Oneness

[Proclaimer]

Quote (2 James 3:16 @ April 05 2010,16:11)

I'm a little confused with where you going with your train of thought. You don't believe in one God or the trinity? How many Gods are you professing?

The point I was making is that Jesus has a soul. He is an identity that is not God.

I believe that which is written, not man-made doctrines like Oneness and Trinity.

It is written that the Father is the only true God and that God made Jesus both Lord and Christ.

Jesus was the Word that became flesh. Not God who became flesh. I challenge you to prove this as wrong.

[Ed J]

Quote (2 James 3:16 @ April 05 2010,17:30)

Quote (Ed J @ April 05 2010,16:29) Quote (2 James 3:16 @ April 05 2010,15:08) Ed J Offline undefined Group: Members Posts: 1809 Joined: Oct. 2009 Posted: April 05 2010,10:29QUOTE Quote (2 James 3:16 @ April 05 2010,08:22) 2 Timothy 2:15 (King James Version) 15Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth I believe their is one God and his name is Jesus.  He manifest himself as our Father in creation, the Son in salvation, and the holy Spirit in our redemption.   I believe he is 100% God and 100% man and died for my sins.  I believe he is returning soon. I believe that if the reader of this post will put aside theology and use kneeolgy in their study of the scriptures God will reveal the oneness of his self and you will see the damnation of the trinity teaching. Hi James, Welcome to the forum! 100% + 100% = 200% (Mathematically IMPOSSIBLE) You need to rethink your percentages! Click Here <– On Jesus Return Ed J Hi Ed Two different realms  We have the spiritual and the physical.  Paul said to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.  If you were absent from the body your spirit would be with the lord.  100%   At the local funeral home your physical body would be awaiting burial.  100%   If Jesus wasn't 100% man he couldn't understand temptation of man and if he wasn't 100% God he could not forgive sin. James Hi James, So you mean 100% in timeliness. First God(Past), then man(on Earth) and then back to being God(after death) again; Is this your view? God bless Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Isaiah 44:6 (King James Version) 6Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. Revelation 22:12-14 (King James Version) 12And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 14Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. The God of Isaiah said he was the first and last.  Jesus in Revelation said he was the first and last.  How do we have two first and last?  We don't.  Jesus is God in the flesh. 1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. Great is the mystery of godliness. He was God, He is God, and He will forever be God When he walked on this earth he was man. He was hungry, he was thirsty, he would get tired.  He was a man who was tempted in all ways and did not sin.   He died for our sins. When he walked on this earth he was God.  He cast out demons.  He healed the sick.  He turned the water into wine.  He forgave sin.  Only God can forgive sin. Great is the mystery of godliness. James

Hi James,

You CANNOT have 200%! You need to rework your percentages.

God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[terraricca]

Quote (2 James 3:16 @ April 05 2010,15:52)

Quote (terraricca @ April 05 2010,15:28) 2jms Christ is God new to me were you got this info?? Isaiah 9:6 (King James Version) 6For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. This is Jesus Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. This is Jesus 1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. This is Jesus James

2JMS

so you have resumed the total scriptures meanings to 3 verses in the bible,

how long did it take you to come to that conclusion that 99.999% of the scriptures are not important ,but that what you personally see fit is worthed to be retain as plain truth???

how do you feel

would you say that what you say and believe is the gospel???

[2 James 3:16]

Quote (terraricca @ April 06 2010,01:45)

Quote (2 James 3:16 @ April 05 2010,15:52) Quote (terraricca @ April 05 2010,15:28) 2jms Christ is God new to me were you got this info?? Isaiah 9:6 (King James Version) 6For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. This is Jesus Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. This is Jesus 1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. This is Jesus James 2JMS so you have resumed the total scriptures meanings to 3 verses in the bible, how long did it take you to come to that conclusion that 99.999% of the scriptures are not important ,but that what you personally see fit is worthed to be retain as plain truth??? how do you feel would you say that what you say and believe is the gospel???

Who do you say Jesus is?
I know who he is.
Would you like me to send you 300 verses as to who he is or do you want 3000 verses. They are there. Why do you assume I rely on 3 verses?

James

[2 James 3:16]

Quote (t8 @ April 05 2010,17:32)

Quote (2 James 3:16 @ April 05 2010,16:11) I'm a little confused with where you going with your train of thought.  You don't believe in one God or the trinity?  How many Gods are you professing? The point I was making is that Jesus has a soul. He is an identity that is not God. I believe that which is written, not man-made doctrines like Oneness and Trinity. It is written that the Father is the only true God and that God made Jesus both Lord and Christ. Jesus was the Word that became flesh. Not God who became flesh. I challenge you to prove this as wrong.

You didn't answer my question.
How many Gods do you believe there are.
(1) Father?
(2) Son?
(3) Holy Spirit?

Are there one, two, or three?

I also believe that which is written, not man-made teachings. Where do you find that Jesus is not God?

