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Time to revisit this material, with the repackaging of the site. I think it has all been refuted before.
Question 2: What does the Bible say about people who don't believe in God?
The link leads to a page with the title “Proof that god exists”. Of course there is no proof of any gods presented on the page.
Quote In (Psalms 14:1) it says: “The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God…” In other words he who disbelieves this truth is spoken of as one devoid of understanding and the word 'fool' also has connotations to the words morally corrupt. Some people think that God is nothing but a fable or farytale, when others consider no God to be the farytale. Of course I will be arguing for the second stance because belief in a complex universe with no designer is absolute foolishness. E.g. Only a fool would say that a 747 airplane could come about by a tornado blowing through a refuse yard that contained the parts to the airplane, or a camera came about by blind chance. Only a fool would believe that a web site could create itself in cyberspace without the intervention of a programmer, even though all the ingredients exist there.
Maybe only a fool would be duped by the logical fallacy of composition. Just because some objects are designed and manufactured it does not mean that all objects are designed and manufactured. This is base level nonsense.Quote Yet many so called intelligent people believe that the universe came about by pure chance. This of course has to include the galaxies, solar systems, suns, planets and the micro world of atoms, protons, electrons, quarks etc. Then we also have to consider the dimensions, 1, 2, 3, 4 and so on, plus all the natural laws, anti matter, dark matter and the code that make up the fabric of the physical realm. Now the human mind cannot even conceive of the scale of the universe, never mind thinking at such wonderful design came about by luck. To believe that all this plus much more, came about without a God/designer/programer is absolutely pathetic. This belief is worse than a fable or farytale, it is the most extreme form of ignorance possible.
Indeed so-called intelligent people do think this, and they have a large amount of evidence to support their beliefs. The god mentioned in this paragraph is an assertion, supported by no evidence whatsoever.Quote People who do not believe in God, also believe that the wonderful and technological human eye was not designed by God, rather such design came about because creatures without eyes had a less chance of survival. Yet when we see a man made camera we all know without a doubt that it was designed and built by someone. Did a camera come about by evolutionary processes because of the need for people to take photos, no it was created by intelligence for that need. However the truth is that the human eye and the human camera both use the same technology to turn light into an image, that can be understood. If you believe that a camera is always created by a designer (and so you should), then why is it so hard to believe that there was a creator for the human eye. If you don't attribute the wonderful technology of the human eye to a Creator, then what you are really saying is you believe that nothing or blind chance did a much better job with this technology than intelligent beings ?
Darwin discussed the eye in Origin of the Species, describing it as the apparently impossible result of tiny incremental steps over a long period of time. It turns out that animals around the world possess a range of different kinds of eyes, corresponding to each development in exactly the kind of sequence that Darwin was talking about. You don’t even have to look in the fossil record, you could line up living animals and show an evolutionary development route for modern eyes. Is this the Judeo-christian god mocking the author of this page, or is it the traces of natural selection at work?Quote Humans who by possessing intellect can not only increase the odds in their favor of such design to come about, but actually make it possible at all.
Huh?Quote So how can nothing create something better than so called intelligent beings. To not believe in a creator is illogical and this is but one small example of Mans incredible foolishness. It is not hard to imagine the countless more examples of mans foolishness that exist. The question is, are you wise enough to accept obvious truth, or do you want to be blinded to the obvious by reason of your intellectual pride.
Fortunately real science is not dependent on the deficiencies of personality traits. It is based on making conclusions based on evidence.Quote If you saw 20 apples on the ground and positioned to form a perfect circle on flat ground, you would automatically assume that these apples were placed there by somebody. What if I told you that there was a hole in my bag of apples, and when they fell out they formed a perfect circle by chance or the more accurately the elements that were in process at the time, such as wind, gravity and the angle that the apples fell out of the bag created this circle of apples. Would you not say that I was mad if I told you that they just fell out that way. Then how is it that some say the complex universe came about by chance. (I think I am being very extremely generous in my examples in a statistical sense).
I think you are being very careless in your analogy t8. Indeed exactly this kind of thing does happen, and yet you are inviting people to call it madness. An example would be the formation of a crystal, in which blind, non-directional electrostatic forces akin to gravity in your example cause the formation of a perfectly distributed salt crystal lattice from randomly mixed ions. Are crystals madness to suggest?Quote Such people who believe that the universe itself, formed the earth, other planets, stars and galaxies, in fact the whole universe including the atomic world may be fools, but they are also ignoring the fact that the ingredients had to come from somewhere in the first place, which only makes the odds much greater. The only alternative to chance is constructive design and enlightened people understand that where there is design, there is always a designer.
