- This topic has 19,164 replies, 120 voices, and was last updated 1 year, 2 months ago by
.
- Posts
Quote (942767 @ July 01 2007,02:17) Quote (Laurel @ June 30 2007,16:32) Gen. 1:1
In the beginning Elohim created the heavens and the earth. In the Hebrew original text the Word Elohim is used rather than the Word God. Elohim is a plural of the El. So we can see that YHWH, the Father was not alone at creation.
Also in Matt. The Word was made flesh and dwelt among us… tells me that Y'shua was there in the beginning with the Father.
There's another clue although I do not recall of hand where, that speaks of His death and assention. The Word clearly states He desended to the earth to bring the good news of the kingdom, He died and was placed in the earth, or the grave, He then assended to the ritght hand of the Father.
Some take this and twist it all around to say Y'shua went to hell to coax the dead to repentance, which goes against all Scripture about the dead who are asleep. We get one shot at getting it right and that is while we are still alive on the planet. After the first death, and for some it will be the only death, there's no repentance.
Hi Laurel:Thanks for your post. I asked God in prayer why he uses Elohim in various places where he refers to himself, and I believe that the answer that He has given me is that He uses the plural because He is “the God of gods and the Lord of lords” as the following scripture indicates:
De 10:17
For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward:Now we know that there is only “One God”, but we as his children have his nature. Jesus is the express image of his person (Hebrews 1:3), and we as born-again Christains are becoming like him as we learn to apply His Word to our daily lives.
When God uses “us” in the following scripture, my understanding is that he was speaking to the spirit of His Son. Let me paste the scripture below:
Gen. 1:26
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
1:27
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.Verse 1:27 states: “SO GOD CREATED MAN IN HIS OWN IMAGE”, and so this indicates that in the creation God acted alone.
The first Adam was made a living soul (Gen. 2:7). His spirit personality had not been formed. The spirit of God's children will be formed through obedience to His Word, but because we make mistakes we also need the blood of Jesus to wash away our sins. Of course, in the New Covenant we must first be born-again.
1 Co. 15:45
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made * a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening (life-giving) spirit.Again Laurel, thanks for your post. My understanding may differ from what some one else has given, but this is my understanding.
God Bless
94So if “God said this to you then who was John listening to?
Jn 1:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.1 Jn 1:
1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
2 (For the life (not a thought or plan) was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)
3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 01 2007,05:23) Quote (942767 @ July 01 2007,02:17) Quote (Laurel @ June 30 2007,16:32) Gen. 1:1
In the beginning Elohim created the heavens and the earth. In the Hebrew original text the Word Elohim is used rather than the Word God. Elohim is a plural of the El. So we can see that YHWH, the Father was not alone at creation.
Also in Matt. The Word was made flesh and dwelt among us… tells me that Y'shua was there in the beginning with the Father.
There's another clue although I do not recall of hand where, that speaks of His death and assention. The Word clearly states He desended to the earth to bring the good news of the kingdom, He died and was placed in the earth, or the grave, He then assended to the ritght hand of the Father.
Some take this and twist it all around to say Y'shua went to hell to coax the dead to repentance, which goes against all Scripture about the dead who are asleep. We get one shot at getting it right and that is while we are still alive on the planet. After the first death, and for some it will be the only death, there's no repentance.
Hi Laurel:Thanks for your post. I asked God in prayer why he uses Elohim in various places where he refers to himself, and I believe that the answer that He has given me is that He uses the plural because He is “the God of gods and the Lord of lords” as the following scripture indicates:
De 10:17
For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward:Now we know that there is only “One God”, but we as his children have his nature. Jesus is the express image of his person (Hebrews 1:3), and we as born-again Christains are becoming like him as we learn to apply His Word to our daily lives.
When God uses “us” in the following scripture, my understanding is that he was speaking to the spirit of His Son. Let me paste the scripture below:
Gen. 1:26
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
1:27
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.Verse 1:27 states: “SO GOD CREATED MAN IN HIS OWN IMAGE”, and so this indicates that in the creation God acted alone.
The first Adam was made a living soul (Gen. 2:7). His spirit personality had not been formed. The spirit of God's children will be formed through obedience to His Word, but because we make mistakes we also need the blood of Jesus to wash away our sins. Of course, in the New Covenant we must first be born-again.
1 Co. 15:45
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made * a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening (life-giving) spirit.Again Laurel, thanks for your post. My understanding may differ from what some one else has given, but this is my understanding.
