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Law and Grace?
The world thinks that Yahweh’s laws were done away with and that we now live under the age of grace alone.
Well logically speaking, if this is true, then none of the patriarchs would have ever received any grace, since after all they were under, and obedient to the Laws; the same ones that Yahweh established.
Then would it not be logical to assume then that we should not find anything in the O.T. about the concept of grace?
After all, as the reasoning goes, “”we are of the New Testament because when Yahshua died, he did away with the Laws.””
This would make sense if that were true; that only the New Testament would support such a notion, however, we discover that many of the patriarchs, the same ones that kept and received the law had in fact been under grace themselves. Let’s read a few of the verses that contradicts this worldly teachings.
(Gen 6:7-8) …But Noah found grace in the eyes of Yahweh, and he was a preacher of righteousness ( 2 Peter 2:5).
What is righteousness according to scriptures?
“” All thy Commandments are righteousness.””( Psalms 119:172), so we know now exactly what Noah preached as righteousness.
(Gen. 19:18-19 ) tells us that Lot also received grace, and that he also was called righteous ( 2 Peter 2:8) and that he vexed his soul by living among them that done un-lawful deeds.
(Exodus 34:8-9) Moses knew and understood the concept of ” Grace “too.
“”And Moses made haste, and bowed his head toward the earth, and worshipped. And he said, if now I have found Grace in thy sight, O Yahweh, let my (All Mighty One) I pray thee, go among us; for (we are) a stiff-necked people; pardon our iniquity( lawlessness) and our sin, and take us for thine inheritance. “”
Notice that Moses didn’t say that he did not have to obey the laws since he understood that he was under grace. What he did say is that he wanted to receive grace because the people were stiff-necked/disobedient to Yahweh’s Laws!
The word ” Grace “parallels with the word ” Mercy “, and notice what Yahweh Himself says about who can receive His MERCY or GRACE.
(Exod. 20:6 )“And showing MERCY unto thousand of them that love me, and keep my commandments.”
Notice that those that love Him keep his Commandments and in return they receive mercy or grace.
This worlds Babylonian system of religion confuses this by saying that Yahshua did away with the law. They indicate that Yahshua and Yahweh see things differently and that they have different ideas regarding the laws set forth by Yahweh the Father. That is not the case according to the Scriptures. The Scriptures indicate that they are very much alike and in perfect agreement.
(John 10:27-30); keep in mind what Yahshua is saying here.
“”My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish; neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.I and my Father are one.
Here Yahshua is saying that He and His Father are in total agreement. The word ” ONE “ means total agreement, not that they are the same Person.
And in (John 15:10)If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in His love.
How often have you heard, “”Yahshua fulfilled all of those old laws because He knew that I couldn’t keep them?””
With regards to not being able to keep Yahweh’s word and laws, we find that it is not the case. (Luke 1:5-6 )the scriptures say the following about Zachariyah, the Father of John the Baptist….
“”There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judea, a certain priest named Zachariyah, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
And they were both righteous before Elohim, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of Yahweh blameless.
Its a strange thing this world's religious system will tell you the exact opposite what the scriptures really say.
For example they will also say “” That the Old Testament Scriptures is no longer for us today, and that they are done away.”” Unquote.
Is that really true too?
The word ” Scriptures “ is used throughout the N.T., and when you find this word “Scriptures “, in certain verses, these verses will also tell you the exact opposite from what modern religious denominations will tell you.
Notice a few places what it really says when you find this word ” Scriptures ” .
( Luke 24:27) “”And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.””
Also, ( Luke 24:44-45) “”And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
45. Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures.””
And here are some very important ones for you to notice.
“” Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me( Messiah).””( John 5:39).
“” And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Messiah Yahshua.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of El ( Yah), and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:That the man of El ( Yah) may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.( 2 Tim.3:15-17).
Notice that the Scriptures are able to make one wise unto salvation.
Now what scriptures did the Desciples have? Did they say wait, let me see what Matthew, Mark, or the others say?
Its very plain to see, that you cannot have Yahweh's Grace or Mercy , without faith enough to also obey Him, as that was the problem with the ancient Israelites( Heb. Chapters 3 and 4 ).
Now I realize modern Religious Teachers will not like being told by Scriptures that faith without obedience to Yahweh is dead faith, and Yah only gives His True Spirit to them that obey Him( Acts 5:32).
Eliyah C.
Quote (Eliyah @ Oct. 10 2005,23:06) Law and Grace? The world thinks that Yahweh’s laws were done away with and that we now live under the age of grace alone.
Well logically speaking, if this is true, then none of the patriarchs would have ever received any grace, since after all they were under, and obedient to the Laws; the same ones that Yahweh established.
Then would it not be logical to assume then that we should not find anything in the O.T. about the concept of grace?
After all, as the reasoning goes, “”we are of the New Testament because when Yahshua died, he did away with the Laws.””
