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WJ,
I find it very interesting that you imply personal attack on me in this. I even complimented you on your desire to know God and walk with him on another thread.
I made a mistake some months ago and changed my name on the web site. Most have forgotten it, but you felt right at home dragging that up from under the blood.
I never claimed to be a scholar in Greek or Hebrew. In fact I often quote other sources as to where I got my info. Curious that I never thought of belittling other’s education in scripture as my proof text.
Your attitude betrays you. Is this the result of your doctrinal stand?
Quote (martian @ Dec. 18 2007,07:17) WJ, I find it very interesting that you imply personal attack on me in this. I even complimented you on your desire to know God and walk with him on another thread.
I made a mistake some months ago and changed my name on the web site. Most have forgotten it, but you felt right at home dragging that up from under the blood.
I never claimed to be a scholar in Greek or Hebrew. In fact I often quote other sources as to where I got my info. Curious that I never thought of belittling other’s education in scripture as my proof text.
Your attitude betrays you. Is this the result of your doctrinal stand?
martianThere is no attack on you. There is a confrontation to your claim that the scholars are biased in their tranlation of “Logos” and that you would challenge the authority of the scholars that translated the scriptures.
I have not said anything about your relationship with Yeshua or your walk with God.
I have pointed out what I believe to be error on your part.
You seek to to promote your “functional” concept of the scriptures while at the same time condemning those who dont agree with you as being decieved.
Hi C,
Unless you recognise that God was IN CHRIST reconciling the world to Himself[2Cor5]then you will keep confusing the glorious vessel with the awesome contents of that vessel.W H O I S G O D ?
I kope you will all study this article that my Husband wroteAsk this question today in our 21st Century and the answer would be obvious. Most people would point upwards and say, “God is God”. 2000 years ago the answer would not have been so obvious. The Romans had many gods; a god of thunder, a god of lightening, a god of rain, a god of war, a god of love, ect, ect. There is something else people associate with the word god, supernatural powers. In ancient times people would chisel a statue out of rock, or carve a figure out of wood, or shape a figure out of metal, and then call it their god. They would then worship and sacrifice before this god. We may laugh at that today, but then, this was serious business, because people were sacrificed to these gods. But in those days there were also none deities’ gods. People with great political power were gods, so were strong military leaders, or wealthy businessmen. They were all considered mighty men, gods, minus the supernatural powers.
Ps. 82: 1 “ God (the Almighty God) standeth in the congregation of the mighty, he judges among the gods.”
v. 6 “ I have said, ye are gods, and all of you are children of the most High,”
Today we no longer think of them as gods, if we work for them, we would call them Boss. And really that is what the word god stands for, a strong one, a powerful one, and a mighty one. Except when we speak of thee God in heaven, he is the Almighty God, the all-powerful one.
Ps. 86:8 “Among the gods there is none like unto thee O LORD…”
And just as all the gods had names, so did the Almighty God.
Ps. 83:18 “ That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most High over all the earth.”
Is. 42:8 “ I am the LORD (Jehovah): that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images”.
“Jehovah” is the name of the Almighty God, “Yahweh” in Hebrew. The name occurs 6823 times in the O.T., and yet in my bible, the King James, it is only written four times; other translation mentions the name at all. No wonder people think “God” is God’s name. There is a reason why God’s name was omitted. The “Scribes”, a Jewish religious sect, in charge of copying the scriptures, had such a reverence for the name, a fear of using the name in vain, they would not speak it or write it; and so they replaced the name Jehovah with “the LORD”, LORD in capital letters. So, where ever you read “the LORD”, you should know it should say, “Jehovah”
Why can nobody else call himself by that name? Because the definition of the name is;
The everlasting one;
The self-existing one;
The immortal one;
What this means is simply this; God’s existence depends on nothing and no one else; He has always existed, and he can never die, he is immortal, death is impossible. Paul tells us only God is immortal.
1 Tim. 1:17 “Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.”
1 Tim. 6:16 “Who only has immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man has seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.”
