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Being a Catholic for some 16 or so years and then being an active Jehovahs witness for about 13 years, I have come to learn a lot about the teachings of Christian faith. Some are basic teachings, others are fundamental teachings that 'at the moment' I truly beleive to be the true teaching of the bible, – Gods revelation to man.
I have been reading up on the internet for many years and always find religious websites close to, but slightly different to my take on biblical truth.
I therefore will be as honest and open as I can when stating what I believe to be the truth of the bible. I would like to mention that I am open minded and willing to respect other peoples opinions as to their take on how they view key doctrines. I also believe that I may learn from other peoples views in my quest for Christian truth. My views are as follows
1/ Every man woman and child should be allowed to discuss Gods revealed and inspired word (the bible) freely (2 Tim 3:16).
2/ That there is no such thing as a trinity. There is only one true God ( Yahweh, Yahwah, Yahawah, Yahovah, Yaheveh, Yehaweh, Yehowah, Yehowih, Yehwih, Yahuweh, Yahueh, Yahuah, Jahveh, Iabe, Iahueh, Iehouah, and Jehovah) and that there is no person on earth could know for sure as to how his name should be exactly pronounced; Yet God our Father understands our sincereness when we pray to him, despite our faults and weaknesses. (Deut 6:4)
3/ That Jesus is not God, but rather his only begotten son who is now superior to all the Angels in heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father; having being given power and glory by God. That Jesus pre-existed and that through him the earth was created. (col 1:15-17)
4/ Hell – That the word hell is infact 'Hades' in Greek and that it is the grave. That when a person dies, they go to the grave and are simply sleeping (Ecc 9:10); until the resurrection of the dead (Acts 17:31-32; John 11:25-26). That the lake of fire, spoken of in the book of revelation is symbolic and is refering to destruction/end of death (and Hades-the grave). Why would God (a God of love) prepare in advance such a place as hell if he forknew that some humans would turn bad? would that not appear to be cruel???
There is more I would like to write, but as it is so late I will have send further posts at a later date. Remember, These are what I personally have come to believe, but respect other peoples views if different to my own. This topic of discussion is to find out other peoples views on these doctrines. Thanks
EG
Welcome, EV!
I encourage you to read a lot of back posts to get familiar with the threads, and the people.
Enjoy!
Love,
Mandyevergreen,
There are those here who believe as you do even I agree for the most part. I differ in that while I do not believe in the traditional teaching of trinity and believe that there is only one true almighty God, the Father, the source of everything, and that He exceeds all realities (corporeal, spiritual, maybe others?). I believe that He has chosen His Son to be our God, the Son is the image of the Father and has the nature of the Father (He is all that can be perceived of the Father by those of us in this corporeal existence) and is God’s representative and is in all ways God to us while acknowledging the Father as His God.Quote Hebrews 1:9You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God (the Father is God to the Son), has set you above your companionsJesus is not equal to the Father but He is fully submitted to Him. I have found that this line of thinking brings a harmony to the scriptures.
Unlike many here, I believe that not fully understanding the makeup of an infinite God, is not grounds being disqualified from the Kingdom of God. I believe God gave me that following which I have re-posted from elsewhere
Quote Romans 14:1Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. 2One man's faith allows him to (understand more things and) eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, (understands less and) eats only vegetables. 3The man who (has more knowledge) eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who (understands less) does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. 4Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand. What “God” is, is definitely a “disputable matter”. Why does one “eat everything”, because he has a better understanding, and why does one who is weak “not eat”, because he does not have as good of an understanding. I believe many are taking the trinity dis-agreement beyond what it should be, we are not saved by having a full understanding of what God is, but by what He did for us. As it says later in this same chapter “13Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another.”
