- This topic has 19,164 replies, 120 voices, and was last updated 1 year, 1 month ago by
.
- Posts
Quote (Not3in1 @ June 04 2008,08:43) Also it said he walked in the garden, so he must have had feet? 
I know scripture teaches us that God is not a man, but I'm positive that he has a “make-up” even if it is totally divine. He provided what was needed – and this case it was a divine sperm. Wow, think of that.
MandyBut if the sperm was “different” than ours genetically, then that would mean Yeshua would not be the second Adam.
I guess not. What do you think it means?
Anyway, I do believe that God is the source of everything (including his own Son, Jesus). Because Jesus is human, he provided what was needed. Pure and simple. In my opinion, of course.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 04 2008,08:46) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 04 2008,08:43) Also it said he walked in the garden, so he must have had feet? I know scripture teaches us that God is not a man, but I'm positive that he has a “make-up” even if it is totally divine. He provided what was needed – and this case it was a divine sperm. Wow, think of that.
MandyBut if the sperm was “different” than ours genetically, then that would mean Yeshua would not be the second Adam.
Not true, I don't think.Jesus IS different. He is the new creation. The firstborn.
He is a divine man.
You, my brother, are just a decendent from a mud-man.
Adam was a pattern of the one to come.
One is from heaven, the other from earth.There is a difference. I keep trying to point this out, but noone believes me.
Quote (Not3in1 @ June 03 2008,16:31) Quote (Lightenup @ June 04 2008,08:26) The Heavenly Father did not pass the curse of sin to His child that was conceived in Mary. I hope that I am saying this clear enough.
Loud and clear, Kathi!This is why I believe that Jesus is literally conceived by God and Mary. And this is why I don't believe Jesus preexisted OR that he was just a sperm that God provided (and not the contribution or DNA of God himself).
Jesus was truly conceived and given the attributes and DNA from his Father. This is how he indeed avoided the curse.
Good work, sis!
Mandy
Mandy,
Yeah! I am glad that you see this. We are still on two different paths though. I see other reasons that Jesus was fathered by the Holy Spirit too. One reason is to prepare a holy human body to have the pre-existent spirit of the Son to dwell in and be able to be a blood sacrifice for us. The flesh is really not nearly as important as the spirit that dwells within because the flesh is exchanged for a new body when we are resurrected. A new body with the same spirit.Another reason He was conceived by the Holy Spirit is because that way He wouldn't be called the biological son of Joseph. The Son of God was the Son “yesterday, today, and forever” as is said in scripture that He is the same yesterday, today and forever. Always a son.
I do not believe that Jesus pre-existed His conception either, but I do believe that the heavenly being with the spirit of the only begotten son did exist and was born of God Himself on day one of creation as I think you probably know by now.
Just more of my thoughts…I am not infailable but trusting God to lead me.
Love ya,
KathiQuote (Not3in1 @ June 04 2008,08:46) I guess not. What do you think it means? Anyway, I do believe that God is the source of everything (including his own Son, Jesus). Because Jesus is human, he provided what was needed. Pure and simple. In my opinion, of course.
MandyThe creation of man was twofold.
God formed him from the dust of the ground and then breathed into him the breath of life and man became a living soul/spirit.
What makes Yeshua Divine is not his body which the Lord prepared for him, (Heb 10:5) which was purely physical. It is the Eternal Spirit which was with God. John 1:1
So Yeshua is the Word/Spirit which was made flesh or tabernacled among us. John 1:14, Phil 2:4-6
Blessings!
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 03 2008,16:46) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 04 2008,08:43) Also it said he walked in the garden, so he must have had feet? I know scripture teaches us that God is not a man, but I'm positive that he has a “make-up” even if it is totally divine. He provided what was needed – and this case it was a divine sperm. Wow, think of that.
MandyBut if the sperm was “different” than ours genetically, then that would mean Yeshua would not be the second Adam.
Hi WJ,
I guess that the sperm from the Heavenly Father that fertilized Mary was the kind that he designed for man to have in them. He knows how to make a male sperm afterall. Just trying to reason this out. Adam was made without the curse of sin too. In that way Jesus was the second Adam, the second man made without the curse of sin. Adam had a spirit of man in him, Jesus had the spirit of the Son of God in Him.
LUQuote (Not3in1 @ June 04 2008,08:50) Adam was a pattern of the one to come.
One is from heaven, the other from earth.There is a difference. I keep trying to point this out, but noone believes me.
MandyYes Adam was a pattern. However Adam failed. Yeshua was made physically like Adam, in the “Likeness of sinful flesh”, yet without sin because God bypassed the man from which sin is passed down through.
The only difference in Yeshuas physical birth and ours is his was supernatural because the Father created the sperm to cause Mary to concieve without sin.
