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Quote (seek and you will find @ June 05 2008,18:55) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 01 2007,09:00) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 01 2007,03:34) You can play with the word “natural birth” and try to say it means Jesus came into existence like you and me if you want, but if what you say is true then Jesus still didnt have a natural birth because he had no natural Father!
And here is the mystery!Jesus did have a natural birth – Mary would slap your face if she heard you say otherwise! She endured the pregnancy that not only brought her physical pain but social pain as well. Mary endured the labor pains! She gave birth to her son in the most “natural” way possible these days. There were no labor drugs or epidurals in those days, mister. So don't deny Mary her due.
Indeed, Jesus did not have a “natural” Father. But he did have a Father……this is the mystery…….God provided what was needed to have a son of his very own. A Son (so to speak) from his body. A son, that like Abraham, he could leave his inheritence to. Understanding this is to understand the who and what Jesus truly is.
You got it, I will slap His face too. Any woman that knows what Childbirth is will. And I also believe that Maria did give birth the Human way, since She was a Human being. How else would She have.
Peace and Love Irene
Thanks for bumping this post (written almost a year ago today). I still stand by Jesus' true sonship to the Almighty and Mary.This is what is meant of the “firstborn” and this is why Jesus is a “new creation”, and this is certainly why “we will follow”.
We cannot follow a preexistent spirit son, and we definitely cannot follow an incarnation.
What Jesus was on earth is what we will become (through adoption). Remember that you only adopt after your own kind. Jesus was the bridge to the new creation. He is our qualifyer (fused God and Man). A NEW MAN. A NEW ADAM.
imo.
MandyQuote (Lightenup @ June 06 2008,02:47) I believe He has a Son with whom He created the world through
Hi Kathi and other's who believe Jesus took part literally in the Creation……Here's a thought, God will not share his glory with another!
His Creation surely is the crowning jewel (next to his son) that gives him glory. We were created to give him glory.
If Jesus was his co-worker, it only stands to reason he would have to “share his glory.” This goes against scripture.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 05 2008,19:11) Why do woman take pride over men for bearing children in pain because of the curse of disobedience?
Well, because men do not endure any “pain” in bearing children…….remember? You guys get the fun part, us ladies endure the curse. Oh, yes! We endure it! Were you present during the birth of your children, Keith?
That's nice post (earlier one) Mandy,
here is the verse for that Isaiah 42:5-8.
“He alone is the creator” Isaiah 44:24Thanks, Adam.
I guess I don't refer to scripture as much as I should. I mean I refer to it because I know it's there…..and I know other's know it's there….I guess I need to quit being so lazy and provide the actual scriptures. Thanks, bro.
Goodnight to you!
MandyQuote (Not3in1 @ June 06 2008,04:26) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 05 2008,19:11) Why do woman take pride over men for bearing children in pain because of the curse of disobedience?
Well, because men do not endure any “pain” in bearing children…….remember? You guys get the fun part, us ladies endure the curse. Oh, yes! We endure it! Were you present during the birth of your children, Keith?
MandyBe honest, did you have your children without drugs?
Most woman feel no pain these days, they just push and pop goes the weasle.
Quote Were you present during the birth of your children, Keith? Not all of them.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 05 2008,12:41) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 06 2008,04:26) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 05 2008,19:11) Why do woman take pride over men for bearing children in pain because of the curse of disobedience?
Well, because men do not endure any “pain” in bearing children…….remember? You guys get the fun part, us ladies endure the curse. Oh, yes! We endure it! Were you present during the birth of your children, Keith?
MandyBe honest, did you have your children without drugs?
Most woman feel no pain these days, they just push and pop goes the weasle.
Quote Were you present during the birth of your children, Keith? Not all of them.
WJ,
I can hardly speak to you right now after that.I almost bit my husbands fingers off as he held my head while I was trying to be still and stay hunched over waiting through one contraction after another getting an epidural. Then, with one of my kids, the epidural only took on one side. With my first kid, the baby was in distress because his mother was dying or so I thought. The second baby oh who listens to me anyway….
