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Quote (t8 @ Mar. 22 2013,20:25) If the Word that is in God is brought forth to be with him as the first work, then that is how a word can be with God. I have given so many scriptures about this that I have given up.
Quote God has wisdom right? Yet Jesus is called wisdom from God and we are told that wisdom was given birth as the first work of the Father and he was the craftsman at God's side. That is poetic.
Read more.Isaiah 11:
1“A shoot will come out
from the stump of Jesse,
and a branch will bear fruit
from his roots.
2THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD WILL REST UPON HIM,
THE SPIRIT OF WISDOM and understanding,
the Spirit of counsel and power,
the Spirit of knowledge and fear of the LORD.
3His delight will be in the fear of the LORD.
He won’t judge by what his eyes see,
nor decide disputes by what his ears hear,
4but with righteousness he will judge the needy,
and decide with equity for earth’s poor.
He will strike the earth with the rod of his mouth,
and the wicked will be killed with the breath of his lips.
5Righteousness will be the sash around his loins,
and faithfulness the belt around his waist.”There is Jesus with the 'Spirit of Wisdom' ON HIM.
1 Corinthians 1:30:
It is because of him that you are in CHRIST JESUS, WHO HAS BECOME FOR US WISDOM from God–that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption.
Become.
Wisdom – Chapter 1
From the New Jerusalem Bible.
(Considered canon by the earliest Church, and is in some bibles such as mine)4 WISDOM will never enter the soul of a wrong-doer, nor dwell in a body enslaved to sin;
5 FOR THE HOLY SPIRIT of instruction flees deceitfulness, recoils from unintelligent thoughts, is thwarted by the onset of vice.
6 WISDOM is a spirit friendly to humanity, though she will not let a blasphemer's words go unpunished; since God observes the very soul and accurately surveys the heart, listening to every word.
7 For THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD fills the world, and that which HOLDS EVERYTHING TOGETHER knows every word said.'
There, the Holy Spirit and wisdom seem to be the same thing.
Jesus said that all sins will be forgiven, and that if you speak a word against the son of man it can be forgiven, but, if you speak a word against the Holy Spirit it will not be forgiven neither in this life or in the one to come.
And in Genesis 1:1 it says that in the beginning God created the earth, and that the SPIRIT OF GOD was hovering over the face of the waters and GOD SAID let there be… and it was so,
Scriptures tell us that GOD ALONE created the world, and that NO OTHER GOD was with Him – it was HE ALONE.
And we know from scriptures that Paul explains to us that there are two parts to a man; the mind and also the Spirit; and that the Spirit searches our mind; and so it is with God.
We know that it was prophesied of Jesus that 'a shoot would come out of the stock of Jessie' (Isaiah 11:2) and that the spirit of God would be upon him, and that this was so.
So many other verses that I have been through but as I ssid I have grown tired.
What it says in John 1:1 is true.
I could do a really post for you but it would take a long time to read and so I think i will leave it:)
God bless, I have nothing more to say about this particular topic…!
Your posts are too long 2besee and the point is lost. I don't even know what your point is. Think of this as a conversation. If I rattled of one page of information, the hearer may not even know what the point is. Remember, the point is in your mind, but for hearers, you need to explain it clearly.
I much prefer each post to be taking about a point. It is difficult to find the time and energy to read a whole page. Might do it from time to time, but my day is not long enough to allow me to read everything.
Quote How could the Holy Spirit be “a god”, and how could 'the spoken words of God' be.. “gods”?? Okay I think this is the point.
I would say that anyone that is born of God or begotten of him could only consist of attributes and nature that God possesses. What else is there that another could inherit?
So of course we could argue all day that God has wisdom and truth and is a spirit. But then angels are spirits, Jesus is the truth and he is wisdom from God.
And even we who are redeemed will receive a new name. When we are born from above we too receive of the nature of God and his character attributes are available to us.
This is not to be confused with connecting beings because they share the same attribute or character.
As far as the Holy Spirit descending on Jesus, I am having trouble seeing this the way you must see it.
Are you saying that Jesus was the Spirit and the body was a dead shell of a man that the Spirit inhabited. Or how do you explain this. Please one point per post if you can, then I can keep up with the conversation.
Quote (t8 @ Mar. 22 2013,22:07) Your posts are too long 2besee and the point is lost. I don't even know what your point is. Think of this as a conversation. If I rattled of one page of information, the hearer may not even know what the point is. Remember, the point is in your mind, but for hearers, you need to explain it clearly. I much prefer each post to be taking about a point. It is difficult to find the time and energy to read a whole page. Might do it from time to time, but my day is not long enough to allow me to read everything.