The bible also speaks of only one God.
Ex. 8:10 “… know that there is none like unto the LORD (Jehovah) God.”
Deut. 4:35”…know that the LORD (Jehovah) he is God, there is none else beside him”.
Is. 40:13 “Who has directed the spirit of the LORD, or being his counsellor hath taught him?”
v. 25 “ To whom then will ye liken me, or shall I be equal? Saith the Holy One “.
Is. 45:18 “For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he has established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.”
Is. 46:9 “Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, there is none like me.”
Mark 12:32“…well, Master, thou has said the truth, for there is one God and there is none other but he.”
1 Cor. 8:4 “… and that there is none other God but one”.
v. 5 “ For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many “.)
v. 6 “ But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him”.
Why is it, that we have so many clear scriptures that teach us, there is only one God? And why are there no scriptures that clearly show God is a trinity? Because there are none, God is not the author of confusion.
1 Cor. 14:33 “For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.”
There is absolutely nothing in these scriptures above that indicates there are three persons. Infect they emphasize that Jehovah, the Father, is God. If Jesus was God, and equal to God, Is. 40:25 should not be in your bible, and Jesus should not be called his son. God has no equal.
History tells us, a triune god is nothing new. The Egyptians worshiped a triune god long before Christ; Osiris the father, Horus the son, and Ises the virgin. I find the resemblance to the present doctrine of the trinity very interesting, to say the least. India too, is worshiping a triad god, Siva, Brahma and Vishnu. So did the Babylonians, Ishtar, Sin and Shamash. Doesn’t that make you wonder at all? We read in,
1 John 4:12 “No one has seen God at any time…”
If Jesus were “God”, that scripture would not be true, especially since Jesus was the one that said it.
John 1:18 “No man hath seen God at any time…”
Paul says, whether we call someone else god, either in heaven or hear on earth, there is only one God, the Father, the Almighty God. Why do we call God, Father? The definition of the word is, life giver. All life begins with God, and that includes his son Jesus. Why is Jesus called the son? The son is he who receives life from the Father. That is why we read in;
John 3:16 “ For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son…”
v. 17 “ For God sent not his son into the world…”
God gave his son, God sent his son. In other words, Jesus did not become the Fathers son when he was born of Mary; he was his son long before then. After all, did he not create everything?
Col. 1:16 “ For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth…”
If Jesus had become a son when he was born of Mary; should not the Holy Spirit be his father?
Mat. 1:18 “Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary
was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of
the Holy Ghost.”
You must have wondered about that yourself. Speaking of the Holy Spirit, is he God? Is he a person? Do we know his name? Does he have a name? I don’t mean “helper” or “comforter”; those are not names, that is what God’s Holy Spirit does, he helps us, and comforts us. Should it not surprise us that everything in the Universe has a name?
Ps. 147:4 “ He telleth the number of the stars, he calleth them all by their names”.
Except the one (person?), whom we credit with being most influential in our Christian life, the Holy Spirit? If the Holy Spirit was a person, was God, God would have made that very clear in scripture, and again, it would make the Holy Spirit another equal to God. This is only more confusion. Many will reason and say, Jesus spoke of the Holy Spirit as a “he”, that is prove of a person.
John 14:26 “But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send, in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.”
If one little word, “he”, is prove that the Holy Spirit is a person, than the same mu
st be said of another little word, “her”.
Mk. 13:28 “Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near.”
Now you may not find the word “her” in all translation, but it is in my bible, “The Ryrie Study Bible, King James version”. And even if it were present in every bible, no one would assume the fig tree was a woman.
There is not a single scripture that says, the Spirit is God, all scriptures say, the Spirit of God, God’s Holy Spirit, or the Spirit of the Lord. Never is the Spirit addressed in the way we address the Father or the Son; and both are called by their name, so why is the Holy Spirit never called by his name? He has no name; he does not exist, as a third person that is.
I have a question; who raised up Jesus from the dead, God, meaning the Father, or the Spirit?
