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Hi Is 1.18,
There is plenty to discuss in this thread.The verse in context in Phil 2
” 3Do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind regard one another as more important than yourselves;4do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of others.
5Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus,
6who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,
7but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men”
So Jesus demonstrated
Selflessness
Lack of conceit
Humility of Mind
Disregard for his own interests
Preferring the interests of God
Regarding God as more important than himselfin his heavenly dealings with his Father
He did not have equality with God.
He did not seek to wrest it from God
But chose instead servanthoodThe greek word HARPAGMOS
Transliteration:
harpagmos {har-pag-mos'}
Word Origin:
from 726
TDNT:
1:473,80
Part of Speech:
noun masculine
Usage in the KJV:
robbery 1Total: 1
Definition:
the act of seizing, robbery
a thing seized or to be seized
booty to deem anything a prize
a thing to be seized upon or to be held fast, retainedAnd trinitarians are not interested in the more obvious sense of taking by violence
but prefer the idea of retention.
I humbly disagree.Quote The greek word HARPAGMOS Transliteration:
harpagmos {har-pag-mos'}
Word Origin:
from 726
TDNT:
1:473,80
Part of Speech:
noun masculine
Usage in the KJV:
robbery 1Total: 1
Definition:
the act of seizing, robbery
a thing seized or to be seized
booty to deem anything a prize
a thing to be seized upon or to be held fast, retainedAnd trinitarians are not interested in the more obvious sense of taking by violence
but prefer the idea of retention.
What is it about the grammar of Phil 2:6, or the context of the verse within the Phil 2:5-8 passage, that points to an active sense rendering of “harpagmos” (i.e., seizing by force, violence) being “the more obvious” interpretation?Quote I humbly disagree.
On what grounds?Hi Is 1.18,
Imagine that the word was translated
“to retain”
then in context it said Jesus chose not to retain equality with God, who is the Father.
So after his glorious mission when we was given even greater glory than he had before then what does that mean?If he was equal
what is he now?Greater than God?
Hi,
Those who believe God came in the flesh, the catholic doctrine of incarnation, and still had worked in his OWN POWERS have difficulty reconciling this verse where ist says he EMPTIED HIMSELF.Hi,
If the Word can be of the form of God and decide to empty himself, obey his Father and come into the world it seems he must have had life in himself as a being before he came. Surely no one would say he did these things after his conception and birth?Quote Hi,
Those who believe God came in the flesh, the catholic doctrine of incarnation, and still had worked in his OWN POWERS have difficulty reconciling this verse where ist says he EMPTIED HIMSELF.NH
Can you empty yourself and stop being you?
Hi W,
What is an empty God?
Empty of power?
Empty of Glory?
Remember you say Christ is one with God in eternity so it is God Himself that has been emptied>
Can you not see it is ridiculous for God to empty Himself and be even less than ANGELS?Quote Hi W,
What is an empty God?
Empty of power?
Empty of Glory?
Remember you say Christ is one with God in eternity so it is God Himself that has been emptied>
Can you not see it is ridiculous for God to empty Himself and be even less than ANGELS?NH
The confusion must lie in the word empty.
Where do you find the word empty in PHil 2?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 19 2007,23:24) Can you not see it is ridiculous for God to empty Himself and be even less than ANGELS?
Is it impossible for YHWH to put on humanity?
Hi Is 1.18,
It is impossible for God to become less than the angels and die.
If Christ was in the form of God and could have sought equality with God, then he could not have been the God he was in the form of and sought equality with. Scripture is pure and clear. If Christ was that God what point is there in saying these things about him?Hi all:
Paul's intent here was to instruct Christians in humility, and not to show that Jesus was God. Phil. 2:1-10 states: “If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of Spirit, if any bowels and mercies, fulfill ye my joy, that ye be like-minded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind. Let nothing be done through vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better themselves. Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others. Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things and things in earth, and things under the earth; and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father”.
These scriptures show that He was in the form of God, not God himself, but is the express image of God's person (Hebrews 1:3). His authority had been given to him from God, but he in humility did not try to make himself a reputation because of his position, but became obedient even unto death on the cross. And because he did not try to exalt himself but obeyed God, He (God) highly exalted him. And he indeed is worthy of all power, and glory and honor.
Jesus states: “And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted”. (Matt. 23:12) 1 Peter 5:6 states: “Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:…”.
And so, we, in whatever position we hold in the body of Christ, should exercise the same humility.
God Bless
Quote (942767 @ Jan. 20 2007,02:49) Hi all: Paul's intent here was to instruct Christians in humility, and not to show that Jesus was God. Phil. 2:1-10 states: “If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of Spirit, if any bowels and mercies, fulfill ye my joy, that ye be like-minded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind. Let nothing be done through vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better themselves. Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others. Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things and things in earth, and things under the earth; and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father”.
These scriptures show that He was in the form of God, not God himself, but is the express image of God's person (Hebrews 1:3). His authority had been given to him from God, but he in humility did not try to make himself a reputation because of his position, but became obedient even unto death on the cross. And because he did not try to exalt himself but obeyed God, He (God) highly exalted him. And he indeed is worthy of all power, and glory and honor.
Jesus states: “And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted”. (Matt. 23:12) 1 Peter 5:6 states: “Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:…”.
And so, we, in whatever position we hold in the body of Christ, should exercise the same humility.
God Bless
HI SDN,
Here are my thoughts:If we attach a 'snatch' interpretation to harpagamos in Phil 2:6, then I think we actually do violence to the context of the passage itself, which as you rightly posit, is all about humility.
Philippians 2:2-7
2make my joy complete by being of the same mind, maintaining the same love, united in spirit, intent on one purpose.
3Do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind regard one another as more important than yourselves;
4do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of others.
5Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus,
6who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,
7but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.
8Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.If 'harpagamos' in vs. 6 is taken to mean the Logos decided not to 'snatch at' equality with God – how is that humility? It isn't, and it doesn't fit contextually at all. If, however, you interpret it as a 'relinquishing of the equality' that He had intrinsically to take on the form (Gr. morphe) of a bond servant then that is much more in keeping with the overarching context of the passage.
I like how the Amplified translation renders vs 6:
Philippians 2:6 (AMP)
Who, although being essentially one with God and in the form of God [possessing the fullness of the attributes which make God God], did not think this equality with God was a thing to be eagerly grasped or retainedBlessings
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