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Quote (IM4Truth @ July 04 2007,13:13) Hello Tim Nobody says God is a failure, but God knows the end from the beginning.
God knew he needed a savior for us before he created us.
Jesus knew he would have to die for us before the creation of the world.
Lucifer was created perfect UNTIL iniquity was found in him, that's when he became Satan, a liar and a murderer.
Adam was created very good, but he didn't stay that way.
God knew all the problems we would get into, but because he loves us, he created us anyway.God bless
God uses good and evil for our education. He created both.Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
Peace,
Ken
Quote (kenrch @ July 05 2007,01:49) Quote (IM4Truth @ July 04 2007,13:13) Hello Tim Nobody says God is a failure, but God knows the end from the beginning.
God knew he needed a savior for us before he created us.
Jesus knew he would have to die for us before the creation of the world.
Lucifer was created perfect UNTIL iniquity was found in him, that's when he became Satan, a liar and a murderer.
Adam was created very good, but he didn't stay that way.
God knew all the problems we would get into, but because he loves us, he created us anyway.God bless
God uses good and evil for our education. He created both.Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
Peace,
Ken
Hi Brother Ken:I am not sure that I agree with the following statement.
Quote God uses good and evil for our education. He created both. Please explain what you mean by saying that God created evil.
You use Isa 45:7 to support your viewpoint, but I may have a different understanding on this than you.
God Bless
Quote (942767 @ July 05 2007,03:01) Quote (kenrch @ July 05 2007,01:49) Quote (IM4Truth @ July 04 2007,13:13) Hello Tim Nobody says God is a failure, but God knows the end from the beginning.
God knew he needed a savior for us before he created us.
Jesus knew he would have to die for us before the creation of the world.
Lucifer was created perfect UNTIL iniquity was found in him, that's when he became Satan, a liar and a murderer.
Adam was created very good, but he didn't stay that way.
God knew all the problems we would get into, but because he loves us, he created us anyway.God bless
God uses good and evil for our education. He created both.Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
Peace,
Ken
Hi Brother Ken:I am not sure that I agree with the following statement.
Quote God uses good and evil for our education. He created both. Please explain what you mean by saying that God created evil.
You use Isa 45:7 to support your viewpoint, but I may have a different understanding on this than you.
God Bless
Job 1:12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.God gave Satan permission to inflect Job.
Speaking of Pharaoh:
Exo 9:16 And in very deed for this cause have I raised thee up, for to shew in thee my power; and that my name may be declared throughout all the earth.
God raised Pharaoh to show His power.
And the Hebrews:
Rom 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
Rom 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.God gave them the spirit of slumber so the Gentiles would be saved.
God uses whatever He wants to bring about His purpose.
IHN&L,
Ken
Hi Brother Ken:
We could not become like Jesus unless we had some where to put his Word in to practice. My question is that you say “God created evil”. And so, I was asking in what sense are you saying this?
God Bless
Quote (942767 @ July 05 2007,04:37) Hi Brother Ken: We could not become like Jesus unless we had some where to put his Word in to practice. My question is that you say “God created evil”. And so, I was asking in what sense are you saying this?
God Bless
Ask Job.Ask Pharhaoh.
Ask Paul.
Did God put in the Herbrews heart not accept Jesus so the Gentiles would have a chance too accept Him?
Did God give Satan instructions on what he could and COULD NOT do to Job?
Did God say that He creates evil?
Evil in Isiah 45:7
H7451
רעה רע
ra‛ râ‛âh
rah, raw-aw'
From H7489; bad or (as noun) evil (naturally or morally). This includes the second (feminine) form; as adjective or noun: – adversity, affliction, bad, calamity, + displease (-ure), distress, evil ([-favouredness], man, thing), + exceedingly, X great, grief (-vous), harm, heavy, hurt (-ful), ill (favoured), + mark, mischief, (-vous), misery, naught (-ty), noisome, + not please, sad (-ly), sore, sorrow, trouble, vex, wicked (-ly, -ness, one), worse (-st) wretchedness, wrong. [Including feminine ra’ah; as adjective or noun.]Isa 45:7
(ASV) I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil. I am Jehovah, that doeth all these things.
(CEV) I create light and darkness, happiness and sorrow. I, the LORD, do all of this.
(DRB) I form the light, and create darkness, I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord that do all these things.
(ESV) I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I am the LORD, who does all these things.
(GNB) I create both light and darkness; I bring both blessing and disaster. I, the LORD, do all these things.
(GW) I make light and create darkness. I make blessings and create disasters. I, the LORD, do all these things.
(KJV) I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
(KJV+) I form3335 the light,216 and create1254 darkness:2822 I make6213 peace,7965 and create1254 evil:7451 I589 the LORD3068 do6213 all3605 these428 things.
(KJVR) I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
(LITV) forming light, and creating darkness; making peace, and creating evil. I, Jehovah, do all these things.
(MKJV) forming the light and creating darkness; making peace and creating evil. I Jehovah do all these things.
(MSG) I form light and create darkness, I make harmonies and create discords. I, GOD, do all these things.
If you perfer the word “calamities” as some do fine, it's all the same to me.
When God uses bad/evil the out come is always GOOD.
Someone had to betray Jesus. Jesus had to be crucified so we could be God's children. Did God create Judas?
Did not God as the verse says create everything?
Again, I ask if we know not evil then How are we to know good?