Acts 13:30 “But God raised him from the dead.”
So, is Paul contradicting himself when he says in Romans it was the Spirit?
Rom. 8:11 “But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.”
It was the Spirit OF God that raised up Jesus, not another person. God has a spirit, Christ has a spirit, Paul had a spirit, I have a spirit, you have a spirit, everybody has a spirit; we call it a mind. You never heard any one say; are you out of your spirit? Or, have you lost your spirit? Whether we call it spirit or mind, its all the same, the difference is; God’s Spirit is Holy, ours is not.
May I also bring to your attention that Paul’s letters, Peter’s and John’s, all start with, “Grace be to you and peace from God our Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ”, never a mentioning of the “Holy Spirit.” If I was the Holy Spirit I would feel left out, wouldn’t you?
Paul always gives thanks to the Father.
Rom. 1:8 “First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all…”
1 Cor. 1:4 “I thank my God always on your behalf…”
Phil. 1:3 “I thank my God upon every remembrance of you.”
Col. 1:3 “We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ…”
1Thes. 1:2 “We give thanks to God always for you all…”
My point is this; considering what the Holy Spirit does for us, would he not deserve some thanks too?
John says, if we abide in the doctrine of Christ we have both, the father and the Son; should we not have all three?
2 John 9 “Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he has both the Father and the Son.”
v. 10 “If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God’s speed.”
Very powerful words, should really make us think!
Why would we even think that our God, who is all wise and all-powerful, would need another person to do all his work? When God wants something done, all he has to do speak the word and it is done;
Ps. 33:9 “For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.”
Let me make another point.
Rev. 3:1 “And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; these things says he that has the seven Spirits of God…”
Why haven’t we heart about God’s seven Spirits? Are they all persons? Seven is God’s number of perfection. The seven Spirits of God only emphasize his perfect Holy Spirit. Paul says there is a spirit in man;
1 Cor. 2:11 “For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which
is in him? Even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.”
This spirit in us, should we ask who is he? Or should we ask what is it? This spirit is our mind; it is what sets us apart from the animals. This mind enables us to learn how to read and write to calculate, to think, to plan and build, with it we make choices, all the things God does. That is the image of God, he has created us in, but it is not another person. We influence other people by example and by what we teach them. God influences us with his Holy Mind, his Holy Spirit. Paul writes to the Philippians;
Phil. 2:5 “ Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus.’
This mind that was in Jesus was the mind of God, Gods spirit, his Holy Spirit.
Why would Paul say?
Eph. 1:3 “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ…”
Eph. 4:6 “ One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all”.
Col. 1:3 “We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ…”
And what else can this next scripture mean except what it says;
1 Cor. 15:28 “And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also
himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.”
Some people think, God is to complicate to be understood, that’s because some people have made God to complicated to be understood. God in his word, the bible, has given us everything we need to know about him; if we go beyond that, its like going to the moon, trying to find out how life began.
Anyone that dares to tamper and distort these scriptures should keep in mind what Paul says in,
Gal. 1:9 “As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.”
Those who are our teachers should take this scripture very serious.Prace and Love Mrs.
Quote (martian @ Dec. 18 2007,06:59) Very simple WJ. I am not changing the translation of the term “word”. I use the scholar own definitions as a statement speach or expressed idea. I DO NOT change it to meaning literally Jesus.
That is your problem.
MartianNo, it is your problem. For the context of the “Word” in Jn 1:1-14 is clearly speaking of Yeshua. Again, there are over 40 pronouns in the first chapter of John all speaking of Yeshua who John clearly calls the “Word”.
Martian
This is what you said on the trinity thread…
Quote
I have dealt with WJ beforeand am well aware of his stubborness. I will commend him for his love of God and his tenacity even if misguided. At least he is entertaining to a point.That said who would you expect to defend the Trinity except thise that have at least some mysticism and illusion guiding them.
Where in my post have I attacked you like this?
