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Tim,
Quote Please tell me which actual sentence appalled you?
It was not just one sentence, but many sentences. It was your overall attitude and lack of empathy towards minorities. You never even tried to see through his angry words towards the center of his hurt. He faces real, daily challenges as a minority. You on the other hand now have a degree and a thriving career and no longer are affected by your poor upbringing. As a brother in the Lord, you could have encouraged him through – instead you knocked him down with your patriotic sing-a-long. Other's joined you on the band wagon.Quote My Grandmother was full blooded Miami Indian, whose tribe's property was taken from them by the government, and my father was German. Neither of which was very popular in 1944 America. But nevertheless, we did not consider ourselves minorities, just U.S. citizens.
Yes, and if your grandparents were Indain and your father was German do you know what that makes you? WHITE! Hardly a minority in this country, but good try.Quote You said, “I pray the Lord saves YOU from your bitterness!” At least quote me correctly. My prayer to God for DK was “ I pray that the LORD will help you to come out of your bitterness.
I wasn't quoting you. You were praying that God would help DK to come out of his bitterness. I was praying that God would help YOU to come out of yours.Quote You obviously did not read anything I said Mandy. I never brought up race in a single response. Show it to me if I did. I talked about economic status.
I read your posts twice. You spoke of eco status but you also had plenty of racism jabs. You don't realize it because you are not even aware of what racism is. And no, I won't point them all out to you because I believe it would be a complete and utter waste of my time!Quote You can not judge the empathy in my heart for the truly poor. I spend hours every week donating my time and resources to the Lord’s Locker, a local organization that feeds the poor.
Who said anything about the poor? Unless of course you are saying that minorities are the poor?
Quote Yes Mandy. Those that want to be set apart from the rest of society for whatever reason, are dividing themselves.
When you classify entire groups as disadvantaged simply because of their race or color, you are dividing us all.
This is so typical of a white man who has all the advantages. You may have had to be a scrapper when you were younger, but if you would have applied at Gene's company along with DK who had the same degree as you…..Gene said it himself…..he would have chose you over DK. It still happens today even though you are not willing to believe it. Again, it's your luxury to say to DK – if you just keep your nose clean, take all the opportunties that Good ol' America has to offer – you'll be fine and successful. What a crock of crap! There are real and present conditions that are at work within our societies that keep minorities just out-of-reach of a lot of these so-called “opportunities”. I believe you can even get a BA at the local University on Social Justice. Those degrees were not offered in the too recent past. Why are they needed? Do some research to find out……As DK shared, he has the degrees, he's taken advantage of the opportunities. His nose is clean. He is looking for a better future for his children. He will not be a statistic! And yet, he will still face disadvantages in this country because he is a black man. If you do not see that, then I'm sorry, you do not have enough education on the subject.
I am attending a racial discrimination lecture at the end of this month. I'm positive many topics that we have discussed will be addressed. I would love to share the information with those who are intersted. Most will not be interested though, because, dang-it, they have their reasons for believing the way they do. Either they were poor growing up and they scrapped their way to the top. Or their kids were in a black school, or they know someone……. None of it is as good as putting on the colored skin yourselves! How many white men on this board who have responded to this thread would change places with DK? Huh? How many would want to be a Black man in America? Any volunteers? I didn't think so…..
Quote I am sorry that we are divided.
As long as there are those who believe that racism can be cured by hard work and taking advantage of good ol' American opportunities, there will always be division. It's just not that easy. Perhaps look into getting that BA in Social Justice (or some basic education on the subject of racism) and then we can work together to shorten the chasm between those who have the luxury of seeing no injustice, and those who live with it every day.Tim, we have had a very good cyber-relationship. I appreciate your view and thoughts so much. We have found something that we strongly disagree with one another on, however we agree on a whole lot more. I guess we should focus on those things.
Thanks,
MandyI am a Pakeha living in New Zealand. Pakeha is the Maori word for White Man. Whites are the majority of the population here.
