Oil

[Shania]

Hi Is 1:18-

I have answered your questions. As I said before, I am not a debater. I already feel responsible for deviating from this forum's topic of oil. Also, again I have no problem explaining my views. I think that if you would like to discuss more, I will PM you back [whether you post here or PM me.]

The reason that I do not want to get in the habit of debating is that I feel like I would run the risk of letting pride take over and the last thing that I want to due is use God's word as a tool to win the esteem of others. Please don't misunderstand me. This is my personal decision based on my personal weakness. I am not saying that it is wrong to debate- just not for me.

I want you to know that I see you as a brother and the fact that you believe in the trinity and I don't means very little to me. I wish you all the best and I hope that we can be some encouragement to one another in our walks.

Much love,
Shania

[Is 1:18]

G'day Shania,
Sure, I respect your decision not to get into debates, its certainly not for everyone. If you don't mind though I will take you up on your offer and reply to each of your posts by PM so you might gain an understanding of why it is I believe as I do. I don't want you to think I just take these verses at face value without having analysed them. Whether you reply or not is up to you.

Blessings
Is 1:18

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Shania @ May 19 2008,15:41)

Quote (Is 1:18 @ May 18 2008,07:16) We will never (legitimately) be called “YHWH” (Zech 14:4) Zech 14:3-5 3 Then the LORD will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights in the day of battle. 4 On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south. 5 You will flee by my mountain valley, for it will extend to Azel. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come, and all the holy ones with him. NIV Jesus [Yahushua] held the Spirit of YHWH in his body. He was the exact manifestation of the Father. Everything that he did and does brings honor and esteem to the Father. Yahushua is the ambassador of YHWH. When he does anything, it is on YHWH’s behalf, and in the authority that comes from YHWH. YHWH is represented in everything that he does. Here are some other examples of YHWH fighting: Josh 23:9-11 9 “The LORD has driven out before you great and powerful nations; to this day no one has been able to withstand you. 10 One of you routs a thousand, because the LORD your God fights for you , just as he promised. 11 So be very careful to love the LORD your God. NIV It says, the LORD [YHWH] has driven out; no one has been able to withstand you {the Israelites} Does this present a problem? Is there an error? No. It is clearly understandable that YHWH fought through the people. Josh 23:3-4 3 You yourselves have seen everything the LORD your God has done to all these nations for your sake; it was the LORD your God who fought for you. NIV

Amen Shania.

[Is 1:18]

Since this post has been commented on I'll add my piece.

Quote

Zech 14:3-5 3 Then the LORD will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights in the day of battle. 4 On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south. 5 You will flee by my mountain valley, for it will extend to Azel. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come, and all the holy ones with him. NIV Jesus [Yahushua] held the Spirit of YHWH in his body.  He was the exact manifestation of the Father.  Everything that he did and does brings honor and esteem to the Father.  Yahushua is the ambassador of YHWH.  When he does anything, it is on YHWH’s behalf, and in the authority that comes from YHWH.  YHWH is represented in everything that he does.

There are many men described as being filled with the Spirit in the Bible. Other men who were described in the role of ambassadors for YHWH. Why are they never ascribed the name YHWH in the Bible? Seems strange to me that Yeshua is the sole exception. Must be something unique about Him….

Quote

Here are some other examples of YHWH fighting: Josh 23:9-11 9 “The LORD has driven out before you great and powerful nations; to this day no one has been able to withstand you. 10 One of you routs a thousand, because the LORD your God fights for you , just as he promised. 11 So be very careful to love the LORD your God. NIV It says, the LORD [YHWH] has driven out; no one has been able to withstand you {the Israelites} Does this present a problem?  Is there an error?  No.  It is clearly understandable that YHWH fought through the people.

There is a key difference between Zech 14 and the one you cited that maybe you’ve overlooked. In Josh 23:9-11 TWO identities are in view, one designated as “the LORD” and the other as “you” (i.e. Israel). So there is no confusing them. Yes YHWH used Israel as his agent, to achieve His will in this battle. I do not dispute YHWH used agents this way. And, yes YHWH claims the rightful credit as the first cause of the action. In Zechariah Ch 14 though there is only ONE identity in view, namely Yeshua, and this identity is ascribed the divine name YHWH.

Quote

Josh 23:3-4 3 You yourselves have seen everything the LORD your God has done to all these nations for your sake; it was the LORD your God who fought for you. NIV

“it was the LORD your God who fought for you”. Again, two identities in view. No one would confuse the two so clearly are they delineated.

Another point I wanted to make as this; in verses 9 and 16 (twice) of Zechariah 14 the subject, whom we agree is Yeshua, is described as “King”. Yeshua is of course many times prophesied to be the King, and one would dispute that Yeshua is a King in the direct, natural sense of the word. He is not a King in any indirectly sense. In fact in John 18:37 Yeshua explicitly confirmed it when he uttered “You are right in saying I am a king. In fact, for this reason I was born, and for this I came into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me.”. This being the case why should the designation “YHWH” not be viewed the same way? We should be consistent here should we not, and not import presuppositions into the text? To me Yeshua is “King” in a real sense, and He is likewise “YHWH” in a real sense. I think we see this validated in verses 16-17 where YHWH is “worshipped” in Jersalem. YHWH cannot be worshipped by proxy.

Fot those who are doubting that the identity in Zechariah 14 is Yehsua here is a more detailed explanation: https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….0;&#top

Blessings

[NickHassan]

Hi Is 1.18,
Where in scripture is Jesus called by the name of His Father?
He came and he worked in the name of His Father.
His Father is in him and he is in the Father.

He is forever one with God just as we are in him and in God but where is he called by his Father's name?

[NickHassan]

Hi Is 1.18,
Do not we wear the glorious garments from the household of God and wear the ring from His finger? We too in Christ carry the heavenly treasures within.

[Author]

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