Hi colter,
Indeed men are still designing God in their image.There is no trinity teaching in any of scripture so that does not seem a good foundation for the discussion on our God or our Lord, if you are a reborn son of God.
Indeed the Son of God still lives in the given everliving Spirit of God and is AT THE RIGHT HAND of God…. Who is the Father.
We who are joined to the Son enjoy fellowship with both the Father and the Son in that one Spirit of God.
Hi C,
Got me wrong there.
The monogenes Son was sent into the World.
Scripture calls many 'god'.
But if you are in Christ then 1 Cor 8 applies to you.?For us there is one God the Father…and one Lord Jesus Christ..”
Leave the fiddling with the treasures of God's Word to the foolish theologians.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 18 2007,07:53) Hi Mrs Im4,
Please do not keep pasting the same post in other threads.
Thank you
Why not if it goes with the questions at hand. Is there something wrong with telling the truth who God is? All the confusion about Him needs an explanation like the article that my Husband wrote. I see nothing wrong with that.Peace and Love Mrs.
If it is appropriate then it is OK to post in more than one discussion.
If it is not related, then such activity is considered spam.
Just clearing that one up.
Peace.
Quote (Colter @ Dec. 18 2007,09:19) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 18 2007,08:52) Hi colter,
Indeed men are still designing God in their image.There is no trinity teaching in any of scripture so that does not seem a good foundation for the discussion on our God or our Lord, if you are a reborn son of God.
Indeed the Son of God still lives in the given everliving Spirit of God and is AT THE RIGHT HAND of God…. Who is the Father.
We who are joined to the Son enjoy fellowship with both the Father and the Son in that one Spirit of God.
Nick,Don't you feel that ya kind of sidestepped the obvious on that one?
You guys argue that Jesus only existed as Gods intent, plan, an idea that came to fruition at the birth of our Lord, yet now we have at least a duality (two divine persons in heaven) with Jesus having been delegated the attributes and prerogatives of a God?
Your argument is that there is only one God, that Jesus was not the Father incarnate, yet we now have two Gods technically.
Colter
Scripture says that the WORD became flesh. Jesus called his flesh the son of man and His Spirit he gave to the Father to become His Son by Spirit. Did the son of man (Jesus) have a spirit as you and I?
Sure the Son of God is God by nature NOT Rank. Jesus is the first fruit of the Spirit of God. The first Son of God.Jesus the son of man IS the Son of God by Spirit just as we His brethren are. But we are not whole we await our spiritual body. For we know we will be as HE.
1Jo 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
Quote (kenrch @ Dec. 18 2007,14:35) Quote (Colter @ Dec. 18 2007,09:19) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 18 2007,08:52) Hi colter,
Indeed men are still designing God in their image.There is no trinity teaching in any of scripture so that does not seem a good foundation for the discussion on our God or our Lord, if you are a reborn son of God.
Indeed the Son of God still lives in the given everliving Spirit of God and is AT THE RIGHT HAND of God…. Who is the Father.
We who are joined to the Son enjoy fellowship with both the Father and the Son in that one Spirit of God.
Nick,Don't you feel that ya kind of sidestepped the obvious on that one?
You guys argue that Jesus only existed as Gods intent, plan, an idea that came to fruition at the birth of our Lord, yet now we have at least a duality (two divine persons in heaven) with Jesus having been delegated the attributes and prerogatives of a God?
Your argument is that there is only one God, that Jesus was not the Father incarnate, yet we now have two Gods technically.
Colter
Scripture says that the WORD became flesh. Jesus called his flesh the son of man and His Spirit he gave to the Father to become His Son by Spirit. Did the son of man (Jesus) have a spirit as you and I?
Sure the Son of God is God by nature NOT Rank. Jesus is the first fruit of the Spirit of God. The first Son of God.Jesus the son of man IS the Son of God by Spirit just as we His brethren are. But we are not whole we await our spiritual body. For we know we will be as HE.