I do believe we should try to persuade one another from scripture but to declare “damnation” over titles and such is in my opinion the devils handiwork
Just sharing my position – Wm
Quote (seekingtruth @ Feb. 22 2009,00:13) evergreen,
There are those here who believe as you do even I agree for the most part. I differ in that while I do not believe in the traditional teaching of trinity and believe that there is only one true almighty God, the Father, the source of everything, and that He exceeds all realities (corporeal, spiritual, maybe others?). I believe that He has chosen His Son to be our God, the Son is the image of the Father and has the nature of the Father (He is all that can be perceived of the Father by those of us in this corporeal existence) and is God’s representative and is in all ways God to us while acknowledging the Father as His God.Quote Hebrews 1:9You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God (the Father is God to the Son), has set you above your companionsJesus is not equal to the Father but He is fully submitted to Him. I have found that this line of thinking brings a harmony to the scriptures.
Unlike many here, I believe that not fully understanding the makeup of an infinite God, is not grounds being disqualified from the Kingdom of God. I believe God gave me that following which I have re-posted from elsewhere
Quote Romans 14:1Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. 2One man's faith allows him to (understand more things and) eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, (understands less and) eats only vegetables. 3The man who (has more knowledge) eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who (understands less) does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. 4Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand. What “God” is, is definitely a “disputable matter”. Why does one “eat everything”, because he has a better understanding, and why does one who is weak “not eat”, because he does not have as good of an understanding. I believe many are taking the trinity dis-agreement beyond what it should be, we are not saved by having a full understanding of what God is, but by what He did for us. As it says later in this same chapter “13Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another.”
I do believe we should try to persuade one another from scripture but to declare “damnation” over titles and such is in my opinion the devils handiwork
Just sharing my position – Wm
Hi Seekingtruth,Thank you for your post. I think that I agree with everything you have said.
I didn't realize that we understand things very similarly. Has God shown you what is meant by “the firstborn of all creation” in Col.1? How about your take on John 1:1?
Were you ever a trinitarian? Do you go to a church now, if so, what kind? I hope you don't mind me asking.
LUHi and welcome EG,
Folk shift the deckchairs on the Titanic but only one thing is paramount for men.
Get a lifejacket on.
Mt633But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Then
Lk10
41And Jesus answered and said unto her, Martha, Martha, thou art careful and troubled about many things:42But one thing is needful: and Mary hath chosen that good part, which shall not be taken away from her.
Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 23 2009,08:53) Quote (seekingtruth @ Feb. 22 2009,00:13) evergreen,
There are those here who believe as you do even I agree for the most part. I differ in that while I do not believe in the traditional teaching of trinity and believe that there is only one true almighty God, the Father, the source of everything, and that He exceeds all realities (corporeal, spiritual, maybe others?). I believe that He has chosen His Son to be our God, the Son is the image of the Father and has the nature of the Father (He is all that can be perceived of the Father by those of us in this corporeal existence) and is God’s representative and is in all ways God to us while acknowledging the Father as His God.Quote Hebrews 1:9You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God (the Father is God to the Son), has set you above your companionsJesus is not equal to the Father but He is fully submitted to Him. I have found that this line of thinking brings a harmony to the scriptures.
Unlike many here, I believe that not fully understanding the makeup of an infinite God, is not grounds being disqualified from the Kingdom of God. I believe God gave me that following which I have re-posted from elsewhere
Quote Romans 14:1Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. 2One man's faith allows him to (understand more things and) eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, (understands less and) eats only vegetables. 3The man who (has more knowledge) eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who (understands less) does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. 4Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand. What “God” is, is definitely a “disputable matter”. Why does one “eat everything”, because he has a better understanding, and why does one who is weak “not eat”, because he does not have as good of an understanding. I believe many are taking the trinity dis-agreement beyond what it should be, we are not saved by having a full understanding of what God is, but by what He did for us. As it says later in this same chapter “13Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another.”
I do believe we should try to persuade one another from scripture but to declare “damnation” over titles and such is in my opinion the devils handiwork
Just sharing my position – Wm
Hi Seekingtruth,Thank you for your post. I think that I agree with everything you have said.
I didn't realize that we understand things very similarly. Has God shown you what is meant by “the firstborn of all creation” in Col.1? How about your take on John 1:1?