But you cannot say how the designer made matter, while real scientists can say how the matter formed spontaneously. So which position is the more ‘foolish’?Quote One
of the most blinding philosophies today is the Theory of Evolution, a so called modern science. It is a theory because it lacks any proof that would change it to fact.
No, actually it is a fact (evolution) explained by a proper scientific theory (natural selection, a theory that is now so well established that it would be perverse to deny it, and indeed no creationist has ever disproved it). This is another base-level mistake: the word theory does not mean ‘hunch’, it means ‘best explanation we have’. On the other hand, godddidit explains nothing at all.Quote Evolution's lack of absolute proof makes it just another religion and it actually requires a degree of blind belief because contrary to what many think, there is no evidence that the universe came about by evolutionary processes.
You cannot prove anything in science. That would be the logical fallacy of the strawman. This statement can’t even tell the difference between biological evolution (which was the subject of the previous part) and the development of the universe. Does the author realise there is a difference, or is he a Gaia nut on a universal scale?Quote Yet the proof of a master designer of the universe is all around us, its actually obvious. The theory of Evolution may explain some of the processes or laws that God used to create, but the concept that these processes happened without a designer is seriously flawed.
Science does not have regard for that which appears to be obvious to religious fundamentalists. The designer is an assertion only. No evidence (let alone the ‘proof’ promised in the title!) has been presented for one, just assertion, personal incredulity and character assassination.Quote The religion of Evolution is a very popular world wide religion that has many followers.
Evolution by natural selection is not a religion by the definition in the Oxford Concise Dictionary, and in fact any dictionary I have ever consulted.Quote In fact evolution is one of the biggest belief systems in the world today and this theory is very popular,
Yes it is, amongst professional scientists (ie people who might be expected to know something about it) only 4% do not believe it. It is virtually zero amongst professional biologists. That 4% is almost entirely made up of religious fundamentalists whose area of expertise has little to do with biology.Quote more because it suits many to believe there is no God rather than compelling evidence of design in nature and creation.
This sentence, including the previous part of it, makes no sense.Quote Most people don't question something if it is taught as a fact and if people treat Evolution this way,
Evolution is a fact. How else should it be taught?Quote then those who are not interested in truth can easily be ensnared by this doctrine. Yes the scriptures are correct when they say that this world is under deception,
How could you possibly confirm that? It is a paradox.Quote and the proof that there is a God is all around you. If you deny constructive design in creation, you are like the fish who says, what is water. The evidence is all around you and that may lead you to take it for granted to the point of ignoring it or even denying its existence.
What IS the proof that is “all around you”? What actually is it about our surroundings that is unambiguous evidence for a god? Is it proof or is it evidence? There is an important difference.Just as the new testament does not say what ‘ungodly’ means, this page contains NOT ONE piece of evidence that is inexplicable without a supernatural being.
Quote The scriptures are quite clear that all deceptions come from the the Father of Lies, who is none other than Satan or otherwise known as the Devil (God's adversary). Jesus said of himself “I am the Truth” and his mission was to not only destroy the works of the Devil, but to more importantly teach us about God himself. So I want to ask you a question. Who do you believe ?
Sounds like the author does not want to believe the verses of the Judeo-christian book of mythology that describe the ways in which its god deceives.Quote Can you see that this world is in darkness. Jesus said I am the “Light of the World”.
We all know that light shines through darkness and yet darkness cannot overcome light as darkness is the lack of light. In the same way truth shines through lies & deception, and wisdom overcomes folly.
Get wise my friend and align yourself with the truth.
Turn from your evil ways, come out of the darkness and come into Gods glorious light. Truth is eternal but lies are temporary. Align your life with the truth and God will gift you with eternal life. Do not be deceived. The Devil came to rob kill and destroy. But Jesus came that you may eternal life in all it's abundance.
No proofs or evidence there…Quote Lets imagine for a moment that we humans created Artificial Intelligence (AI) so sophisticated that it actually became self aware and started on a quest to learn as much knowledge as possible. Imagine if this 'AI' concluded that it wasn't created because in cyberspace there was nothing smarter than itself and it couldn't for obvious reasons see its creator or the realm in which the creator inhabits. Let's also imagine that this 'AI' just assumed that cyberspace came about by itself even with the understanding that the 'AI' could see the code that made up Cyberspace. What would the programmer of this artificial intelligence think. Would he not laugh at the conclusion that this created mind came to, especially considering that all things in the 'AI's world would have to have been made by someone much smarter than himself. Well guess what, God laughs at mans wisdom in
the same way as it is foolishness to him.