1Jo 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
God is Jesus' ACTUAL Father. He was the son of man in that He was of the line of David, but He was also the Son of God by the Holy Spirit.Quote (kenrch @ Dec. 18 2007,12:35) Scripture says that the WORD became flesh. Jesus called his flesh the son of man and His Spirit he gave to the Father to become His Son by Spirit. Did the son of man (Jesus) have a spirit as you and I?
Sure the Son of God is God by nature NOT Rank. Jesus is the first fruit of the Spirit of God. The first Son of God.Jesus the son of man IS the Son of God by Spirit just as we His brethren are. But we are not whole we await our spiritual body. For we know we will be as HE.
1Jo 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
Hey that was actually a good post.Might read more of yours.
Quote (martian @ Dec. 18 2007,09:06) WJ Simple question., What is the purpose of scripture? What is the purpose of doctrine/teaching?
martianTo become like God. To be changed into his image from glory to glory.
The problem you have martian is you try and limit “Functionality” to a mere man.
But the scriptures plainly tell us to follow God.
How did the Hebrews follow God? Was it impossible for them to follow a God that is so high above their own understanding that he said his ways were past their finding out.
Yet the prophets followed him. David followed him. What about Enoch? He walked with God and was not because God took him.
Thats functional isnt it? Yet they didnt have a man to follow!
So the argument that if Yeshua is not a mere man then we cant follow him is a red herring, a smoke screen to cover up the fact that Yeshua was divine.
Even Jesus said be ye perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect. Thats funtional isnt it?
If Yeshua has to be just a man for us to follow him then why do we need the Holy Spirit?
Why cant we as men just follow him. The Apostles did without the Spirit and failed miserably, everyone of them forsaking him at his crucifixtion and Peter even denying him.
What was functional is that Yeshua told them to tarry and wait until they be endued from on high with Power, the power of the Holy Spirit and Peter preached under that power and 3000 souls were added to the church that day.
Thats functional. Yet Yeshua was in heaven now, or was he?
These were no longer just normal men. They were men of the Holy Ghost so much so that they brought people to Peter so that if just his shadow would pass by them they would be healed.
So tell me in what way does Yeshua have to be a mere man for the Gospel to be functional.
It is the Gospel of God is it not? Or is it the Gospel of Christ?
Yeshua is still the baptiser in the Holy Spirit.
He still is in every believer. He still upholds all things. He still has all wisdom and knowledge. He still has all power in heaven and earth.
Tell me how do we follow Christ in those things? Christ is all in all now.
Functionality?
Jesus said…
Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. Jn 14:23
Can you follow that?
Jesus also said…
Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Matt 11:28
Can you follow that?
Tell me martian, how can a mere man be in every believer, and draw all men to himself bearing their prayers and their burdens all at the same time?
Yeshua said he would be with us untill the end of the world!
Can you do that?
Thats funtionality!
Hi WJ,
You say
“So the argument that if Yeshua is not a mere man then we cant follow him is a red herring, a smoke screen to cover up the fact that Yeshua was divine.”Is this the supereman you speak of
Is 53
“1Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?2For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
3He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.”
So what happened when this 'divine man' was empowered from above?
Was he given even more power?Acts 10
38How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.It is strange we never saw any supernatural powers from a divine man before that anointing.
Can we follow divine men?
Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
Eph 4:7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
We are Jesus' brethren.
Son was the “Spokesman”, the “Word” for God, in the O.T. as well as in the N.T. Jesus told us,
John 5:37 “And the Father himself, which has sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.”
“Logos” or “the Word” are titles for a spokesperson, who is speaking on the behalf of the one that send him.
Rev. 19:13 “And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.”
For any one to think that the “Word” was just a thought in God’s mind, and became the “Word” when he spoke his mind, is just plain ridiculous. It would then have to be understood that God spoke his thought into Mary and it became his Son. It would also mean that when the Son had finished his work here on earth, he ask the Father to become a thought in his mind again, right?
John 17:4 “I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.”
v. 5 “And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.”