I lived for a couple of years in Colombia however. In that country there are very few Whites and Asians. 80% of the population are Mestizo which is a mixture of European and American Indian and the remainder are American Indian, Afro-american and even some from the Middle East. In the time I was there, I could have counted whites on both my hands (I have 10 fingers) and I think I saw 2 asians.
In Colombia I was a minority of minorities. I was treated differently and sometimes to my favour and sometimes not. Some Colombians do not like whites because they are considered to be American and the USA helped kill Che Quevara and took Panama away from Colombia. Also whites are targets for kidnapping.
I have also lived in other countries where I would have been considered an immigrant.
But in all the places I have been, I have always been me. I am what I am, no matter what the circumstances are.
In the end there is truly only one real division. Righteous and unrighteous. Good and Evil.
Judging by the outward appearance is really deceptive.
If a black, white, yellow, & red man all applied for a job and had the same qualifications and experience, I would choose the one who had a good heart.
Cato, my friend,
I listen to you like I would my father. Don't ask me why. I guess I have an admiration for you that goes beyond just saying you're a good brother in the Lord. I think that you are more open-minded than most here and I am a kindred spirit of that kind of thinking. So I will take what you have said and sleep on it. OK? That is the best I can do right now. For at the moment, I do not believe that I was too harsh. I think Tim speaks out of ignorance to the social complexity of racism. Perhaps you, Tim and WJ are all in the same generation and view any slams agains America as being anti-patriotic? I don't think DK's comments were necessarily anti-American. I really don't. He was ranting, but don't we all? He was saying that America has it's limits to accepting minorities and giving them the same breaks….he would be correct.
Everyone has their stories, as I have said before, everyone knows someone who has beat the odds of discrimination. Even in your long tale of all the minorities in your life the fact still remains that YOU are white! It is not you that will suffer, however your little girls may. As they grow older you may be faced with some of this prejudice and discrimination that I am talking about. I hope you are prepared.
If I sound like I am being superior in this area and talking down to folks like Tim, you would be correct! I don't believe that Tim or other's have given the amount of time and research that I have given on the topic. Their comparisions, and quite frankly some of yours, show me that you lack experience in dealing with the emotional issues that discrimination based on race can cause. Sorry, but that is the way I see it.
Quote I think if Tim told you he was a past drug dealer or criminal you would have been more understanding then his descriptions of his own frustrations and struggles because they were not politically correct.
I'm not sure if I understand what you are trying to say here? We were talking about racism and that has nothing to do with drug dealing or being a criminal. Had Tim suggested that that was his past I would have said that does not relate in any way to being raised a Black American. But perhaps I'm missing the point?This is a no-win topic as far as I can see…….. The education that I have received on racism and related social injustice has added to my lack of tolerance against those who would, perhaps out of ignorance, speak of racism like it was something that the individual minority could just “overcome” if they work hard enough.
OK, thanks for listening.
MandyQuote (t8 @ June 07 2008,14:12) If a black, white, yellow, & red man all applied for a job and had the same qualifications and experience, I would choose the one who had a good heart.
Me – standing – clapping. Giving you respect for your experience and what you have taken from it.Thanks, t8.
MandyQuote (WorshippingJesus @ June 07 2008,10:04) Anyway my son went faithfully out of fear for about 4 months and then stopped again.
Sorry, but I think this is just a shameful story. I don't blame your son for running away and wanting to quit this school. Would you want to go to school if you were constantly ganged up on and forced to protect yourself? Sounds like he was fighting desperately to survive. It doesn't sound like learning was even an option for him. Too bad there were no other options for your son's education?You're lucky that he turned out as well as he did. He could have turned to drugs to ease his pain of rejection and humiliation.
