Preexistence

[NickHassan]

Quote (seek and you will find @ Mar. 02 2008,08:08)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 02 2008,05:12) Hi Mrs, You say “Before then He was the Spokesperson of the Father. It says that nobody has seen or heard the Father. It was always Jesus speaking in the Old Testament or an Angel.” But Heb 1 says 1God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Nick Are you denying that Jesus was not the Word? Yes, He also spoke by the prohets. But you cant deny what I said. Peace and Love Mrs.

Hi Mrs,
Scriupture does not say Jesus spoke to anyone before he came to earth through Mary.

[seek and you will find]

Nick and who spoke to the prophets? It was not God the Father, because nobody has heard or seen the Father.

Peace and Love Mrs.

[942767]

Quote (seek and you will find @ Mar. 02 2008,11:52)

Nick and who spoke to the prophets? It was not God the Father, because nobody has heard or seen the Father. Peace and Love Mrs.

Hi Mrs, I know this addressed to Nick, but the following scripture states:

Quote

Hebrews 1 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

God Bless

[NickHassan]

Quote (942767 @ Mar. 02 2008,09:53)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 02 2008,09:20) Hi 94, Did God form and separate the spirit of the son from Himself but that spirit was not a being? Hi Nick: God and the Son are two separate individual souls.  The God is his Father.  He taught His Son, and His Son obeyed what He was taught.

Hi 94,
The Son was begotten of the Father in the beginning?
Surely you do not believe in a coeternal son?

[Lightenup]

Dear Seek and you shall find,
Please show me scripture that no one has “heard” the Father before. I see that no one has seen God at any time but I haven't found that no one has “heard” Him. It seems to me that it is the Father's voice that says that He is well pleased with His son in the two verses I have included here.
John 1:17-18
18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father,He has explained Him.
NASU
Luke 9:34-36
35 Then a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is My Son, My Chosen One; listen to Him!”
NASU
Luke 3:21-22
22 and the Holy Spirit descended upon Him in bodily form like a dove, and a voice came out of heaven, ” You are My beloved Son, in You I am well-pleased.”
NASU
I just want to understand…K

[Lightenup]

Hi Nick,
I am curious what you think that the Son of God was doing after He was used in creation until He came in the flesh.
I appreciate your great dedication to these forums!
God bless, K

[seek and you will find]

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 02 2008,21:37)

Dear Seek and you shall find, Please show me scripture that no one has “heard” the Father before.  I see that no one has seen God at any time but I haven't found that no one has “heard” Him.  It seems to me that it is the Father's voice that says that He is well pleased with His son in the two verses I have included here. John 1:17-18 18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father,He has explained Him. NASU Luke 9:34-36 35 Then a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is My Son, My Chosen One; listen to Him!” NASU Luke 3:21-22 22 and the Holy Spirit descended upon Him in bodily form like a dove, and a voice came out of heaven, ” You are My beloved Son, in You I am well-pleased.” NASU I just want to understand…K

This is the Scrioptures that says that nobody has heard his voice or seen his form.

Jesus speaking in
John 5:37 ” And the Father Himself who sent Me has testified of Me. You have neither heard His Voice at any time, nor seen His form.

Peace and Love Mrs.

[NickHassan]

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 02 2008,21:41)

Hi Nick, I am curious what you think that the Son of God was doing after He was used in creation until He came in the flesh. I appreciate your great dedication to these forums! God bless, K

Hi LU,
We have some clues.

Jb1
6Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

Jb38
4Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

5Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

6Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

7When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Ps 89
5The heavens will praise Your wonders, O LORD;
Your faithfulness also in the assembly of the holy ones.
6For who in the skies is comparable to the LORD?
Who among the sons of the mighty is like the LORD,
7A God greatly feared in the council of the holy ones,
And awesome above all those who are around Him?
ps149
1Praise the LORD!
Sing to the LORD a new song,
And His praise in the congregation of the godly ones.

They serve God and sing His praises in the heavens.

[Lightenup]

Dear Seek,
That was a good scripture. Thank you!
John 5:37-38

“And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form. 38 “You do not have His word abiding in you, for you do not believe Him whom He sent.
NASU

I wonder, since a voice from heaven in these following verses would seem to be the Father's, that the above verse was meant just for his immediate audience and not in general. He may be saying that to those few that were around him that they never heard His voice or seen His form. If you disagree, then who's voice was it that came out of heaven?