Adam was a living soul, Yeshua is a quickening Spirit.
Quote (Lightenup @ June 04 2008,09:07) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 03 2008,16:46) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 04 2008,08:43) Also it said he walked in the garden, so he must have had feet? I know scripture teaches us that God is not a man, but I'm positive that he has a “make-up” even if it is totally divine. He provided what was needed – and this case it was a divine sperm. Wow, think of that.
MandyBut if the sperm was “different” than ours genetically, then that would mean Yeshua would not be the second Adam.
Hi WJ,
I guess that the sperm from the Heavenly Father that fertilized Mary was the kind that he designed for man to have in them. He knows how to make a male sperm afterall. Just trying to reason this out. Adam was made without the curse of sin too. In that way Jesus was the second Adam, the second man made without the curse of sin. Adam had a spirit of man in him, Jesus had the spirit of the Son of God in Him.
LU
LUI agree. Our definition of the Spirit of the Son of God is different though.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 04 2008,08:55) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 04 2008,08:46) I guess not. What do you think it means? Anyway, I do believe that God is the source of everything (including his own Son, Jesus). Because Jesus is human, he provided what was needed. Pure and simple. In my opinion, of course.
MandyThe creation of man was twofold.
God formed him from the dust of the ground and then breathed into him the breath of life and man became a living soul/spirit.
What makes Yeshua Divine is not his body which the Lord prepared for him, (Heb 10:5) which was purely physical. It is the Eternal Spirit which was with God. John 1:1
So Yeshua is the Word/Spirit which was made flesh or tabernacled among us. John 1:14, Phil 2:4-6
Blessings!
I agree, I truly believe that He was there with the Father from the very beginning. He then gave up that glory and became man. That goes along with all the sciptures given, even John 1:1. before He became a man.
Peace and Love Mrs.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 03 2008,16:55) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 04 2008,08:46) I guess not. What do you think it means? Anyway, I do believe that God is the source of everything (including his own Son, Jesus). Because Jesus is human, he provided what was needed. Pure and simple. In my opinion, of course.
MandyThe creation of man was twofold.
God formed him from the dust of the ground and then breathed into him the breath of life and man became a living soul/spirit.
What makes Yeshua Divine is not his body which the Lord prepared for him, (Heb 10:5) which was purely physical. It is the Eternal Spirit which was with God. John 1:1
So Yeshua is the Word/Spirit which was made flesh or tabernacled among us. John 1:14, Phil 2:4-6
Blessings!
Hi again WJ,
You say eternal spirit and this is one point where I disagree with you. If He was eternal, He would be no one's son. He might be a partner but not a son.
LUQuote (WorshippingJesus @ June 04 2008,09:08) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 04 2008,08:50) Adam was a pattern of the one to come.
One is from heaven, the other from earth.There is a difference. I keep trying to point this out, but noone believes me.
MandyYes Adam was a pattern. However Adam failed. Yeshua was made physically like Adam, in the “Likeness of sinful flesh”, yet without sin because God bypassed the man from which sin is passed down through.
The only difference in Yeshuas physical birth and ours is his was supernatural because the Father created the sperm to cause Mary to concieve without sin.
Adam was a living soul, Yeshua is a quickening Spirit.
Hi WJ,
Jesus WAS MADE a life giving spirit.1Cor15
45And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.His anointing MADE HIM the source of the life giving Spirit for the sons of God. He was not the Holy Spirit but was given the Holy Spirit at the Jordan and he shares that Spirit of Christ with us.
Hi WEJ,
Trying other versions
nasb
45So also it is written, “The first (A)MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL ” The (B)last Adam became a Âlife-giving spirit.niv
45So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”[a]; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.esv
45Thus it is written,(A) “The first man Adam became a living being”;[a](B) the last Adam became a life-giving spirit.All seem to say
BECAMEQuote (Lightenup @ June 04 2008,09:13) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 03 2008,16:55) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 04 2008,08:46) I guess not. What do you think it means? Anyway, I do believe that God is the source of everything (including his own Son, Jesus). Because Jesus is human, he provided what was needed. Pure and simple. In my opinion, of course.
MandyThe creation of man was twofold.
God formed him from the dust of the ground and then breathed into him the breath of life and man became a living soul/spirit.
What makes Yeshua Divine is not his body which the Lord prepared for him, (Heb 10:5) which was purely physical. It is the Eternal Spirit which was with God. John 1:1
So Yeshua is the Word/Spirit which was made flesh or tabernacled among us. John 1:14, Phil 2:4-6
Blessings!
Hi again WJ,
You say eternal spirit and this is one point where I disagree with you. If He was eternal, He would be no one's son. He might be a partner but not a son.