Quote (Not3in1 @ June 07 2008,14:36) Even in your long tale of all the minorities in your life the fact still remains that YOU are white! It is not you that will suffer, however your little girls may. As they grow older you may be faced with some of this prejudice and discrimination that I am talking about. I hope you are prepared.
The tale of minorities in my life were to show that I don't live in isolation nothing more, it is not good or bad, it merely indicates I am not in an ivory tower as I reflect on the subject matter. And for that matter I have already raised two Korean daughters who are now grown women and the prejudice they faced in their younger life did not come from whites but other minorities.
Yet I am White. Hath
not a White eyes? hath not a White hands, organs,
dimensions, senses, affections, passions? fed with
the same food, hurt with the same weapons, subject
to the same diseases, healed by the same means,
warmed and cooled by the same winter and summer, as
a black is? If you ##### us, do we not bleed?
if you tickle us, do we not laugh? if you poison
us, do we not die? and if you wrong us, shall we not
revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will
resemble you in that. (my apologies to the Bard)Does my being White somehow inherently make me unable to understand others? I think that is a horrible view on humanity.
I don't know where you live but DC is not the Old South, if anything it is in my daughters advantage being multiracial, my son likewise views it as an advantage. I may be older, I grew up watching the civil rights marches and changes as a boy, this is a different world now and a different generation growing up. Prejudice works both ways now and I sincerely view it to my childrens advantage not to be purely caucasian in the future. In the not very distant future there will be no majority in the US and we will all be minorities.Cato,
Quote Yet I am White. Hath
not a White eyes? hath not a White hands, organs,
dimensions, senses, affections, passions? fed with
the same food, hurt with the same weapons, subject
to the same diseases, healed by the same means,
warmed and cooled by the same winter and summer, as
a black is? If you ##### us, do we not bleed?
if you tickle us, do we not laugh? if you poison
us, do we not die? and if you wrong us, shall we not
revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will
resemble you in that. (my apologies to the Bard)
Yes, and your white eyes and white organs were never asked to sit at the back of a bus. They never had different drinking fountains and they certainly were not shipped off to different schools. You get my point, I hope.Quote Does my being White somehow inherently make me unable to understand others? I think that is a horrible view on humanity.
This is your opinion and I respect it as such. However being white does not make you unable to understand other's but it certainly goes a long way in your ability to see the world through someone eyes that are non-white.Here is another perspective for you along the same lines: Gweneth Paltrow (an actress) put on a 300 pound fat suit to film one of her movies. She was interviewd about her experiences while wearing this fat suit. The interview made me cry. The reactions and predjudices that affect the overweight population is just horrible. She said no one would look her in the eye. She said that she was never waited on first or even second at a restaurant or make-up counter. The list went on and on. But at the end of the day, she could take the fat suit off, while other's are left to remain in theirs and live life accordinly. According to the publics discriminations…..
You cannot walk a mile in someone else's shoes no matter how hard you try. You cannot know what it is like to be a minority unless you are one. So in that regard, you may be empathetic (or not) but you can never truly understand *first hand* what it is like. This is the point I am trying to get accross. But it is certainly coming against huge rejection from those who want to hang onto the idea that they can relate in some distant way. Not good enough. It would be better to say, “Man, I'm not a minority so I can't know for sure what the challenges are that you face, but I can certainly see that there are some challenges.” Something along those lines.
Quote I sincerely view it to my childrens advantage not to be purely caucasian
And this is your luxury.
However you are not the one that has to check the box under Race that says, “Other”, or worse yet, “Non-white.”. They are improving these forms, but these choices still remain. That in my opinion is a horrible view to take on humanity. To label someone, “Non-white” is so degrating. It happens every day. But you probably have never noticed these options on various forms because you check the very first box that you come to that says, “White”.Quote (Cato @ June 07 2008,15:33) Does my being White somehow inherently make me unable to understand others?