James

[Lightenup]

Quote (2 James 3:16 @ April 05 2010,00:53)

Quote (Lightenup @ April 05 2010,16:27) Quote (2 James 3:16 @ April 04 2010,23:41) Quote (Lightenup @ April 05 2010,08:54) Quote (2 James 3:16 @ April 04 2010,16:22) 2 Timothy 2:15 (King James Version) 15Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth I believe their is one God and his name is Jesus.  He manifest himself as our Father in creation, the Son in salvation, and the holy Spirit in our redemption.  I believe he is 100% God and 100% man and died for my sins.  I believe he is returning soon. I believe that if the reader of this post will put aside theology and use kneeolgy in their study of the scriptures God will reveal the oneness of his self and you will see the damnation of the trinity teaching. 2 James 3:16, Welcome!  In the OT we see that God was called “The Lord God with the Outstretched Arm.”  And that God presented Himself as ONE.  It turns out that He is really the Father and the Son together as ONE with the Holy Spirit of the Father.  The Lord God “bares” His Arm and reveals that His Arm is His only Son.  And that only Son is said to be the: John 1:18 Context NET © No one has ever seen God. The only one,  himself God, who is in closest fellowship with the Father, has made God known. I hope you don't mind being challenged. God bless your time here, LU/Lightenup/Kathi Hi Kathi Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. 1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. 8Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us. 9Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father? 10Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. The angels came from heaven to see God.  mankind saw God. James 2 James, Yes Jesus is God, as a Son of God would naturally be and His Father was in heaven when His Son was born of a virgin, walked among men and then died.  Jesus said that the Father was greater than Him.  Jesus referred to His Father as His God even after His death and resurrection. Quote Luke 2:14 14 “Glory to God in the highest, And on earth peace among men with whom He is pleased.” NASU Quote Matt 6:9-10 9 “Pray, then, in this way: 'Our Father who is in heaven, Hallowed be Your name. 10 'Your kingdom come. Your will be done, On earth as it is in heaven. NASU Quote Rev 3:12 12 'He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My new name. NASU And, last but not least…we celebrated the resurrection today and on the same day Jesus ascended to His God and Father.  Later that same day, He showed Himself to His disciples: Quote John 20:17 17 Jesus said to her, “Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'” NASU When the disciples saw Jesus, they were able to perceive the Father too…Jesus bore the Father's image and always did what the Father would do.  In a similar way we are to do the will of the Father and look like Him to the world. Did you not know this? I love discussing the word of God.  I need a little information.  When you stand before the throne of God, how many beings will you see and what are their names?  Please answer this and then I will know how to answer you.  I must go to bed so I'll answer tomorrow. God Bless James

Hi James,
It depends on the context but I expect to see two beings on the throne. The Father, Almighty God and the Son, Jesus Christ. Jesus will be my advocate and mediator and will pronounce me as His own, to His Father.

[NickHassan]

Quote (2 James 3:16 @ April 06 2010,05:53)

Quote (t8 @ April 05 2010,17:32) Quote (2 James 3:16 @ April 05 2010,16:11) I'm a little confused with where you going with your train of thought.  You don't believe in one God or the trinity?  How many Gods are you professing? The point I was making is that Jesus has a soul. He is an identity that is not God. I believe that which is written, not man-made doctrines like Oneness and Trinity. It is written that the Father is the only true God and that God made Jesus both Lord and Christ. Jesus was the Word that became flesh. Not God who became flesh. I challenge you to prove this as wrong. You didn't answer my question. How many Gods do you believe there are. (1) Father? (2) Son? (3) Holy Spirit? Are there one, two, or three? I also believe that which is written, not man-made teachings.  Where do you find that Jesus is not God? James

Hi and welcome James.
He said he is the Son of God.
He said the Father was one one the Jews called God.[jn8.54]
Peter was praised for his statement that he is the Christ, the SON OF the living God.

But his words are disregarded as man's doctrines assumed more importance.

[terraricca]

Quote (terraricca @ April 06 2010,01:45)

Quote (2 James 3:16 @ April 05 2010,15:52) Quote (terraricca @ April 05 2010,15:28) 2jms Christ is God new to me were you got this info?? Isaiah 9:6 (King James Version) 6For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. This is Jesus Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. This is Jesus 1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. This is Jesus James 2JMS so you have resumed the total scriptures meanings to 3 verses in the bible, how long did it take you to come to that conclusion that 99.999% of the scriptures are not important ,but that what you personally see fit is worthed to be retain as plain truth??? how do you feel would you say that what you say and believe is the gospel???

2Jms

wen all things are finished and all is done as per Paul ;1CO 15:28 When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.

after ,the law,and Jesus sacrifice and the apostles preachings and all the ones who there name is written in the book of live are united with Christ,

then Christ the Son of God turn all over to his father and subject himself to God his father,
because God had subjected all things under him for the purpose of unit all things in him ,to be given back to God so that all is in all.

this can not be broken so it as to understood clearly.

[Ed J]

Quote (2 James 3:16 @ April 06 2010,05:53)

How many Gods do you believe there are. (1) Father? (2) Son? (3) Holy Spirit? Are there one, two, or three? I also believe that which is written, not man-made teachings.