LU
Hi LUThere is no scripture that says Yeshua was a son before he was born a son.
Sons of God in the Hebrew scriptures are said to be angels. This may explain why the JWs believe Yeshua was Michael.
For the life was manifested, and we have seen [it], and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;) 1 John 1:2
John goes on to confirm in this Epistle who it is that was with the Father.
And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us insight to know him who is true, and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. This one is the true God and eternal life. 1 John 5:20 NET
Foot note.
The pronoun This one (οὗτος, Joutos) refers to a person, but it is far from clear whether it should be understood as a reference (1) to God the Father or (2) to Jesus Christ. R. E. Brown (Epistles of John [AB], 625) comments, “I John, which began with an example of stunning grammatical obscurity in the prologue, continues to the end to offer us examples of unclear grammar.” The nearest previous antecedent is Jesus Christ, immediately preceding, but on some occasions when this has been true the pronoun still refers to God (see 1 John 2:3). The first predicate which follows This one in 5:20, the true God, is a description of God the Father used by Jesus in John 17:3, and was used in the preceding clause of the present verse to refer to God the Father (him who is true). Yet the second predicate of This one in 5:20, eternal life, appears to refer to Jesus, because although the Father possesses “life” (John 5:26, 6:57) just as Jesus does (John 1:4, 6:57, 1 John 5:11), “life” is never predicated of the Father elsewhere, while it is predicated of Jesus in John 11:25 and 14:6 (a self-predication by Jesus). If This one in 5:20 is understood as referring to Jesus, it forms an inclusion with the prologue, which introduced the reader to “the eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us.” Thus it appears best to understand the pronoun This one in 5:20 as a reference to Jesus Christ. The christological affirmation which results is striking, but certainly not beyond the capabilities of the author (see John 1:1 and 20:28): This One [Jesus Christ] is the true God and eternal life.There simply is no unambiguous scripture that says the pre-incarnate Yeshua had a begining.
Blessings.
Quote (Lightenup @ June 04 2008,09:13) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 03 2008,16:55) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 04 2008,08:46) I guess not. What do you think it means? Anyway, I do believe that God is the source of everything (including his own Son, Jesus). Because Jesus is human, he provided what was needed. Pure and simple. In my opinion, of course.
MandyThe creation of man was twofold.
God formed him from the dust of the ground and then breathed into him the breath of life and man became a living soul/spirit.
What makes Yeshua Divine is not his body which the Lord prepared for him, (Heb 10:5) which was purely physical. It is the Eternal Spirit which was with God. John 1:1
So Yeshua is the Word/Spirit which was made flesh or tabernacled among us. John 1:14, Phil 2:4-6
Blessings!
Hi again WJ,
You say eternal spirit and this is one point where I disagree with you. If He was eternal, He would be no one's son. He might be a partner but not a son.
LU
LUYeshua's sonship started here…
And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. Lk 1:35
The Holy thing that was to be born would be called the “Son of God”!
In response to this I thought Is 1:18 had a good answer Here.
“I don't mind replying. I don't hold that Yeshua was the perpetual Son. I think scriptures like Luke 1:35, Romans 1:4 and Hebrews 1:5 unmistakably bear out that the sonship of Yeshua relates to His earthly birth. That is not to say that He did not preexist the incarnation – He did! As the Logos”.
Endure sound teaching…..
http://bibletools.org/index.c….NT
Blessings.
Hi WJ,
You say
“For the life was manifested, and we have seen [it], and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;) 1 John 1:2John goes on to confirm in this Epistle who it is that was with the Father.
And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us insight to know him who is true, and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. This one is the true God and eternal life. 1 John 5:20 NET
John 1 tells us life was IN the Son.
Indeed it is eternal life in him and to be given to us.
Eternal should not be assumed to be always a retrospective term.
Otherwise if it did we too, who have been given it, would also HAVE lived forever.1jn5.20 refers to the ONE also spoken of in that context and elsewhere called the only true God-the Father.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 04 2008,09:48) Hi WJ,
You say
“For the life was manifested, and we have seen [it], and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;) 1 John 1:2John goes on to confirm in this Epistle who it is that was with the Father.
And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us insight to know him who is true, and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. This one is the true God and eternal life. 1 John 5:20 NET
John 1 tells us life was IN the Son.
Indeed it is eternal life in him and to be given to us.
Eternal should not be assumed to be always a retrospective term.
Otherwise if it did we too, who have been given it, would also HAVE lived forever.1jn5.20 refers to the ONE also spoken of in that context and elsewhere called the only true God-the Father.
NHOf couse he is calling him the Son because he is one now.
But you have no scripture saying Yeshua was a son before he was born a Son or else you would say he was born again, and of course that would mean to your doctrine that he was born 3 times once at the Jordan.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
