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The Roman Emperor Constantine, the creator of the Christian Religion instituted Easter, Christmas, the Trinity Doctrine and dictated what books went into the bible.
Constantine was the Emperor of the Western Roman Empire and the Roman Empire is actually one of the Heads of the Beast in Revelation.
Some Christians believe that the Woman who rides on the Beast in Revelation 17, is actually the Christian Religion which is the merger of Rome and the Church, the creation of a harlot system or compromise between the truth and the world. It could be said if this scenario were true that the Roman Catholic Church even bears this truth in her name and is known even to this day as the city of seven hills. This system is said to have made the whole world drunk on her wine.
Whether this is true or not, if we are truly seeking truth, we will question why Christendom says the books in the blible are the only scripture. Other books like the Shepherd of Hermas or the Book of Enoch were not included based on Constantines decision.
Most of Christianity today doesn't question such things and the suspicious circumstances that a lot of the traditions and doctrines came about, but if we really know Jesus we will always be seeking truth, because Jesus is the Truth. We should question all things that we believe in order to not only know what we believe but to guard against deception. We do not want to end up being one of the people mentioned in Matthew 7:23
Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'So I would like to hear your opinion, are the books in the bible the only scripture ? If yes, Why ? If no, then what books do you consider to be scripture and why? Or perhaps you could comment on the events that lead up to the creation of the bible we have today.
Unless I am deceived,
The Holy Spirit bears witness within me
that The Book of Enoch is as True
and God-Inspired as any writing
that we generally consider to be Scripture.PS-
Constantine was such a punk.Constantine certainly did change a lot of things. I suppose that the real blame goes to the believers who let him take authority over them, when it is Christ who should have that authority.
I’ve often wondered the very same thing, but I have never read anything other than the bible. Any one have any sugestions as to what else is out there?
Now I thought that the book of revelations was written during a time of great Christian Perssecution, hence the cryptic nature of the writing, as they wrote to each other. ( church to church)
Hmm… I believe that they are surely many other writings or even books which are written under divine inspiration of God. Yet the Bible should still be the one the one book that we need to read as “All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness…” (2Timothy 3:16)
They did not quote eachother , and call it scripture, They quoted the prophets of OlD, the torah.
The old writings are the scriptures they used for rebuking, not their own writings.
Id like to see an actual word study on the original Words used for 'scripture' Im sure it will be interesting.
All scripture is inspired by God. So if it inspired it is scripture.
If God tells you something and you repeat it or write it down, it is the Word of God. Not the Logos, but the Rhema.We should also consider that the New Testament writings weren't written yet. Of course they used the Old Testament to prove what was happening in that season.
But anything written accurately under the inspiration of God is scripture.
2 Peter 3:16
He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.The writer makes the distinction, Between, His letters, and scripture.
No where in the new testimate, Do they then Go to say, You should consider the writings written to you as scripture.
But then again, all things should be tested.
We know that the torah was correct, Because Jesus Quoted it, and the disciples quoted it, as for the new testiment, Allthough the originators would have written correctly, It had not been around as long, and tested and testified too like the Old testiment. In addition, Many people looking to change the New testiment, To theyre own idea's, would have left much of the Old Testiment out of it, Plus we have the Jewish Nation holding to those scriptures, keeping any lies, or changes obvious for all.
Jesus gave a weighty testimony about the Pharasies, and what they taught. He said. 'They teach what is right, so they must be obeyed, But they are hypocrites, and do not do what they say.'
Jesus is the cornerstone of the foundations of the Prophets, They are what jesus used to validate himself, Jesus quoted the prophets.
One thing that we know for sure, *The new testiment was Not what The disciples themselves Considered Scripture, as they were 'Letters'. So why dont we take they're example and use what they considered to be scripture, for rebuking, correcting, and building up? That was our instructions!!! It is by believing lies that people think of the New testiment as anything else but letters. For it was not tested like the old testiment, The Old Testiment was they're wieghing Device for theyre letters, the basis for the disciples writings!!
*Why think ourselves better than them by not taking theyre example??Powerfull oppressors overlooked the Torah, because they cosidered the Jews as Nothing, Which is still a view that has continued through the philosophies of many that call themselves “christian's”.
This gives us more confidence in the reliability Of the Torah. Yet, all things must be tested.
I agree with Ringo. When the apostles referred to scripture they are referring to the Old Testament.
Most Christian groups have disposed of the Old Testament and preach from the new but Yahshua based all he said on the Old.
We must be as the Bereans!!!!!! If what you are told does not line up with the Old Testament, then disregard it. The Old Testament is our measure.
I agree that all things should be in alignment and not contradict the Old Testament, for it is scripture. But if we ignore the New Testament, which is about a better testament, then we have failed to move on in God's plan.
We must also remember that the New Testament writings had not been written yet and of course the Old Testament scriptures were all that was available. The Old Testament books were written at various times, so why should inspired books and writings finish after the time of our visitation?