You men…sheesh!
Quote (gollamudi @ June 06 2008,04:54) How many WJ?
Hi G3 and 5 grandchildren.
I had 2 girls who are 33 and 32 and one boy who is 26.
Thanks WJ,
You are such an elderly man. Please console our sisters they are in agitated mood with you now.
Don't hurt their feelings because without woman there is no Jesus.
AdamQuote (Lightenup @ June 06 2008,04:58) The second baby oh who listens to me anyway….
Oh, Kathi, you have me laughing this morning!No, men won't “get it” because they have NO CLUE what it takes to pop out a weasle!
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 06 2008,04:41) Be honest, did you have your children without drugs?
Hey, I'm a natural kind of girl (minus my hair color, nails and tanning) We adopted. So, no, I didn't need any drugs.
But I've been present for many births and there is PAIN, let me tell you. Even with drugs, these women suffer. Nothing just “pops out” my dear brother.
Quote (Not3in1 @ June 05 2008,12:23) Quote (Lightenup @ June 06 2008,02:47) I believe He has a Son with whom He created the world through
Hi Kathi and other's who believe Jesus took part literally in the Creation……Here's a thought, God will not share his glory with another!
His Creation surely is the crowning jewel (next to his son) that gives him glory. We were created to give him glory.
If Jesus was his co-worker, it only stands to reason he would have to “share his glory.” This goes against scripture.
Hi Mandy,
God had the glory as the architect, the Son had the glory as the mastercraftsman. God didn't share His glory as the architect but shared the glory of the creation.So Mandy, can you prove that the light of day one was not the Son of God? Can you show us what it was and what happened to it when the Sun was put into the sky just 3 days later? Can you explain why light was made on day one when the sun was planned to exist just a few days later. That doesn't make any sense to me. Why wasn't the sun made to exist on day one.
Also, can you tell me why the Bible says that things were created by the “hand of the Lord” and not “hands of the Lord”? Does it not tell us elsewhere that He had more than one? Can you prove that the “hand of the Lord” can't mean a helper did the work with Him.
Can you tell me how a plan can exist and do its own existing?
I'm sorry but you don't have everything lined up to challenge my theory.
Respectfully,
KathiQuote (gollamudi @ June 06 2008,05:04) Thanks WJ,
You are such an elderly man. Please console our sisters they are in agitated mood with you now.
Don't hurt their feelings because without woman there is no Jesus.
Adam
Adam,I love your manner of speaking. The English language sounds so beautiful coming out of your mouth!
Ya, Keith, we think you're an old fart now…..and you've really got us ticked off! (Adam, that's my interpretation of what you said).
Quote (Lightenup @ June 06 2008,05:10) I'm sorry but you don't have everything lined up to challenge my theory.
Hi Kathy,I wasn't challenging your theory. I was sharing some ideas with you.
I wouldn't even attemp to challenge you. You know why? Because I can tell you are here to teach, not to change your mind or even entertain other ideas. That's OK. But just don't take it too defensively if I or other's throw questions in your direction. You can chose to answer them or not based on their qualifications to challenge you!
Lightenup!
Love,
MandyHere is my unqualified response (I'm only teasing you now)
Quote God had the glory as the architect, the Son had the glory as the mastercraftsman.
To my knowledge there are no scriptures that say the “mastercraftsman” had any glory whatsoever. Can you provide scriptures to back this assumption, please?Quote God didn't share His glory as the architect but shared the glory of the creation.
No. God does not share his glory with another – this is scripture. He is not going to “give credit” to anyone else for his glorious creation.Hebrews 3,4
…..just as the builder of a house has greater honor than the house itself. For every house is built by someone, but God is the builder of everything.God is the builder and the creation is the house, so to speak. Even if Jesus was the masterbuilder his honor is much less. Still, I cannot think of any scriptures that gives this honor/glory to Jesus. God nowhere is said to give glory to the Son for establishing our Creation. If I am wrong, please show me. Rather, the Creation is God's glory alone. He is our Creator.