No. That would by definition be a form of racism. Racism often works against white people although that is often not recognised.I have noticed that certain races have been pinned with certain character flaws. Some races are said to commit most of the crimes, others are said to have a controlling attitude and have a history of destroying cultures, still others are said to be cruel. There are stats that might even back some of this up.
Surely the world wrestles with such and there are great divisions among the nations and peoples, but for us, a redeemed black man is a son of God, a redeemed white man is a son of God and a redeemed yellow man is a son of God.
It is written that there is neither male nor female in Christ and surely there is neither Samaritan or Roman.
For us, there is only 2 divisions, 2 kingdoms. All the other stuff is more about worldly concerns.
If we suffer in this world, then know that the son of God suffered too.
Quote (Not3in1 @ June 07 2008,16:13) [/quote]
Yes, and your white eyes and white organs were never asked to sit at the back of a bus. They never had different drinking fountains and they certainly were not shipped off to different schools. You get my point, I hope.
No and neither were you nor Dk unless he is a member of AARP.Were you ever called blue eyed Mother F>>> just walking down the street?
Were you ever told we don't need any more of your kind in management by a federal government official?
Were you ever told that you should be happy the the job you just lost to someone with a third of your experience and a highschool education (I have 5 degrees) because they were a minority female?
Did someone ever hold a knife to your throat threatening you, calling you white devil while telling you the US was going to be destroyed in war (and this on a US military base too)
Well I have, You get my point.
Cato,
I see that you have some life experiences that have helped you form your ideas surrounding racism. I appreciate and respect your experiences.
I cannot say that I have experienced anything even close to what you have, brother. I am sorry you had to go through these times in your life. Certainly it wasn't fair for you to lose your job to a minority female.
I definitely get your point. Thanks for sharing these personal experiences.
MandyQuote (t8 @ June 07 2008,16:34) Quote (Cato @ June 07 2008,15:33) Does my being White somehow inherently make me unable to understand others?
No. That would by definition be a form of racism. Racism often works against white people although that is often not recognised.I have noticed that certain races have been pinned with certain character flaws. Some races are said to commit most of the crimes, others are said to have a controlling attitude and have a history of destroying cultures, still others are said to be cruel. There are stats that might even back some of this up.
Surely the world wrestles with such and there are great divisions among the nations and peoples, but for us, a redeemed black man is a son of God, a redeemed white man is a son of God and a redeemed yellow man is a son of God.
It is written that there is neither male nor female in Christ and surely there is neither Samaritan or Roman.
For us, there is only 2 divisions, 2 kingdoms. All the other stuff is more about worldly concerns.
If we suffer in this world, then know that the son of God suffered too.
Quote (t8 @ June 07 2008,16:34) No. That would by definition be a form of racism. Racism often works against white people although that is often not recognised. Exactly. My son had a suit of color on when he went to the all black school, but somehow that is not the same thing.
He has to be in black skin to understand.
My wife works at a place where 1 in 5 are white and she stands by and watches while others because of color get promoted ahead of her when she was more qualified for the job.
But somehow that is not the same thing because her skin is not black.
I personnally went to an elementary school in the 3rd grade that was predominantly black and for 3 days two black bullies calling me whitey forced me to give them my lunch money or they were gonna beat me up, after the 3rd day I said no, 10-12 of them met me outside after school and gathered in a circle while me and one of the boys fought.
I won. So they didnt bother me again. But as a 7 year old kid in Old Town Alexandria Va (BTW Cato I was born in the Alexandria hospital) there wasnt a day when I had to walk across town to go to school that I did not fear running into some black kids.
But none of this matters because my skin isnt black. I cant possibly understand racism because I have not walked in their shoes.
Cato you are right, if the Lord tarrys there will not be any minorities, and I doubt that it will matter little the way “humans treat humans”.
Quote (Not3in1 @ June 07 2008,16:13) Quote I sincerely view it to my childrens advantage not to be purely caucasian
And this is your luxury.