Were you ever a trinitarian? Do you go to a church now, if so, what kind? I hope you don't mind me asking.
LULightenup,
I believe that the “first born of all creation” comes from when the Father, having determined to create our corporeal reality, spoke it into existence. That is, from outside our reality He established the framework (namely time and 3D space) and at the point where our dimension first began to exist the essence of the Father manifested within this new dimension, not as a created item but the very nature of the Father, a Son truly begotten from the Father.The Son is everything, that those of us within this reality could ever perceive of the Father (when you've seen me you've seen the Father).
As to John 1:1 in the beginning was the word (He spoke into existence) and the word was with God (The manifestation existed independent of the Father) and the word was God(the Son was manifested from the Father)
3Through (key word) him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood[a] it.
…
18No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only (the Son is referred to in many places in scripture as “God” I believe him to be our “God” established so by the Father, He is the Father's agent, representative, obedient Son, etc., to all of creation) who is at the Father's side, has made him known.
Yes I was a trinitarian for 25 years when God gave me this revelation. I was sure I had allowed myself to be decieved except it bought such harmony to scripture I finally had to accept it.
Yes I still attend the AOG church I attended before but their fairly open.
Wm
Hi Seekingtruth,
Thanks for your reply. It is interesting how similarly I see those things too. Hmmm! So would you mind telling me some of the details of your “revelation.” I had a timely whisper in my ear once and it changed my understanding or should I say, it gave me understanding of something I was searching for.I too was a trinitarian for many years-34 years when I took a serious look at the doctrine. I am still going to a trinitarian church basically because my husband is still a trinitarian. Tonight I am planning on attending their “Missions Conference” and the topic is on the “Jesus of the cults.” So, that should be interesting when I think that the Jesus of the trinity doctrine is not the real deal. I believe He had a beginning by birth of God and not created by God and not always existent. I wonder if the speaker will have a category for the Jesus that I understand?
God bless,
KathiQuote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 23 2009,13:58) Hi and welcome EG,
Folk shift the deckchairs on the Titanic but only one thing is paramount for men.
Get a lifejacket on.
Mt633But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Then
Lk10
41And Jesus answered and said unto her, Martha, Martha, thou art careful and troubled about many things:42But one thing is needful: and Mary hath chosen that good part, which shall not be taken away from her.
I guess it really isn't this simple, is it Nick?
You lead folk astray when you say it is.According to you, one must adhere to certain doctrine and understanding. If they do not, they are not part of the family of God; not considered a brother.
Better be more clear on your expectations for believer's.
Seekingthetruth said:
Quote Jesus is not equal to the Father but He is fully submitted to Him. I have found that this line of thinking brings a harmony to the scriptures. The apostle John said that Jesus made Himself equal with God,
Quote Therefore, the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because he not only broke the sabbath, but also said that God was His own Father, making Himself EQUAL with God (John 5:18) It is the narrator, the apostle John who said that Jesus claimed to be equal with God. If John interpreted Jesus wrongly, then there is no “harmony to the scriptures.”
thinker
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 24 2009,08:09) Hi not3,
Is there more important advice given by Jesus?
Yes! Love your neighbor.How can you love your neighbor when you don't even believe that a co-believer, like Keith, is your brother?
Quote (Not3in1 @ Feb. 23 2009,17:29) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 24 2009,08:09) Hi not3,
Is there more important advice given by Jesus?
Yes! Love your neighbor.How can you love your neighbor when you don't even believe that a co-believer, like Keith, is your brother?
Hi Dear Mandy,
I have a question for you…have you stopped speaking to your neighbor also? I saw on another thread that you have stopped speaking to God. Just curious.Yes, it is important to love our neighbor but even more important to love God with all our heart, and with all our soul, and with all our heart, and with all our mind. Should we love our neighbor more than God? Should we speak to our neighbor but not speak to God?