Hi James,

1Cor.8:5-6 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
                 But to us there is but “ONE” “God, the Father”, of whom are all things, and we in him…

Do you really believe what is written?
             Click Here AND Here

Witnessing to the world in behalf of… (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[2 James 3:16]

Quote (Ed J @ April 06 2010,07:22)

Quote (2 James 3:16 @ April 06 2010,05:53) How many Gods do you believe there are. (1) Father? (2) Son? (3) Holy Spirit? Are there one, two, or three? I also believe that which is written, not man-made teachings.   Hi James, 1Cor.8:5-6 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)                  But to us there is but “ONE” “God, the Father”, of whom are all things, and we in him… Do you really believe what is written?              Click Here AND Here Witnessing to the world in behalf of… (Psalm 45:17) יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm! Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

I believe what is written
What is the fathers name
Who is Jesus and is he God or not God

James

[2 James 3:16]

2 Timothy 2:14-16 (King James Version)

14Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.

15Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

16But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

2 Thessalonians 2:10-12 (King James Version)

10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

HAVE YOU THOUGHT OF THE MEANING OF THESE WORDS. PONDER THESE THOUGHTS.

James

[NickHassan]

Hi Jas,
Indeed you should ponder what is written and ignore the vain babblings of philosophers and therologians.

Jesus Christ is the son of the living God.

[terraricca]

Quote (2 James 3:16 @ April 06 2010,08:04)

2 Timothy 2:14-16 (King James Version) 14Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers. 15Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 16But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. 2 Thessalonians 2:10-12 (King James Version) 10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. HAVE YOU THOUGHT OF THE MEANING OF THESE WORDS.  PONDER THESE THOUGHTS. James

Rev 22:11 Let him who does wrong continue to do wrong; let him who is vile continue to be vile; let him who does right continue to do right; and let him who is holy continue to be holy.”

[Ed J]

Quote (2 James 3:16 @ April 06 2010,07:34)

Quote (Ed J @ April 06 2010,07:22) Quote (2 James 3:16 @ April 06 2010,05:53) How many Gods do you believe there are. (1) Father? (2) Son? (3) Holy Spirit? Are there one, two, or three? I also believe that which is written, not man-made teachings.   Hi James, 1Cor.8:5-6 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)                  But to us there is but “ONE” “God, the Father”, of whom are all things, and we in him… Do you really believe what is written?              Click Here AND Here Witnessing to the world in behalf of… (Psalm 45:17) יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm! Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org I believe what is written What is the fathers name Who is Jesus and is he God or not God James

HI James,

Since it was too difficult for you to click on the link I provided, here it is…
Isn't it funny how some people keep arguing over the same garbage
    over and over and over again and again and again.

First: [יהוה] YÄ-hä-vā translates directly into English as YHVH. (AKJV Bible: JEHOVAH)
Secondly: [יהשוע] YÄ-shü-ă translates directly into English as Joshua. (AKJV Bible: Jesus)

[אדני] Âdônây in Hebrew means: “Lord” or “Owner” and is akin to
[Κύριος] kü-rē-ŏs in Greek meaning “The Same”: “Lord” or “Owner”

“YOU” CANNOT argue with this “Bible Truth”! (LORD: means Owner)
I will orchestrate my explanation around the term “Owner”.
The AKJV Bible uses: Lord for [יהשוע] and LORD for [יהוה].

The names have been changed to protect the innocent! (Acts.18:15)
In the red corner it's “The Trinitarians” VERSUS “The non-Trinitarians”
in the blue corner: in a nonsensical useless battle over word structures.
   
This nonsensical fight is merely over word structures like master, king, Lord, Creator and God.
I will illustrate just how ridiculous their fight is: it's like the Abbot and Costello skit: who's on first!
I will illustrate my point using the term “Owner”, because this word adds clarity that the others lack.

The Trinitarians say: Jesus is “The Owner”.
The non-Trinitarians reply: Jesus is NOT “The Owner”, Jesus' Father is “The Owner”!

              The Same issue: A Closer Examination

Technically Jesus is: “owner” but NOT “THE OWNER”!
This can be clearly seen and understood using the word “Owner”!

Jehovah is “The Owner” and Jesus is The Son of “The Owner”.
Jehovah CANNOT DIE, so Jehovah will ALWAYS remain “The Owner”!
A Son can 'only' become become fully “The Owner” if the Parent dies,
which in JEHOVAH's case cannot happen; because GOD CANNOT DIE!

Now Change “The Word“, (Ha Ha Ha, ha ha ha) GET IT; That's exactly what both sides are doing!
They change “THE WORD” with useless substitutes like [†] master, King, Lord, Creator and God.
In this matter “The Word”(HolySpirit) is clear! 1Thess.4:8 He therefore that despiseth,
Here despiseth not man, but “GOD“, who hath also given unto us HIS HOLY SPIRIT.

