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Keith,
You and I are going to have this place for our one on one friendly, respectful discussions. No other members may post here.
All Heaven Net rules apply.
There is to be no belittling of each other or other members.
This is a place to be an example of brotherly kindness while discussing topics of interest.
Keith will begin with the first question.
Then I must answer that and then I will ask one question to him. He must answer that question before he can ask another question of me.
We will only be allowed to ask one question at a time and we will number our questions and corresponding answers. We will bold the question so there is no mistake what the question is. If either of us need clarification in order to answer the question, that is fine but we cannot ask our next question until we answer the clarified question. We may not be satisfied with each other's answer but we have to wait to challenge that answer till after we have answered the latest question posed to us. We are only required to answer the bolded question in the post and do not need to address the unbolded points or questions unless we would like to.
The answer of “I don't know” is certainly permissible.
This is not an attack thread nor a debate thread with the intention of gaining a winner and a loser. The intention will be to have a win/win discussion. If we do not come to agreement then it is certainly best to agree to disagree and seek God in all things and move on to another topic. Jumping from one topic before the topic is settled is allowed.
If anyone else posts here by accident or intentionally, the moderator will be asked to delete the post. We are not to respond to those accidental or intentional interruptions except to remind them not to post in this thread and then either of us can ask the moderator to delete it.
We can close this thread by mutual agreement.
So, with all that said…may God bless this effort and that it would be mutually beneficial to each of us
Thanks Keith for discussing with me,
KathiOK Keith…I will wait for your first question. Remember, this is only a place for an ongoing discussion between us without distractions from other posters, not some formal debate to try to win.
Bless you,
KathiHi Kathi
OK here is my first question…
Can you show me a scripture that implies Jesus was a “son” in the Father before he came into existence as a begotten Son?
Blessings! WJ
Hi Keith,
Keith's question #1 to Kathi
Can you show me a scripture that implies Jesus was a “son” in the Father before he came into existence as a begotten Son?
This verse implies that He was in the Father and came out from Him…and that He sent Him. The fact that He said to the disciples that He was the Son of God implies that He came out from the Father also.This is the 'Son' talking to His Father here:
John 17:8 Because the words which thou gavest me, I have given to them; and they have received them, and have known in very deed that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.My Question #1 to Keith:
I think I know the answer to this, but for the record, when do you believe the Son was begotten?Thanks,
KathiHi Keith,
You mentioned me on Kerwin's 'kathy' thread (and I know it is spelled wrong but that is the way that Kerwin spelled it). Because I want to have a place for our conversations, uninterrupted, I am going to address what you say about me or to me…over here. I know you don't have time to have some formal discussion with me and that's fine, I never really wanted a formal debate with you, just discussions like we have had for years but in one section to avoid repetition and confusion. You can discuss with me when you want to…no pressure…no judgement. It's cool either way
you said:
Quote It is you and Kathi that believe in more than “One Deity”, right? If the Father is inseparable from the Son and they are inseparable from their Holy Spirit then they represent one deity even though the Father and Son are both by nature…God, one as the Father and one as the Son, each with their own Spirit within them and coming from them without ever truly separating from them. When their Spirit from each is given to man, it is united as one spirit, to be Father and Son dwelling within believers.
Polytheist have seperate gods, not inseparable Gods.
Blessings,
KathiFrom the 'Kathy' thread I said this:
Quote The spirit of man is called the innerman or innerperson.
The son of man is called man.Wouldn't the Spirit of God be the innerperson of God?
Wouldn't the Son of God be called God?
If God Almighty is called Father, can He be called true Father apart from a true Son? If you don't believe in the true and proper Son, then you do not have the true and proper Father. He is only a true and proper Father is there is an offspring that carries His nature. Otherwise He would be called Father by those improperly called sons and thus not a true and proper Father as is one who passes on His nature to His Son.you asked me this:
Quote Hold on there Kathi… You said…
“Otherwise He would be called Father by those improperly called sons and thus not a true and proper Father as is one who passes on His nature to His Son.”
When was there a time that Jesus did not have the nature of God? You have repeatedly said Jesus always existed in the Father sharing the same “essence” or nature with the Father yet now you are saying…
“the Father passes on his nature to his Son” is that correct?
WJ
Yes, Keith I have said that. That is why I call the Son the eternal offspring and the meaning of eternal generation is significant…at what point does an eternal offspring of God get all that His Father has by nature is unimaginable to me. We are told by the Son that His Father gave Him all things that He, Himself has. We are told that the Son is wisdom and power of God and that the Father has given Him all things. I just believe it without having to know exactly how that worked. Maybe the Holy offspring was dormant, so to speak at one point and then the begetting before creation was when all things that were already given Him by nature began bearing fruit. I really don't know.
Sincerely,
KathiKathi
One Deity means “One God” not a collection of Gods that are seperate beings.
As far as the Holy Spirit, there are no scriptures that say the “One Spirit” is a combination of two Spirits.
There are many scriptures that prove the Holy Spirit is not the personal Spirit of the Father as well as most of the writings of the Forefathers, which say the Paraclete is the third person of the Trinity.
The Father, Son and the Holy Spirit are “One Spirit” and “One God”.
God is Spirit so the essence of who God is is Spirit. The three share that same essence, “One Spirit”.
WJ
Hi Keith,
I know you are busy, thanks for your response.you said:
Quote One Deity means “One God” not a collection of Gods that are seperate beings. Strongs # 2320 theotes
definition…deity, GodheadGodhead is made up of more than one.
Quote As far as the Holy Spirit, there are no scriptures that say the “One Spirit” is a combination of two Spirits. Is the Spirit of the Father within you?
Is the Spirit of Christ within you also?
Is there not one Spirit?The possibility of the unity of the spirit is inferred to here:
1 Cor 6
16 Or do you not know that the one who joins himself to a prostitute is one body with her? For He says, “THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH.” 17 But the one who joins himself to the Lord is one spirit with Him.Quote There are many scriptures that prove the Holy Spirit is not the personal Spirit of the Father as well as most of the writings of the Forefathers, Prove, really they 'prove' that the Holy Spirit is not the personal Spirit of the Father? Where? Just by calling the Spirit a person doesn't prove that the Spirit is a person. I am aware that many call the Spirit a person and others call the Spirit by other descriptions. I haven't found that proof in the scriptures that would say the Spirit was a person as opposed to an inner-person that can extend from THE person without completely leaving that person.
Quote he Father, Son and the Holy Spirit are “One Spirit” and “One God”.
Scripture?Quote God is Spirit so the essence of who God is is Spirit. The three share that same essence, “One Spirit”. Where does it say in the Bible that God's essence/nature is 'spirit?' Are the angels not also spirit? Do they share the same essence/nature as 'the three?'
I don't see 'spirit' as nature/essence but as opposed to flesh. The Son was spirit, and became flesh, in other words. There are many spirits who are not the same nature as the Father although they are spirit.
Thanks and good night Keith,
Kathi
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