No evidence there either…God has decreed that the Just shall live by faith. If you try to work it all out using your own mind you will fail miserably. Remember that you live inside a body that locks us into 3 or 4 dimensions. What about all the higher dimensions. The higher the dimension, the greater that dimension, and as you step up a dimension, you get a view of all the dimensions below. e.g. from the third dimension you can see the first two, but from the first two you cannot see the third. Einstein said that the 4th dimension was Time and Space and other scientists say that there are many dimensions. It is just plain ignorance to say that there is no God, when you are so limited in every way.[/quote]
Nope, nothing there…Quote Now here is the difference between someone who believes in a creator and someone who doesn't. In this hypothesis, both these people will describe the existence of a cake, just so we can bring it all down to a level we can understand: The person who doesn't believe in a creator explains the existence of a cake like this. It all started when there was just flour, baking powder, water, egg, sugar, butter. Over a long period time given a very small chance, the butter and sugar were whisked by gravitational forces that attracted smaller elements including baking powder, flour and egg. The chances of this happening was minute, but there was a lot of time for this coincidence to happen. Eventually the mixed up elements were exposed to a furnace that literally cooked these ingredients at 180° Celsius for about 20 minutes. Now if you try to argue with me then I can give you mathematical equations and theories to prove this, and you should just assume that I am right as this theory was wrought from many experiments and by many people who are probably out of your intellectual depth.
Now here is the explanation of the existence of the same cake explained by someone who believes that it was made by someone.
The cake was baked by someone who made it perhaps so it could be eaten. He/She mixed all the ingredients together and then cooked it in an oven.
Nor there…Quote Both explanations are similar, but the first explanation tries to explain how the cake was made, while the second one asks who made it and why. In a sense, science is not interested in who, but rather how.
No actually science would be very interested in ‘who’ if all the difference ‘who’s could be shown to actually exist.Quote My point is, that science at best, is an inadequate field for finding the meaning of life,
It doesn’t claim to do that, and you are assuming that it is a question worth asking. Actually no religion can tell you the ‘meaning of life’ either. The one thing christianity might really claim to have some kind of monopoly on, and it turns out to have no answer to a question that has no meaning itself. What is christianity for, if it fails its own claim?Quote but rather it serves as a way of explaining how certain things could have come into existence. Of course faith doesn't rule out science it just puts it into perspective.
Science doesn’t rule out Imaginary Friends, it just puts them into the perspective of what the human brain habitually does with what it imagines to be patterns, and the brain’s complex changes from childhood to maturity.Quote In fact science as we know it, actually originated from the Church as an investigation into the way God created things. It however took its own course by ungodly and blind people and has been used to try and disprove God, which has failed miserably I might add.
You mean the scientists, notably Darwin, discovered that the church’s truth claims were bluffs. Science has never claimed to disprove god. That would be a lie.Quote So does this mean intelligent people cannot know God. Of course not. Galileo, Leonardo DaVinci, Albert Einstein and even Stephen Hawking believe in God and many other thinking people.
More lies.Quote To conclude, I would have to say that to believe in God doesn't require intelligence, but rather wisdom. You could be the most intelligent person alive and not believe in God. You could also be intellectually challenged and have no doubts about the existence of God. In other words, you could have an exceptionally high IQ and be a fool, or you could be below average in intelligence and be one of the wisest people who ever lived. If believing in God required certain intellectual prowess, then it would be unfair because only those who were blessed with a certain IQ could know God. But God has given enough proof of himself in creation for everyone to see, even children.
But you are not going to ACTUALLY TELL US what that ‘proof’ is, right?Quote Get wise and put your trust in God, not yourself.
What god?Stuart
https://heavennet.net/answers/ if you were wondering.
Nice one Stu. You posted it in the right forum.
As for the post… well, I might read it. I suspect however that I have read this all before from you, in which case, you have nothing new or compelling to offer and it wouldn't be worth my time revisiting.
Is there anything new in it from you, or the same old same old?
Quote (t8 @ Feb. 15 2010,22:00) Nice one Stu. You posted it in the right forum. As for the post… well, I might read it. I suspect however that I have read this all before from you, in which case, you have nothing new or compelling to offer and it wouldn't be worth my time revisiting.
Is there anything new in it from you, or the same old same old?
No, I imagine it is all the same old compelling stuff.Stuart
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