Paul, james, peter and jude are convicted

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 11 2009,18:10)

Hi BD, All false religion is of the god of this world.

When is religion false?

[bodhitharta]

Quote (thethinker @ July 11 2009,19:09)

bodhitharta said: Quote Sending someone away is not disowning them. God sent Jesus away and Jesus even said according to scripture My GOD, My God why has thou forsaken me? According to you Jesus is God so why say My God, My God, Why has thou forsaken me? Hagar thought she was being forsaken too until God told her otherwise. Of course the middle east today has to do with scripture. bd, Did you not read the context? I gave it for you. Sarah told Abraham to “cast out” the bondwoman and her son and God interjected and told Abraham to listen to Sarah. Abraham got up early the following morning and sent them away. Are you saying that Abraham disobeyed God? Then God told Abraham to offer up his ONLY son. This proves that God did not recognize Ishmael as a covenant child of Abraham after that. This means that He was NOT the God of Ishmael. You are in denial. Your Allah is NOT the God of the scriptures. The Middle East today has absolutely nothing to do with the scriptures. thinker

You are not understanding the scriptuures at all because God had already mede the promise to Abraham regarding Ishmael and plus Ishmael had already gotten circumcised the same day that Abraham was circumcised, God said that it was an EVERLASTING COVENANT so when exactly did this EVERLASTING COVENANT end?

Now I am not saying that others in the future had to accept the Covenant of Circumcision but those who entered that Covenant are not allowed to break it, it is EVERLASTING. Jesus was circumcised and all Jews and Arabs get circumcised if the gentiles don't get circumcised they are simply not entering the covenant but for a certainty Ishmael was Circumcised and entered an EVERLASTING COVENANT with God.

According to you Jesus is God so your belief would mean that Jesus being God made the covenant of Circumcision with Ishmael and then according to your belief that Jesus is God when Jesus was born he even was circumcised to show that the EVERLASTING COVENANT was still an EVERLASTING COVENANT otherwise the Angel Gabriel would have siad Mary do not circumcise the boy for that covenant has ended but that's not what happened.

Even Paul circumcised Timothy

Acts 16

1 Then he came to Derbe and Lystra. And behold, a certain disciple was there, named Timothy, the son of a certain Jewish woman who believed, but his father was Greek. 2 He was well spoken of by the brethren who were at Lystra and Iconium. 3 Paul wanted to have him go on with him. And he took him and circumcised him because of the Jews who were in that region, for they all knew that his father was Greek.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (thethinker @ July 12 2009,04:10)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 11 2009,19:34) Hi TT, So You think Jesus, the MONOGENES Son of God is God's ONLY SON? Few will agree and scripture certainly does not[eg Jb38] The one who denies that Jesus is monogenes is condemned. Quote He that does not believe is condemned already because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten (monogenes) Son of God (John 5:24) thinker

You really don't understand scripture that well in John 5:24 Jesus is not saying they must believe that he is the only begotten son, he is saying they must believe he was sent by God.

Also in regards to Isaac and Ishmael if you have two sons and one leave you have “Only” one left.

[NickHassan]

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 12 2009,05:15)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 11 2009,18:10) Hi BD, All false religion is of the god of this world. When is religion false?

Hi BD,
When it is of man.
God builds the bridge.

[KangarooJack]

bodhitharta said:

Quote

You are not understanding the scriptuures at all because God had already mede the promise to Abraham regarding Ishmael and plus Ishmael had already gotten circumcised the same day that Abraham was circumcised, God said that it was an EVERLASTING COVENANT so when exactly did this EVERLASTING COVENANT end?

bd,
First, the Hebrew “olam” literally means “to the age.” It does NOT mean “everlasting.” Second, those who broke the covenant could be cast out and cut off from the people. Ishmael scoffed at Isaac and Sarah asked Abraham to repudiate him. Abraham was hesitant and then God interjected and told him to do what Sarah had said. In Galatians 4 Paul said that Sarah's word was “Scripture.”

