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Hi c,
I have thousands of opinions. But on the matters relating to God we need to rely only on His repeated and clearly expressed facts to be able to teach.Casiphus,
Quote I hope you won't be offended by this question, but do you ever have an opinion that isn't based on one or another Bible passage? I hope that Nick want be offended either, however, I have asked myself that same question about Nick a hundred times already.
Quote Hi One Spirit and Nick, At the risk of sounding contrary:
Who do you think was the author of this passage, and what do you think it meant to them?
I ask this, because I think we have vastly different approaches to scriptural interpretation.
Casiphus,
According to the passage, the words I quoted come straight from YHWH.
Quote Deuteronomy 18:17
“And [YHWH] said to me: ‘What they have spoken is good.'Are you suggesting Moses misquoted YHWH?
Quote (Casiphus @ Oct. 06 2005,01:51) Hi One Spirit and Nick, At the risk of sounding contrary:
Who do you think was the author of this passage, and what do you think it meant to them?
I ask this, because I think we have vastly different approaches to scriptural interpretation.
Hi casiphus,
I am interested in what differences you see in scriptural interpretation and how you differ. What means do you use?Hi Nick and One Spirit,
I suppose you both agree on the Mosaic authorship of Deuteronomy (and the majority of the Torah)? If so, I presume this helps confirm a belief that the Bible is inerrant?
I don't really believe either of the above premises, so I tend to view passages such as the one quoted by OS as key insights into the beliefs of the author regarding Yahweh and his relationship with the children of Israel.
Have you ever looked into alternate theories regarding the compilation of the Old Testament?
Hi casiphus,
So to you human authorship of the bible is paramount? Surely you realise that the glorious purity, harmony and unity of the Word is amazing evidence of the work of God among men? If men alone wrote the bible then it is all a sham, a strange collection of myths, legends and philosophies we should take little interest in.
Does God exist for you and if so what evidence can you offer for that claim? Do you know the Spirit because Peter told us the Holy Spirit inspired men to write scripture?[2Peter 1.20f]Quote I suppose you both agree on the Mosaic authorship of Deuteronomy (and the majority of the Torah)? If so, I presume this helps confirm a belief that the Bible is inerrant? I don't really believe either of the above premises, so I tend to view passages such as the one quoted by OS as key insights into the beliefs of the author regarding Yahweh and his relationship with the children of Israel.
Have you ever looked into alternate theories regarding the compilation of the Old Testament?
What's your theory?
(If it has anything to do with the idea that the Torah is unreliable, then you might as well toss the whole bible into the trash can and join the new age “all is relative” spiritualist movement.)
Quote (If it has anything to do with the idea that the Torah is unreliable, then you might as well toss the whole bible into the trash can and join the new age “all is relative” spiritualist movement.) I agree ONESPIRIT.
YHWH wrote the Torah through Moses, and its reliability is certain, even Messiah Himself mentions Moses writings( See Mark 7:10; Luke 16:29-31; Luke 24:27).
So much for all other so-called theories.
Hi,
Seeing as my last post received such an overwhelming response 😉
Quote So to you human authorship of the bible is paramount? Surely you realise that the glorious purity, harmony and unity of the Word is amazing evidence of the work of God among men?
To me human authorship is a given – many battle technologies, forms of governance as well as some cities, referenced in the Torah, Joshua and the Judges, are achronistic. While I do see several general themes running throughout the different books, I don't see any significant purity, harmony, unity or evidence of God in it's very fact – though the general themes do affirm (at least to me) my own beliefs.On this note, Muslims make the same claim about the Qur'an, saying that it is the pure and final revelation of God, while all others have been corrupted. They make the claim, also, that it's eloquence and harmony are evidence of divine authorship. If God were to author a book, why should it be the Bible and not the Qur'an? It seems silly to me that the “true faith” should come down to a debate over whose scriptures are better.
Quote Does God exist for you and if so what evidence can you offer for that claim? Do you know the Spirit because Peter told us the Holy Spirit inspired men to write scripture?[2Peter 1.20f] God certainly does exist for me – but I don't believe “because the Bible tells me so”; I believe because the world around indicates to me that there are two paths, one of which leads to life (or well-being), while the other leads to destruction (or the absence of well-being), and I am pursuaded to follow the path that leads to life.
Quote What's your theory? (If it has anything to do with the idea that the Torah is unreliable, then you might as well toss the whole bible into the trash can and join the new age “all is relative” spiritualist movement.)
😉 I don't think that all is relative, I just think that we have to sift through all the sources that come our way, rather than just believe or disbelieve wholesale. Just because something contains a “kernal of truth”, or even a whole tree, does that necessarily mean it is all true?
Quote YHWH wrote the Torah through Moses, and its reliability is certain, even Messiah Himself mentions Moses writings( See Mark 7:10; Luke 16:29-31; Luke 24:27). The first two of your references are to the Law of Moses, while the third is a Jewish expression denoting the whole scriptures, so I'll pass over it. With regard to the former, while it's not a very compelling argument to defend a source using the same source, I don't see any problem in believing that the Law itself came from a Mosaic type figure (or even Moses himself), but the Torah (which has now become synonymous with the Law) is more than the parts where “Yahweh told Moses to write these words”, and stylistic variations, and repeat (though altered) passages – such as the flood stories – indicate different authors, and different dialects.
Well, I hope that has answered all your questions about my beliefs concerning the Bible.
Hi casiphus,
If you had the Holy Spirit he would have shown you how true the Word of God is and you would not be judging it in human terms perhaps?Hi Nick,
I hope you'll forgive me if I choose not to debate the infallibility of the Bible according to the argument that “the Spirit of God told me so.”
Casiphus,
You wrote:
Quote 😉 I don't think that all is relative, I just think that we have to sift through all the sources that come our way, rather than just believe or disbelieve wholesale. Just because something contains a “kernal of truth”, or even a whole tree, does that necessarily mean it is all true? So, essentially, you believe that there is some Truth in all belief systems, and none of them contain the whole Truth. Is that pretty much it?
If so, tell me this: Who ultimately decides what is true in each of those religions? Who knows enough about life, death, righteousness, wickedness, justice – essentially all the underlying principles of the universe – to discern the right from the wrong in all those religions?
That person would have to be the Creator Himself, (or someone who wants to sit on the Creator's throne).
In other words, be your own god, if you must, but realize that you are placing a lot of faith in yourself. For your sake, I hope that you are right.
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