However you are not the one that has to check the box under Race that says, “Other”, or worse yet, “Non-white.”. They are improving these forms, but these choices still remain. That in my opinion is a horrible view to take on humanity. To label someone, “Non-white” is so degrating. It happens every day. But you probably have never noticed these options on various forms because you check the very first box that you come to that says, “White”.Mandy,
I am the one who checks the box “other” for my daughters.
My son who is old enough to speak for himself has no problem with “other” he laughed when I asked him if he found it degrading. When he applies for college it will serve him better then to be either white or Asian.As for the forms themselves when is the last time you filled out a government form? The ones I deal with are Caucasian not of Hispanic origin, Asian or Pacific Islander, Black or African American not of Hispanic Origin, Hispanic and Other. They are all voluntary no one makes you fill them out.
Thanks however for trying to appreciate my views, we all have our stories. Well the world turns and it changes. As Confucious once said those who would be constant in happiness must be constant in change.
The reason I brought up the checked boxes for race is because we had an adoptee panel speak last month at a lecture. There were several adoptees who were very disturbed by this “non-white” box and the “other” box. To be thought of as a “other” was just too much for these kids. I can appreciate their feelings even though I never have to check such a box. I realize they are voluntary but that doesn't negate the impact that they have on those that they affect.
It is true that my children will have more advantages and chances at scholarships because they are minorities. But there are reasons for that, too. But I'm too tired to go into it and I don't think many are open to hearing the reasons why that might be.
I've learned to embrace change. “Change” is my pal!
To all! Being German born, has had it disadvantage and advantage. Some like whites, some like blacks and some like Germans. So I have come to the conclusions that Americans are divided. Like Timothy it was not easy in the beginning when we first came over from Germany, but if you work hard and we did, you can succeed here and be anything you set your mind to. It is the bitterness that some have to overcome, and some may never will. I do understand that too. But that only hurts themselves more then others. I still have an accent and every time I speak people will ask where are you from? Some even look at me and say nothing, you know what they think. I lost my Father in the War and have never known Him, I could be bitter. There is always a hole there, growing up with a Stepfather was not good. But that too has taught me how to handle our Granddaughter who also is growing up without a Father. He is still alive, but cares less what is happening to Her, rather goes to Jail then pays Child support and now only pays the very minimum to get away with it. She is getting bitter. No Birthday Present, only promises. So what has all of this shown me? We live in Satan's World. Until Jesus returns it will only get worse before it will get better. So my Brethren pray for us all and stay close to God and Jesus Christ.
Peace and Love Irene
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 07 2008,17:29) Quote (t8 @ June 07 2008,16:34) Quote (Cato @ June 07 2008,15:33) Does my being White somehow inherently make me unable to understand others?
No. That would by definition be a form of racism. Racism often works against white people although that is often not recognised.I have noticed that certain races have been pinned with certain character flaws. Some races are said to commit most of the crimes, others are said to have a controlling attitude and have a history of destroying cultures, still others are said to be cruel. There are stats that might even back some of this up.
Surely the world wrestles with such and there are great divisions among the nations and peoples, but for us, a redeemed black man is a son of God, a redeemed white man is a son of God and a redeemed yellow man is a son of God.
It is written that there is neither male nor female in Christ and surely there is neither Samaritan or Roman.
For us, there is only 2 divisions, 2 kingdoms. All the other stuff is more about worldly concerns.
If we suffer in this world, then know that the son of God suffered too.
Quote (t8 @ June 07 2008,16:34) No. That would by definition be a form of racism. Racism often works against white people although that is often not recognised. Exactly. My son had a suit of color on when he went to the all black school, but somehow that is not the same thing.
He has to be in black skin to understand.
My wife works at a place where 1 in 5 are white and she stands by and watches while others because of color get promoted ahead of her when she was more qualified for the job.
But somehow that is not the same thing because her skin is not black.