Mark 12:28-32
28 One of the scribes came and heard them arguing, and recognizing that He had answered them well, asked Him, “What commandment is the foremost of all?” 29 Jesus answered, “The foremost is, 'HEAR, O ISRAEL! THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD; 30 AND YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH.' 31 “The second is this, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.' There is no other commandment greater than these.”
NASULove,
KathiQuote (thethinker @ Feb. 24 2009,04:10) Seekingthetruth said: Quote Jesus is not equal to the Father but He is fully submitted to Him. I have found that this line of thinking brings a harmony to the scriptures. The apostle John said that Jesus made Himself equal with God,
Quote Therefore, the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because he not only broke the sabbath, but also said that God was His own Father, making Himself EQUAL with God (John 5:18) It is the narrator, the apostle John who said that Jesus claimed to be equal with God. If John interpreted Jesus wrongly, then there is no “harmony to the scriptures.”
thinker
Thinker,
Please read the scripture you quoted, Jesus didn't say He was equal to God, the Jews took His statement to mean that is what He was saying.However I have no problem with Jesus now being equal to “God”, as I see “God” as a title that includes the Father's representative, the Son. To be very clear, for the 33+ years He was on earth He was just a man like any of us except without sin. But at no point has the Son ever been or ever will be equal to the Father. I believe that the Father has made Jesus, God, while remaining His God.
My opinion – Wm
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 24 2009,10:59) Hi not3,
Does loving your neighbour bring you entry into the kingdom?
That is a very interesting question, Nick. Hmmmm.Love God. Love your neighbor. All law is fulfilled.
I don't know. What do you think?
Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 24 2009,09:53) Quote (Not3in1 @ Feb. 23 2009,17:29) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 24 2009,08:09) Hi not3,
Is there more important advice given by Jesus?
Yes! Love your neighbor.How can you love your neighbor when you don't even believe that a co-believer, like Keith, is your brother?
Hi Dear Mandy,
I have a question for you…have you stopped speaking to your neighbor also? I saw on another thread that you have stopped speaking to God. Just curious.Yes, it is important to love our neighbor but even more important to love God with all our heart, and with all our soul, and with all our heart, and with all our mind. Should we love our neighbor more than God? Should we speak to our neighbor but not speak to God?
Mark 12:28-32
28 One of the scribes came and heard them arguing, and recognizing that He had answered them well, asked Him, “What commandment is the foremost of all?” 29 Jesus answered, “The foremost is, 'HEAR, O ISRAEL! THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD; 30 AND YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH.' 31 “The second is this, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.' There is no other commandment greater than these.”
NASULove,
Kathi
Sister,Oh, wait. You don't want me to call you “sister”. I forgot, my apologies. I have to remember that you and Nick have qualifications that I must meet first, before I can be considered your family in Christ. My bad.
You have jumped head-first into judgement upon me, haven't you? That's fine, if you've nothing better add.
I never implied that I have stopped loving God, did I? I only said that I have stopped talking to him. Perhaps I am waiting for direction that isn't coming? Perhaps I cannot hear him for some reason? Perhaps a million things other than I do not love him. But go ahead and presume the worst.
Oh, Vanity! We think we know another man's heart – it's amazing to me!
You can keep your scriptures. Show me love instead!
Quote (Not3in1 @ Feb. 24 2009,11:47) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 24 2009,10:59) Hi not3,
Does loving your neighbour bring you entry into the kingdom?
That is a very interesting question, Nick. Hmmmm.Love God. Love your neighbor. All law is fulfilled.
I don't know. What do you think?
Hi not3,
Are you relying on obeying the Law to enter the kingdom?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 24 2009,11:58) Quote (Not3in1 @ Feb. 24 2009,11:47) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 24 2009,10:59) Hi not3,
Does loving your neighbour bring you entry into the kingdom?
That is a very interesting question, Nick. Hmmmm.Love God. Love your neighbor. All law is fulfilled.
I don't know. What do you think?
Hi not3,
Are you relying on obeying the Law to enter the kingdom?
Jesus didn't give us too many commands, did he?
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