So it is right that what God was about to do, must align with his scripture and this is the reason that Jesus quoted the Old Testament. To show those who had eyes to see and ears to hear, who he was and what was happening and about to happen. Even the Bereans tested what Paul had to say with scripture (The Old Testament) in order to see that his teachings were also from God and scriptural. There is no record that says that they disagreed with him, so in that sense what Paul was saying was of God in their opinion and his writings and teachings were based on scripture and were actually scripture as the Lord Jesus himself showed Paul directly many of the things that he taught.
Galatians 1:12
I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.In the past, God's plan was to guide his people with the Law with the future promise of his Messiah/Christ. We now live in the time when the Messiah has visited us. We are in a different season and a better one. We have more promises available to us. God's Spirit doesn't just come upon us, but lives in us. The Law has been fulfilled for us in Christ. As long as we are in Christ, the Law is fulfilled for us.
Today, the light is brighter and the old is but a shadow of the new. One was the question that needed an answer and the other is the answer. We have the grace of God in our lives everyday. It is no longer an eye for an eye, rather it is about letting them slap the other cheek. A contradiction? No, this just shows that times have changed. We are in a better time. Certain things are now possible because Yashua laid his life down for us.
The New Testament and the Church may seem to fly in the face of the Old Testament at times and we see this conflict no more clearly than we see with Jesus and the Pharisees.
Love and grace is here in our season. We are no longer stoned for adultery, but we can repent and be forgiven. We can do good on the Sabbath and we can consider one day as holy or or all days as holy. We can even eat that which God once called unclean. All things a lawful, but not all things are profitable. It is a time of liberty in the Spirit.
God used Moses and the Israelites in that season, but it is now the church season. We are sheep of another flock. We are not Jews, but Jews and Gentiles who are now part of Christ's Body.
We have a heritage just like the Jews did and we have a covenant just like the Jews did. God is moving through the Gentiles and making them part of Christ's body. Of course we must not think that we are better than the Jews for they are the natural branches and we have been adopted. But I am a Gentile and part of the life giving vine. I have a covenant with God, not written in the blood of bulls, but the blood of God's only Son.
We no longer need to go through a priest for we are priests ourselves. For if God uses the Gentiles in the time of Israels stumble, then he has that right. He is God and he is Sovereign and if he wants to provoke them to jelousy, then he only does it to bring them back into full relationship with him.
So it is that we have scripture too and so it is that our faith is being written everyday. We no longer have to look to the past and copy it, but the power of God is available to us to change the future and do new things. God is moving and inspiring his people everyday. The light will get brighter in the future just as the darkness will get darker as we head toward the time of harvest.
What about scripture? The Spirit of God lives in us and moves us. How can what God says to us not be the word of God and how can what God has inspired us to write not be scripture. All true prophecy is from God, whether God spoke it yesterday today or in the future.
The Book of Revelation for example, is scripture of utmost importance to the Church. It is considered so revelatory, that this of all books contains a special message of warning.
Revelation 22:18-19
18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book.
19 And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.So yes I agree with the Old Testament and believe it to be scripture just as Christ did. But I also believe in the heritage of the church and the miracles and moves of God that have happened and will continue to happen. I believe in the good works of the saints. To a degree I am able to inherit them easily, even though they paid for this truth with their bood.
I believe in obeying the teachings of Yahshua for he is my shepherd and Christ. So where do I read his teachings, it is certainly not recorded in the Old Testament (but aligns with it), rather it was recorded and written down by his disciples. This was the will of our Christ, as he left it to them to record his words. He didn't write them down himself, but used his Church as the witness. His Church is the light of the world and the salt of the earth.
I consider the words that Christ spoke on earth to be scripture once they were written, although not recorded in the Old Testament. Just as I consider Paul, Peter, John's teaching as scripture. For surely the Spirit of God is IN his people today and because of this, it can be said that we live in a better covenant.
The gospel we have to give to all the world is not found in the Old Testament rather it is the good news about Jesus and the Kingdom of God. This instruction was given to us after the Old Testament.
Matthew 26:12-13
12 “For when she poured this perfume on My body, she did it to prepare Me for burial.
13 “Truly I say to you, wherever this gospel is preached in the whole world, what this woman has done will also be spoken of in memory of her.”John 10:16
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.John 10:27
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:If it were not for the New Testament writings, we would not know what the teachings of Jesus Christ were. In fact he used his Church as a witness of himself and to the glory of his God his Father. I have faith in Christ and know that he knew what he was doing.
Even though evil may try and corrupt what Jesus did and distort what Jesus taught, the enemy cannot and will not ultimately succeed. God always finds a way to preserve and demonstrate his truth.
Matthew 24:14
And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.What gospel is that? Not Moses gospel, not Abrahams gospel, but the good news about Yahshua and how he saved man by the shedding of his blood and his death and resurrection. He now sits at the Father's side interceeding for us.