Witnessing to the world in behalf of…
יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm! (Psalm 45:17)
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (2 James 3:16 @ April 06 2010,07:34)

Quote (Ed J @ April 06 2010,07:22) Quote (2 James 3:16 @ April 06 2010,05:53) How many Gods do you believe there are. (1) Father? (2) Son? (3) Holy Spirit? Are there one, two, or three? I also believe that which is written, not man-made teachings.   Hi James, 1Cor.8:5-6 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)                  But to us there is but “ONE” “God, the Father”, of whom are all things, and we in him… Do you really believe what is written?              Click Here AND Here Witnessing to the world in behalf of… (Psalm 45:17) יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm! Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org I believe what is written What is the fathers name Who is Jesus and is he God or not God James

Hi James,

Though “Jesus is Lord”=151, he in NO WAY replaces his father as KING OF KINGS and LORD OF LORDS! (Rev.19:11-16)

Psalm 10:16 “THE LORD” is King for ever and ever: the heathen are perished out of his land.
Psalm 20:10 The LORD(YHVH) sitteth upon the flood; yea, “THE LORD” sitteth King for ever.
If “The King” DOES NOT DIE, “The Prince”(Jesus) CANNOT take the Crown as Heir to the Crown!
Rev.1:5: And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness,
and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth.
Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father;
to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Further PROOF…

Heb.13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
John 6:15 When Jesus therefore perceived that they
would come and take him by force, to make him a king,
he departed again into a mountain himself alone.

The systems of religion and traditions of men communicate
distortions of truth, confusion of mind, and distractions of spirit.

            HolySpirit is “GOD:The Father” of Jesus Christ

Jn:14:28: Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice,
because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
Jn:10:29: My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all;
and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. Click Here

Witnessing to the world in behalf of…
117=יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD)YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm! (Psalm 45:17)
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[NickHassan]

Hi ED,
King Jesus rode into Jerusalem on a donkey.
He will return to rule from the throne of his father David.
Of course his God will be in heaven and yet in him as His Spirit

[terraricca]

Quote (Ed J @ April 06 2010,11:06)

Quote (2 James 3:16 @ April 06 2010,07:34) Quote (Ed J @ April 06 2010,07:22) Quote (2 James 3:16 @ April 06 2010,05:53) How many Gods do you believe there are. (1) Father? (2) Son? (3) Holy Spirit? Are there one, two, or three? I also believe that which is written, not man-made teachings.   Hi James, 1Cor.8:5-6 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)                  But to us there is but “ONE” “God, the Father”, of whom are all things, and we in him… Do you really believe what is written?              Click Here AND Here Witnessing to the world in behalf of… (Psalm 45:17) יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm! Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org I believe what is written What is the fathers name Who is Jesus and is he God or not God James HI James, Since it was too difficult for you to click on the link I provided, here it is… Isn't it funny how some people keep arguing over the same garbage     over and over and over again and again and again. First: [יהוה] YÄ-hä-vā translates directly into English as YHVH. (AKJV Bible: JEHOVAH) Secondly: [יהשוע] YÄ-shü-ă translates directly into English as Joshua. (AKJV Bible: Jesus) [אדני] Âdônây in Hebrew means: “Lord” or “Owner” and is akin to [Κύριος] kü-rē-ŏs in Greek meaning “The Same”: “Lord” or “Owner” “YOU” CANNOT argue with this “Bible Truth”! (LORD: means Owner) I will orchestrate my explanation around the term “Owner”. The AKJV Bible uses: Lord for [יהשוע] and LORD for [יהוה]. The names have been changed to protect the innocent! (Acts.18:15) In the red corner it's “The Trinitarians” VERSUS “The non-Trinitarians” in the blue corner: in a nonsensical useless battle over word structures.     This nonsensical fight is merely over word structures like master, king, Lord, Creator and God. I will illustrate just how ridiculous their fight is: it's like the Abbot and Costello skit: who's on first! I will illustrate my point using the term “Owner”, because this word adds clarity that the others lack. The Trinitarians say: Jesus is “The Owner”. The non-Trinitarians reply: Jesus is NOT “The Owner”, Jesus' Father is “The Owner”!               The Same issue: A Closer Examination Technically Jesus is: “owner” but NOT “THE OWNER”! This can be clearly seen and understood using the word “Owner”! Jehovah is “The Owner” and Jesus is The Son of “The Owner”. Jehovah CANNOT DIE, so Jehovah will ALWAYS remain “The Owner”! A Son can 'only' become become fully “The Owner” if the Parent dies, which in JEHOVAH's case cannot happen; because GOD CANNOT DIE! Now Change “The Word“, (Ha Ha Ha, ha ha ha) GET IT; That's exactly what both sides are doing! They change “THE WORD” with useless substitutes like [†] master, King, Lord, Creator and God. In this matter “The Word”(HolySpirit) is clear! 1Thess.4:8 He therefore that despiseth, Here despiseth not man, but “GOD“, who hath also given unto us HIS HOLY SPIRIT. Witnessing to the world in behalf of… יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm! (Psalm 45:17) Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

edj

God the father as given all works to Christ so that wen it is done Christ will repport to him ;1Co 15:27 Scripture says that God “has put everything under his control.” (Psalm 8:6) It says that “everything” has been put under him. But it is clear that this does not include God himself, who puts everything under Christ.
1Co 15:28 When he has done that, the Son also will be under God’s rule. God puts everything under the Son. In that way, God will be all in all.