Luke 9:34-36
35 Then a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is My Son, My Chosen One; listen to Him!”
NASU
Luke 3:21-22
22 and the Holy Spirit descended upon Him in bodily form like a dove, and a voice came out of heaven, ” You are My beloved Son, in You I am well-pleased.”
Blessings to you, K

[NickHassan]

Quote (seek and you will find @ Mar. 02 2008,11:52)

Nick and who spoke to the prophets? It was not God the Father, because nobody has heard or seen the Father. Peace and Love Mrs.

Hi Mrs,
Angels serve God as His messengers.
Prophets speak for him and He uses other various ways.

Acts 7:53
you who have received the law that was put into effect through angels but have not obeyed it.”
Galatians 3:19
What, then, was the purpose of the law? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was put into effect through angels by a mediator.
Hebrews 1:1
In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways,

[Lightenup]

Hi Nick,
Yes, I believe that the only begotten God was serving the Most High God and praising Him also but not only in heaven but at times on earth as well.  I believe that the begotten God had a much bigger role in creation than created angels.  I believe that this next passage is speaking of the begotten God:

Prov 8:22-31

22 “The LORD possessed me at the beginning of His way,
Before His works of old.
23 “From everlasting I was established,
From the beginning, from the earliest times of the earth.
24 “When there were no depths I was brought forth,
When there were no springs abounding with water.
25 ” Before the mountains were settled,
Before the hills I was brought forth;
26 While He had not yet made the earth and the fields,
Nor the first dust of the world.
27 “When He established the heavens, I was there,
When He inscribed a circle on the face of the deep,
28 When He made firm the skies above,
When the springs of the deep became fixed,
29 When He set for the sea its boundary
So that the water would not transgress His command,
When He marked out the foundations of the earth;
30 Then I was beside Him, as a master workman;
And I was daily His delight,
Rejoicing always before Him,
31 Rejoicing in the world, His earth,
And having  my delight in the sons of men.
NASU
The begotten God, if this passage is indeed about Him, then was the master workman and actively involved in creation.  If you do not agree that this passage is about Him then who do you think it is about?

Thank you for your previous replies, K

[NickHassan]

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 03 2008,07:17)

Hi Nick, Yes, I believe that the only begotten God was serving the Most High God and praising Him also but not only in heaven but at times on earth as well.  I believe that the begotten God had a much bigger role in creation than created angels.  I believe that this next passage is speaking of the begotten God: Prov 8:22-31 22 “The LORD possessed me at the beginning of His way, Before His works of old. 23 “From everlasting I was established, From the beginning, from the earliest times of the earth. 24 “When there were no depths I was brought forth, When there were no springs abounding with water. 25 ” Before the mountains were settled, Before the hills I was brought forth; 26 While He had not yet made the earth and the fields, Nor the first dust of the world. 27 “When He established the heavens, I was there, When He inscribed a circle on the face of the deep, 28 When He made firm the skies above, When the springs of the deep became fixed, 29 When He set for the sea its boundary So that the water would not transgress His command, When He marked out the foundations of the earth; 30 Then I was beside Him, as a master workman; And I was daily His delight, Rejoicing always before Him, 31 Rejoicing in the world, His earth, And having  my delight in the sons of men. NASU The begotten God, if this passage is indeed about Him, then was the master workman and actively involved in creation.  If you do not agree that this passage is about Him then who do you think it is about? Thank you for your previous replies, K

Hi LU,
We know from Jb 1-2 that Satan visited his earthly domain but scripture does not say that about Christ and we should not add to scripture.

Prov 8 is about she who is Wisdom, not Jesus.

Proverbs 3:19
The LORD by wisdom hath founded the earth; by understanding hath he established the heavens.

[Lightenup]

Hey Nick,

Christ is referred to as the wisdom of God. This passage in Proverbs either personified something that didn't always existed or speaks of a person. You say that it personifies God's wisdom which apparently then didn't previously exist. I do not agree with that.
1 Cor 1:24-25
24 but to those who are the called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.

