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Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 07 2009,09:00) hi stu
you know that the word BUT stands for SHOVEL OFF'
Not in this case. Here it indicates that hypocrisy is about to be pointed out.Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Dec. 07 2009,07:16) But, despite these kinds of difficulties, it is possible to know with absolute certainty that there is a god that no one has ever seen, and is on a scale far beyond us, and uses laws that we cannot understand. Stuart
Yes that is right. We can know God on a personal level. Some refuse to know God and that is their choice.In the end, no one can say they didn't have an opportunity. We live and seek that which our heart desires. God doesn't force anyone to love him because that is the opposite of love. But a person who truly seeks truth will find it.
It is not about working God out in a test tube because you cannot fathom infinite as a finite creature or with finite utensils. You cannot work God out from your own understanding either.
How it works is that we either have no faith or a level of faith. Your level of faith often leads to the level of revelation you receive from God. God is a God of revelation and visions are his language. Faith is the evidence of things not seen. There are many people in the world that have had revelation from God including myself. It doesn't matter what you say Stu because you cannot argue or hope to compete with pure revelation from the Almighty. You cannot say anything about it or judge it because you are completely ignorant of such things and what you offer is not really that great to be honest. I am mean you offer quite a dismal picture of life. We are all here by random processes and have no real meaning. Yeah right, who wants that except for a person who chooses not God. It is only good or convenient for ignoring truth and has no intrinsic value.
Your point of view is like trying to convince a man who has tasted a rich life to swap that for living in a rubbish tip. You can't debate my experience and the experience of many other people. You are allowed to have your opinion of course and we are allowed to listen to your statements and think what we think.
It also sounds to me Stu that you have so much faith in science that you might even say to God on judgement day, sorry God, you don't exist because all these scientist in my day said you didn't. I mean that is how blind faith works after all.
t8
Quote Yes that is right. We can know God on a personal level. Some refuse to know God and that is their choice.
Translation: I have too much emotional energy invested in my belief system to allow any contradiction of it.Quote In the end, no one can say they didn't have an opportunity. We live and seek that which our heart desires. God doesn't force anyone to love him because that is the opposite of love. But a person who truly seeks truth will find it.
Translation: I am righteous. No one has any excuse no to be like me.Quote It is not about working God out in a test tube because you cannot fathom infinite as a finite creature or with finite utensils. You cannot work God out from your own understanding either.
Translation: People will be impressed with me using the words finite and infinite, even though I have no clue what they mean in this context.Quote How it works is that we either have no faith or a level of faith. Your level of faith often leads to the level of revelation you receive from God. God is a God of revelation and visions are his language. Faith is the evidence of things not seen. There are many people in the world that have had revelation from God including myself.
Translation: I am special.Quote It doesn't matter what you say Stu because you cannot argue or hope to compete with pure revelation from the Almighty.
Translation: I can just use claims of magic to trump whatever anyone says.Quote You cannot say anything about it or judge it because you are completely ignorant of such things and what you offer is not really that great to be honest.
Translation: Only I am qualified to talk about the god in my head.Quote I am mean you offer quite a dismal picture of life. We are all here by random processes and have no real meaning.
Translation: I do not have the imagination to work out for myself what my life is for.Quote Yeah right, who wants that except for a person who chooses not God. It is only good or convenient for ignoring truth and has no intrinsic value.
Translation: I have no idea what I am talking about now.Quote Your point of view is like trying to convince a man who has tasted a rich life to swap that for living in a rubbish tip. You can't debate my experience and the experience of many other people. You are allowed to have your opinion of course and we are allowed to listen to your statements and think what we think.
Translation: I have too much emotional energy invested in my belief system to allow any contradiction of it.Quote It also sounds to me Stu that you have so much faith in science that you might even say to God on judgement day, sorry God, you don't exist because all these scientist in my day said you didn't. I mean that is how blind faith works after all.
I have no faith, t8. We have discussed this before. If your god exists and I get to meet it, I will be doing my level best to get it to answer for the atrocities it has boasted about. Faith in it is deluded; worship of it is immoral. The Good News is that gods, eternal judgement, divine retribution, hell, constant surveillance, demons, witches, goblins, eternal boredom and miracles do not exist. The universe is deity-free, honest and beautiful.Stuart
hi stu
what hell you doing on this site,
this site is for believers, so they can enrich themselfs or share theyr experience,i can t see what you are doing here PLEASE EXPLAIN YOUR ACTION
??Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 08 2009,10:32) hi stu
what hell you doing on this site,
this site is for believers, so they can enrich themselfs or share theyr experience,i can t see what you are doing here PLEASE EXPLAIN YOUR ACTION
??
I often wonder the same thing too!Not that I'm complaining – Stuart seems to generally be reasonable and fairly intelligent – plus he probably has one of the larger overlaps with the sorts of things I know a little about than most other people on the site.