God Bless
94So if “God said this to you then who was John listening to?
Jn 1:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.1 Jn 1:
1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
2 (For the life (not a thought or plan) was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)
3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
1Jo 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
1Jo 1:2 (For the life [or the WORD of life, verse 1] was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)
1Jo 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.“…with his Son Jesus Christ” Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
The WORD was made flesh. Where does it say in the beginning was the son? Speaking of beginning, beginning of what? The universe or this New creation? Is the Gospel about the beginning of the universe or this new creation of the Father?
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 01 2007,05:23) Quote (942767 @ July 01 2007,02:17) Quote (Laurel @ June 30 2007,16:32) Gen. 1:1
In the beginning Elohim created the heavens and the earth. In the Hebrew original text the Word Elohim is used rather than the Word God. Elohim is a plural of the El. So we can see that YHWH, the Father was not alone at creation.
Also in Matt. The Word was made flesh and dwelt among us… tells me that Y'shua was there in the beginning with the Father.
There's another clue although I do not recall of hand where, that speaks of His death and assention. The Word clearly states He desended to the earth to bring the good news of the kingdom, He died and was placed in the earth, or the grave, He then assended to the ritght hand of the Father.
Some take this and twist it all around to say Y'shua went to hell to coax the dead to repentance, which goes against all Scripture about the dead who are asleep. We get one shot at getting it right and that is while we are still alive on the planet. After the first death, and for some it will be the only death, there's no repentance.
Hi Laurel:Thanks for your post. I asked God in prayer why he uses Elohim in various places where he refers to himself, and I believe that the answer that He has given me is that He uses the plural because He is “the God of gods and the Lord of lords” as the following scripture indicates:
De 10:17
For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward:Now we know that there is only “One God”, but we as his children have his nature. Jesus is the express image of his person (Hebrews 1:3), and we as born-again Christains are becoming like him as we learn to apply His Word to our daily lives.
When God uses “us” in the following scripture, my understanding is that he was speaking to the spirit of His Son. Let me paste the scripture below:
Gen. 1:26
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
1:27
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.Verse 1:27 states: “SO GOD CREATED MAN IN HIS OWN IMAGE”, and so this indicates that in the creation God acted alone.
The first Adam was made a living soul (Gen. 2:7). His spirit personality had not been formed. The spirit of God's children will be formed through obedience to His Word, but because we make mistakes we also need the blood of Jesus to wash away our sins. Of course, in the New Covenant we must first be born-again.
1 Co. 15:45
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made * a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening (life-giving) spirit.Again Laurel, thanks for your post. My understanding may differ from what some one else has given, but this is my understanding.
God Bless
94So if “God said this to you then who was John listening to?
Jn 1:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.1 Jn 1:
1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
2 (For the life (not a thought or plan) was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)
3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
Hi WJ:Did John say that he was indicating why God used the term Elohim by the scripture that you are quoting or is that your interpretation of the scripture?
As I said I asked God why He used Elohim, and I believe that what I have stated is what God has given me. If you choose not to believe it, that is your preregogative.
Why do you not rather respond to what I have given Isaiah relative to Hebrews 3:1ff?
God Bless
Quote (acertainchap @ June 30 2007,09:08) Quote (Is 1:18 @ June 29 2007,18:04) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 29 2007,17:42) Logic tells us that when someone is born, it is the first time they are on the scene!
Which law of logic?
Isn't it entirely possible that Jesus Christ was born into the flesh but is spiritually eternal?
Yes, anything is possible with God.But I ask, why would God tell us that Jesus was conceived and born if this really isn't the case?
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 30 2007,09:21) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 29 2007,17:42) Logic tells us that when someone is born, it is the first time they are on the scene!
Not3Really?
Then what does “Born again” mean to you?
Being born into this world is quite different than being born again as Jesus taught us to be (of the spirit).Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 30 2007,09:25) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 29 2007,17:42) Logic tells us that when someone is born, it is the first time they are on the scene!
not3Are you saying its impossible for God to take on the likeness of human flesh?
No, I'm not saying anything of the sort. God will do what God will do. Let me qualify that by also adding that if God “took on flesh” it was not the flesh that we now are clothed with. Our flesh is equal to the sinful nature and nothing in God is sinful.However, God has told us that he (himself) is not a man.
He did beget a Son, and that son is a divine man.
Did I answer your question correctly? Or maybe I didn't understand what you were looking for?
Quote (acertainchap @ June 30 2007,11:53) Jesus did pre-exist his birth. John 1:1-14
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word
was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by Him; and without him
was not anything made that was made.