This would make sense if that were true; that only the New Testament would support such a notion, however, we discover that many of the patriarchs, the same ones that kept and received the law had in fact been under grace themselves. Let’s read a few of the verses that contradicts this worldly teachings.
(Gen 6:7-8) …But Noah found grace in the eyes of Yahweh, and he was a preacher of righteousness ( 2 Peter 2:5).
What is righteousness according to scriptures?
“” All thy Commandments are righteousness.””( Psalms 119:172), so we know now exactly what Noah preached as righteousness.
(Gen. 19:18-19 ) tells us that Lot also received grace, and that he also was called righteous ( 2 Peter 2:8) and that he vexed his soul by living among them that done un-lawful deeds.
(Exodus 34:8-9) Moses knew and understood the concept of ” Grace “too.
“”And Moses made haste, and bowed his head toward the earth, and worshipped. And he said, if now I have found Grace in thy sight, O Yahweh, let my (All Mighty One) I pray thee, go among us; for (we are) a stiff-necked people; pardon our iniquity( lawlessness) and our sin, and take us for thine inheritance. “”
Notice that Moses didn’t say that he did not have to obey the laws since he understood that he was under grace. What he did say is that he wanted to receive grace because the people were stiff-necked/disobedient to Yahweh’s Laws!
The word ” Grace “parallels with the word ” Mercy “, and notice what Yahweh Himself says about who can receive His MERCY or GRACE.
(Exod. 20:6 )“And showing MERCY unto thousand of them that love me, and keep my commandments.”
Notice that those that love Him keep his Commandments and in return they receive mercy or grace.
This worlds Babylonian system of religion confuses this by saying that Yahshua did away with the law. They indicate that Yahshua and Yahweh see things differently and that they have different ideas regarding the laws set forth by Yahweh the Father. That is not the case according to the Scriptures. The Scriptures indicate that they are very much alike and in perfect agreement.
(John 10:27-30); keep in mind what Yahshua is saying here.
“”My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish; neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.I and my Father are one.
Here Yahshua is saying that He and His Father are in total agreement. The word ” ONE “ means total agreement, not that they are the same Person.
And in (John 15:10)If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in His love.
How often have you heard, “”Yahshua fulfilled all of those old laws because He knew that I couldn’t keep them?””
With regards to not being able to keep Yahweh’s word and laws, we find that it is not the case. (Luke 1:5-6 )the scriptures say the following about Zachariyah, the Father of John the Baptist….
“”There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judea, a certain priest named Zachariyah, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
And they were both righteous before Elohim, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of Yahweh blameless.
Its a strange thing this world's religious system will tell you the exact opposite what the scriptures really say.
For example they will also say “” That the Old Testament Scriptures is no longer for us today, and that they are done away.”” Unquote.
Is that really true too?
The word ” Scriptures “ is used throughout the N.T., and when you find this word “Scriptures “, in certain verses, these verses will also tell you the exact opposite from what modern religious denominations will tell you.
Notice a few places what it really says when you find this word ” Scriptures ” .
( Luke 24:27) “”And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.””
Also, ( Luke 24:44-45) “”And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
45. Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures.””
And here are some very important ones for you to notice.
“” Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me( Messiah).””( John 5:39).
“” And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Messiah Yahshua.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of El ( Yah), and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:That the man of El ( Yah) may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.( 2 Tim.3:15-17).
Notice that the Scriptures are able to make one wise unto salvation.
Now what scriptures did the Desciples have? Did they say wait, let me see what Matthew, Mark, or the others say?
Its very plain to see, that you cannot have Yahweh's Grace or Mercy , without faith enough to also obey Him, as that was the problem with the ancient Israelites( Heb. Chapters 3 and 4 ).
Now I realize modern Religious Teachers will not like being told by Scriptures that faith without obedience to Yahweh is dead faith, and Yah only gives His True Spirit to them that obey Him( Acts 5:32).
Eliyah C.
Hi eliyah,
Did Noah have the Law?Nick,
sin is lawlessness( 1 John 3:4), and all the Ancients knew what is sin really is such as the example of Abimelech( Gen.20:9), when he asked Abraham What have you done to us? That thou have brought on me and my Kingdom A GREAT SIN.
Abimelech KNEW it was SIN to commit Adultry with another man's wife, also ( compare with Paul's statement in Rom.7:7) concerning the purpose of the Law is to tell us what sin really is.
We also know that Adam and Eve sinned / -ie committed lawlessness, or transgressed Yah's Commandments( 1 John 3:4), in the Garden in ( Gen.).
The Ancients understood that sin is transgressing Yah's Commandments, the same as the Desciple John wrote( 1 John 3:4).
Now I realize that you want understand this, however, just because the Commandments were only written down by Moses does not mean the Ancients did not know what sin / or committing lawlessness to Yah's Commandments really was, for they certainly did know.
Now, did not those in Moses's Time also have the Gospel preached to them( Heb.4:2) ?