I personnally went to an elementary school in the 3rd grade that was predominantly black and for 3 days two black bullies calling me whitey forced me to give them my lunch money or they were gonna beat me up, after the 3rd day I said no, 10-12 of them met me outside after school and gathered in a circle while me and one of the boys fought.
I won. So they didnt bother me again. But as a 7 year old kid in Old Town Alexandria Va (BTW Cato I was born in the Alexandria hospital) there wasnt a day when I had to walk across town to go to school that I did not fear running into some black kids.
But none of this matters because my skin isnt black. I cant possibly understand racism because I have not walked in their shoes.
Cato you are right, if the Lord tarrys there will not be any minorities, and I doubt that it will matter little the way “humans treat humans”.
YOur…3 instances of “racism”…while sad…are nothing compared to a lifetime of injustice…WOW…your comparison disgusts and disrespects all who fight EVERYDAY for their rights…
Shame on you for thinking you have walked in our shoes!!!!
I will no longer respond to anything in this post…this post shows me just how aloof and dis-connected people really are…
I want to throw up right now…seriously…
Lets stick to scripture people…sorry i Brought this up
Quote (dirtyknections @ June 08 2008,01:43) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 07 2008,17:29) Quote (t8 @ June 07 2008,16:34) Quote (Cato @ June 07 2008,15:33) Does my being White somehow inherently make me unable to understand others?
No. That would by definition be a form of racism. Racism often works against white people although that is often not recognised.I have noticed that certain races have been pinned with certain character flaws. Some races are said to commit most of the crimes, others are said to have a controlling attitude and have a history of destroying cultures, still others are said to be cruel. There are stats that might even back some of this up.
Surely the world wrestles with such and there are great divisions among the nations and peoples, but for us, a redeemed black man is a son of God, a redeemed white man is a son of God and a redeemed yellow man is a son of God.
It is written that there is neither male nor female in Christ and surely there is neither Samaritan or Roman.
For us, there is only 2 divisions, 2 kingdoms. All the other stuff is more about worldly concerns.
If we suffer in this world, then know that the son of God suffered too.
Quote (t8 @ June 07 2008,16:34) No. That would by definition be a form of racism. Racism often works against white people although that is often not recognised. Exactly. My son had a suit of color on when he went to the all black school, but somehow that is not the same thing.
He has to be in black skin to understand.
My wife works at a place where 1 in 5 are white and she stands by and watches while others because of color get promoted ahead of her when she was more qualified for the job.
But somehow that is not the same thing because her skin is not black.
I personnally went to an elementary school in the 3rd grade that was predominantly black and for 3 days two black bullies calling me whitey forced me to give them my lunch money or they were gonna beat me up, after the 3rd day I said no, 10-12 of them met me outside after school and gathered in a circle while me and one of the boys fought.
I won. So they didnt bother me again. But as a 7 year old kid in Old Town Alexandria Va (BTW Cato I was born in the Alexandria hospital) there wasnt a day when I had to walk across town to go to school that I did not fear running into some black kids.
But none of this matters because my skin isnt black. I cant possibly understand racism because I have not walked in their shoes.
Cato you are right, if the Lord tarrys there will not be any minorities, and I doubt that it will matter little the way “humans treat humans”.
YOur…3 instances of “racism”…while sad…are nothing compared to a lifetime of injustice…WOW…your comparison disgusts and disrespects all who fight EVERYDAY for their rights…
Shame on you for thinking you have walked in our shoes!!!!
I will no longer respond to anything in this post…this post shows me just how aloof and dis-connected people really are…
I want to throw up right now…seriously…
Lets stick to scripture people…sorry i Brought this up
DKShame on you for thinking that the racism committed against me and my family is nothing. You have not walked in mine or Tims or Catos shoes. So does that mean that you do not know what racism is?
So I suppose my sons and my wifes and my feelings are not cut any deeper than a black mans.
We can argue all day about who is persecuted the most.
The point is, racism does'nt have color, but some how you think that your color gets a pass for committing racism.