In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
And the light shineth in darkness; and the
darkness comprehended it not.
There was a man sent from God, whose name
was John.
The same came for a witness, to bear witness
of the Light, that all men through him might
believe.
He was not that Light, but was sent to bear
witness of that Light.
That was the true Light, which lighteth every
man that cometh into the world.
He was in the world, and the world was made
by him, and the world knew him not.
He came unto his own, and his own recieved
him not.
But as many as recieved him, to them gave he
power to become the sons of God, even to
them that believe on his name:
Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will
of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt
among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory
as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of
grace and truth.
What do these verses mean to you, Chap?Have you read many views on the passage? Have you contemplated what various views would mean concerning the rest of the Word of God? Or are you already completely convinced of Jesus' preexistence?
Yes, Chap, read the “Preexistence” thread that already exists!
Starting too many threads on the same topic is not good – you are actually helping to create more confusion and I wish you would stop! I'm glad that you are here – but just chill for a while and read-up on some of these threads.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 01 2007,05:23) Quote (942767 @ July 01 2007,02:17) Quote (Laurel @ June 30 2007,16:32) Gen. 1:1
In the beginning Elohim created the heavens and the earth. In the Hebrew original text the Word Elohim is used rather than the Word God. Elohim is a plural of the El. So we can see that YHWH, the Father was not alone at creation.
Also in Matt. The Word was made flesh and dwelt among us… tells me that Y'shua was there in the beginning with the Father.
There's another clue although I do not recall of hand where, that speaks of His death and assention. The Word clearly states He desended to the earth to bring the good news of the kingdom, He died and was placed in the earth, or the grave, He then assended to the ritght hand of the Father.
Some take this and twist it all around to say Y'shua went to hell to coax the dead to repentance, which goes against all Scripture about the dead who are asleep. We get one shot at getting it right and that is while we are still alive on the planet. After the first death, and for some it will be the only death, there's no repentance.
Hi Laurel:Thanks for your post. I asked God in prayer why he uses Elohim in various places where he refers to himself, and I believe that the answer that He has given me is that He uses the plural because He is “the God of gods and the Lord of lords” as the following scripture indicates:
De 10:17
For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward:Now we know that there is only “One God”, but we as his children have his nature. Jesus is the express image of his person (Hebrews 1:3), and we as born-again Christains are becoming like him as we learn to apply His Word to our daily lives.
When God uses “us” in the following scripture, my understanding is that he was speaking to the spirit of His Son. Let me paste the scripture below:
Gen. 1:26
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
1:27
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.Verse 1:27 states: “SO GOD CREATED MAN IN HIS OWN IMAGE”, and so this indicates that in the creation God acted alone.
The first Adam was made a living soul (Gen. 2:7). His spirit personality had not been formed. The spirit of God's children will be formed through obedience to His Word, but because we make mistakes we also need the blood of Jesus to wash away our sins. Of course, in the New Covenant we must first be born-again.
1 Co. 15:45
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made * a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening (life-giving) spirit.Again Laurel, thanks for your post. My understanding may differ from what some one else has given, but this is my understanding.
God Bless
94So if “God said this to you then who was John listening to?
Jn 1:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.1 Jn 1:
1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
2 (For the life (not a thought or plan) was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)
3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
Hi W,
I am glad you have realised that we fellowship both with God and His Son.
SO
God is not three or three as one.Quote (kenrch @ July 01 2007,05:45) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 01 2007,05:23) Quote (942767 @ July 01 2007,02:17) Quote (Laurel @ June 30 2007,16:32) Gen. 1:1
In the beginning Elohim created the heavens and the earth. In the Hebrew original text the Word Elohim is used rather than the Word God. Elohim is a plural of the El. So we can see that YHWH, the Father was not alone at creation.
Also in Matt. The Word was made flesh and dwelt among us… tells me that Y'shua was there in the beginning with the Father.
There's another clue although I do not recall of hand where, that speaks of His death and assention. The Word clearly states He desended to the earth to bring the good news of the kingdom, He died and was placed in the earth, or the grave, He then assended to the ritght hand of the Father.
Some take this and twist it all around to say Y'shua went to hell to coax the dead to repentance, which goes against all Scripture about the dead who are asleep. We get one shot at getting it right and that is while we are still alive on the planet. After the first death, and for some it will be the only death, there's no repentance.