So Abraham disowned Ishmael and his mother and sent them away. God did not recognize Ishmael after that. God said that Isaac was Abraham's “ONLY son.” Your treatment of the word “olam” is erroneous. The word “olam” is used of the rite of circumcision also. God said that it was to be an ordinance “to the age.” If it meant “everlasting” then circumcision would still have meaning today. But the apostles abolished circumcision at the council of Jerusalem and Paul said that it is meaningless. You don't have a leg to stand on.

Quote

I am the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob

thinker

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 12 2009,06:06)

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 12 2009,05:15) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 11 2009,18:10) Hi BD, All false religion is of the god of this world. When is religion false? Hi BD, When it is of man. God builds the bridge.

What is religion? According to God.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (thethinker @ July 12 2009,06:21)

bodhitharta said: Quote You are not understanding the scriptuures at all because God had already mede the promise to Abraham regarding Ishmael and plus Ishmael had already gotten circumcised the same day that Abraham was circumcised, God said that it was an EVERLASTING COVENANT so when exactly did this EVERLASTING COVENANT end? bd, First, the Hebrew “olam” literally means “to the age.” It does NOT mean “everlasting.” Second, those who broke the covenant could be cast out and cut off from the people. Ishmael scoffed at Isaac and Sarah asked Abraham to repudiate him. Abraham was hesitant and then God interjected and told him to do what Sarah had said. In Galatians 4 Paul said that Sarah's word was “Scripture.” So Abraham disowned Ishmael and his mother and sent them away. God did not recognize Ishmael after that. God said that Isaac was Abraham's “ONLY son.” Your treatment of the word “olam” is erroneous. The word “olam” is used of the rite of circumcision also. God said that it was to be an ordinance “to the age.” If it meant “everlasting” then circumcision would still have meaning today. But the apostles abolished circumcision at the council of Jerusalem and Paul said that it is meaningless. You don't have a leg to stand on. Quote I am the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob thinker

Then why did Paul circumcise Timothy?

In the ancient Hebrew words that are used to described distance and direction are also used to describe time. The Hebrew word for east is qedem and literally means “the direction of the rising sun”. We use north as our major orientation such as in maps which are always oriented to the north. While we use the north as our major direction the Hebrews used the east and all directions are oriented to this direction. For example one of the words for south is teyman from the root yaman meaning “to the right”. The word qedem is also the word for the past. In the ancient Hebrew mind the past is in front of you while the future is behind you, the opposite way we think of the past and future. The Hebrew word olam means in the far distance. When looking off in the far distance it is difficult to make out any details and what is beyond that horizon cannot be seen. This concept is the olam. The word olam is also used for time for the distant past or the distant future as a time that is difficult to know or perceive. This word is frequently translated as eternity or forever but in the English language it is misunderstood to mean a continual span of time that never ends. In the Hebrew mind it is simply what is at or beyond the horizon, a very distant time. A common phrase in the Hebrew is “l'olam va'ed” and is usually translated as “forever and ever” but in the Hebrew it means “to the distant horizon and again” meaning “a very distant time and even further” and is used to express the idea of a very ancient or future time.

http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/27_eternity.html

So in other words the word elom means for the forseeable future and guess what God sees all the forseeable future and Circumcision stands

Also about the plurality of God, not according to ancient Hebrew usage

There are two Hebrew words commonly translated as God, el and elo'ah. When reading the Bible it is better to have an Ancient Hebrew perception of God rather than our modern western view. The word el was originally written with two pictographic letters, one being an ox head and the other a shepherd staff. The ox represented strength and the staff of the shepherd represented authority. First, the Ancient Hebrews saw God as the strong one of authority. The shepherd staff was also understood as a staff on the shoulders, a yoke. Secondly, the Ancient Hebrews saw God as the ox in the yoke. When plowing a field two oxen were placed in a yoke, one was the older and more experienced and the other the younger and less experienced and the younger would learn from the older. The Hebrews saw God as the older experienced ox and they as the younger who learns from him. The plural form of elo'ah is elohiym and is often translated as God. While English plurals only identify quantity, as in more than one, the Hebrew plural can identify quantity as well as quality. Something that is of great size or stature can be written in the plural form and in this case, God, as the great strength and authority is frequently written in the plural form elohiym. The two letters in these Hebrew words are the ox head representing strength and the shepherd staff representing authority. Combined they mean “the strong authority” as well as “the ox with a staff” (a yoke is understood as a staff on the shoulders).