the works of man to day shows works not well done;Ps 8:1 LORD, our Lord,
how majestic is your name in the whole earth!
You have made your glory
higher than the heavens.
Ps 8:2 You have made sure that children
and infants praise you.
You have done it because of your enemies.
You have done it to put a stop to their talk.
Ps 8:3 I think about the heavens.
I think about what your fingers have created.
I think about the moon and stars
that you have set in place.
Ps 8:4 What is a human being that you think about him?
What is a son of man that you take care of him?
Ps 8:5 You made him a little lower than the heavenly beings.
You placed on him a crown of glory and honor.
Ps 8:6 You made human beings the rulers over all that your hands have created.
You put everything under their control.
Ps 8:7 They rule over all flocks and herds
and over the wild animals.
Ps 8:8 They rule over the birds of the air
and over the fish in the ocean.
They rule over everything that swims in the oceans.
Ps 8:9 LORD, our Lord,
how majestic is your name in the whole earth!

[NickHassan]

Hi,
Jammin has brought up this subject.

[NickHassan]

Hi,
The Word was God.
But God is more than the Word.
God is greater than His appointed Lord Jesus Christ.

[NickHassan]

Hi,
From wikipedia
“The Oneness doctrine of God[edit] Characteristics of GodOneness theology specifically maintains that God is absolutely and indivisibly one.[4][5] It equally proclaims that God is not made of a physical body, but is an invisible spirit that can only be seen in theophanies (such as the burning bush) that he creates or manifests, or in the person of the incarnate Jesus Christ. In the person of Jesus, one sees the last, best and the complete theophany of God (Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.)(Colossians 1:15).

Oneness Pentecostalism rejects all concepts of a subordination, duality, trinity, pantheon, co-equality, co-eternity, or other versions of the Godhead that assert plural gods, plural beings, divine “persons”, individuals, or multiple centers of consciousness within that Godhead. It equally denies all concepts of Jesus as anything other than fully God and fully man, together with all teachings that assert that he was merely a “good man,” high priest or prophet, rather than God himself. Oneness doctrine declares that Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God, but that this happened only when he was born from Mary on Earth. It rejects the view that any person can “obtain” the status of God whether by works or by grace, maintaining that Jesus Christ did not “obtain” his status, but rather that he is the one, eternal God himself manifested in the flesh according to the Oneness Pentecostal interpretation of 1 Timothy 3:16.

Oneness Pentecostals reject the Trinity doctrine as an extra-Biblical invention and distortion, which dilutes true Biblical Monotheism, and also, in a sense, limits God. Oneness believers say that God can operate using an unlimited number of faces or modes, not just three.

Oneness Pentecostals believe that Trinitarian doctrine is a “tradition of men” and neither scriptural nor a teaching of God, and cite the absence of the word “Trinity” from the Bible as one evidence of this. They generally believe the doctrine is an invention of the fourth-century Council of Nicea, and later councils, which made it orthodox. The Oneness position on the Trinity places them at odds with the members of most other Christian churches, some of whom have accused Oneness Pentecostals of being Modalists and derided them as “cultists”.[6]

[edit] Father, Son and Holy SpiritOneness teaching asserts that God is a singular spirit who is one person, not three divine persons, individuals or minds. “Father”, “Son” and “Holy Spirit” are merely titles reflecting the different personal manifestations of the One True God in the universe. When Oneness believers speak of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, they see these as three personal manifestations of one being, one personal God:

The Father
The title of God in parental relationship.
The Son of God
Oneness believers consider that God was incarnate in human flesh as Jesus of Nazareth.[2] They use the biblical term “Son of God” rather than the non-biblical “God the Son”. “Son” refers to either the humanity and the deity of Jesus together, or to the humanity alone, but never to the deity alone.[7]
The Holy Spirit
The title of God in activity as Spirit.
Oneness teachers often quote a phrase used by early pioneers of the movement—”God was manifested as the Father in creation, the Son in redemption, and the Holy Ghost in emanation.”

Oneness theology sees that when the one personal and omnipresent God manifests or reveals Himself it is in a personal way. Oneness theology sees the Father, Son and Holy Spirit as one transcendent, personal, omnipresent God manifesting Himself in three personal and distinct ways or forms to redeem and sanctify sinful and lost humanity, and also that all the fullness of the deity resides fully in the person of Christ. (Col. 2:1-10)

The Father and the Holy Spirit are one and the same person, according to Oneness theology. They teach that the “Holy Spirit” is just another name for God the Father.[8][9] These two titles (as well as others) do not reflect separate “persons” within the Godhead, but rather two different ways in which the one God reveals himself to his creatures. Thus, the Old Testament speaks of “The Lord God and his Spirit” in Isaiah 48:16, but this does not indicate two “persons” according to Oneness theology. Rather, “The Lord” indicates God in all of His glory and transcendence, while “his Spirit” refers to His own Spirit that moved upon and spoke to the prophet. This does not imply two “persons” any more than the numerous scriptural references to a man and his spirit or soul (such as in Luke 12:19) imply two “persons” existing within one body.[10]

In contrast, says Oneness teaching, the Son did not exist (in any substantial sense) prior to the incarnation of Jesus of Nazareth except in the foreknowledge of God. The humanity of Jesus did not exist before the incarnation. Although Jesus (i.e. the Spirit of Jesus) preexisted in His Deity as eternal God.[11]

Oneness Pentecostals believe that Jesus was “Son” only when he became flesh on earth, but was the Father prior to his being made human. They refer to the Father as the “Spirit” and the Son as the “Flesh”. But they believe that Jesus and the Father are one essential Person, though operating as different modes.