Hi Laurel:Thanks for your post. I asked God in prayer why he uses Elohim in various places where he refers to himself, and I believe that the answer that He has given me is that He uses the plural because He is “the God of gods and the Lord of lords” as the following scripture indicates:
De 10:17
For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward:Now we know that there is only “One God”, but we as his children have his nature. Jesus is the express image of his person (Hebrews 1:3), and we as born-again Christains are becoming like him as we learn to apply His Word to our daily lives.
When God uses “us” in the following scripture, my understanding is that he was speaking to the spirit of His Son. Let me paste the scripture below:
Gen. 1:26
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
1:27
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.Verse 1:27 states: “SO GOD CREATED MAN IN HIS OWN IMAGE”, and so this indicates that in the creation God acted alone.
The first Adam was made a living soul (Gen. 2:7). His spirit personality had not been formed. The spirit of God's children will be formed through obedience to His Word, but because we make mistakes we also need the blood of Jesus to wash away our sins. Of course, in the New Covenant we must first be born-again.
1 Co. 15:45
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made * a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening (life-giving) spirit.Again Laurel, thanks for your post. My understanding may differ from what some one else has given, but this is my understanding.
God Bless
94So if “God said this to you then who was John listening to?
Jn 1:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.1 Jn 1:
1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
2 (For the life (not a thought or plan) was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)
3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
1Jo 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
1Jo 1:2 (For the life [or the WORD of life, verse 1] was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)
1Jo 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.“…with his Son Jesus Christ” Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
The WORD was made flesh. Where does it say in the beginning was the son? Speaking of beginning, beginning of what? The universe or this New creation? Is the Gospel about the beginning of the universe or this new creation of the Father?
kIt dosnt say in the beginning was the Son.
John was talking about Jesus who was/is the Word before he took on the likeness of sinful flesh.
He became a son when he was born.
The Word was with God and the Word was God.
Here is a solid interpretation of Jn 1:1
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….;t=1375
Quote (942767 @ July 01 2007,06:18) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 01 2007,05:23) Quote (942767 @ July 01 2007,02:17) Quote (Laurel @ June 30 2007,16:32) Gen. 1:1
In the beginning Elohim created the heavens and the earth. In the Hebrew original text the Word Elohim is used rather than the Word God. Elohim is a plural of the El. So we can see that YHWH, the Father was not alone at creation.
Also in Matt. The Word was made flesh and dwelt among us… tells me that Y'shua was there in the beginning with the Father.
There's another clue although I do not recall of hand where, that speaks of His death and assention. The Word clearly states He desended to the earth to bring the good news of the kingdom, He died and was placed in the earth, or the grave, He then assended to the ritght hand of the Father.
Some take this and twist it all around to say Y'shua went to hell to coax the dead to repentance, which goes against all Scripture about the dead who are asleep. We get one shot at getting it right and that is while we are still alive on the planet. After the first death, and for some it will be the only death, there's no repentance.
Hi Laurel:Thanks for your post. I asked God in prayer why he uses Elohim in various places where he refers to himself, and I believe that the answer that He has given me is that He uses the plural because He is “the God of gods and the Lord of lords” as the following scripture indicates:
De 10:17
For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward:Now we know that there is only “One God”, but we as his children have his nature. Jesus is the express image of his person (Hebrews 1:3), and we as born-again Christains are becoming like him as we learn to apply His Word to our daily lives.
When God uses “us” in the following scripture, my understanding is that he was speaking to the spirit of His Son. Let me paste the scripture below:
Gen. 1:26
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
1:27
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.Verse 1:27 states: “SO GOD CREATED MAN IN HIS OWN IMAGE”, and so this indicates that in the creation God acted alone.
The first Adam was made a living soul (Gen. 2:7). His spirit personality had not been formed. The spirit of God's children will be formed through obedience to His Word, but because we make mistakes we also need the blood of Jesus to wash away our sins. Of course, in the New Covenant we must first be born-again.
1 Co. 15:45
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made * a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening (life-giving) spirit.Again Laurel, thanks for your post. My understanding may differ from what some one else has given, but this is my understanding.
God Bless
94So if “God said this to you then who was John listening to?
Jn 1:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.1 Jn 1:
1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
2 (For the life (not a thought or plan) was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)
3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
Hi WJ:Did John say that he was indicating why God used the term Elohim by the scripture that you are quoting or is that your interpretation of the scripture?
As I said I asked God why He used Elohim, and I believe that what I have stated is what God has given me. If you choose not to believe it, that is your preregogative.
Why do you not rather respond to what I have given Isaiah relative to Hebrews 3:1ff?