http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/27_god.html

Awesome website

[NickHassan]

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 12 2009,06:26)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 12 2009,06:06) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 12 2009,05:15) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 11 2009,18:10) Hi BD, All false religion is of the god of this world. When is religion false? Hi BD, When it is of man. God builds the bridge. What is religion? According to God.

Hi BD,
James can help you there.

But seek first the kingdom of God and everything else will be added to you.

Then your work will be done in God and useful to you.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 12 2009,07:12)

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 12 2009,06:26) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 12 2009,06:06) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 12 2009,05:15) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 11 2009,18:10) Hi BD, All false religion is of the god of this world. When is religion false? Hi BD, When it is of man. God builds the bridge. What is religion? According to God. Hi BD, James can help you there. But seek first the kingdom of God and everything else will be added to you. Then your work will be done in God and useful to you.

If you believe what James wrote and that is what I do, how then can my religion be false?

[NickHassan]

Hi BD,
You think that doing good works will save you?
You want the Jewish law without being a Jew?

Do you also think woman outside of Christ can be saved through childbearing?[1tim2]

Nothing is necessarily useful in itself outside of the kingdom

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 12 2009,08:05)

Hi BD, You think that doing good works will save you? You want the Jewish law without being a Jew? Do you also think woman outside of Christ can be saved through childbearing?[1tim2] Nothing is necessarily useful in itself outside of the kingdom

Of course doing good will save anyone.

Believing in God and doing what God has said is good to do, including believeing in all the prohets known and unknown.

You will not have salvation simply Idolizing Jesus that is for sure.

[NickHassan]

Hi BD,
That is a very popular idea.
So is santa claus.

But Jesus is the way of salvation appointed by God[jn3]
It is the decision point for men concerning salvation.[jn3]

[KangarooJack]

bodhitharta said:

Quote

Then why did Paul circumcise Timothy?

What? Do you not read narratives in context? It clearly says that Paul circumcised Timothy because of the Jews. It was not binding. Circumcision as a requirement had just been done away in the Council. Come on! Paul circumcised Timothy to avoid opposition from the Jews. I will eventually lose all respect for you if you continue to misrepresent the scriptures this way. I expect a good measure of honesty from you. Please!

bodhitharta said:

Quote

The Hebrew word olam means in the far distance. When looking off in the far distance it is difficult to make out any details and what is beyond that horizon cannot be seen. This concept is the olam. The word olam is also used for time for the distant past or the distant future as a time that is difficult to know or perceive. This word is frequently translated as eternity or forever but in the English language it is misunderstood to mean a continual span of time that never ends. In the Hebrew mind it is simply what is at or beyond the horizon, a very distant time.

Exactly! Olam does NOT mean “forever.” There was an END in view. Thank you!  

You did not answer my point that a person could be cut off from the covenant. Ishmael was cut off from the covenant. “Take Isaac your ONLY son….”

Quote

I am the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob

Jehovah was the God of Isaac and NOT of Ishmael. Therefore, your Allah is an idol. You serve two gods. You serve Allah who is the God of Ishmael and Jehovah who is not.

thinker

[bodhitharta]