As Jesus, God took human flesh at a precise moment in time, while remaining fully and eternally God: “for in Him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily”. Thus the Father is not the Son (this distinction is crucial), just like “Spirit” is not “Flesh”, but rather, the Father is in the Son in a unique sense, as the fullness of His divinity (Colossians 2:9). Oneness theology does not claim to teach (as some falsely accuse) that the Father is actually the Son, but rather God is both Father and Son; the Father is in the Son (the Flesh) in a special sense (God in Christ).[12] Oneness doctrine views Isaiah 9:6 as prophesying that the Son shall be the “The mighty God” and “The everlasting Father”. This divinity within Jesus was also the Holy Spirit, according to Oneness teaching, as the Father and Holy Spirit are one and the same. Oneness theology maintains that LORD and Jesus refer to the same God, who is also known as Jehovah to some modern-day Christians.

[edit] ScriptureOneness Pentecostalism subscribes to the common Protestant doctrine of Sola Scriptura. They view the Bible as the inspired Word of God, and as absolutely inerrant in its contents (though not necessarily in every translation). They specifically reject the conclusions of church councils such as the Council of Nicea and the Nicene Creed. They believe that mainstream Trinitarian Christians have been misled by long-held and unchallenged “traditions of men”.[13]

[edit] The WordSome Oneness teachers, such as Irvin Baxter, Jr., believe that “the Word” in John 1:1 was the invisible God choosing to manifest or express himself to his creatures: first the angels, then man. Before the creation of the universe (seen and unseen), God alone existed in eternity; he had no need to manifest or express himself, as there was no one else to manifest or express himself to. However, once the angels and later man had been created, the immaterial and uncircumscribable God manifested himself in an angelic form that his creatures could relate to. This form–“the Word”, in Oneness teaching—later took on human flesh as Jesus of Nazareth.[14] Thus, the Word was never a second person in the Godhead, but rather the one God manifesting himself in a form his creation could comprehend. However, with his incarnation, God took on “the seed of Abraham”;[15] this was something unique, as he had never taken on “the nature of angels” while previously manifesting himself as “the Word”. Hence, Jesus' incarnation is a singular event, unlike anything God has ever done prior to it or ever will do again.

Although the Oneness belief in the union of the divine and human into one person in Christ is similar to the Chalcedonian formula, Chalcedonians
disagree sharply with them over their opposition to Trinitarian dogma. Chalcedonians see Jesus Christ as a single person uniting “God the Son” (a being whose existence is denied in Oneness theology)[citation needed], the eternal second person of the traditional Trinity, with human nature. Oneness believers, on the other hand, see Jesus as one single person uniting the one God himself with human nature to form “the Son of God”. They insist that their conception of the Godhead is true to early Christianity's strict monotheism, contrasting their views not only with Trinitarianism, but equally with the Arianism espoused by the Latter-day Saints (who believe that Christ was a separate “god” from the Father and the Spirit) and Jehovah's Witnesses (who see him as a lesser deity than his Father). Oneness theology is similar to historical Modalism or Sabellianism, although it cannot be exactly characterized as such.[16]

[edit] The name of JesusOneness teaching maintains that God revealed himself as Jesus Christ,[17] and is based primarily on “the saving Name” of Jesus Christ and recognition of Jesus as the revealed, supreme, and one true name of God.[18] According to Oneness theology, all of the names and titles of God belong to Jesus, since all the fullness of God dwells bodily in him.

Critics of Oneness theology commonly refer to its adherents as “Jesus Only”, implying that they deny the existence of the Father and Holy Spirit.[2] Most Oneness Pentecostals consider that term to be pejorative, and a misrepresentation of their true beliefs on the issue[citation needed]. Oneness believers insist that while they do indeed believe in baptism in the name of Jesus Christ, to describe them as “Jesus Only Pentecostals” implies a denial of the Father and Holy Spirit—a contention they vehemently reject.