Hi,
So Abraham and Noah were under conscience and not Law as the Law had not been given and where there is no Law there is no sin attributed? Is that what you are saying?Nick, as I said above, you will not understand, and you never even looked up those scriptures in 2 seconds.
They most certainly were conscious of the law, because they understood what sin really was and is, as John wrote ( 1 John 3:4), and I will say, they knew that better than even modern religious people today.
Again, your mis-understanding Paul's words of….
For where no law is, there is no sin, however, we know that there is still sin in this world, and where “” there is sin, then there is a law being broken””( paraphrased).
Did Adam and Eve NOT sin ?
Yes they did sin, and where there is sin, then there is a law that was broken or transgressed, as they most certainly done in the Garden in ( Gen.).
Or, what do you think SIN REALLY IS ? See ( 1 John 3:4).
Hi ,
So since Adam ate from the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil he was under Conscience and so were his offspring till the Law was given. Death still reigned till the written Law was given to the Jews[Rom 5.14] so God still regarded conscience as Law for all[Rom 2.14-15].
We are now under the Law of The Spirit which is a conscience Law again inspired by the Spirit of God. The Spirit inspires good behaviours rather than negative rules. Now we in Christ are not under the threat of condemnation though as there is now no condemnation for them that are in Christ Jesus.Eve and Adam sinned / ie- transgressed Yah's Laws( 1 John 3:4), so death passed to the whole human race, and all have sinned/ ie-transgressed the law 1 John 3:4, and it is only through Messiah that can rectify or justify the death penality, however, if one continues in sin/ ie-transgressions and makes void the law through faith( Rom.3:31), than, that one is again back under the law's death penality for wilfully continuing in sin or transgressions, and there remains no more sacrifice for those sins or transgressions( Heb.10:26).
Why don't modern ministers preach to repent of sin today, as Peter and the other Desciples did ?
Because they teach that the law has been done away and if the law has been done away,( as they claim), then people don't have to repent of sin / ie-lawlessness( 1 John 3:4), however, Yah's grace or mercy and pardon of past sins( Rom.5) does not give one freedom to continue in sin / ie-lawlessness so that grace may abound( Rom.6:1-2).
The true Messiah never taught lawlessness as is taught in religion today, and neither did Paul nor any of the Desciples, they lived by every word of the scriptures or as is commonly called today The O.T.Scriptures, because that was the only scriptures extant, they never taught that their letters or epistles replaced or superceded the Old Scriptures as is commonly taught in traditional christianity today either.
Now what is a Person to repent of ?
Repent of sin.
And what is sin ?
Repent of trangressing the law, or repent of committing lawlessness( 1 John 3:4) to Yah's laws.
Hi eliyah,
If you have the Spirit and walk according to the Spirit you will not sin[Gal 5 16-26, 1Jn 3.6,9]and you are not under the written Law[ Gal 5.18]. However if you have the Spirit but choose not to live by the Spirit but the flesh you will not inherit the Kingdom[Gal 5.21].Those who practice lawlessness( As the man of sin or lawlessness 2 Thess.2:3-4) as is taught by modern churches today will not be in the Kingdom.
Hitherto is the end of the matter.
Hi eliyah,
Why do you pay such heed to the activities of the Whore of Babylon? Those in Christ recognise her evil follies.Because it is those who are teaching the people falsely against Yah's and Messiah's true Names and laws and leading people astray in darkness, and it is my job to expose the powers of darkness.
Quote If you and I keep to what is revealed you will find we agree about much. I could say the same thing to you Nick, however, I think your Son and I would probably agree more.
I read what you said ” I “, however, I still said what I meant, and meant what I said, and I did not misunderstand you Nick.
Hi guys,
So much water has passed under the bridge that I feel almost guilty to hearken back to the discussion of yesterday. Well, not really 😉
Quote You have the floor. Your call.
Hooray! Well, I guess I'd call faith – in the Biblical sense – a gut feeling, or an unexplained conviction. In this sense, I see faith as resting on what a person has heard and believed rather than on hard and fast “tangible” proofs.Quote So, essentially, you believe that there is some Truth in all belief systems, and none of them contain the whole Truth. Is that pretty much it? If so, tell me this: Who ultimately decides what is true in each of those religions? Who knows enough about life, death, righteousness, wickedness, justice – essentially all the underlying principles of the universe – to discern the right from the wrong in all those religions?
That person would have to be the Creator Himself, (or someone who wants to sit on the Creator's throne).
In other words, be your own god, if you must, but realize that you are placing a lot of faith in yourself. For your sake, I hope that you are right.
I don't agree that only God can discern right from wrong. Doesn't the Bible suggest that humanity has a conscience? However, I do agree that all good things come from God, and that he is the final judge.I don't see belief in God and in Jesus as a system of belief, but as a way of life. The former, I think of in terms of rules and codes of living, whereas the latter, to me, is in a motivation of faith, hope and love towards God and his creation.
Hi casiphus,
If you had been standing in the crowd at Pentecost listening to Peter what would have been your reaction?
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