It must also be pointed out that the Church who had the New Testament writings considered them scripture. As well as the Old Testament, they quoted and taught from the NT too. It just shows progression and that God is moving in his plan toward the great and wonderful day of Jesus retu
rn.It is not just about what God said thousands of years ago, but what he is also saying today.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 04 2004,10:59) What is the book of Jashar quoted in Joshua 10.13 and 2 Sam1.18?
I got this from another website.The book of Jashar is one of the many books cited in the OT. Following is a list (possibly incomplete) of sources cited in the O.T. books. The list omits references to other O.T. books. These works are “extrabiblical”-outside (extra, Latin) the Bible.
The Book of the Wars of the Lord-Numbers 21:14
The Poets-Numbers 21:27
The Book of the Annals of the Kings of Media and Persia-Esther 10:2
The Book of Jashar-Joshua 10:13, 2 Samuel 1:18
The Sayings of the Wise-Proverbs 22:17+
The Sayings of Agur-Proverbs 30
The Sayings of King Lemuel-Proverbs 31:1-9
The Book of the Annals of the Kings of Israel-1 Kings 14:19 etc.
The Book of the Annals of the Kings of Judah-1 Kings 14:29 etc.
The Book of the Kings of Judah and Israel-2 Chronicles 16:11
The Annotations of the Prophet Iddo-2 Chronicles 13:22
The Vision of the Prophet Isaiah-2 Chronicles 32:32
Genealogical records-Nehemiah 7, Ezra 2
The Book of the Annals of Solomon-1 Kings 11:41
The Book of the Annals of King David-1 Chronicles 27:24
The Records of Samuel the Seer-1 Chronicles 29:29
The Records of Nathan the Prophet-1 Chronicles 29:29
The Records of Gad the Seer-1 Chronicles 29:29
The Visions of Iddo the Seer-2 Chronicles 9:29
The Prophecy of Ahijah the Shilonite-2 Chronicles 9:29
The Annals of Jehu son of Hanani-2 Chronicles 20:34
The Letter of Elijah to Jehoram-2 Chronicles 21:12+
The Annotations of the Book of the Kings-2 Chronicles 24:27
The Laments of Jeremiah for Josiah-2 Chronicles 35:25Hi Nick,
Bible Gateway says the following:
Joshua 10:12-13
The LORD was helping the Israelites defeat the Amorites that day. So about noon, Joshua prayed to the LORD loud enough for the Israelites to hear:
” Our LORD, make the sun stop
in the sky over Gibeon,
and the moon stand still
over Aijalon Valley.” [1] So the sun and the moon
stopped and stood still
until Israel defeated its enemies.
This poem can be found in The Book of Jashar. [2] The sun stood still and didn't go down for about a whole day.Footnotes
10.12,13 Aijalon Valley: A valley southwest of Beth-Horon Pass.
10.12,13 Book of Jashar: This book may have been a collection of ancient war songs.Quote (t8 @ July 04 2004,01:00) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 04 2004,10:59) What is the book of Jashar quoted in Joshua 10.13 and 2 Sam1.18?
I got this from another website.The book of Jashar is one of the many books cited in the OT. Following is a list (possibly incomplete) of sources cited in the O.T. books. The list omits references to other O.T. books. These works are “extrabiblical”-outside (extra, Latin) the Bible.
The Book of the Wars of the Lord-Numbers 21:14
The Poets-Numbers 21:27
The Book of the Annals of the Kings of Media and Persia-Esther 10:2
The Book of Jashar-Joshua 10:13, 2 Samuel 1:18
The Sayings of the Wise-Proverbs 22:17+
The Sayings of Agur-Proverbs 30
The Sayings of King Lemuel-Proverbs 31:1-9
The Book of the Annals of the Kings of Israel-1 Kings 14:19 etc.
The Book of the Annals of the Kings of Judah-1 Kings 14:29 etc.
The Book of the Kings of Judah and Israel-2 Chronicles 16:11
The Annotations of the Prophet Iddo-2 Chronicles 13:22
The Vision of the Prophet Isaiah-2 Chronicles 32:32
Genealogical records-Nehemiah 7, Ezra 2
The Book of the Annals of Solomon-1 Kings 11:41
The Book of the Annals of King David-1 Chronicles 27:24
The Records of Samuel the Seer-1 Chronicles 29:29
The Records of Nathan the Prophet-1 Chronicles 29:29
The Records of Gad the Seer-1 Chronicles 29:29
The Visions of Iddo the Seer-2 Chronicles 9:29
The Prophecy of Ahijah the Shilonite-2 Chronicles 9:29
The Annals of Jehu son of Hanani-2 Chronicles 20:34
The Letter of Elijah to Jehoram-2 Chronicles 21:12+
The Annotations of the Book of the Kings-2 Chronicles 24:27
The Laments of Jeremiah for Josiah-2 Chronicles 35:25
Where is the book of Enoch
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