The point was about wisdom and the word of God and the Holy Spirit but that's okay. Listen to others instead!Wisdom was given birth.
The Word was with God.
God also has wisdom and logos as attributes or character traits within himself.Quote (t8 @ Mar. 22 2013,11:16) Hmm. Please explain this. You say is a man only.
And Jesus is the son of God.
And the son of God is the Holy Spirit.Am I missing something here.
Please explain this contradiction.
Any chance of answering this simply and clearly in one post?Are those 3 lines not what you are saying?
You say Jesus is a man only.
And Jesus is the son of God.
And the son of God is the Holy Spirit.If not, then how can Jesus be a man only, and also be the Holy Spirit. Please explain it simply.
Quote (2besee @ Mar. 22 2013,22:59) Jesus said that all sins will be forgiven, and that if you speak a word against the son of man it can be forgiven, but, if you speak a word against the Holy Spirit it will not be forgiven neither in this life or in the one to come. And in Genesis 1:1 it says that in the beginning God created the earth, and that the SPIRIT OF GOD was hovering over the face of the waters and GOD SAID let there be… and it was so,
Scriptures tell us that GOD ALONE created the world, and that NO OTHER GOD was with Him – it was HE ALONE.
And we know from scriptures that Paul explains to us that there are two parts to a man; the mind and also the Spirit; and that the Spirit searches our mind; and so it is with God.
We know that it was prophesied of Jesus that 'a shoot would come out of the stock of Jessie' (Isaiah 11:2) and that the spirit of God would be upon him, and that this was so.
So many other verses that I have been through but as I ssid I have grown tired.
What it says in John 1:1 is true.
I could do a really post for you but it would take a long time to read and so I think i will leave it:)
God bless, I have nothing more to say about this particular topic…!
But what is the point of all this?
What are you pointing too?Quote (t8 @ Mar. 22 2013,22:23) how can Jesus be a man only, and also be the Holy Spirit. Please explain it simply.
The Holy Spirit was IN HIM, speaking THROUGH Him. Was that simple enough? The two became as if one.Quote (2besee @ Mar. 22 2013,23:52) Quote (t8 @ Mar. 22 2013,22:23) how can Jesus be a man only, and also be the Holy Spirit. Please explain it simply.
The Holy Spirit was IN HIM, speaking THROUGH Him. Was that simple enough? The two became as if one.
Agreed.
So when the Holy Spirit speaks through me what is happening. Am I the Spirit? Is this the point?t8,
We could never have the spirit as Jesus did.
We are sinners, Jesus was not a sinner.
I am far too tired to be posting at the moment.Later.
Quote (t8 @ Mar. 22 2013,16:09) Quote (2besee @ Mar. 22 2013,23:52) Quote (t8 @ Mar. 22 2013,22:23) how can Jesus be a man only, and also be the Holy Spirit. Please explain it simply.
The Holy Spirit was IN HIM, speaking THROUGH Him. Was that simple enough? The two became as if one.
Agreed.
So when the Holy Spirit speaks through me what is happening. Am I the Spirit? Is this the point?
T8,And T8 spoke and said “let the cat out.”
And the Spirit spoke and said “let the cat out.”
And Yawheh spoke and said “let the cat out.”“Let the cat out” was said once and then from the mouth of t8's flesh.
Quote (t8 @ Mar. 22 2013,09:15) Hi abe. Would it not be more accurate to say that the Word that was with God was once in God or an attribute of God. Likewise, Wisdom that was the workman with God that was given birth, was an attribute of God. And just as a flame lights another flame, and doesn't lessen the first flame, so it is with the giving birth of Wisdom and the bringing forth of the Word. Saying that the Word was THE God is excluding the Father from being God and it is also saying that the Word use to be God, but changed to the Word. So what happened to God?
T8,You start out sounding reasonable and so give a sound base to answer your own question.
Does the statement “the God is Love” exclude Jehovah from being God?
If not then how is Jehovah, Love?
Apply the same pattern to the Word.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 22 2013,07:14) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 21 2013,19:10) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 22 2013,05:41) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 20 2013,13:36) Mike, Quote What exactly would fall into the class “god”, in your opinion? Is God's Holy Spirit a god? Are the spoken words of God “gods”? Or does it seem much more likely that a BEING, who was also in the “god class”, was with “THE god” in the beginning?
The last I head elohim can even refer to holy items. I believe theos is the same way.
So then your answers are both “YES”, right? You believe the Holy Spirit is “a god”. And you believe the spoken words of God are “gods” – is that what you're saying?
Mike,Yes.
We, English speakers, may say divine instead of god.
I think you'll find that anyone who agrees with you that the words of God are “divine”, will NOT agree with you that the words of God are “gods”.