I think you should actually welcome his presence – if your beliefs are strong enough that you can logically argue them, you gain by debating them. Debate can help you solidify your own opinions and also – it's really quite bad to become a camp of “yes” men.
As soon as everyone says “yes” that's the only answer you will ever hear, right or wrong (not that I think this site is in any immediate danger of large numbers of members all agreeing on most things!).
hi doug
you right ,i am in no danger my self ,after a while it does not make sense anymore because we allways end up in the oposite corners,
on the same argument .
what that acomplish?Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 08 2009,11:12) hi doug
you right ,i am in no danger my self ,after a while it does not make sense anymore because we allways end up in the oposite corners,
on the same argument .
what that acomplish?
Nothing if it's a dogmatic exchange of repeated opinions until one or both parties give up in exhaustion.Everything if it's an intelligent exchange of ideas and opinions with open minded rational consideration by both parties to the thoughts of the other.
Sometimes I find people can correct me or point out mistakes I am making – and I find it very valuable and helpful.
Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 08 2009,10:32) hi stu
what hell you doing on this site,
this site is for believers, so they can enrich themselfs or share theyr experience,i can t see what you are doing here PLEASE EXPLAIN YOUR ACTION
??
I thought this part of the site was the Skeptics Place.I am being skeptical. Why should I have to explain myself to you? If you don't want to have your beliefs challenged then don't post them on a website in the public arena. If you don't believe in free speech then why don't you petition t8 and Nick to have me removed?
Your beliefs are only the ideas that you carry in your head, just as are mine. I expect to be challenged on what I think. Do you have good points to raise in response to mine?
Stuart
The Medieval Warm Period appears to me to have been an effect concentrated around the North Atlantic, although its effect on oxygen isotopic ratios in stalagmites in New Zealand suggests that there was some global effect in play. One suggested consequence of global warming is that the Gulf Stream will be disrupted and Western Europe will actually freeze rather than warm up. I wonder if the MWP and Little Ice Age that followed it are more like extreme effects that happen in particularly susceptible climatic systems when a lesser global fluctuation occurs. I realise this is too general to be of much use but there is a distinct possibility in this case that Europe might end up under ice.
Stuart
hi stu
it is not i can not respond ,i did in other topics ,and we allways end up the same way,i try to see progress ,and there is none.
i credit you of argueing ,it seems you find a kik out of itQuote (terraricca @ Dec. 08 2009,17:24) hi stu
it is not i can not respond ,i did in other topics ,and we allways end up the same way,i try to see progress ,and there is none.
i credit you of argueing ,it seems you find a kik out of it
Christianity brings out the worst in me.Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Dec. 08 2009,17:23) The Medieval Warm Period appears to me to have been an effect concentrated around the North Atlantic, although its effect on oxygen isotopic ratios in stalagmites in New Zealand suggests that there was some global effect in play. One suggested consequence of global warming is that the Gulf Stream will be disrupted and Western Europe will actually freeze rather than warm up. I wonder if the MWP and Little Ice Age that followed it are more like extreme effects that happen in particularly susceptible climatic systems when a lesser global fluctuation occurs. I realise this is too general to be of much use but there is a distinct possibility in this case that Europe might end up under ice. Stuart
Thermohaline circulation is pretty interesting – I've not read anything yet where they put a probability of more than 10% on the Gulf stream shutting down. I have read that it has slowed a little so far, but in this country overall we're still seeing temperatures at the high and sometimes record end of the scale disproportionately often – so overall warming has more than compensated (still small scale effects in this country). Mostly changes in this country to date seem to concern the wind (more of it) and the rain (more extreme precipitation events).I get the impression the single event that rapidly shutdown thermohaline circulation in the past was likely the release of a large glacial lake from the Laurentide ice sheet – and currently there is no immediate candidate for an equivalent event, although the melt rate is increasing from Greenland – still an essentually gradual process. Recently read a study suggesting a few months was sufficient for the process last time.
The effects of climate shifts are certainly not uniform in either direction or severity – a global average of <1C highlights that with the effects so far today.
Generally disruption to both ocean and atmospheric circulation seem to be likely events at some point or another – potentially happening quite abruptly when they occur, with far reaching implications for weather patterns and local climates, with the consequent result for agriculture.
Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 09 2009,09:18) hi stu
you never answer to the Neal adams project
All you have actually said is “check it out”. I've done that. t8 has too.So, now what? We've checked it out. So what?
Stuart
hi stu
well i want to know what you think abode it ,this is different than what i learn in school ,and you seem to a intelectual i am not,
give me your opinion
is it to much to ask?Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 09 2009,09:27) hi stu
well i want to know what you think abode it ,this is different than what i learn in school ,and you seem to a intelectual i am not,
give me your opinion
is it to much to ask?
Once again, exactly what topic are we discussing here?Stuart
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