Does it not make you wonder were our scholars and theologians got these glorious ideas from? Did you notice how v. 5 ended? Before the world was. Jesus is telling us that he existed long before the world was, because,
Col. 1:16 “For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him.”
How can we ignore the fact that God gave his Son; that God sent his son?
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son…”
v. 17 “For God sent not his Son into the world…”
These scriptures tell us that God had a Son whom he send into our world. Pay close attention to what the next two verses are saying.
Luke 8:27 “And when he went forth to land, there met him out of the city a certain man, which had devils a long time, and ware no clothes, neither abode in any house, but in the tombs.”
v. 28 “When he saw Jesus, he cried out, and fell down before him, and with a loud voice said, what have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God most high? I beseech thee, torment me not.”
The demons knew who Jesus was, the son, not God. They knew him from the time of creation, they were there, they shouted for joy.
Job 38:4 “Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? Declare, if thou hast understanding.”
v. 7 “When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy.”
Demons had not always been demons.
And then there are those that go to the other extreme and say, Jesus had no beginning, he always existed with the Father as a coequal. Read only the next three scriptures.
Col. 1:15 “Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature.”
Col. 3:10 “And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the
image (Jesus) of him (the Father) that created him.”
Rev. 3:14 “…These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the
beginning of the creation of God.”
Every parent knows what a firstborn is. Does any one not know what an image is? An image is some thing you make after some thing or some one. Who is the one that created him? Would you agree it is the Creator? How do you explain, he, Jesus, is the beginning of the creation of God?
How can we after reading all these scriptures, still insist that Jesus coexisted with the Father from all eternity? Jesus was made in the image of the Father.
Luke 20:24 “Shew me a penny. Whose image and superscription hath it? They answered and said, Caesar’s.”
That penny had a picture on it, made in the image of Caesar. Jesus was made in the image of the Father. The Father is spirit in nature so is Jesus. Adam was created in the image of God,
Gen. 1:26 “And God said, let us make man in our image, after our likeness…”
But Adam was flesh not spirit; a different nature; so what is Adam’s image? What is it that the Father, the Son and us humans have in common? A Mind! Also called a spirit,
1 Cor. 2:11 “For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? Even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.”
God is a thinker, a planer and creator, and so are we; God made us that way, in his image; he has even given us the power to procreate. Jesus was not only the first to receive life, but also the first to live again after death.
Col. 1:18 “ And he is the head of the body, the church; who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.”
I believe, anyone that reads Col. 1:15 and 18, and does not believe what it says, it’s not because it is to complicate to understand, it is a simple case of rejecting truth.
Preeminence is to be the first in everything. You can read about the beginning of Gods creation, his Son, in the book of Proverbs; it is easiest understood when you read it in the JAMES MOFFAT translation;
Prov. 8:22 “ The Eternal formed me first of his creation, first of all his works in days of old;”
v. 23 “ I was fashioned in the earliest ages, from the very first, when earth began;”
v. 24 “ I was born when there were no abysses, when there were no fountains full of water;”
v. 25 “ ere he sunk the bases of the mountains, ere the hills existed, I was born,”
v. 26 “ when earth and fields were not created, nor the very first clods of the World.”
v. 27 “ When he set the heaven up, I was there, when he drew the Vault o’er the abyss,”
v. 28 “ when he made the clouds firm overhead, when he fixed the fountains of the deep.”
v. 29 “ when he set the boundaries of the sea, when he laid foundations for the earth;”
v. 30 “ I was with him then, his foster child, I was his delight day after day, playing in His presence constantly.”
Read what Paul is teaching the saints.
Acts 13:33 “God has fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second Psalms, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.”
You just read the account of the first time God raised up his Son, Prov. 8:23-30. The second time was from the dead. You have to be blind if you can’t see who is being talked about hear. That is exactly why we read in,
John 1:1 “ In the beginning was the Word… (Jesus was the Word).”