Quote (thethinker @ July 12 2009,09:09)

bodhitharta said: Quote Then why did Paul circumcise Timothy? What? Do you not read narratives in context? It clearly says that Paul circumcised Timothy because of the Jews. It was not binding. Circumcision as a requirement had just been done away in the Council. Come on! Paul circumcised Timothy to avoid opposition from the Jews. I will eventually lose all respect for you if you continue to misrepresent the scriptures this way. I expect a good measure of honesty from you. Please! bodhitharta said: Quote The Hebrew word olam means in the far distance. When looking off in the far distance it is difficult to make out any details and what is beyond that horizon cannot be seen. This concept is the olam. The word olam is also used for time for the distant past or the distant future as a time that is difficult to know or perceive. This word is frequently translated as eternity or forever but in the English language it is misunderstood to mean a continual span of time that never ends. In the Hebrew mind it is simply what is at or beyond the horizon, a very distant time. Exactly! Olam does NOT mean “forever.” There was an END in view. Thank you!   You did not answer my point that a person could be cut off from the covenant. Ishmael was cut off from the covenant. “Take Isaac your ONLY son….” Quote I am the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob Jehovah was the God of Isaac and NOT of Ishmael. Therefore, your Allah is an idol. You serve two gods. You serve Allah who is the God of Ishmael and Jehovah who is not. thinker

The Fact is he circumcised Timothy and didn't have to(Who would know?) they don't check.

When God uses olam it means as Far as He can see and that would mean without end.

The Covenant was already established and Abraham had already taught Ishmael who God was and when Abraham died and was buried Ishmael and Isaac buried him together which would not be possible if Ishmael was cut off from the covenant.

God promised Abraham that he would bless Ishmael and that Ishmael would live before God. The scripture even says that God was with Ishmael. What God was with Ishmael according to the scriptures?

BE HONEST!

[NickHassan]

Hi BD,
Paul like his master only did what god told him to do.
Do you judge God for these decisions?

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 12 2009,14:17)

Hi BD, Paul like his master only did what god told him to do. Do you judge God for these decisions?

Can a man Judge God?

Also, do you belive that God told Paul to lie? Not even Paul suggests that he said when does wrong it is the sin in him, not God.

would you defend what is knowingly wrong to protect what you believe? Would you rather say God told someone to lie than to say I don't know why he lied?

[KangarooJack]

bodhitharta said:

Quote

When God uses olam it means as Far as He can see and that would mean without end.

Wrong! The word “olam” is used in reference to Christ's rule over the house of Jacob. But Paul said “then comes the end when He shall have delivered up the kingdom to the Father.”

You are blatantly denying that Sarah asked Abraham to cast out Ishmael and God told Abraham to do what Sarah said and he did it. You blatantly deny that God called Isaac Abraham's “ONLY son” after that. You blatantly deny that God said that He was the God of Isaac (not Ishmael).

thinker

[NickHassan]

Hi BD,
Paul is a man of God.
You cannot judge such men as you are yet blinded by the god of this world.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (thethinker @ July 12 2009,20:44)

bodhitharta said: Quote When God uses olam it means as Far as He can see and that would mean without end. Wrong! The word “olam” is used in reference to Christ's rule over the house of Jacob. But Paul said “then comes the end when He shall have delivered up the kingdom to the Father.” You are blatantly denying that Sarah asked Abraham to cast out Ishmael and God told Abraham to do what Sarah said and he did it. You blatantly deny that God called Isaac Abraham's “ONLY son” after that. You blatantly deny that God said that He was the God of Isaac (not Ishmael). thinker

Why does the scripture say that God was with Ishmael?

In-fact if God is not the God of Ishmael then why didn't He let Hagar and Ishmael die in the desert? God helped them and once again promised blessings to Ishmael.

BOOM! BOOM! BOOM!

BTW, So you don't believe that God is the Everlasting God?

The same word olam is used in reference to God also.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 12 2009,20:48)

Hi BD, Paul is a man of God. You cannot judge such men as you are yet blinded by the god of this world.

Nick,

Nick you are judging me and I have only showed you what is in the scriptures. Wouldn't Paul's own words be judging him? You love personalities more than you care for the truth.

Moses killed a man, David commited Adultery are you going to blame me for what they did too?

You can't just read what you like you have to learn what is written and gain understanding from it.

[Author]

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