God gives us that choice.
IHN&L,
Ken
What is true, is that the beginning doesn't mean the literal beginning. God was the only one that is eternal. Knowing this, we can infer that Satan was good at one point in time as the light-bearer, Lucifer and that there was a beginning to which he turned evil.
Quote (acertainchap @ July 05 2007,11:10) What is true, is that the beginning doesn't mean the literal beginning. God was the only one that is eternal. Knowing this, we can infer that Satan was good at one point in time as the light-bearer, Lucifer and that there was a beginning to which he turned evil.
Why should we infer anything? Satan was a murderer from the beginning of satan. How much simpler can you get.If a white skinned person gets sunburned and turns red,
We don't say that they were red from the beginning, just because they were red from the beginning of the sunburn.I just do not understand these convoluted interpretations of scriptures in order to make them fit man made myths.
Tim
Hi Tim4,
We see Satan, the dragon, the devil, the serpent at work in the garden in Genesis lying and causing the death of Adam and Eve, but that was not the beginning of Satan was it?Hi Brother Ken:
You say:
Quote If you perfer the word “calamities” as some do fine, it's all the same to me. I do prefer this definition of what the scripture states when God says he creates evil.
I believe that this is what the Word of God means. There is no unrighteousness in God.
God Bless
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 05 2007,13:07) Hi Tim4,
We see Satan, the dragon, the devil, the serpent at work in the garden in Genesis lying and causing the death of Adam and Eve, but that was not the beginning of Satan was it?
Hi Nick,Where do we see satan before that?
Shaow me a scripture that clearly shows satan
in existence before Genesis.Tim
Quote (TimothyVI @ July 05 2007,12:00) Quote (acertainchap @ July 05 2007,11:10) What is true, is that the beginning doesn't mean the literal beginning. God was the only one that is eternal. Knowing this, we can infer that Satan was good at one point in time as the light-bearer, Lucifer and that there was a beginning to which he turned evil.
Why should we infer anything? Satan was a murderer from the beginning of satan. How much simpler can you get.If a white skinned person gets sunburned and turns red,
We don't say that they were red from the beginning, just because they were red from the beginning of the sunburn.I just do not understand these convoluted interpretations of scriptures in order to make them fit man made myths.
Tim
Satan wasn't there from the literal beginning, that's why. Only God was, as he is eternal.Satan God's brother? Nahhh….
Quote (acertainchap @ July 06 2007,00:03) Quote (TimothyVI @ July 05 2007,12:00) Quote (acertainchap @ July 05 2007,11:10) What is true, is that the beginning doesn't mean the literal beginning. God was the only one that is eternal. Knowing this, we can infer that Satan was good at one point in time as the light-bearer, Lucifer and that there was a beginning to which he turned evil.
Why should we infer anything? Satan was a murderer from the beginning of satan. How much simpler can you get.If a white skinned person gets sunburned and turns red,
We don't say that they were red from the beginning, just because they were red from the beginning of the sunburn.I just do not understand these convoluted interpretations of scriptures in order to make them fit man made myths.
Tim
Satan wasn't there from the literal beginning, that's why. Only God was, as he is eternal.Satan God's brother? Nahhh….
Yes chap,
But why must you infer that “satan was good at one point in time as the light bearer, lucifer”That is not inferred anywhere except in the myth of man.
Tim
Hi Chap ,
then read what the scriptures say about the snake.THE CROOKED SERPENT” (Job 26:13). But the crooked SERPENT God formed by His “hand”. Satan is called “the crooked serpent.” This word crooked comes from a Hebrew word that is not translated “crooked” anywhere else in the Bible. The word in Hebrew is bariach, and it means “a fugitive,” Strong’s #1281. And “fugitive” is from the Hebrew word nuwa, Strong’s #5128, among its several meanings are: “to [go] up and down,” and “to and fro,”. Remember that God names things according to what they are and what they do:
“And the LORD Said unto SATAN [not a heretofore archangel], Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, ‘From going TO AND FRO in the earth, and from walking UP AND DOWN in it” (Job. 1:7 and 2:2).
It is the “crooked [fugitive] SERPENT” SATAN who goes “TO AND FRO” and “UP AND DOWN” in the earth! God created Satan for this purpose.”By HIS SPIRIT He hath garnished the heavens; his HAND has FORMED
What do you think?
Tim
Quote (acertainchap @ July 06 2007,01:11) I don't understand what you are saying.
Hi Chap,I am trying to show, using scriptures, that God created the serpent, satan to do exactly what he does. Please reread my last post slowly and check the referenced scriptures.
He was not some perfect creation of God (lucifer) that went wrong. Man made that story up. It is a myth.
Tim
Thanks for giving me a new line of thought. I do understand your reasoning, especially the one about why the King of Babylon would be spoken of and then in mid-sentence begin speaking of Lucifer. I will 100% consider your reasoning. Thanks!!! Oh, and please respond. Peace!!!!
Hi Tim
When Lucifer s attempt to overthrow God failed, he was cast down to earth;
Jesus is speaking in,Luke 10:18 “…I beheld Satan as lightening fall from heaven.”
Satan was already on this earth, when God created the garden for Adam and Eve,
he was right there to spoil God's plan. Satan didn't know that testing his creation,
was God's plan.
Satan, as the rest of the angels, were there when God created man.Bless you Tim
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