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Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 04 2007,09:57) Quote (942767 @ June 04 2007,08:36) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 04 2007,08:22) Quote (942767 @ June 03 2007,00:53) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 02 2007,22:23) Quote (942767 @ June 02 2007,16:26) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 02 2007,16:15) Hi 94,
It could
but was the son of Man in the form of God on earth?
No rather he was in our image so we can follow him.
No Nick:To me this means that He was God's Only begotten Son and his Christ, and so he was in the “form of God” but this indicates present tense, and so the scripture reads:
Phil 2:5
* Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: (that is when he was in his ministry on earth)
Hi 94,
Just show me when it is written as happening on earth.
When did he empty himself and why is this written as before it says he was found as a man?
Hi Nick:Was he “Christ Jesus” any where else?
Hi 94,
Jesus Christ CAME IN THE FLESH.[1Jn 4. 2Jn]
Hi Nick:I agree Jesus God's Only Begotten Son and His Christ came in the flesh.
Hi 94,
To come in the flesh is to exist and then come.
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever.
Hi Nick:The scripture says that he was conceived of the Holy Ghost. Please show me by scripture how he existed before this took place.
Thanks
Hi 94,
Does every living being need to be conceived to exist?
We should not restrict life to being visible life.
He was before Abraham.Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 04 2007,10:54) Hi 94,
Does every living being need to be conceived to exist?
We should not restrict life to being visible life.
He was before Abraham.
Hi Nick:Only God is self-existant. All other life is dependant on him to exist. He was foreordained before Abraham.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 04 2007,13:11) Hi 94,
Christ was before Abraham.
He said so, and he is truth.
Hi Nick:I believe that he mean that he was foreordained, and this is consistent with what the Apostle Peter said.
God Bless
Exactly! Abraham saw his day, the day of Christ (obviously by faith …. cp. Heb 11.13)
Christ did NOT say that Abraham saw him!! neither did he say he saw Abraham!Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 05 2007,06:49) Hi 94,
Abraham saw his day and rejoiced.
You cannot ascribe everything to prophecy like the BUs do.
Hi Nick:Let me paste the scripture below and see what he said:
8:56
Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.He said Abraham rejoiced to see his day. This is prophetic. Abraham saw his day through faith.
God Bless
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 04 2007,10:54) Hi 94,
Does every living being need to be conceived to exist?
We should not restrict life to being visible life.
He was before Abraham.
Yes, every living human being needs to be conceived in order to exist! We should restrict human life to being visible AND to having begun their life from birth. This are the basic rules of coming into being.You should not mess with the basic rules of anything. Rules are put in place for a reason…..one reason is to keep us safe. In this case, safe from error.
If you want to change this basic rule for humanity, I guess anything is up for grabs.
Scriptures that are hard to understand or that do not line up with the tenor of scripture should be interpreted by other scriptures that are easier to understand. We should not breathe our own ideas into them to make them fit (i.e.; before Abraham I am.) MHO
Quote (Adam Pastor @ June 05 2007,10:41) Christ did NOT say that Abraham saw him!! neither did he say he saw Abraham!
Adam – good point.This passage hasn't brought me the trouble that it does with some. The main reason is that I know Christ did not preexist; and if he did not preexist that understanding this scripture in light of what you shared makes perfect sense AND puts itself in line with the tenor of scriptures.
Hi Not3,
you say
“Yes, every living human being needs to be conceived in order to exist! “
The monogenes son is a man.
Scripture is not as restrictive as you are about the man from heaven as his existence preceded his conception.Nor does scripture come out and say what you believe about the Son of God.
If you were to apply the same rules to your preexistent theory as you as WJ to apply to his three-in-one theory, with all due respect, I believe you would come up short. As you like to say – where is it written? And it would have to be explicity written, I might add. As WJ has shown where he believes the trinity is written, but because it is inferred you throw it out.
Being = exist
Scriptures are not clear on Jesus' life before he was born, if indeed he had one.
The apostles did not teach on Jesus' life before he was born, in fact Peter seemed all-together oblivious to the idea.Preexistence must be deducted.
Jesus coming into being through reproduction (thus the pregnancy and birth) are explicit teachings.
I follow them.
Hi not3,
So 4000 years after Adam another man was born, the second Adam.
He was only unique as a son, as having God as his father.
He was not then the firstborn son?heb 1
” 6And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. “Can I just say that the beginning of Hebrews has caused more frustration to more Christians…..who wrote this book anyway?
It doesn't say he preexisted though, Nick. It doesn't. It says God brought him forth. It doesn't say that God brought him forth from a previous life with him. Does it?
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