Mike,They may do so while calling things gods.
Quote capitalized : the supreme or ultimate reality: as
a : the Being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness who is worshipped as creator and ruler of the universe
b Christian Science : the incorporeal divine Principle ruling over all as eternal Spirit : infinite Mind
2
: a being or object believed to have more than natural attributes and powers and to require human worship; specifically : one controlling a particular aspect or part of reality
3
: a person or thing of supreme value
4
: a powerful rulerThat seems different as the Ancient Greeks seemed to use it for holy item and not just any item of supreme value.
God definitions.
Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 21 2013,22:48) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 21 2013,06:36)
LU,That is a confusing Trinitarian tenet. You infer that
Jesus the Shoot is not Yawheh.
Jesus the Root is Yawheh.That there is two Jesuses with separate souls, in one body.
That you the Jesus that is not Yawheh is also known as the flesh.The two cannot mix or God becomes able to be tempted by evil.
Kerwin,
The incarnation of God, the Son, who existed eternally, taking on the appearance of man and walking in flesh is mysterious indeed. I have given you an example of how the prince and the pauper explain how a person can be 100% royalty but take on 100% poverty for a time and then returning to 100% royalty but this time having the heart of a pauper. Although this is not a perfect comparison, it is intended to help you.Jesus is still YHVH, the Son, while being the 'Shoot,' but has been emptied of whatever would keep Him from being tempted and not dying. He became limited as any other man till He returned to the glory that He once had with the Father.
LU,A contradiction is not a mystery.
First you testify of two Jesuses that dwell in one flesh.
One Jesus is Yawheh and the other one is not.
Yawheh is not tempted by evil; even when dwelling in flesh. The Jesus that is not Yawheh is Jesus. The one that is the God is Yawheh.
There are not two Jesuses. There is the one Yawheh that dwell in one Jesus through his Spirit.
Now you testify that Yawheh stopped being Yawheh and became the human being Jesus. That leaves us with one Jesus who is a human being and therefore not the God.
The bottom line is Yawheh cannot be tempted by evil, nor will he subject himself to be tempted by Satan.
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 23 2013,01:02) The Holy Spirit was IN HIM, speaking THROUGH Him. Was that simple enough? The two became as if one.[/quote]
Agreed.
So when the Holy Spirit speaks through me what is happening. Am I the Spirit? Is this the point?[/quote]
T8,And T8 spoke and said “let the cat out.”
And the Spirit spoke and said “let the cat out.”
And Yawheh spoke and said “let the cat out.”“Let the cat out” was said once and then from the mouth of t8's flesh.
So the point is that I am me, and God is another.We are vessels that can house the spirit of God. We can also house demon spirits.
2beese was inferring that Jesus was the Holy Spirit. Still don't see the evidence. I am open to hearing why.
Quote (2besee @ Mar. 23 2013,00:24) t8, We could never have the spirit as Jesus did.
We are sinners, Jesus was not a sinner.
I am far too tired to be posting at the moment.Later.
John 14:17
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.Romans 8:11
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.1 Corinthians 6-19
What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?1 John 4:4
Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.Quote (t8 @ Mar. 22 2013,04:15) Quote (2besee @ Mar. 23 2013,00:24) t8, We could never have the spirit as Jesus did.
We are sinners, Jesus was not a sinner.
I am far too tired to be posting at the moment.Later.
John 14:17
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.Romans 8:11
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.1 Corinthians 6-19
What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?1 John 4:4
Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
Hi T8,Jn.7:39 Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
Jn.16:7 Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you.
Acts2:32 This Jesus God raised up, and of that we all are witnesses. 33Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing.
Jn.16:16 Jesus went on to say, “In a little while you will see me no more, and then after a little while you will see me.”
Jn.14:18 “I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.
Acts2:36 Let all the house of Israel therefore know for certain that God has MADE him BOTH Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.”
YES it is that simple!!!
Peace brother…
Quote (t8 @ Mar. 22 2013,18:15) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 23 2013,01:02) The Holy Spirit was IN HIM, speaking THROUGH Him. Was that simple enough? The two became as if one.
Agreed.
So when the Holy Spirit speaks through me what is happening. Am I the Spirit? Is this the point?[/quote]
T8,And T8 spoke and said “let the cat out.”
And the Spirit spoke and said “let the cat out.”
And Yawheh spoke and said “let the cat out.”“Let the cat out” was said once and then from the mouth of t8's flesh.[/quote]
So the point is that I am me, and God is another.We are vessels that can house the spirit of God. We can also house demon spirits.
2beese was inferring that Jesus was the Holy Spirit. Still don't see the evidence. I am open to hearing why.
T8,Let us find out if you are correct about what 2beesee means.
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