95375

Participant

Hi brother 97407,
Any points on preexistence?

July 1, 2008 at 5:23 pm#95388

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 01 2008,18:52)

Hi not3,
When did God start loving His BELOVED son?

For some reason your question made me smile instantly…..

I think the reason is because it brought me back to before my son was born (in South Korea). You see, I loved him even before he was born!

Can you only love someone who is alive? I still love my parents even though they are deceased. And I certainly loved my children before they were born – I loved the future person they would be. All my plans were for them. Through these hopes and dreams I created nurseries, savings bonds, retirement plans, life insurance policies and college funds.

Through the hope of my certain (well planned), *future* children, I created a great many things. These things are through them and for them!

July 1, 2008 at 5:27 pm#95389

Participant

Quote (gollamudi @ July 01 2008,18:53)

Oh, I understand now Adam. Thanks for clarifying.

Good night to you, brother!
Mandy

July 2, 2008 at 12:48 am#95433

Participant

Quote (Not3in1 @ July 02 2008,05:23)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 01 2008,18:52)

Hi not3,
When did God start loving His BELOVED son?

For some reason your question made me smile instantly…..

I think the reason is because it brought me back to before my son was born (in South Korea). You see, I loved him even before he was born!

Through the hope of my certain (well planned), *future* children, I created a great many things. These things are through them and for them!

Hi Mandy,
Nice way to tell how God loved His son even long before he was born. Here are the words of Jesus in Jn 17:24

24 “Father, they are your gift to me. I wish that where I am 7 they also may be with me, that they may see my glory that you gave me, because you loved me before the foundation of the world”

Many misinterpret these verses and say Jesus was literally existing before the foundations of the world. They nullify the love God has for us even before we are born.

Thanks for giving practical examples.
Love to you.
Adam

July 2, 2008 at 1:13 am#95439

Participant

Quote (Not3in1 @ July 02 2008,05:27)

Quote (gollamudi @ July 01 2008,18:53)

Oh, I understand now Adam. Thanks for clarifying.

Good night to you, brother!
Mandy

Thanks Mandy,
Now it is good morning to me and good evening to you.

July 3, 2008 at 1:55 am#95611

Participant

Hi GM,
It does say names are written in the book of life before the foundation of the world.
Does it say God has loved us from the foundation of the world as it does for Jesus?

July 3, 2008 at 2:37 am#95622

Participant

At lease you have agreed with this Rev 13:8

8 “All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written in the book of life belonging to the Lamb that was slain from the creation of the world”

Now you can see the scripture that support what I believe

1. Eph 1:4-5

4 “For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he[c] predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— 6to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves”

So Nick, you don't believe that God loved you before the foundations of world like the same way He loved His Son Jesus our brother?

July 3, 2008 at 2:40 am#95624

Participant

Hi GM,
Should we guess?

July 3, 2008 at 2:48 am#95626

Participant

you are guessing. see the word “in love” above.
No mindless questions please.

July 3, 2008 at 2:49 am#95628

Participant

Hi GM,
God is love.
You will need to be more specific.

July 3, 2008 at 2:56 am#95631