When we read in;
Gen. 1:1 “ In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth…”
We have no problem understanding that the earth or the universe for that matter did not always existed, that they had a beginning; why then do we give “ beginning“ a different meaning when it comes to the Son of God, Jesus Christ? Do we think we dishonor Jesus by believing the truth? Or do we think we honor Jesus more by raising him to the same level of his Father? The Father has already raised the son to the highest position; if we try to do more we dishonor the Father.
Someone called Jesus good once.
Luke 18:18 “And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”
Jesus rebuked him by saying,
v. 19 “And Jesus said unto him, why callest thou me good? None is good, save one, that is, God.”
If Jesus were God he would have never denied being good. That of course does not imply that he wasn’t.
Heb. 10:12 “But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down
on the right hand of God.” (Highest position of honor)
We acknowledge the fact that Jesus came to save us, but we also say that he was both flesh and spirit. Why is that false? It would have made Jesus a mixture of two natures; he would have been a hybrid. God hates perversion of hi
s creation; he destroyed the world with a flood once because of it.
Gen. 6:1 “And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth,
and daughters were born unto them.”
v. 2 “That the sons of God (angels) saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and
they took them wives of all which they chose.”
v. 4 “There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of
God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.”
v. 7 “And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the
earth…”
v. 12 “And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had
corrupted his way upon the earth.”
These are not Satan’s demons that corrupted God’s way, these are angels that looked down from heaven and were tempted by the beauty of the woman. Read what Jude and Peter have to say,
Jude 6 “And the angels which kept not their first estate (heaven), but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.”
v. 7 “Even as Sodom and Gomor’rha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving
themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh…”
2 Peter 2:4 “For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment.”
These angels that sinned, corrupting God’s creation, apparently committed a greater sin than Satan and his demons. God locked them up in a prison, and would not allow them to roam the world. God was angry; he did not create humans to become half spirit, or spirit beings to become half humans. God created all after their kind,
Gen. 1:21 “And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.”
v. 24 “And God said, let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, and
creeping things, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.”
v. 25 “And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind,
and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.”
After their kind meaning their nature. Paul gives us this explanation;
1 Cor. 15:39 “All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men,
another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.”
v. 40 “There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial; but the glory of the
celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.”
God created all things for His glory. So then, why did God spared Noah and his family?
Gen. 6:9 “These are the generations of Noah; Noah was a just man and perfect in his
generation, and Noah walked with God.”
What does “perfect in his generations” mean? Noah and his family were the only pure humans left; all others flesh had been corrupted. To mix two kinds creates a hybrid and is an insult to God. The bible does tell us that Jesus was not a mixture of two natures,
Heb. 2:16 “For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the
seed of Abraham.(flesh)”
Jesus came to ransom Adam from the grave and all of us. Adam was flesh, and Jesus had to be of the same nature as the one he was coming to redeem. And only someone that was not affected by Adam’s sin could accomplish this. Adam’s sin made him unclean,
Job 14:4 “Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean?”
Rom. 5:12 “Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and so death passed
upon all men, for that all have sinned.”
Rom. 6:23 “For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord,”
Jesus said he came to ransom many.
Matt. 20:28 “Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.”
What is a ransom? During wartime prisoners of war were ransomed for other prisoners of war, it was an exchange. Jesus came to trade places with Adam. Jesus took Adams sin, and placed it on himself, freeing Adam from the grave, and taking his place in the grave. God gave Jesus back his true nature, spirit, the flesh body of Christ remained in the grave, and so the penalty for sin was paid. God of course disposed of the body for varies reasons.
We are all sinners and deserve death but for now we die for Adam’s sin; or how would you explain the death of infants and little children that know no sin. If we were to die for our sins now, then these little ones should live at least until they have committed a sin. Our only hope was in Jesus Christ who was not of our nature and not effected by the curse of death. God changed his spirit body into a human body; this change did not affect his mind, for he knew who he was, where he came from and why he had come. Jesus knew about his mission from creation,
Rev. 13:8 “And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the earth.”
Although tempted in all things he remained sinless, it was his body that took on our sins, and he became sin for us,
2 Cor. 5:21 “For he has made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be
made the righteousness of God in him.”