NASU
God bless, K

[NickHassan]

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 03 2008,06:50)

Dear Seek, That was a good scripture.  Thank you! John 5:37-38 “And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form.  38 “You do not have His word abiding in you, for you do not believe Him whom He sent.   NASU I wonder, since a voice from heaven in these following verses would seem to be the Father's, that the above verse was meant just for his immediate audience and not in general.  He may be saying that to those few that were around him that they never heard His voice or seen His form. If you disagree, then who's voice was it that came out of heaven? Luke 9:34-36 35 Then a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is My Son, My Chosen One; listen to Him!” NASU Luke 3:21-22 22 and the Holy Spirit descended upon Him in bodily form like a dove, and a voice came out of heaven, ” You are My beloved Son, in You I am well-pleased.” Blessings to you, K

Hi LU,
What God manifests of Himself in our realm clearly does not compare with his heavenly form or voice.

[NickHassan]

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 03 2008,08:16)

Hey Nick, Christ is referred to as the wisdom of God.  This passage in Proverbs either personified something that didn't always existed or speaks of a person.  You say that it personifies God's wisdom which apparently then didn't previously exist.  I do not agree with that. 1 Cor 1:24-25 24 but to those who are the called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. NASU God bless, K

Hi LU,
Is Christ just the wisdom of God?
Even the verse you quote shows he is more.

Proverbs 7:4
Say unto wisdom, Thou art my sister; and call understanding thy kinswoman:

Proverbs 8:12
I wisdom dwell with prudence, and find out knowledge of witty inventions.

Who is prudence?

[942767]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 02 2008,16:10)

Quote (942767 @ Mar. 02 2008,09:53) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 02 2008,09:20) Hi 94, Did God form and separate the spirit of the son from Himself but that spirit was not a being? Hi Nick: God and the Son are two separate individual souls.  The God is his Father.  He taught His Son, and His Son obeyed what He was taught. Hi 94, The Son was begotten of the Father in the beginning? Surely you do not believe in a coeternal son?

Hi Nick:

God's Word is with Him from the beginning, therefore, his word is co-eternal.  The spirit of the Son was with God in the begininning.  Jesus was conceived of the Holy Ghost in the womb of the virgin Mary.

You say:

Hi 94,
The Son was begotten of the Father in the beginning?
Surely you do not believe in a coeternal son?

If you have a scripture to support this statement, I will believe it, otherwise, I have given my understanding.

God Bless

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
Were there always two divine beings then?
Or was the Word just an amophous statement and not a being at all?
Was God with His Spirit? Can you show where this is written?

The Spirit proceeds from God never being separate from God.

John 15:26
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

But Christ PROCEEDED forth from AND came from God.
John 8:42
Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

[942767]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 03 2008,08:56)

Hi 94, Were there always two divine beings then? Or was the Word just an amophous statement and not a being at all? Was God with His Spirit? Can you show where this is written? The Spirit proceeds from God never being separate from God. John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: But Christ PROCEEDED forth from AND came from God. John 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

No Nick:

There was not two divine beings.  There was only “ONE GOD” in the beginning, and there will never be more than “ONE GOD”.

God created all things that He created knowing that at the precise time HE would conceive a Son in the womb of the virgin Mary.  He created all things with him in mind, and he is God's heir.  God made every thing that he created for his children.  We are joint heirs with Jesus.

The scripture states: that the Word was with God, and so, if the Word was with God, there cannot be two divine beings. The Word was God, but not in the sense that there are two Gods.  God knew the spirit he would form in His Son by His Word.  The Word is God.  It comes from Him and manifests His charater through His Son.  When we have seen Jesus through the works that he did and does as he obeyed the Word of God we have seen God's character as it relates to humanity.

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved”.

The Holy Spirit is God's Spirit.

Quote

1 Co. 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. 10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. 13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

God Bless

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
So the Word that was with God was not a being?
I agree the Spirit is of God and cannot be with God.

[942767]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 03 2008,09:44)

Hi 94, So the Word that was with God was not a being? I agree the Spirit is of God and cannot be with God.

Hi Nick:

The Word of God was not a living soul or was not a sentient being.  God is the sentient being from whom the Word of God, the spirit of the Son has come.

God Bless

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