If you put a black child, and a white child, and a hispanic child and a korean child who have not been taught anything aboiut racism or that there is a difference in the color of their skin, in a room tegether, those kids will play like kids.
So tell me DK, where did all those 6 and 7 and 8 year old black kids that bullied me learn about “Whitey” or White honkey”?
Somehow you think that reverse racism is also a myth. If the pendulam would stop in the middle it would be fine, however I see the pendulam swinging the other way. The white man is more and more hated everyday.
As not3 and Cato has pointed out, their minority children have a better chance at getting entitlements than my grandchildren.
Yea, it is sickening.
Racism has no color DK, and as long as you make it that way it will never go away.
WJ
Mandy,
You said. “It was not just one sentence, but many sentences. It was your overall attitude and lack of empathy towards minorities. You never even tried to see through his angry words towards the center of his hurt.So let me get this straight. There was not a single sentence on it’s own merit that would have shocked and appalled you, but in your opinion my overall attitude was poor showing a lack of empathy for minorities just because I disagreed with a minority. Should I have agreed with him merely because his angry words were the result of hurt? You are insenced at me because I did not agree that his angry words were correct.
You said, ” He faces real, daily challenges as a minority. You on the other hand now have a degree and a thriving career and no longer are affected by your poor upbringing.
Hold on right there. I never said that I had a poor upbringing. My mother was a saint and gave my brother’s and I the absolute best upbringing that she was capable of. We were poor in finances, but rich in nurturing.
As far as the rest of your statement, you obviously have no empathy for any hardships unless they are born by what you perceive as minorities.
And for having a thriving career and no longer affected by childhood problems,
It sounds to me like DK is in the same boat, and yet you think less of me because I wasn’t born black.
Shame on you, where did you learn to discriminate against non minorities.You said, “Yes, and if your grandparents were Indain and your father was German do you know what that makes you? WHITE! Hardly a minority in this country, but good try.
According to the U.S. census bureau, Indians are minorities that are counted as a minority in the census.
But I understand that that doesn’t fit into one of your favorite minority groups.
The actual fact is that minority simply means that there are fewer of your race than whatever the majority race is. You have turned it into something altogether different. Your definition of minority is, three races of non white people who are denied the privileges of the white people in the United States. That is an extremely narrow minded view.You said, “I wasn't quoting you. You were praying that God would help DK to come out of his bitterness. I was praying that God would help YOU to come out of yours.”
I apologize, I misunderstood. Thank you for your prayer for me.
You said, “I read your posts twice. You spoke of eco status but you also had plenty of racism jabs. You don't realize it because you are not even aware of what racism is. And no, I won't point them all out to you because I believe it would be a complete and utter waste of my time!
Give me a break Mandy. You won’t point them out because they were not there. My entire post was about being poor. It was DK and you who brought race and minorities into the discussion by inferring that only the minorities are poor because of discrimination, as if the only poor who suffered were the ones who were born non white.
Mandy it is you who seem to not be aware of what racism is.
Racism, by its simplest definition, is discrimination based on a racial group. You have been exhibiting extreme discrimination against the white group as a whole.You said, “This is so typical of a white man who has all the advantages.”
There you go again, classifying all white men in the same category. I had all of the advantages? you could have fooled me. I was afforded the same opportunities as any person in this country today.
You said, “ Again, it's your luxury to say to DK – if you just keep your nose clean, take all the opportunties that Good ol' America has to offer – you'll be fine and successful. What a crock of crap!”
What a crock of crap? Talk about contradictions. Apparently DK took my “hypothetical advice” and succeeded. Praise God! Remember, you said “As DK shared, he has the degrees, he's taken advantage of the opportunities. His nose is clean. He is looking for a better future for his children. He will not be a statistic!” How did that happen if he did not have the opportunity.