Quote So Mandy, can you prove that the light of day one was not the Son of God?
Nope. But neither have you. No one has become convinced of your theory. Don't take it too personal, no one is convinced of my theory of John 1:1 and the literal born Son of Jesus either. Quote Also, can you tell me why the Bible says that things were created by the “hand of the Lord” and not “hands of the Lord”? Does it not tell us elsewhere that He had more than one? Can you prove that the “hand of the Lord” can't mean a helper did the work with Him.
I'm sure you are aware of the many verses that says God was ALONE during creation. You interpret these how you wish. When God says he used his own hands….I believe him. He could have said, “With the hands of many I laid the foundations…..”, or “With my hand as the super and other's assisting me, I laid the foundations…..”. But he didn't. He wants sole credit. Praise God!Quote Can you tell me how a plan can exist and do its own existing?
No, because I've never believed this.Take care,
MandyQuote (Lightenup @ June 06 2008,04:58) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 05 2008,12:41) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 06 2008,04:26) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 05 2008,19:11) Why do woman take pride over men for bearing children in pain because of the curse of disobedience?
Well, because men do not endure any “pain” in bearing children…….remember? You guys get the fun part, us ladies endure the curse. Oh, yes! We endure it! Were you present during the birth of your children, Keith?
MandyBe honest, did you have your children without drugs?
Most woman feel no pain these days, they just push and pop goes the weasle.
Quote Were you present during the birth of your children, Keith? Not all of them.
WJ,
I can hardly speak to you right now after that.I almost bit my husbands fingers off as he held my head while I was trying to be still and stay hunched over waiting through one contraction after another getting an epidural. Then, with one of my kids, the epidural only took on one side. With my first kid, the baby was in distress because his mother was dying or so I thought. The second baby oh who listens to me anyway….
You men…sheesh!
LULightenup!
My wife also experienced pain but that was years ago. The reason I say this is my daughters have had five combined and neither experienced any pain or very little and some discomfort.
Things has changed!
“Some discomfort”? Oh geesh……..
They must have been loaded. In that way things have changed. Women take more drugs! But not all women do, Keith. This is the point we are trying to make.Birth=PAIN
Quote (Not3in1 @ June 06 2008,05:11) Quote (gollamudi @ June 06 2008,05:04) Thanks WJ,
You are such an elderly man. Please console our sisters they are in agitated mood with you now.
Don't hurt their feelings because without woman there is no Jesus.
Adam
Adam,I love your manner of speaking. The English language sounds so beautiful coming out of your mouth!
Ya, Keith, we think you're an old fart now…..and you've really got us ticked off! (Adam, that's my interpretation of what you said).
Hey GM and Mandy!I know you girls may feel some pain and you may get even madder for me saying this…
They say that passing a kidney stone the size of a pea through a mans _ _ _ _ _ is worse than child birth, but you dont hear men whining about that.
UH OH I can see the stones coming now!
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 06 2008,05:54) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 06 2008,05:11) Quote (gollamudi @ June 06 2008,05:04) Thanks WJ,
You are such an elderly man. Please console our sisters they are in agitated mood with you now.
Don't hurt their feelings because without woman there is no Jesus.
Adam
Adam,I love your manner of speaking. The English language sounds so beautiful coming out of your mouth!
Ya, Keith, we think you're an old fart now…..and you've really got us ticked off! (Adam, that's my interpretation of what you said).
Hey GM and Mandy!I know you girls may feel some pain and you may get even madder for me saying this…
They say that passing a kidney stone the size of a pea through a mans _ _ _ _ _ is worse than child birth, but you dont hear men whining about that.
UH OH I can see the stones coming now!
Yes, I've heard that passing stones through (and by the way “penis” is not a bad word, OK? ha!) is mighty painful. OUCH!
Anyway, I just think you are not able to appreciate the whole birthing thing simply because you are a man. That's cool. Just don't down-play the womens' lot in life – it will just make them angry with you. If you don't believe me, as your wife!
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