Failure was not an option; it would have meant the end of his existence as well as all of ours. Jesus experienced all the things we do in our life, real thirst, real hunger, real pain and death.
Heb. 2:18 “For that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them
that are tempted.”
Heb. 4:15 “For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of
our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.”
Jesus endured it all because his mind was on the eternal not on the temporal.
Heb. 12:2 “Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that
was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the
right hand of the throne of God.”
Jesus died and was placed in a tomb; after three days and three nights, God raised him up. Jesus was given back his true nature, spirit. His flesh body had taken on all of our sins, was no longer needed and God disposed of it. And why should that have surprised any one, that his body was gone? God did tell us ahead of time, he would not allow his body to decay.
Ps. 16:10 “For thou wilt not leave my soul (body) in hell (grave); neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption (decay).”
And Paul does explain,
2 Cor. 5:16 “Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.”
Jesus no longer looked the same, which also explains why all his friends did not recognize him by sight,
John 20:15 “Jesus said unto her (Mary Magdalene), Woman, why weepest thou? Whom
seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have born him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.”
John 21:4 “But when the morning now was come, Jesus stood on the shore; but the
disciples knew not that it was Jesus.”
Luke 24:15 “And it came to pass, that, while they communed together and reasoned,
Jesus himself drew near, and went with them.”
v. 16 “But their eyes were holden that they should not know him.”
Jesus in his spirit body does not look anything like his flesh body that is why all paintings and portraits of him are wrong; including the shroud of Turin. Had God allowed an image of his son to appear on
that shroud; He would have violated his own second commandment. The fact that Jesus rose from the dead is our hope, because he has the keys to unlock the doors to our graves,
Rev. 1:18 “I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell (grave) and of death.”
1 Cor. 15:22 “For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.”
v. 23 “But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.”
Referring to the first resurrection.
John 5:28 “Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the
graves shall hear his voice.”
v. 29 “And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection; and they
that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
For many people that have done great evil to others, it may very well be a resurrection of damnation. As all will be resurrected with the same thinking, the same attitudes, as when they died.
Ezek. 16:53 “When I shall bring again their captivity, the captivity of Sodom and her daughters, and the captivity of Samaria and her daughters, then will I bring again the captivity of thy captives in the midst of them.”
v. 54 “That thou mayest bear thine own shame, and mayest be confounded in all that thou hast done, in that thou art a comfort unto them.”
v. 55 “When thy sisters, Sodom and her daughters, shall return to their former estate, and Samaria and her daughters shall return to their former estate, then thou and thy daughters shall return to your former estate.”
Ezekiel is saying, not only will Israel and Judah be restored, resurrected, but Sodom and Samaria, meaning all evil nations will be restored to their former estate as well. All will awake from their grave, thinking they only been sleeping a few hours.
All will be required to repent and ask for forgiveness, there may be those that have done such evil deeds that they can’t or want repent, nor ask for forgiveness; their fait is sealed. The resurrection of the dead will occur during the thousand-year reign of Christ, the Millennium. God designed this period so that all mankind would have the opportunity to learn the truth. It will be the time when Christ will judge the world. But judgment does not come before a trial. We read in,
1 Peter 4:17 “For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and
if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God.”
Judgment means teaching, testing, and trials, proving you are worthy to receive the gift of God, eternal life. The house of God is his Church, the body of Christ, the Saints. Judgment was on them first because they would reign with Christ. For all others their time of judgment will be during the millennium. The end of them that obey not the gospel during the millennium is also mentioned in,
Acts 3:23 “And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet,
shall be destroyed from among his people.”
Which of course is the second death, eternal death; from which there is no resurrection. This raises a question; who has your allegiance; your Church, your Minister or God? Remember,
Is. 8:20 “To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is
because there is no light (understanding) in them.”
Also keep in mind what Paul says in,
1 Thes. 5:21 “Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.”
It is more than good advice!Prace and Love Mrs.
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