God Bless
94No offence, but I would rather believe the words of John.
For he clearly says that Jesus was there with God in the beginning and by him all things were created.
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….;t=1375
And the Hebrew scriptures clearly says that there was only “One being”, God alone that created all things which clearly supports Johns text that the Word was God!
Quote (Not3in1 @ July 01 2007,07:22) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 30 2007,09:21) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 29 2007,17:42) Logic tells us that when someone is born, it is the first time they are on the scene!
Not3Really?
Then what does “Born again” mean to you?
Being born into this world is quite different than being born again as Jesus taught us to be (of the spirit).
Not3Your statement was…
Quote
Logic tells us that when someone is born, it is the first time they are on the scene!So clearly being born does not necessarily mean that it is the first time they are on the scene.
The spiritural birth of the children of God is as real as the natural birth.
Quote (Not3in1 @ July 01 2007,07:25) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 30 2007,09:25) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 29 2007,17:42) Logic tells us that when someone is born, it is the first time they are on the scene!
not3Are you saying its impossible for God to take on the likeness of human flesh?
No, I'm not saying anything of the sort. God will do what God will do. Let me qualify that by also adding that if God “took on flesh” it was not the flesh that we now are clothed with. Our flesh is equal to the sinful nature and nothing in God is sinful.However, God has told us that he (himself) is not a man.
He did beget a Son, and that son is a divine man.
Did I answer your question correctly? Or maybe I didn't understand what you were looking for?
not3It was just a simple yes or no question.
Could God come in the flesh or is it impossible for him?
I think you said “No”.
Quote (Not3in1 @ July 01 2007,07:21) Quote (acertainchap @ June 30 2007,09:08) Quote (Is 1:18 @ June 29 2007,18:04) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 29 2007,17:42) Logic tells us that when someone is born, it is the first time they are on the scene!
Which law of logic?
Isn't it entirely possible that Jesus Christ was born into the flesh but is spiritually eternal?
Yes, anything is possible with God.But I ask, why would God tell us that Jesus was conceived and born if this really isn't the case?
not3Would Jesus tell us that he came down from heaven if this is not the case?
Jn 6:38
For *I came down* from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.Jn 6:41
The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which *came down from heaven*.Jn 6:42
And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, *I came down* from heaven?Jn 6:51
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.And to make sure that they fully understood what he was saying, he goes on to say…
Jn 6:
61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man *ascend up where he was before*?
And what about these…
Heb 10:5
Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:Jn 17:5
And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which *I had with thee* before the world was.These scriptures do not need any special interpretation!
The writers of the scriptures clearly stated what they heard under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit!
Blessings!
94
You say…
Quote
Why do you not rather respond to what I have given Isaiah relative to Hebrews 3:1ff?God Bless
There is no contradiction here. Jesus is both God and man.
John 1:1-3 clearly shows that that Yahshua before he took on the likeness of sinful flesh in vrs 14, and dwelt among us as man, that by him “ALL” things were created that were created and without him the Word/God was not anything made that was made. Vrs 3.
He was in the world and the world was “made by Him” and the world knew him not. (and many still dont). Vrs 10.
Heb 1:3,10 and Col 1:16,17 are unambiguous scriptures showing Jesus is clearly the executer of the creation.
So the writer of the Book of Hebrews I am sure has not forgotten what he wrote when he says…
Heb 3:
3 For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house.
4 For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.Notice, Moses didnt build his house! Jesus did, for he was worthy of more Glory than Moses since he was the builder of the house.
The writer of Hebrews in the same breath says “God” builds all things!
If God built all things and Jesus built his house, then the writer Hebrews is only reafirming the following…
Heb 1:
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:This is why Jesus is worthy of more Glory and Honor!
Then the writer goes on to say…
Heb 1:
6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….;t=1278
Clearly all things were made by him (Yahshua) and for him and without him was not anything made that was made.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 01 2007,15:31) Quote (Not3in1 @ July 01 2007,07:22) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 30 2007,09:21) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 29 2007,17:42) Logic tells us that when someone is born, it is the first time they are on the scene!
Not3Really?
Then what does “Born again” mean to you?
Being born into this world is quite different than being born again as Jesus taught us to be (of the spirit).
Not3Your statement was…
Quote
Logic tells us that when someone is born, it is the first time they are on the scene!So clearly being born does not necessarily mean that it is the first time they are on the scene.
The spiritural birth of the children of God is as real as the natural birth.