[edit] Accusations of Modalism and ArianismOneness believers are often accused of being Monistic or Modalistic.[19] They have also occasionally been accused of Arianism, usually by isolated individuals rather than church organizations.[20] While Oneness theologian Dr. David Bernard indicates that Modalistic Monarchianism and Oneness are essentially the same (so long as one does not understand Modalism to be the same as Patripassianism),[16] he vehemently denies any connection to Arianism in Oneness teaching.[21]

[edit] Oneness SoteriologyIn common with most Protestant denominations, Oneness Pentecostal soteriology maintains that all people are born with a sinful nature, and sin at a young age, and remain “lost” without hope of salvation, unless they embrace the Gospel; that Jesus Christ made a complete atonement for the sins of all people, which is the sole means of man's redemption; and that salvation comes solely by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.[1][22] Oneness doctrine also teaches that faith without obedience is not faith, and that to gain salvation, a person must meet certain requirements which they consider to be set forth in the New Testament.[23][24] These requirements are:

repentance
water baptism in Jesus' name;
the baptism in the Holy Spirit with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.[1]
Most Oneness Pentecostals believe that scripture records these acts of faith as commanded by God for salvation, and therefore insist that the lack of any one of them would result in a person not being saved.(John 3:1-8)[25]

[edit] Grace and FaithOneness Pentecostals maintain that no good works or obedience to law can save anyone, apart from God's grace. Furthermore, salvation comes solely through faith in Jesus Christ; there is no salvation through any name or work other than his. Oneness teaching rejects interpretations that hold that salvation is given automatically to the “elect”; all men are called to salvation, and “whosoever will, may come”.[26]

While salvation is indeed a gift in Oneness belief, it must be received.[3] This requires one to fulfill all conditions mandated by the giver (God); without doing so, one cannot receive the gift and remains eternally lost. The first mandate is true faith in Jesus Christ, demonstrated by obedience to God's commands, and a determination to submit to his will in every aspect of one's life. Oneness adherents reject the notion that one may be saved through what they call “mental faith”: mere belief in Christ, without life-changing repentance or obedience. Thus they emphatically reject the idea that one is saved through praying a Sinner's Prayer, rather than the inclusion of being baptized in water and receiving the Holy Spirit with accompanying evidence of the infilling of God's Spirit. Oneness Pentecostals have no issue with the Sinner's Prayer itself, but deny that it alone represents “saving faith”; the Bible, accordingly mandated repentance, baptism by water and spirit with receipt of the Holy Spirit as the manifestation of the spirit part of the rebirth experience, this represents the manifestations of true, godly faith. Thus, one who refuses these other things has not complied with the biblical conditions for salvation, even if they do believe in Christ. According to these believers, Jesus and the Apostles taught that the New Birth experience includes repentance (the true Sinner's Prayer), and baptism in both water and God's Spirit.[27]

[edit] RepentanceOneness Pentecostals maintain that salvation is not possible without repentance. One must feel a “godly sorrow” for sin, confess one's sins to God (confession to another human being, such as a pastor, is deemed insufficient and unnecessary), ask him for forgiveness, and consciously determine to abstain from sinning again in the future.

[edit] BaptismThe majority of Oneness Pentecostals believe that baptism is essential to salvation. A small minority believe that baptism is symbolic in nature. Since they believe that one must have faith and repent before being baptized, baptisms of infants or by compulsion are deemed unacceptable.[citation needed]

Oneness Pentecostal theology maintains the literal definition of baptism as being complete immersion in water. They believe that other modes either have no biblical basis or are based upon inexact Old Testament rituals, and that their mode is the only one described in the New Testament. This contradicts sprinkling, pouring or head-only immersion, and also contradicts the use of any substance other than water for baptism.[citation needed]

[edit] The Oneness baptismal formulaMain article: Jesus' Name doctrine
Oneness believers believe that for water baptism to be valid, one must be baptized in the name of Jesus, rather than the mainstream baptismal formula in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. This follows the examples found in the Book of Acts. “Jesus-Name” is a description used to refer to Oneness Pentecostals and their baptismal beliefs.[28]

This conviction is mainly centered around the baptismal formula mandated in Acts 2:38: “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost”. Oneness Pentecostals insist that there are no New Testament references to baptism by any other formula—save in Matthew 28:19 which most hold to be simply another reference to Jesus-name baptism.[29] Although Matthew 28:19 seems to mandate a Trinitarian formula for baptism, Oneness theology avows that the “name” in that verse is actually singular and refers to Jesus, whose name they believe to be that of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.[30] Oneness believers insist that all of the Bible's texts on the subject must be in full agreement with each other; thus, they say that either the Apostles disobeyed the command they had been given in Matthew 28:19 or they correctly fulfilled it by using the name of Jesus Christ.[31]

Some Oneness believers consider that the text of Matthew 28:19 is not original, quoting the early Church historian Eusebius, who referred to this passage at least eighteen times in his works. Eusebius' text reads: “go and make disc
iples of all nations in my name, teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I commanded you.” However, most Oneness believers do believe that Matthew 28:19 is authentic and original due to divine providence and preservation of the Scriptures.[32][33] Other Church Fathers are alleged to have not known of any triune formula in that text.[32] The latter believe that Jesus is the name correctly applied to God as a whole: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit,[34] and that to baptize in the name of Jesus therefore fulfills the requirement of Matthew 28:19.