You said, “And yet, he will still face disadvantages in this country because he is a black man. If you do not see that, then I'm sorry, you do not have enough education on the subject.”
That is the third time in this thread that either you or DK has remarked about my ignorance, or need to be educated. I see now, any one who disagrees with you are simply ignorant. That makes it easy doesn't it?
I actually think it is you who have been insulated somehow from the real world as it exists today. You are continuing to live in the past and to act like nothing has changed in the last 50 years. You still think that DK had to sit in the back of the bus.
For the last 25 years in real corporate life the minorities have enjoyed advantages that far outweigh those of the non minorities. I personally know dozens of white engineers who were passed over on promotions that they may have been more qualified for so that minority quotas could be attained. We had both a woman and a Black man in the running for president of these United States. Shame on you for belittling how far this country has come. You have apparently lived a life free of the corporate world. In your mind is discrimination good as long as it is reverse discrimination? Perhaps you need to get educated.You said, “None of it is as good as putting on the colored skin yourselves! How many white men on this board who have responded to this thread would change places with DK? Huh? How many would want to be a Black man in America? Any volunteers? I didn't think so…..”
Good gracious, are you ever so judgemental against white men. You ask a question and then answer it from your own warped point of view.
If I were to live my life over again I have had no particular reason to want to change anything in my life. I have been content with whatever God has thrown my way and by the same token I am reasonably certain that I would have been just as content with whatever skin color He decided to give me. You on the other hand denigrade blacks with every word out of your mouth that makes them so completely different than other humans.You said’ “As long as there are those who believe that racism can be cured by hard work and taking advantage of good ol' American opportunities, there will always be division. It's just not that easy. Perhaps look into getting that BA in Social Justice (or some basic education on the subject of racism) and then we can work together to shorten the chasm between those who have the luxury of seeing no injustice, and those who live with it every day.
I give up. I give up! I never once said, nor did anyone else here say, that racism would be cured by anything. I said that the economic plight of the minorities could be improved because of the opportunities created in this country. A valid point that both you and DK chose to deny.
You have made this entire thing about racism. You are fixated on racism. Has your mind gone completely blank to everything except racism?
You should take your own advice and learn what racism is. It is not one way as you like to theorize. Racism exists all over the world. There are Whites who discriminate against Blacks, there are blacks who who discriminate against Mexicans, there are whites who live in Great Brittain who discriminate against Arabs there are even Blacks who discriminate against Whites, gasp, You are unable to remove your minority blinders and see that discrimination exists among all races. Racism will not be cured until races stop fighting among themselves.
I think that anyone who continues to pit one race against another as you are doing,
Only exacerbates the problem. But I doubt that racism will go away until Jesus returns.I am fairly sure that this was a complete was
te of my time. You appear unwilling to listen to reason. I saw the same personal attacks from you on David simply because he questioned DK.
I have no reason to believe you will even read what I write with an open mind. Your mind is made up and you have twisted everything that I said into your personal racial argument.Sigh,
Tim
Tim,
This is a no win situation we are all in. It's no use to keep it going. Only more finger pointing, more hurt, and more confusion will be the result. I'm terribly sorry for the hurt that was caused to all of us through this discussion. I guess we should dust ourselves off and move on? Nothing will be resolved here.
Now I am encouraged by t8 who brings us back to what we should be thinging about…….if we have suffered, so has Christ.
Mandy
Mandy you said, “and they certainly were not shipped off to different schools. You get my point, I hope.”
I bought a house directly across the street from the grade school that I wanted my children to attend. This would make it very easy for me to stay intimately involved in their schooling.
Because of desegregation, the same reason that Blacks were shipped off to different schools,
my children got bussed five miles away from my house to different schools. You get my point I hope.
You have been great at only seeing one side of a problem and then blaming everyone else of having that fault.
Just because you have had some classroom schooling about racism, you think that you are the only one that understands it.
The people that have lived it in real life, regardless of their color, know nothing.Tim
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