WJ, be serious now. There are two “births” spoken of in scripture – you know this full-well. There is the time when you are born from your mother, and then there is a time when we are born-again of the spirit.Jesus explains both when asked.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 01 2007,16:03) Quote (Not3in1 @ July 01 2007,07:21) Quote (acertainchap @ June 30 2007,09:08) Quote (Is 1:18 @ June 29 2007,18:04) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 29 2007,17:42) Logic tells us that when someone is born, it is the first time they are on the scene!
Which law of logic?
Isn't it entirely possible that Jesus Christ was born into the flesh but is spiritually eternal?
Yes, anything is possible with God.But I ask, why would God tell us that Jesus was conceived and born if this really isn't the case?
not3Would Jesus tell us that he came down from heaven if this is not the case?
Jn 6:38
For *I came down* from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.Jn 6:41
The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which *came down from heaven*.Jn 6:42
And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, *I came down* from heaven?Jn 6:51
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.And to make sure that they fully understood what he was saying, he goes on to say…
Jn 6:
61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man *ascend up where he was before*?
And what about these…
Heb 10:5
Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:Jn 17:5
And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which *I had with thee* before the world was.These scriptures do not need any special interpretation!
The writers of the scriptures clearly stated what they heard under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit!
Blessings!
You didn't answer my question.Quote (Not3in1 @ July 01 2007,18:06) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 01 2007,15:31) Quote (Not3in1 @ July 01 2007,07:22) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 30 2007,09:21) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 29 2007,17:42) Logic tells us that when someone is born, it is the first time they are on the scene!
Not3Really?
Then what does “Born again” mean to you?
Being born into this world is quite different than being born again as Jesus taught us to be (of the spirit).
Not3Your statement was…
Quote
Logic tells us that when someone is born, it is the first time they are on the scene!So clearly being born does not necessarily mean that it is the first time they are on the scene.
The spiritural birth of the children of God is as real as the natural birth.
WJ, be serious now. There are two “births” spoken of in scripture – you know this full-well. There is the time when you are born from your mother, and then there is a time when we are born-again of the spirit.Jesus explains both when asked.
not3I am real.
I am simply saying that one can exist before being born, hence the second birth.
So how is it so hard to accept that Jesus could have existed before his natural birth?
This was the same type of hypothesis that Nicodemus was trying to understand.
Quote (Not3in1 @ July 01 2007,18:18) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 01 2007,16:03) Quote (Not3in1 @ July 01 2007,07:21) Quote (acertainchap @ June 30 2007,09:08) Quote (Is 1:18 @ June 29 2007,18:04) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 29 2007,17:42) Logic tells us that when someone is born, it is the first time they are on the scene!
Which law of logic?
Isn't it entirely possible that Jesus Christ was born into the flesh but is spiritually eternal?
Yes, anything is possible with God.But I ask, why would God tell us that Jesus was conceived and born if this really isn't the case?
not3Would Jesus tell us that he came down from heaven if this is not the case?
Jn 6:38
For *I came down* from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.Jn 6:41
The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which *came down from heaven*.Jn 6:42
And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, *I came down* from heaven?Jn 6:51
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.And to make sure that they fully understood what he was saying, he goes on to say…
Jn 6:
61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man *ascend up where he was before*?
And what about these…
Heb 10:5
Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:Jn 17:5
And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which *I had with thee* before the world was.These scriptures do not need any special interpretation!
The writers of the scriptures clearly stated what they heard under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit!
Blessings!
You didn't answer my question.
not3I believe that Jesus body was concieved just as the scripture says.
Heb 10:5
Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:But do you believe Jesus words.
Jn 6:38
For *I came down* from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.Jn 6:41
The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which *came down from heaven*.Jn 6:42
And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, *I came down* from heaven?Jn 6:51
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.And to make sure that they fully understood what he was saying, he goes on to say…
Jn 6:
61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man *ascend up where he was before*?
And what about these…
Heb 10:5
Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:Jn 17:5
And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which *I had with thee* before the world was.These scriptures do not need any special interpretation!
The writers of the scriptures clearly stated what they heard under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit!
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 01 2007,18:19) This was the same type of hypothesis that Nicodemus was trying to understand.
Exactly. Nico asked, “How can I climb back inside my mother?” Well, OK, he didn't put it like that but essentially that is what he was saying, right? And Jesus said, “No, no, no, you silly man! You're not going to be BORN PHYSICALLY again – but in the spiritual.”First comes the natural THEN the spiritual.
One must be born naturally (physically) before they can be born again spiritually.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