Oneness Pentecostals assert that of the five mentions of baptism in the Book of Acts, all were performed in the name of Jesus Christ,[35] and that no Trinitarian formula is ever referred to therein.[36] In addition, 1 Corinthians 1:13 is taken by Oneness Pentecostals to indicate baptism in Jesus' name, as well.[37] Hence, Oneness believers claim that this constitutes proof that the “Jesus-name” formula was the original one, and that the Trinitarian invocation was erroneously substituted for it later.[38] The Catholic Encyclopedia admits some theologians have considered in the past that the apostles baptized in the name of Christ only.[39]

[edit] The Baptism of the Holy SpiritOneness Pentecostals believe that the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is a free gift, commanded for all.[40] The Holy Spirit is defined in Pentecostal doctrine as the Spirit of God (also known as the Spirit of Christ, Rom 8:9) dwelling within a person. It is further explained as the power of God to edify (build up) them, help them abstain from sin, and anoint them with power to exercise the Gifts of the Spirit for edification of the church by the Will of God. This differs substantially from the incarnation of God as Jesus Christ, for the Incarnation involved “the fullness of the Godhead” Col 2:9 uniting with human flesh, inseparably linking the deity and man to create the man, Christ Jesus. Believers, on the other hand, can only receive a portion of the Spirit and are not permanently bonded with God as Jesus is. Nor, for that matter, can any believer ever become as Jesus is by nature: God and man.

The Pentecostal doctrine of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is most simply explained as:

God dwelling within an individual,
God communing with an individual, and
God working through that individual.
Oneness doctrine maintains the Holy Spirit is the title of the one God in action, hence they maintain that the Holy Spirit within any individual is nothing more or less than God Himself in action, through and indwelling that individual.

Pentecostals, both Oneness and Trinitarian, maintain that the Holy Spirit experience denotes the genuine Christian Church, and that he carries with him power for the believer to accomplish God's will. As do most Pentecostals, Oneness believers maintain that the initial sign of the infilling Holy Spirit is speaking in tongues, and that the New Testament mandates this as a minimal requirement. They equally recognize that speaking in tongues is a sign to unbelievers of the Holy Spirit's power, and is to be actively sought after and utilized, most especially in prayer. However, this initial gift of the Holy Spirit is seen as distinct from the “gift of tongues and interpretation” mentioned in 1 Corinthians 12:10, which is given to selected spirit-filled believers as the Holy Spirit desires.[41] Unlike most Trinitarian Pentecostals, Oneness adherents assert that receipt of the Holy Spirit is necessary for salvation.[42]

[edit] Practices[edit] WorshipIn common with other Pentecostals, Oneness believers are known for their charismatic style of worship. They believe that the spiritual gifts found in the New Testament are still active in the church; hence, services are often spontaneous, being punctuated at times with acts of speaking in tongues, interpretation of tongues, prophetic messages, and the laying on of hands for the purposes of healing. Oneness believers, like all Pentecostals, are characterized by their practice of speaking in other tongues. In such ecstatic experiences a Oneness believer may vocalize fluent unintelligible utterances (glossolalia), or articulate an allegedly natural language previously unknown to them (xenoglossy).

Some Oneness Pentecostals practice foot washing, often in conjunction with their celebration of Holy Communion, as Jesus Christ did with his disciples at the Last Supper.

[edit] Holiness standardsOneness Pentecostals believe that a Christian's lifestyle should be characterized by holiness.[1] This holiness begins at baptism, when the blood of Christ washes away all sin and a person stands before God truly holy for the first time in his or her life. Subsequent to this act, Oneness believers hold that separation from the world in both practical and moral areas is essential to spiritual life.[43] Moral or inward holiness consists of righteous living, guided and powered by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Practical or outward holiness for Oneness believers involves certain “holiness standards” that dictate, among other things, modest apparel and gender distinction. Some Oneness organizations, considering current social trends in fashion and dress to be immoral, have established “dress codes” for their members. These guidelines are similar to those used by all Pentecostal denominations for much of the first half of the 20th century.[1] Generally, women wear long sleeves & skirts are expected not to wear pants, makeup, jewellery or to cut their hair; men are enjoined to be clean-shaven, short-haired,no jewellery and are expected to wear long sleeve shirts, long-legged pants, as opposed to shorts.[44] Oneness Pentecostals believe wholeheartedly in dressing modestly (with restraints and limits) and NOT moderately which by definition means “not in excess”. They believe that there is a distinct deference in Modesty (being aware of one's limitations, or shunning indecency,) and Moderation (avoiding excesses or extremes while suggesting more than usual). Modesty carries the connotation of something being off-limits. They justify this belief by using the Biblical scripture in 1 Timothy 2:9 “In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel…” Additionally, many Oneness organizations proscribe their members from watching secular movies or television. Many of these views on “standards” have roots in the larger Holiness movement. However, the precise degree to which these standards are enforced varies from church to church and even from individual to individual within the movement.

Due to the comparative strictness of their “standards”, Oneness Pentecostals are ofttimes accused of “legalism” by other Christians.[45] Oneness believers respond by saying that holiness is commanded by God,[46] and that it follows salvation, rather than causes it.[43] “Holiness living”, for Oneness Pentecostals, proceeds from love rather than duty, and is motivated by the holy nature inparted by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.[43] While the Christian life is indeed one of liberty from rules and laws, that liberty does not negate one's responsibility to follow scriptural teachings on moral issues,[43] many of which were established by the Apostles themselves.[47]

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